Timer / Temperature Controller

[Ken]

Something that others may be interested in:

My problem right now is that my tank can increase 5 degrees in an eight hour
period if I turn off the A/C unit. On the other hand, with electricity
problems being as they are in Southern California, I don't want to waste
anymore power then I need to. So I am looking at rigging up a temperature
controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't looked,
but I don't think home depot has it).

Another thing... My sump pump went out, and so I got out an old one I had,
but it goes a little too slow for my tastes. I have been thinking about
using a 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.
Would this be a bit excessive? If so, I was thinking of taking a variable
fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control the
speed of the pump. Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook the
lights up also... but I don't think I will.

Those are my current ideas, if anyone has any others let me know.

Ken

[Steven Bartling]

For the pond pump question : I used to use a 1600gph
pump on a 100 gallon tank. When you factored in the
6 ft head from the sump to the tank, the actual
flow rate was about 800 gph. As long as you use
something to create a more diffuse current in the
tank for the return current path ( such as a long pvc
pipe with a bunch of holes drilled in it ), you
will find the extra water flow to be beneficial
to the tank.

The only other issue is that you need to make
sure that you have the ability to handle the
water flow to the sump via large enough overflows.

If you want to restrict the pump performance,
simply place a PVC ball valve on the output
of the pump. Never, never place the flow
restrictor on the input to a pump. It will cause
the pump to cavitate. This will potentially
damage the pump impeller, impeller bearings,
and/or cause the pump to overheat.

Using a light dimmer to control the pump will
likely burn up the pump motor or cause it
to run extremely hot.

Light dimmers work by taking the 60 hertz sinusoidal
electrical voltage and chop it up by turning the
output voltage on and off rapidly. I'll try not
to get too technical here. Presenting a time varying
voltage to a resistor ( light bulb ) will require
a higher peak voltage to achieve the same power dissipation
in the resistor ( light intensity in the bulb ) compared
with what you could achieve using using a non-changing
DC voltage. By chopping up the AC waveform, you reduce
the dc equivalent voltage through the light bulb and
thus reduce the light intensity. For a motor that is
designed to use the time varying magnetic field
to convert the electrical potential into mechanical
energy ( rotating the shaft of the pump ), chopping
up the voltage can produce problems.

For a motor that is design to operate with a smooth
sinusoidal time varying current, chopping up the
voltage to it will have one of three effects :
1) The motor will cease to work at all, 2)
the motor will run slower, but will get hotter,
3) The motor will burn up and cause a fire.

It really depends on the motor design.

- Steven


Ken wrote:
> Something that others may be interested in:
>
> My problem right now is that my tank can increase 5 degrees in an eight hour
> period if I turn off the A/C unit. On the other hand, with electricity
> problems being as they are in Southern California, I don't want to waste
> anymore power then I need to. So I am looking at rigging up a temperature
> controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
> around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't looked,
> but I don't think home depot has it).
>
> Another thing... My sump pump went out, and so I got out an old one I had,
> but it goes a little too slow for my tastes. I have been thinking about
> using a 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.
> Would this be a bit excessive? If so, I was thinking of taking a variable
> fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
> ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control the
> speed of the pump. Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook the
> lights up also... but I don't think I will.
>
> Those are my current ideas, if anyone has any others let me know.
>
> Ken
>
>

[Dan Norgard]

You can get a Line-voltage thermostat, or use a standard (24v) t-stat and
run it through a relay, aka fan center.
Dan


"Ken" > wrote in message
...
Something that others may be interested in:

My problem right now is that my tank can increase 5 degrees in an eight hour
period if I turn off the A/C unit. On the other hand, with electricity
problems being as they are in Southern California, I don't want to waste
anymore power then I need to. So I am looking at rigging up a temperature
controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't looked,
but I don't think home depot has it).

Another thing... My sump pump went out, and so I got out an old one I had,
but it goes a little too slow for my tastes. I have been thinking about
using a 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.
Would this be a bit excessive? If so, I was thinking of taking a variable
fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control the
speed of the pump. Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook the
lights up also... but I don't think I will.

Those are my current ideas, if anyone has any others let me know.

Ken

[Ken]

Thanks! I will go ahead and try the new pump, chances are with the 6 ft
head, like you said, it will be reduced down to a point to where it will be
perfect. Thanks for the warning about the fan controller.

Ken

"Steven Bartling" > wrote in message
...
> For the pond pump question : I used to use a 1600gph
> pump on a 100 gallon tank. When you factored in the
> 6 ft head from the sump to the tank, the actual
> flow rate was about 800 gph. As long as you use
> something to create a more diffuse current in the
> tank for the return current path ( such as a long pvc
> pipe with a bunch of holes drilled in it ), you
> will find the extra water flow to be beneficial
> to the tank.
>
> The only other issue is that you need to make
> sure that you have the ability to handle the
> water flow to the sump via large enough overflows.
>
> If you want to restrict the pump performance,
> simply place a PVC ball valve on the output
> of the pump. Never, never place the flow
> restrictor on the input to a pump. It will cause
> the pump to cavitate. This will potentially
> damage the pump impeller, impeller bearings,
> and/or cause the pump to overheat.
>
> Using a light dimmer to control the pump will
> likely burn up the pump motor or cause it
> to run extremely hot.
>
> Light dimmers work by taking the 60 hertz sinusoidal
> electrical voltage and chop it up by turning the
> output voltage on and off rapidly. I'll try not
> to get too technical here. Presenting a time varying
> voltage to a resistor ( light bulb ) will require
> a higher peak voltage to achieve the same power dissipation
> in the resistor ( light intensity in the bulb ) compared
> with what you could achieve using using a non-changing
> DC voltage. By chopping up the AC waveform, you reduce
> the dc equivalent voltage through the light bulb and
> thus reduce the light intensity. For a motor that is
> designed to use the time varying magnetic field
> to convert the electrical potential into mechanical
> energy ( rotating the shaft of the pump ), chopping
> up the voltage can produce problems.
>
> For a motor that is design to operate with a smooth
> sinusoidal time varying current, chopping up the
> voltage to it will have one of three effects :
> 1) The motor will cease to work at all, 2)
> the motor will run slower, but will get hotter,
> 3) The motor will burn up and cause a fire.
>
> It really depends on the motor design.
>
> - Steven
>
>
> Ken wrote:
> > Something that others may be interested in:
> >
> > My problem right now is that my tank can increase 5 degrees in an eight
hour
> > period if I turn off the A/C unit. On the other hand, with electricity
> > problems being as they are in Southern California, I don't want to waste
> > anymore power then I need to. So I am looking at rigging up a
temperature
> > controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
> > around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't
looked,
> > but I don't think home depot has it).
> >
> > Another thing... My sump pump went out, and so I got out an old one I
had,
> > but it goes a little too slow for my tastes. I have been thinking about
> > using a 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.
> > Would this be a bit excessive? If so, I was thinking of taking a
variable
> > fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
> > ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control
the
> > speed of the pump. Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook
the
> > lights up also... but I don't think I will.
> >
> > Those are my current ideas, if anyone has any others let me know.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >

[Ken]

Thanks for the information. I have never built a relay, but they look fairly
straight forward.

Ken


"Dan Norgard" > wrote in message
...
> You can get a Line-voltage thermostat, or use a standard (24v) t-stat and
> run it through a relay, aka fan center.
> Dan
>
>
> "Ken" > wrote in message
> ...
> Something that others may be interested in:
>
> My problem right now is that my tank can increase 5 degrees in an eight
hour
> period if I turn off the A/C unit. On the other hand, with electricity
> problems being as they are in Southern California, I don't want to waste
> anymore power then I need to. So I am looking at rigging up a temperature
> controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
> around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't
looked,
> but I don't think home depot has it).
>
> Another thing... My sump pump went out, and so I got out an old one I had,
> but it goes a little too slow for my tastes. I have been thinking about
> using a 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.
> Would this be a bit excessive? If so, I was thinking of taking a variable
> fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
> ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control the
> speed of the pump. Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook
the
> lights up also... but I don't think I will.
>
> Those are my current ideas, if anyone has any others let me know.
>
> Ken
>
>
>

[Pszemol]

"Ken" > wrote in message ...
> So I am looking at rigging up a temperature
> controller that I can plug the window A/C unit into, and just set it to
> around ~78 degrees. Any ideas as to where I can find one? (I haven't
> looked, but I don't think home depot has it).

Every window A/C unit comes in with a termostat built into the unit.
It will not turn on the compressor if not needed.

> 700gph pond pump I have spare, but my tank is only a 100 gallon.

What kind of tank is it? Reef/FO? Soft corals? SPS?
Pond pump *might* have metal parts which will not be good for sal****er.
BTW - 700gph rating is at 4' height or at 0' height? Consider drop of
the flow when you add piping and pumping water upwards.

> If so, I was thinking of taking a variable
> fan controller (the kind that goes in the place of a wall switch for a
> ceiling fan) and rigging it up with a cord and outlet so I can control the
> speed of the pump.

It will not work. These fan controllers are designed to control
different kind of motors than you have in regular water pumps.

> Heck, I could even buy a remote control unit and hook the
> lights up also... but I don't think I will.

It will not work also. Regular electronic dimmers are for
incadescent light only. Fluorescent or MH lights require
a complete different circutry for dimmming.

[Billy]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...

|
| What kind of tank is it? Reef/FO? Soft corals? SPS?
| Pond pump *might* have metal parts which will not be good for
sal****er.
| BTW - 700gph rating is at 4' height or at 0' height? Consider drop
of
| the flow when you add piping and pumping water upwards.
|

True! I use a pond pump in my 75, but before purchasing, I
disassembled the unit to look for metal parts. The only metal part is
the impeller shaft, stainless steel. I checked it weekly for
corrosion the first 2-3 months after installation.


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[Ken]

> What kind of tank is it? Reef/FO? Soft corals? SPS?
> Pond pump *might* have metal parts which will not be good for sal****er.
> BTW - 700gph rating is at 4' height or at 0' height? Consider drop of
> the flow when you add piping and pumping water upwards.

I am still new to the termonalogy of Salt water tanks... and this tank I was
given from a friend, so bear with me. It has live rock in it, and it uses
and overflow and a sump filteration system.

I am not possitive on the rating on the pump, since the box didn't give any
more details then it supports a 700 gallon pond, and since I know that ponds
need to be cycled at least once per hour, I assumed it was a 700 gph pump...
I will try to find out for sure.

> It will not work. These fan controllers are designed to control
> different kind of motors than you have in regular water pumps.

I was thinking that might be the case... thanks for confirming it.

-Ken

[Ken]

> True! I use a pond pump in my 75, but before purchasing, I
> disassembled the unit to look for metal parts. The only metal part is
> the impeller shaft, stainless steel. I checked it weekly for
> corrosion the first 2-3 months after installation.

Thanks for the tip, I will look at it before I install it.

-Ken

[Billy]

"Ken" > wrote in message
...
|

|
| I am not possitive on the rating on the pump, since the box didn't
give any
| more details then it supports a 700 gallon pond, and since I know
that ponds
| need to be cycled at least once per hour, I assumed it was a 700
gph pump...
| I will try to find out for sure.
|

If it doesn't have the gph(lph) rating printed on it somewhere,
you'll have to guess. If it *IS* 700gph, that will refer to it's
rating without a "head". (distance of vertical lift). Average
sump-to-tank head is 4-5 feet, that would lower your 700gph
significantly, in addition to 'elbows' in the return line.


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[Ken H]

I looked it up on the website... it is only 350 at 1' lift. No where near
what I would like.

Ken

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Ken" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
>
> |
> | I am not possitive on the rating on the pump, since the box didn't
> give any
> | more details then it supports a 700 gallon pond, and since I know
> that ponds
> | need to be cycled at least once per hour, I assumed it was a 700
> gph pump...
> | I will try to find out for sure.
> |
>
> If it doesn't have the gph(lph) rating printed on it somewhere,
> you'll have to guess. If it *IS* 700gph, that will refer to it's
> rating without a "head". (distance of vertical lift). Average
> sump-to-tank head is 4-5 feet, that would lower your 700gph
> significantly, in addition to 'elbows' in the return line.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004
>
>