buying a used tank for a first effort

[plaguebeast]

I have read 4 or 5 books on marine aquariums as well as this newsgroup and
most of the links people provide, yes, Marc, I have read your pages also,
they are probably the most informative.

For my first try at a marine tank, I am buying a 29 gallon "established"
~minireef from someone. In the tank is about 50lbs of live rock as well as
about 1" of sand sitting on the bottom glass. There are a couple of corals
and a sebae anemone. The previous owner has a filter and a powerhead that
sweeps back and forth.

I wanted to do away with the filter and add 2" more sand to the bottom to
create a 3" DSB (can that just consist of 3" of sand sitting on the bottom
glass?)

Concerned that a UV sterilizer and some way to process the water through
charcoal does not seem to be provided, I guess getting the filter from the
guy would be a good step, but I understand that the filter would breed
nitrates.

Is the filter going to really offer me anything or should I just invest in a
pump and a canister with charcoal material and nothing more ? Can I do this
without causing an increase in nitrates ?

The powerhead sweeps back and forth providing what I would assume is an
inconsistent water flow around the tank. Won't the fish better appreciate
the current to stay the same way ?

If the powerhead fails my tank won't get any oxygen since motion on the top
of the water would be non-existent. Does it make sense to have 2 powerheads
in the event that the first one fails ?

I have read a little about R/O systems. Why can't I use dechlorinated tap
water with IO added then age it a while before use instead of starting out
with R/O water.

What is the best way to move this tank, distance about 20 minutes of normal
driving?

When I add the extra 2 inches of sand will it be seeded without the tank
cycling ?

My intent for this tank will be to try to get some clownfish to breed, what
can I have in the tank that won't **** off the clownfish ? Can I have a tang
or two ? What kind of scavengers can I have that won't eat the eggs but
will keep the DSB clean ?

Thanks in advance

[plaguebeast]

Thanks for the suggestion, I am very much like that, if there is a scratch I
will have dreams about it.

In my house we built a dining room table out of granite. It is sitting on 2
350 lb columns and glued down. It won't move and if we decide to move, it
stays with the house. After it was put in place I noticed that the tiles on
the floor were not put down with spacers and eventhough the table was
centered in the room, the tiles being unevenly spaced made it look crooked.
It drove me and my wife so crazy that we installed a wood floor with the
lines going the other way so that the table appeared correctly.


"ReeFeR_MaN" > wrote in message
...
> Others will help you with a lot of your other questions.
> Just one bit of advice from me, check VERY carefully that the
> tank is not scratched, as even one small scratch can drive you nuts. Its
all
> you ever look at.
>
>
>
>
> "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I have read 4 or 5 books on marine aquariums as well as this newsgroup
and
> > most of the links people provide, yes, Marc, I have read your pages
also,
> > they are probably the most informative.
> >
> > For my first try at a marine tank, I am buying a 29 gallon "established"
> > ~minireef from someone. In the tank is about 50lbs of live rock as well
> as
> > about 1" of sand sitting on the bottom glass. There are a couple of
> corals
> > and a sebae anemone. The previous owner has a filter and a powerhead
that
> > sweeps back and forth.
> >
> > I wanted to do away with the filter and add 2" more sand to the bottom
to
> > create a 3" DSB (can that just consist of 3" of sand sitting on the
bottom
> > glass?)
> >
> > Concerned that a UV sterilizer and some way to process the water through
> > charcoal does not seem to be provided, I guess getting the filter from
the
> > guy would be a good step, but I understand that the filter would breed
> > nitrates.
> >
> > Is the filter going to really offer me anything or should I just invest
in
> a
> > pump and a canister with charcoal material and nothing more ? Can I do
> this
> > without causing an increase in nitrates ?
> >
> > The powerhead sweeps back and forth providing what I would assume is an
> > inconsistent water flow around the tank. Won't the fish better
appreciate
> > the current to stay the same way ?
> >
> > If the powerhead fails my tank won't get any oxygen since motion on the
> top
> > of the water would be non-existent. Does it make sense to have 2
> powerheads
> > in the event that the first one fails ?
> >
> > I have read a little about R/O systems. Why can't I use dechlorinated
tap
> > water with IO added then age it a while before use instead of starting
out
> > with R/O water.
> >
> > What is the best way to move this tank, distance about 20 minutes of
> normal
> > driving?
> >
> > When I add the extra 2 inches of sand will it be seeded without the tank
> > cycling ?
> >
> > My intent for this tank will be to try to get some clownfish to breed,
> what
> > can I have in the tank that won't **** off the clownfish ? Can I have a
> tang
> > or two ? What kind of scavengers can I have that won't eat the eggs
but
> > will keep the DSB clean ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

plaguebeast wrote:

> For my first try at a marine tank, I am buying a 29 gallon "established"
> ~minireef from someone. In the tank is about 50lbs of live rock as well as
> about 1" of sand sitting on the bottom glass. There are a couple of corals
> and a sebae anemone. The previous owner has a filter and a powerhead that
> sweeps back and forth.
>
> I wanted to do away with the filter and add 2" more sand to the bottom to
> create a 3" DSB (can that just consist of 3" of sand sitting on the bottom
> glass?)

If you have a DSB, 50 lbs of LR, and a protein skimmer, you can do away with the
external filter. ;)

> Concerned that a UV sterilizer and some way to process the water through
> charcoal does not seem to be provided, I guess getting the filter from the
> guy would be a good step, but I understand that the filter would breed
> nitrates.

I used to make this mistake all the time. Charcoal is for grilling, Carbon for
filtering. Running carbon isn't that important for a reef tank, but very
important for a Fish Only tank.

> Is the filter going to really offer me anything or should I just invest in a
> pump and a canister with charcoal material and nothing more ? Can I do this
> without causing an increase in nitrates ?

I personally don't like any type of filter, even canister ones. Letting the LS
and LR do the work, plus the use of a protein skimmer (PS) to remove dissolved
organic compounds (DOCs) before they break down -- this works best for many.

Dirty filter pads/floss can cause nitrates. Rinse them weekly or more often to
avoid that problem. Don't over feed either, btw.

> The powerhead sweeps back and forth providing what I would assume is an
> inconsistent water flow around the tank. Won't the fish better appreciate
> the current to stay the same way ?

The ocean is random, and that is the point of that powerhead.

> If the powerhead fails my tank won't get any oxygen since motion on the top
> of the water would be non-existent. Does it make sense to have 2 powerheads
> in the event that the first one fails ?

I had 3 in my 29g at one point. 3 Maxijet 1200s to be exact. One was always
pointed at the surface to break the water and promote gas exchange. The other
two were at a high and low spot, one pointing straight ahead and one pointing
diagonally to avoid having any dead spots in the water. I'd add more powerheads
to your tank. If one does fail, the others should keep going.

> I have read a little about R/O systems. Why can't I use dechlorinated tap
> water with IO added then age it a while before use instead of starting out
> with R/O water.

I used tap water conditioned with Seachem's "Prime" for a long time. However,
RO/DI is far better water supply and keeps out toxic metals, plus I didn't have
to buy Prime anymore. :) You can use Distilled water if you like. Getting an
RO/DI is best.

> What is the best way to move this tank, distance about 20 minutes of normal
> driving?

Buy a brand new trashcan. Drain some tank water into the trashcan with a siphon
hose. Move all the LR into the trashcan, making sure it is submerged. Fish and
corals can be bagged, or carefully added to the trashcan as well. If it has
wheels, it is even easier to move.

> When I add the extra 2 inches of sand will it be seeded without the tank
> cycling ?

It will not cause a cycle, but it will make a mess. I would attempt to
carefully move the LS to one side, and put the new sand in the other and work
the LS on top. Basically, I'd attempt to get the new sand on the bottom and the
current sand on top of it. It will seed over time.

> My intent for this tank will be to try to get some clownfish to breed, what
> can I have in the tank that won't **** off the clownfish ? Can I have a tang
> or two ? What kind of scavengers can I have that won't eat the eggs but
> will keep the DSB clean ?

Breeding clowns in a 29g might make it tough to add other fish since they'd be
especially territorial. Get the book "Clownfish" by Joyce Wilkerson to learn
the details to successfully rear the fry.

I doubt you could keep one tang in a 29g. I had a Blue Atlantic Tang in my 55g
and he had no room. I had to give him away.

Blue legged crabs, snails, a cucumber.. they all clean things up. A fighting
conch baby would be good to keep the sand stirred up. You do need to read about
the hatching though, as most move the eggs to another tank before they release.
And you have to grow rotifers to feed them, and it takes months until they are a
decent size.

Marc


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[plaguebeast]

I keep checking this group waiting for YOUR answers, you can't imagine my
excitment when I saw a response from you.

I have a few more questions, if you don't mind...


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
>
>

> If you have a DSB, 50 lbs of LR, and a protein skimmer, you can do away
with the
> external filter. ;)

a DSB seems to be nothing more then 3" of sand at the bottom of the tank,
right ?


> > Concerned that a UV sterilizer and some way to process the water through
> > charcoal does not seem to be provided, I guess getting the filter from
the
> > guy would be a good step, but I understand that the filter would breed
> > nitrates.
>
> I used to make this mistake all the time. Charcoal is for grilling,
Carbon for
> filtering. Running carbon isn't that important for a reef tank, but very
> important for a Fish Only tank.
>
funny thing is I knew that, just managed to make the mistake. Like calling
my "fins", "flippers", until I got tired of other divers on the boat
laughing at me.

the tank has a couple of corals and the anemone because the guy does not
want them. My intention was no to have a reef, just a FO. Isn't it going
to be a PITA to try to maintain a reef as my first attempt at any kind of
fishtank at all ?

The guys says the anemone is a seabay (sp?), will that host percula ?

>
> I personally don't like any type of filter, even canister ones. Letting
the LS
> and LR do the work, plus the use of a protein skimmer (PS) to remove
dissolved
> organic compounds (DOCs) before they break down -- this works best for
many.

is there such thing as a UV sterilizer that can be incorporated with a PS or
do I have to invest in a pump to have one ?
..
> I used tap water conditioned with Seachem's "Prime" for a long time.
However,
> RO/DI is far better water supply and keeps out toxic metals, plus I didn't
have
> to buy Prime anymore. :) You can use Distilled water if you like.
Getting an
> RO/DI is best.

I saw somewhere, it might have been one of your postings, that a decent
producing RO/DI system would cost me about $150, is that right ? What
brand/model would be in that price range ?

>
> > What is the best way to move this tank, distance about 20 minutes of
normal
> > driving?
>
> Buy a brand new trashcan. Drain some tank water into the trashcan with a
siphon
> hose. Move all the LR into the trashcan, making sure it is submerged.
Fish and
> corals can be bagged, or carefully added to the trashcan as well. If it
has
> wheels, it is even easier to move.
>
can LR and corals be exposed to air for any amount of time, even the time it
would take to move from the tank to the trashcan or do they have to be moved
without contacting air at all ?

> > When I add the extra 2 inches of sand will it be seeded without the tank
> > cycling ?
>
> It will not cause a cycle, but it will make a mess. I would attempt to
> carefully move the LS to one side, and put the new sand in the other and
work
> the LS on top. Basically, I'd attempt to get the new sand on the bottom
and the
> current sand on top of it. It will seed over time.

this should be easy if I move the contents of the tank to the trashcan and
then back when I get to my house.

>
> > My intent for this tank will be to try to get some clownfish to breed,
what
> > can I have in the tank that won't **** off the clownfish ? Can I have a
tang
> > or two ? What kind of scavengers can I have that won't eat the eggs
but
> > will keep the DSB clean ?
>
> Breeding clowns in a 29g might make it tough to add other fish since
they'd be
> especially territorial. Get the book "Clownfish" by Joyce Wilkerson to
learn
> the details to successfully rear the fry.
>
already got the book, very interesting, full of useful information.

> I doubt you could keep one tang in a 29g. I had a Blue Atlantic Tang in
my 55g
> and he had no room. I had to give him away.
>

got it, nothing, just my pair of clownfish.

> Blue legged crabs, snails, a cucumber.. they all clean things up. A
fighting
> conch baby would be good to keep the sand stirred up. You do need to read
about
> the hatching though, as most move the eggs to another tank before they
release.
> And you have to grow rotifers to feed them, and it takes months until they
are a
> decent size.
>
rotifers, green water, got that from the book.

Is there a market to sell the fish I raise or am I going to end up giving
them away ?


> Marc
>
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Teeb]

welll if it's only one scratch on one of the long sides then you hopefully
just turn that side to the back?

Teeb


"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
.. .
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, I am very much like that, if there is a scratch
I
> will have dreams about it.
>
> In my house we built a dining room table out of granite. It is sitting on
2
> 350 lb columns and glued down. It won't move and if we decide to move, it
> stays with the house. After it was put in place I noticed that the tiles
on
> the floor were not put down with spacers and eventhough the table was
> centered in the room, the tiles being unevenly spaced made it look
crooked.
> It drove me and my wife so crazy that we installed a wood floor with the
> lines going the other way so that the table appeared correctly.

[Marc Levenson]

plaguebeast wrote:

> I keep checking this group waiting for YOUR answers, you can't imagine my
> excitment when I saw a response from you.

Wow, I'm honored. :)

> I have a few more questions, if you don't mind...

Sure....

> a DSB seems to be nothing more then 3" of sand at the bottom of the tank,
> right ?

4" to 6" deep. I use 4" in my 55g with good results.

> the tank has a couple of corals and the anemone because the guy does not
> want them. My intention was no to have a reef, just a FO. Isn't it going
> to be a PITA to try to maintain a reef as my first attempt at any kind of
> fishtank at all ?

Not necessarily. It is nice to see fish and corals interact, ime. FO means not
a speck of rock in sight. Kinda boring to me, but perhaps that is what you
wish.... But without LR, you lose a very good denitrifying mechanism.

> The guys says the anemone is a seabay (sp?), will that host percula ?
>

Don't know. I've not studied up on clownfish and their hosts. Seabae Anemones
in Google might provide the answer. Or check this link perhaps - I've not read
it all myself:

http://biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/ch2.html#biac


> is there such thing as a UV sterilizer that can be incorporated with a PS or
> do I have to invest in a pump to have one ?

I think it has to run separately. I don't use one myself.

> I saw somewhere, it might have been one of your postings, that a decent
> producing RO/DI system would cost me about $150, is that right ? What
> brand/model would be in that price range ?

h2ofix.com was just sold or closed down, and that was my recommendation. I'm
bummed. There are companies like Kent, Spectrapure, and Air Water & Ice that
all provide units. Ebay has them as well. Just look for "ro/di" I prefer a
5-stage 100gpd unit.

Btw, for the lurkers: Air Water & Ice is supposed to continue to warranty the
units from h2ofix if you have problems. Hmmm.

> can LR and corals be exposed to air for any amount of time, even the time it
> would take to move from the tank to the trashcan or do they have to be moved
> without contacting air at all ?

It depends on the coral. Starfish and sponges usually can NOT. You can scoop
them up in a small tupperware bowl and submerge / pour them into the trashcan.

> Is there a market to sell the fish I raise or am I going to end up giving
> them away ?

You may find the LFS in your area will be willing to buy some for resale. You
could also make it known to the reef club in your area that you are selling
tank-raised clowns. If all goes well! :)

Marc


--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Don Geddis]

"plaguebeast" > writes:
> The guys says the anemone is a seabay (sp?)

"Sebae". Probably a Heteractis Crispa or Heteractis Malu.

> will that host percula ?

You can check for natural pairings in the wild at
http://www.biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/intro.html

However, lots of odd pairings have been observed in captivity (including
clownfish in fleshy corals instead of anemones, which isn't seen in the wild).

It's likely there's a good chance that your percula will inhabit a sebae, but
sometimes it depends on the individuals. Or takes a lot of time.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/