Dying Blue Rams

[TYNK 7]

Hello fishy folks.
I have a quandry that is making me both nuts and extremely sad every time they
croak.

I love Blue Rams. I've had them in the past.
However, the last pair I just had up and died. They were gorgeous, appeared
perfectly healthy and acted accordingly (I am well aware of the fact that many
diseases/parasties cannot be seen fromt he outside). The day before the male
died the pair was looking for a good place to spawn. The female was ripe with
eggs and I had expected a batch any day now.
Well, night before last the male just died. He swirled and croaked. Nothing
more, nothing less. Did a whirly and then was dead.
This mornig, the female is dead. Nobody else is dying in the tank. They were
not being harrassed by any tank mates.
The only factor that I'm thinking could have possibly been a cause would be the
recent water change the night before the male died.
Are these fish so extemely sensitive to a tiny difference in the water
chemistry...even from a 20% water change?
The Rams I've had in the past never seemed to affected by water changes.
Any ideas for me?
I truly enjoy these little Cichlids, but don't want to be killing them with
kidness (water changes).
I feel like a newbie and I'm sitting here scratching my head without a clue.
Could it be possible that the female died because of the loss of her mate, or
possibly even becoming egg bound (I'm thinking this theory).

[Happy'Cam'per]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> The only factor that I'm thinking could have possibly been a cause would
be the
> recent water change the night before the male died.
> Are these fish so extemely sensitive to a tiny difference in the water
> chemistry...even from a 20% water change?

Hi Tynk 7

I am currently on about my fifth pair of blue Rams in about 2 years!!! I'm
determined to keep these fish as I too find them irresistable! I have heard
many theories on why they die out so quickly:
-Weak genes from improper breeding.
-Acclimate time to new environment should be longer than usual (possibly a
few hours!!!)
-Sensitive to new water!
-etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, I have read some of Gina Sanford's work and she says that Blue Rams
do not like new water at all, it must be well aged for a few days before
being poured into the tank. This I think ties in with your observations. I
currently have my pair in a community aquarium but feel that they would
probably fair better in a tank of their own as I do HEFTY water changes
(50 - 70% weekly). I'll see how it goes!

They seem to be extremely sensitive to changes in environment, i think this
is the main cause of death, everything should be slow and gradual wuth them.
Anyhoo, if you decide to get a new pair I wish you luck, and sympathies for
the pair you have just lost :(

FWIW, why don't you try some Bolivian Rams as a substitute, certainly not as
colourful as a Ram but they appear to be much hardier and have nice manners
:) Very nice fish for a community tank.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[luminos]

> They seem to be extremely sensitive to changes in environment,


This is correct from my experience. They are very, very difficult to keep
long term. Bolivian Rams, on the other hand, are far more forgiving.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Dying Blue Rams
>From: "Happy'Cam'per"
>Date: 9/13/2004 4:00 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>> The only factor that I'm thinking could have possibly been a cause would
>be the
>> recent water change the night before the male died.
>> Are these fish so extemely sensitive to a tiny difference in the water
>> chemistry...even from a 20% water change?
>
>Hi Tynk 7
>
>I am currently on about my fifth pair of blue Rams in about 2 years!!! I'm
>determined to keep these fish as I too find them irresistable! I have heard
>many theories on why they die out so quickly:
>-Weak genes from improper breeding.
>-Acclimate time to new environment should be longer than usual (possibly a
>few hours!!!)
>-Sensitive to new water!
>-etc. etc. etc.
>
>Anyway, I have read some of Gina Sanford's work and she says that Blue Rams
>do not like new water at all, it must be well aged for a few days before
>being poured into the tank. This I think ties in with your observations. I
>currently have my pair in a community aquarium but feel that they would
>probably fair better in a tank of their own as I do HEFTY water changes
>(50 - 70% weekly). I'll see how it goes!
>
>They seem to be extremely sensitive to changes in environment, i think this
>is the main cause of death, everything should be slow and gradual wuth them.
>Anyhoo, if you decide to get a new pair I wish you luck, and sympathies for
>the pair you have just lost :(
>
>FWIW, why don't you try some Bolivian Rams as a substitute, certainly not as
>colourful as a Ram but they appear to be much hardier and have nice manners
>:) Very nice fish for a community tank.
>--
>**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Hi there Happy.
I did get a new pair today. I just have to try again.
I acclimated the last pair nearly an hour, adding small amounts of my tank
water every 10 minutes.
I did the same with this pair, but took an hour and 20 this time, also adding
small amounts (smaller than last time) of tank water each 10 minutes.
I may have to switch what tank I keep them in because the 75g gets weekly, 20%
water changes, every week.
I can move them into a smaller tank, which would be easier to do water changes
with aged water.
Oh..on your idea of trying Bolivian Rams....before my last pair of Blue's that
I had, I did have Bolivian Rams.Even though they died too..they came in
diseased, and luckily had gone right into quranteen, so no tanks were infected
with what ever they had. The other store that I had gotten the Bolivians from
had lost their entire shipment too. I had tried the Bolivians because back then
the Blues weren't to be found anywhere and the shops were having trouble
getting them.
Eric (from this newsgroup) visits the shop I got the Blue rams from
(Naperville, IL PetLand). They got in a lovely shipment about 2 weeks ago and
they still look absolutely wonderful.
Every one of them has bold, beautiful coloring, several pairs are getting ready
to spawn, and all look to be in great health still.
I talked with the guy there and he didn't think a 20% water change would have
killed them, but I think I disagree. They were just too robust and getting
ready to spawn (I only had them less than a week!), and then just croaked after
the water change. No other fish have died, so I'm still leaning towards the
water change.
I'll take your advice about doing it slow, and with aged water.
We sure are 2 peas in a pod with these Rams, hehe. They're so pretty, and I
cannot resist them.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Dying Blue Rams
>From: "luminos"
>Date: 9/13/2004 4:10 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>> They seem to be extremely sensitive to changes in environment,
>
>
>This is correct from my experience. They are very, very difficult to keep
>long term. Bolivian Rams, on the other hand, are far more forgiving

Besides that first pair of Bolivian Rams I had that came in diseased (a while
ago, and they looked good when they had first come in), the other stores
haven't had good stock. All looked nasty, thin and faded.
It had been so long since I had seen any that even looked ok at a shop, that
when I saw the shipment that I had bought a pair from, I jumped on them. They
lasted a couple days.
I went back to the shop with them and it was as if they had been waiting to see
me again. = /
I walked in the door and she looked at me and said your Rams died right...
Their tank was full of dead, dying or faded Bolivians. They left the dead in
the tank!
I won't be doing anymore fish purchases at that store, that's for sure!
I swear, there must have been about 8 dead ones, and many more half dead.
Disgusting.
This was not the same place I bought the Blue Rams at.

[Vicki S]

I have not kept rams for some years now (kept dying in me too) but have
similar luck with discus. My discus were bought from two local shops.
Store A sells discus from expensive import breeders and store B sells
from local breeders. All but one of my discus from store A have died,
but every one from store B is happy and thriving.

Guess it all boils down to the water conditions in my area. So perhaps
you could look in to some locally bread rams.

Vicki


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[Happy'Cam'per]

Hi Kelly :)

Glad to hear you're going to give it another try, good on ya. May the fish
force be with you.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Dying Blue Rams
>From: "Happy'Cam'per"
>Date: 9/14/2004 1:18 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>Hi Kelly :)
>
>Glad to hear you're going to give it another try, good on ya. May the fish
>force be with you.
>--
>**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

ROFL! Tanks, I needed that. = )~