Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem

[NetMax]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
t...
> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Subject: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
> > >From: "Dan White"
> > >Date: 9/13/2004 12:45 PM Central Daylight Time
> > >Message-id: >
> > >
> > >Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics
make
> it
> > >look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night,
and
> maybe
> > >he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every
once in
> > >awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
> > >
> > >
> >
>http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store
=
> > &prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
> > >
> > >Anything to be concerned about?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >dwhite
> > >
> >
> > Hi Dan.
> > I took a gander at the photos you have of it and the lump cannot be
seen
> to
> > well.
>
> Thanks Tynk. Yeah, it looks more like a scrape of some kind than a
bump,
> but I'm quite sure there was more of a bump there before.
>
> > However, what concerns me a little more is that it's body is sunken
in on
> > the top front half.
> > The lump could be a tumor or even a parasite.
>
> I don't have much experience to compare this fish to others. He does
have a
> rather large stomach, as if he is full.
>
> > Do you have any other fish in with this fish?
>
> There are 7 black neon tetras that have grown quite a bit in just about
a
> month. One of the neons seems to have a bit of a scrape mark on his
side.
> I'm watching it but don't think it is anything (?). 6 cardinal tetras,
one
> quarter size angel, a cory and a betta. All fish eat well.
>
> > Is there anything else going on in this tank, such as other symptoms
that
> you
> > may not think are related tot his fish?
>
> When I introduced the betta the gourami became much more animated,
hungry,
> confident, etc.. He is frequently picking at some of the plants. He
seems
> to have a big appetite, but I won't feed enough to see if he ever stops
> eating. I thought maybe this was strange, but then the angel always
looks
> hungry, too.
>
> > Things like bent spines, black spots, open lesions, swollen body,
sunken
> in
> > body (other than this Gourami), sudden unexplained deaths, etc?
>
> Other than what could be a cut or abrasion on one of the larger black
neon
> tetras, the others look perfect. Of course they are mostly just
tetras. I
> understand what you are asking about other clues, but I don't know of
> anything else. I may have to wait and see if this growth comes up
again,
> and then take a pic. Maybe I should net him first. It is a real pain
in
> the A to get him to stay still!
>
> The tank is a month or so old, and I haven't lost any fish. They
appear to
> be thriving.
>
> dwhite


I suspect TYNK 7 is on the right track. For Dwarf Gouramis, I look at
the body shape immediately behind the skull. From a side view, the
contour of the head should not drastically change after the skull. In
yours, you can see an arc on either side of the end of the skull (along
the top). Also look around the pectoral fin. There is an indent behind
the head, as if the fish is emancipated. These signs suggest some type
of disease, or the fish is recovering from some ailment. Slow
emancipation is what I associate with internal diseases (ie: bacterial or
internal parasite) which prevent the fish from eating (loss of appetite)
or prevents the food from being processed efficiently (internal
parasites, diseased internal tissues). I would not do anything drastic
on just my say-so from a picture, but I think that it would be worthwhile
quarantining him. If he gets sicker, you don't want him in the community
tank. I've seen Gouramis slowly go downhill with these symptoms. The
bad news is that the disease progresses slowly and I don't know what
cures you could try. The good news is that in my limited experience, it
seems to target Gouramis, so quarantining early might protect your
community fish.

For a tank only a month old, I suspect you purchased the Gourami this
way, and his symptoms are only slowly becoming more pronounced. For the
age of the tank, there is also the question of water quality, and whether
this is influencing anything.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dan White]

Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics make it
look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night, and maybe
he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every once in
awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos

Anything to be concerned about?

Thanks,
dwhite

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
>From: "Dan White"
>Date: 9/13/2004 12:45 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics make it
>look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night, and maybe
>he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every once in
>awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
>
>
>http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store=
&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
>
>Anything to be concerned about?
>
>Thanks,
>dwhite
>

Hi Dan.
I took a gander at the photos you have of it and the lump cannot be seen to
well. However, what concerns me a little more is that it's body is sunken in on
the top front half.
The lump could be a tumor or even a parasite.
Do you have any other fish in with this fish?
Is there anything else going on in this tank, such as other symptoms that you
may not think are related tot his fish?
Things like bent spines, black spots, open lesions, swollen body, sunken in
body (other than this Gourami), sudden unexplained deaths, etc?

[Dan White]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
> >From: "Dan White"
> >Date: 9/13/2004 12:45 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics make
it
> >look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night, and
maybe
> >he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every once in
> >awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
> >
> >
> >http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store=
> &prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
> >
> >Anything to be concerned about?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >dwhite
> >
>
> Hi Dan.
> I took a gander at the photos you have of it and the lump cannot be seen
to
> well.

Thanks Tynk. Yeah, it looks more like a scrape of some kind than a bump,
but I'm quite sure there was more of a bump there before.

> However, what concerns me a little more is that it's body is sunken in on
> the top front half.
> The lump could be a tumor or even a parasite.

I don't have much experience to compare this fish to others. He does have a
rather large stomach, as if he is full.

> Do you have any other fish in with this fish?

There are 7 black neon tetras that have grown quite a bit in just about a
month. One of the neons seems to have a bit of a scrape mark on his side.
I'm watching it but don't think it is anything (?). 6 cardinal tetras, one
quarter size angel, a cory and a betta. All fish eat well.

> Is there anything else going on in this tank, such as other symptoms that
you
> may not think are related tot his fish?

When I introduced the betta the gourami became much more animated, hungry,
confident, etc.. He is frequently picking at some of the plants. He seems
to have a big appetite, but I won't feed enough to see if he ever stops
eating. I thought maybe this was strange, but then the angel always looks
hungry, too.

> Things like bent spines, black spots, open lesions, swollen body, sunken
in
> body (other than this Gourami), sudden unexplained deaths, etc?

Other than what could be a cut or abrasion on one of the larger black neon
tetras, the others look perfect. Of course they are mostly just tetras. I
understand what you are asking about other clues, but I don't know of
anything else. I may have to wait and see if this growth comes up again,
and then take a pic. Maybe I should net him first. It is a real pain in
the A to get him to stay still!

The tank is a month or so old, and I haven't lost any fish. They appear to
be thriving.

dwhite

[Dan White]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> t...
> > "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Subject: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
> > > >From: "Dan White"
> > > >Date: 9/13/2004 12:45 PM Central Daylight Time
> > > >Message-id: >
> > > >
> > > >Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics
> make
> > it
> > > >look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night,
> and
> > maybe
> > > >he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every
> once in
> > > >awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store
> =
> > > &prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
> > > >
> > > >Anything to be concerned about?
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >dwhite
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Dan.
> > > I took a gander at the photos you have of it and the lump cannot be
> seen
> > to
> > > well.
> >
> > Thanks Tynk. Yeah, it looks more like a scrape of some kind than a
> bump,
> > but I'm quite sure there was more of a bump there before.
> >
> > > However, what concerns me a little more is that it's body is sunken
> in on
> > > the top front half.
> > > The lump could be a tumor or even a parasite.
> >
> > I don't have much experience to compare this fish to others. He does
> have a
> > rather large stomach, as if he is full.
> >
> > > Do you have any other fish in with this fish?
> >
> > There are 7 black neon tetras that have grown quite a bit in just about
> a
> > month. One of the neons seems to have a bit of a scrape mark on his
> side.
> > I'm watching it but don't think it is anything (?). 6 cardinal tetras,
> one
> > quarter size angel, a cory and a betta. All fish eat well.
> >
> > > Is there anything else going on in this tank, such as other symptoms
> that
> > you
> > > may not think are related tot his fish?
> >
> > When I introduced the betta the gourami became much more animated,
> hungry,
> > confident, etc.. He is frequently picking at some of the plants. He
> seems
> > to have a big appetite, but I won't feed enough to see if he ever stops
> > eating. I thought maybe this was strange, but then the angel always
> looks
> > hungry, too.
> >
> > > Things like bent spines, black spots, open lesions, swollen body,
> sunken
> > in
> > > body (other than this Gourami), sudden unexplained deaths, etc?
> >
> > Other than what could be a cut or abrasion on one of the larger black
> neon
> > tetras, the others look perfect. Of course they are mostly just
> tetras. I
> > understand what you are asking about other clues, but I don't know of
> > anything else. I may have to wait and see if this growth comes up
> again,
> > and then take a pic. Maybe I should net him first. It is a real pain
> in
> > the A to get him to stay still!
> >
> > The tank is a month or so old, and I haven't lost any fish. They
> appear to
> > be thriving.
> >
> > dwhite
>
>
> I suspect TYNK 7 is on the right track. For Dwarf Gouramis, I look at
> the body shape immediately behind the skull. From a side view, the
> contour of the head should not drastically change after the skull. In
> yours, you can see an arc on either side of the end of the skull (along
> the top). Also look around the pectoral fin. There is an indent behind
> the head, as if the fish is emancipated. These signs suggest some type
> of disease, or the fish is recovering from some ailment. Slow
> emancipation is what I associate with internal diseases (ie: bacterial or
> internal parasite) which prevent the fish from eating (loss of appetite)
> or prevents the food from being processed efficiently (internal
> parasites, diseased internal tissues). I would not do anything drastic
> on just my say-so from a picture, but I think that it would be worthwhile
> quarantining him. If he gets sicker, you don't want him in the community
> tank. I've seen Gouramis slowly go downhill with these symptoms. The
> bad news is that the disease progresses slowly and I don't know what
> cures you could try. The good news is that in my limited experience, it
> seems to target Gouramis, so quarantining early might protect your
> community fish.
>
> For a tank only a month old, I suspect you purchased the Gourami this
> way, and his symptoms are only slowly becoming more pronounced. For the
> age of the tank, there is also the question of water quality, and whether
> this is influencing anything.
> --

Hmm, the only problem I have is the only other body of water in the house is
a toilet! I guess I could invest in 5 gallon tank and put it on the bottom
shelf of the tank stand. I don't imagine there should be any problem with
weight problems from 40 or 50 lbs resting on the bottom bracket of the stand
(for 55 g tank). It is an old stand, though...

Well I guess I'll just leave things as they are for now and if the blemish
changes I will post more pics here. The fish does have a full looking
stomach, and eats a lot, including pecking at plants a lot, but I know that
can be deceiving. I haven't seen any feces from him in awhile to see
whether it looks normal. I'm actually not able to spend more than a little
time each day with the tank right now.

Thanks, and I'm sure I'll have to post on this again.

dwhite

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
>From: "Dan White"
>Date: 9/13/2004 8:13 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>> "Dan White" > wrote in message
>> t...
>> > "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > >Subject: Pics of Gourami Disease or Problem
>> > > >From: "Dan White"
>> > > >Date: 9/13/2004 12:45 PM Central Daylight Time
>> > > >Message-id: >
>> > > >
>> > > >Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics
>> make
>> > it
>> > > >look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night,
>> and
>> > maybe
>> > > >he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every
>> once in
>> > > >awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store
>> =
>> > > &prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
>> > > >
>> > > >Anything to be concerned about?
>> > > >
>> > > >Thanks,
>> > > >dwhite
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Dan.
>> > > I took a gander at the photos you have of it and the lump cannot be
>> seen
>> > to
>> > > well.
>> >
>> > Thanks Tynk. Yeah, it looks more like a scrape of some kind than a
>> bump,
>> > but I'm quite sure there was more of a bump there before.
>> >
>> > > However, what concerns me a little more is that it's body is sunken
>> in on
>> > > the top front half.
>> > > The lump could be a tumor or even a parasite.
>> >
>> > I don't have much experience to compare this fish to others. He does
>> have a
>> > rather large stomach, as if he is full.
>> >
>> > > Do you have any other fish in with this fish?
>> >
>> > There are 7 black neon tetras that have grown quite a bit in just about
>> a
>> > month. One of the neons seems to have a bit of a scrape mark on his
>> side.
>> > I'm watching it but don't think it is anything (?). 6 cardinal tetras,
>> one
>> > quarter size angel, a cory and a betta. All fish eat well.
>> >
>> > > Is there anything else going on in this tank, such as other symptoms
>> that
>> > you
>> > > may not think are related tot his fish?
>> >
>> > When I introduced the betta the gourami became much more animated,
>> hungry,
>> > confident, etc.. He is frequently picking at some of the plants. He
>> seems
>> > to have a big appetite, but I won't feed enough to see if he ever stops
>> > eating. I thought maybe this was strange, but then the angel always
>> looks
>> > hungry, too.
>> >
>> > > Things like bent spines, black spots, open lesions, swollen body,
>> sunken
>> > in
>> > > body (other than this Gourami), sudden unexplained deaths, etc?
>> >
>> > Other than what could be a cut or abrasion on one of the larger black
>> neon
>> > tetras, the others look perfect. Of course they are mostly just
>> tetras. I
>> > understand what you are asking about other clues, but I don't know of
>> > anything else. I may have to wait and see if this growth comes up
>> again,
>> > and then take a pic. Maybe I should net him first. It is a real pain
>> in
>> > the A to get him to stay still!
>> >
>> > The tank is a month or so old, and I haven't lost any fish. They
>> appear to
>> > be thriving.
>> >
>> > dwhite
>>
>>
>> I suspect TYNK 7 is on the right track. For Dwarf Gouramis, I look at
>> the body shape immediately behind the skull. From a side view, the
>> contour of the head should not drastically change after the skull. In
>> yours, you can see an arc on either side of the end of the skull (along
>> the top). Also look around the pectoral fin. There is an indent behind
>> the head, as if the fish is emancipated. These signs suggest some type
>> of disease, or the fish is recovering from some ailment. Slow
>> emancipation is what I associate with internal diseases (ie: bacterial or
>> internal parasite) which prevent the fish from eating (loss of appetite)
>> or prevents the food from being processed efficiently (internal
>> parasites, diseased internal tissues). I would not do anything drastic
>> on just my say-so from a picture, but I think that it would be worthwhile
>> quarantining him. If he gets sicker, you don't want him in the community
>> tank. I've seen Gouramis slowly go downhill with these symptoms. The
>> bad news is that the disease progresses slowly and I don't know what
>> cures you could try. The good news is that in my limited experience, it
>> seems to target Gouramis, so quarantining early might protect your
>> community fish.
>>
>> For a tank only a month old, I suspect you purchased the Gourami this
>> way, and his symptoms are only slowly becoming more pronounced. For the
>> age of the tank, there is also the question of water quality, and whether
>> this is influencing anything.
>> --
>
>Hmm, the only problem I have is the only other body of water in the house is
>a toilet! I guess I could invest in 5 gallon tank and put it on the bottom
>shelf of the tank stand. I don't imagine there should be any problem with
>weight problems from 40 or 50 lbs resting on the bottom bracket of the stand
>(for 55 g tank). It is an old stand, though...
>
>Well I guess I'll just leave things as they are for now and if the blemish
>changes I will post more pics here. The fish does have a full looking
>stomach, and eats a lot, including pecking at plants a lot, but I know that
>can be deceiving. I haven't seen any feces from him in awhile to see
>whether it looks normal. I'm actually not able to spend more than a little
>time each day with the tank right now.
>
>Thanks, and I'm sure I'll have to post on this again.
>
>dwhite
>

I like to keep my quaranteen inside the cabinet of my 75g.
If you're worried about weight, you could even go with a regular shaped, 2 1/2
g All Glass brand tank. They're great for quranteen tanks, or male Betta tanks
too! = ).

[McEve]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
t...
> Hi. My dwarf red gourami has developed a kind of bump. These pics make
> it
> look kind of smooth, but I think it was a bigger bump last night, and
> maybe
> he scraped it off from flashing. I notice that he flashes every once in
> awhile, not often though. Moreso when he's excited it seems.
>
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/album?.dir=f5ad&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/qstroker2004/my_photos
>
> Anything to be concerned about?
>
> Thanks,
> dwhite
>
>

I have seen this before, not the 'bump' in itself, but the symptoms
described in the thread together with the picture. Fairly good appetite, but
very very undernourished. When I got these symptoms in my tank it was
chillodonella, a parasite visible in the microscope my LFS have. I lost a
few from bacterial infections after the treatment and during recovery as
they had very low resistance from being so undernourished - and then
medicated on top. I had a horrible experience with this parasite... Odimor
took care of it btw.

After this incident I learned to never put a fish into my healthy community
before having it quarantined for at least 5 weeks. It's not always easy to
be able to do this though, as an extra tank costs money, not only to buy,
but to maintain as well.

[Dan White]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>
> I like to keep my quaranteen inside the cabinet of my 75g.
> If you're worried about weight, you could even go with a regular shaped, 2
1/2
> g All Glass brand tank. They're great for quranteen tanks, or male Betta
tanks
> too! = ).

Sounds even better. Maybe I'll just put a dixie cup down there!

dwhite

[Dan White]

"McEve" > wrote in message
...

> I have seen this before, not the 'bump' in itself, but the symptoms
> described in the thread together with the picture. Fairly good appetite,
but
> very very undernourished. When I got these symptoms in my tank it was
> chillodonella, a parasite visible in the microscope my LFS have. I lost a
> few from bacterial infections after the treatment and during recovery as
> they had very low resistance from being so undernourished - and then
> medicated on top. I had a horrible experience with this parasite... Odimor
> took care of it btw.
>
> After this incident I learned to never put a fish into my healthy
community
> before having it quarantined for at least 5 weeks. It's not always easy to
> be able to do this though, as an extra tank costs money, not only to buy,
> but to maintain as well.
>

Is this parasite visible in a water sample, or do you have to put a secton
of the dead fish under the scope? Anyone else think this Odimor might be
worth a try or is it probably too late already?

dwhite

[McEve]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
t...
>
> Is this parasite visible in a water sample, or do you have to put a secton
> of the dead fish under the scope? Anyone else think this Odimor might be
> worth a try or is it probably too late already?
>
> dwhite
>
>

The parasite is only visible in a microscope. The LFS needs to do a skin
scrape (is that what it's called in English?) and examine it under the
microscope. If the fish is dead you won't find any parasites as they
"abandon ship" once the fish is dead.

I lost a couple of magnificent Angels as I caught on too late of what the
problem was :(

Got it from a LFS that I haven't bought anything from since..... might be
unfair though, as they would have gotten it from one of their suppliers....