Wintering my pond

[rfm]

I have a hand built pond that measures about 7 feet by 3 feet by 1 1/2
feet deep. Each winter I drain, bring in the fish, pumps (fountain and
waterfall) and cover with a tarp to keep the snow off. Then each spring
begin anew.

This year we have a great plant of parrots feather that has exploded in
growth and we would like to winter this over.

Various sites say different solutions to this. I was planning to put
the pot at the bottom of the pond, put in a heater and cover the pond
with a tarp.

Will this work? We never had luck trying to winter plants in doors.

should I leave a pump in to keep water moving?

We live in western NY state, where snow is plentiful and typically
Dec-Feb can be below zero.

Thanks


--
rfm

[Derek Broughton]

rfm wrote:

>
> I have a hand built pond that measures about 7 feet by 3 feet by 1 1/2
> feet deep. Each winter I drain, bring in the fish, pumps (fountain and
> waterfall) and cover with a tarp to keep the snow off. Then each spring
> begin anew.
>
> This year we have a great plant of parrots feather that has exploded in
> growth and we would like to winter this over.
>
> Various sites say different solutions to this. I was planning to put
> the pot at the bottom of the pond, put in a heater and cover the pond
> with a tarp.
>
> Will this work? We never had luck trying to winter plants in doors.

I wouldn't think so. It's going to die back anyway, because it gets no
light, and it's got no tuber to store energy, so I can't see it coming back
in the spring. I have dropped PF to the bottom of a 5 foot pond, where I
know it never froze, and it hasn't survived.
>
> should I leave a pump in to keep water moving?

That would just distribute the heat over a much larger area, and raise your
electricity bill even higher.

It would be great to be able to start off the season with growing Parrot
Feather, but it's a lot cheaper to buy than your electrical bill for
keeping a heater in the pond - and I still doubt the likelihood of success.
--
derek

[Ka30P]

The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was covered
with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's tail, horsetail,
forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Heather]

Thanks to Kathy's advice I was more patient this spring. Instead of
throwing out plants, parrots feather in particular, that looked dead I left
them in the pond and by mid June growth was showing. We are in SW Ontario -
Zone 5 or 6.

BTW Kathy, did the frogs make it through? Our frog pond is 20" deep. I am
concerned the frogs will die in there. Considering draining it to force
them to move into the fish pond for the winter. It's 4' deep. Your
thoughts?

Heather



"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
>
> The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was
covered
> with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's tail,
horsetail,
> forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
>
>
> kathy :-)
> algae primer
> http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Derek Broughton]

Ka30P wrote:

>
> The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was
> covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
> tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
>
I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6, and
nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous.
--
derek

[Ka30P]

Heather wrote >>BTW Kathy, did the frogs make it through?<<

I had one lady bullfrog in the ponds last fall and she showed up again this
spring. How she made it I have no idea! The deeper pond was frozen over
completely, I lost all my koi (from not being ready for the severe winter we
had). But the bullfrog came thru. Not sure which pond she wintered over in but
she shouldn't have survived and she did!


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

[Nedra]

The parrots feather stays alive year 'round in the lotus garden. I never
do anything to that
12' pond - just wait for the lotuses, etc to start growing again. I do
think I have
a microclimate in the ponds area - approximately 40' x 15'. It's on the
north side of the
house so who knows?
..... zone maps show my area as zone 6, but I
grow so many zone 7 and up plants there.

Nedra
Lotus Garden:
www.community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> Ka30P wrote:
>
> >
> > The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was
> > covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
> > tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> > Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
> >
> I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6,
and
> nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous.
> --
> derek

[Nedra]

Note: The link I posted for the lotus garden doesn't work. Actually when
the
computer crashed I lost everything... including the links :(
Nedra

"Nedra" > wrote in message
k.net...
> The parrots feather stays alive year 'round in the lotus garden. I never
> do anything to that
> 12' pond - just wait for the lotuses, etc to start growing again. I do
> think I have
> a microclimate in the ponds area - approximately 40' x 15'. It's on the
> north side of the
> house so who knows?
> .... zone maps show my area as zone 6, but I
> grow so many zone 7 and up plants there.
>
> Nedra
> Lotus Garden:
> www.community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>
> "Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ka30P wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and
was
> > > covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
> > > tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> > > Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
> > >
> > I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6,
> and
> > nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous.
> > --
> > derek
>

[Nedra]

How tacky! Sorry folks for the multiple postings... I just found the link!
It's: http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Nedra" > wrote in message
k.net...
> The parrots feather stays alive year 'round in the lotus garden. I never
> do anything to that
> 12' pond - just wait for the lotuses, etc to start growing again. I do
> think I have
> a microclimate in the ponds area - approximately 40' x 15'. It's on the
> north side of the
> house so who knows?
> .... zone maps show my area as zone 6, but I
> grow so many zone 7 and up plants there.
>
> Nedra
> Lotus Garden:
> www.community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>
> "Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ka30P wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and
was
> > > covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
> > > tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> > > Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
> > >
> > I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6,
> and
> > nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous.
> > --
> > derek
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>> The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was
>> covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
>> tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
>> Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7. K30
>>
>I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6, and
>nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous. Derek

Key word: Tried. Parrot Feather is best left alone and even told that you
don't care if it makes it or not. ;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[RichToyBox]

I threw mine on the compost pile a few years ago. It survived the winter,
then survived the tiller tilling it into flower beds, and was worse than
wire grass as a weed in the flower beds. Not as pretty as in the pond, but
living everywhere. I am zone 7 a/b.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/index.html

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> Ka30P wrote:
>
> >
> > The whole frog bog (ten-ish inches deep) froze solid last year and was
> > covered with snow, everything came back - penneywort, lilies, lizard's
> > tail, horsetail, forget-me-not, cattails, rushes, parrot's feather.
> > Parrot's feather is usually the last to show up here in zone 7.
> >
> I tried every way I could think of to keep the parrot feather in zone 6,
and
> nothing ever worked. I'm sooooo jealous.
> --
> derek

[Derek Broughton]

Nedra wrote:

> The parrots feather stays alive year 'round in the lotus garden. I never
> do anything to that
> 12' pond - just wait for the lotuses, etc to start growing again. I do
> think I have
> a microclimate in the ponds area - approximately 40' x 15'. It's on the

Microclimate? Your pond is something like 500 miles south of the one I had
in zone 6. Zones are only based on the minimum temperature reached, and
yours probably hit the same sort of temperature mine did - but for a day
instead of two or three weeks.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

Heather wrote:

> Thanks to Kathy's advice I was more patient this spring. Instead of
> throwing out plants, parrots feather in particular, that looked dead I
> left
> them in the pond and by mid June growth was showing. We are in SW Ontario
> - Zone 5 or 6.

I was in St. Thomas. I'm getting even more jealous :-)
--
derek

[S. M. Henning]

Derek Broughton > wrote:

> Microclimate?

Microclimates are subregions of a zone that are atypical of the zone.
For example valleys are much harsher then the surrounding hills since
the cold water drains into the valleys and frosts hit harder than on the
hills (orchards are on hills). Areas near large bodies of water are
tempered by the water and have their own climate (lake effect). Areas
near large blacktop areas have residual heat from the blacktop and less
snow cover. Cities create their own microclimates with temperatures
several degrees higher and more shade and wind breaks. Areas below tall
mountains sometimes are in the path of air drainage and have roofs blown
off (near Boulder, CO). There are countless microclimates. Just because
a person lives within a USDA hardiness zone doesn't mean that describes
their growing conditions completely. I live in Zone 6, but we divide
the zone into 6a and 6b to get better definition. Also, my Zone 6 has
full sun exposure and wind exposure. Some of my neighbors have partial
shade (high shade) and wind breaks. Their gardens are much different
then mine.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

[Derek Broughton]

S. M. Henning wrote:

> Derek Broughton > wrote:
>
>> Microclimate?
>
> Microclimates are subregions of a zone ...

I know. What I was saying was that Nedra is in a zone that is considered to
be close to where I was in balmy S. Ontario. But given that she's about
500 miles straight south, the difference is not really a "microclimate".

--
derek

[[email protected]]

better. dont drop it to the bottom, just build a wooden lean too over the pond and
put plastic on it (I screw wood strips down to hold the plastic.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/winters/winter.htm

I put in a 500 watt heater from aquatic ecosystems. I dropped in a 5 GALLON bucket
filter http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/hardware.html#BUCKET filled with
polyester batting and green screening material instead of stone and trimmed the pump
back so it just broke the surface rather than jetting up into the air.
the pond was 50oF or better all winter long (zone 5) except for 1 month Jan 15-Feb 15
or so. my hardy water lilies never "went down" at all. the sun drops behind the
ugly peeling green house to the south so my pond which faces north didnt get that
much light either. A south facing pond would probably be warmer.
my fish were active all winter, I fed them all but the one month when temp was below
50o. I fed them very lightly, every other or 3rd day and checked ammonia often too.

INgrid


rfm > wrote:
>I have a hand built pond that measures about 7 feet by 3 feet by 1 1/2
>feet deep. Each winter I drain, bring in the fish, pumps (fountain and
>waterfall) and cover with a tarp to keep the snow off. Then each spring
>begin anew.
>
>This year we have a great plant of parrots feather that has exploded in
>growth and we would like to winter this over.
>
>Various sites say different solutions to this. I was planning to put
>the pot at the bottom of the pond, put in a heater and cover the pond
>with a tarp.
>
>Will this work? We never had luck trying to winter plants in doors.
>
>should I leave a pump in to keep water moving?
>
>We live in western NY state, where snow is plentiful and typically
>Dec-Feb can be below zero.
>
>Thanks



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[S. M. Henning]

Derek Broughton > wrote:

> But given that she's about
> 500 miles straight south, the difference is not really a "microclimate".

Someone 1,000 miles from you can still be in a microclimate.

The width USDA hardiness zones varies considerably just as iso's on a
topographic. In some areas gradation of climate is abrupt and in some
there is virtually no change in climate. Local peaks and valleys in the
climate profile is a microclimate wherever it is.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

[Derek Broughton]

S. M. Henning wrote:

> Derek Broughton > wrote:
>
>> But given that she's about
>> 500 miles straight south, the difference is not really a "microclimate".
>
> Someone 1,000 miles from you can still be in a microclimate.
>
> The width USDA hardiness zones varies considerably just as iso's on a
> topographic. In some areas gradation of climate is abrupt and in some
> there is virtually no change in climate. Local peaks and valleys in the
> climate profile is a microclimate wherever it is.

I know what a microclimate is. You're totally missing the point
--
derek

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>microclimate

The northern side of my house where the koi ponds are can be 10 degrees
cooler than the west or southern side, this is a microclimate according to
a class given by the Master Gardeners: "Creating Microclimates in Your
Backyard". In fact, my whole yard is a microclimate and is always 5-10
degrees cooler than the temp they record at the asphalted airport.
;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[S. M. Henning]

Derek Broughton > wrote:

> I know what a microclimate is. You're totally missing the point

I don't know your point. I only know what you said. The original
posting was:

"Nedra wrote:
> The parrots feather stays alive year 'round in the lotus garden. I never
> do anything to that 12' pond - just wait for the lotuses, etc to start
> growing again. I do think I have a microclimate in the ponds area -
> approximately 40' x 15'. It's on the north side of the house so who knows?

You replied:
Microclimate? Your pond is something like 500 miles south of the one I
had in zone 6. Zones are only based on the minimum temperature reached,
and yours probably hit the same sort of temperature mine did - but for a
day instead of two or three weeks."

You can't use an argument about how far you live from Nedra to say Nedra
doesn't have a microclimate. Nedra can live 500 miles from you and
still have a microclimate. You could have a microclimate. The two
aren't related.

I think you meant to say that Nedra lived 500 miles from you and
differences would be expected. But that has nothing to do with whether
Nedra has a microclimate. If she says she does, she probably does. She
would know better than someone who lives 500 miles away.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman