UPS for tank

[david]

We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
will blow my
lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?

[Ken H]

I am planning on installing one after I go to the next computer show. Even
if it can't keep the lights on for a long period of time, at least it will
keep the power flow steady during brown outs or spikes.

Ken

"david" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
>
> We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
> will blow my
> lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
>
>
>

[Benjamin]

I recall reading somewhere that while UPS units work well with computer
and similar equipment with power supplies (regulators?), they can cause real
trouble with aquarium related items that do not have such power drive
systems. Something about the ability of the wave forms they generate to
damage equipment if I remember right. At the time the math was well over my
head so I was only half following.
I elected to use a power converter/inverter with a line conditioner that
I plug into my car (or could use deep cycle batteries) instead. It saved me
a couple of times, and kept the refrigerator going as well.
Maybe someone here can shed more light on this.
--
--

My Web Site: http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/



"Ken H" > wrote in message
...
> I am planning on installing one after I go to the next computer show. Even
> if it can't keep the lights on for a long period of time, at least it will
> keep the power flow steady during brown outs or spikes.
>
> Ken
>
> "david" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> >
> > We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad
it
> > will blow my
> > lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[John]

>Something about the ability of the wave forms they generate to
>damage equipment if I remember right.

Thats what I read too. Especially with pumps/motors.

I've seen a DIY site that uses basically what you mentioned above, except they
used a marine battery for boats so the unit could be inside and charged by the
AC of the house.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=diy+ups+marine+battery
~John

[Philip Lewis]

(John) writes:
>>Something about the ability of the wave forms they generate to
>>damage equipment if I remember right.
>Thats what I read too. Especially with pumps/motors.

It's likely the difference between a UPS with a true sine-wave, vrs a
modified sine wave. (which i believe is a square wave)

AC power from the outlet is true sine-wave. I don't see why a UPS
with a true sine-wave would be different.


--
be safe.
flip
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[Pszemol]

"Philip Lewis" > wrote in message du...
> (John) writes:
>>>Something about the ability of the wave forms they generate to
>>>damage equipment if I remember right.
>>Thats what I read too. Especially with pumps/motors.
>
> It's likely the difference between a UPS with a true sine-wave, vrs a
> modified sine wave. (which i believe is a square wave)
>
> AC power from the outlet is true sine-wave. I don't see why a UPS
> with a true sine-wave would be different.

The problem with UPS used for a fish tank is that it usually
has too small battery to go for a long time. Also, you are
paying for a main feature you do not need in a reef tank:
UPS is Uninterruptable Power Supply - the power supplying
a personal computer cannot be interrupted because you will
loose data. A short power failure will not harm the fish tank.
So you do not care if after the power out your power supply
will start after a milisecond or a minute - important is to not
let the tank static for longer than an hour...

Instead buying large, expensive UPS dedicated to computer
use much cheaper large marine lead-acid battery together
with a small charger and power inverter. If you want the system
to switch to backup power automaticaly you can use one
relay with 120V/AC coil hooked to the mains to switch your
tank from mains to backup when the relay coil will stop being
energized by the mains voltage. With relay you will have one
short gap of missing power, probably too long for a computer
but good enough for a fish tank... This solution, maybe not
as elegant as self contained UPS will last much, much longer
than any large computer UPS...

If you are not particulary handy with electricity you may want
to check out ready made sump-pump battery backup systems
available in Home Improvement stores - they use same principle
with one difference: all components are closed in one nice
and expensive box :-)

[Timothy Tom]

"david" > wrote in message et>...
> We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
> will blow my
> lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?

Yes I have a back-up power supply for the main pump. It works for
about 15 mins before it is exhausted.

[Pszemol]

"Timothy Tom" > wrote in message om...
> "david" > wrote in message et>...
>> We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
>> will blow my
>> lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
>
> Yes I have a back-up power supply for the main pump. It works for
> about 15 mins before it is exhausted.

15 minutes? I would say your UPS is not needed at all.
You could leave it not working for 15 minutes and it would not harm the tank...

[Buzby]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:26:25 -0500, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

>"Timothy Tom" > wrote in message om...
>> "david" > wrote in message et>...
>>> We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
>>> will blow my
>>> lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
>>
>> Yes I have a back-up power supply for the main pump. It works for
>> about 15 mins before it is exhausted.
>
>15 minutes? I would say your UPS is not needed at all.
>You could leave it not working for 15 minutes and it would not harm the tank...

I have a 1400Va UPS on my reef, you must get one that is APC for it to
work properly....

I run my skimmer & 2 Powerheads through it since they are the most
important items & working it out the UPS /should/ run those 3 items
for about 8-8½ hours, one of these days I'll try running it on the
batteries just to see

I got mine for £145 off Ebay secondhand with a 1yr warranty & new
batteries fitted, the same unit in the shopps is £600 :))


Cheers Shelton.

[Timothy Tom]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message >...
> "Timothy Tom" > wrote in message om...
> > "david" > wrote in message et>...
> >> We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
> >> will blow my
> >> lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
> >
> > Yes I have a back-up power supply for the main pump. It works for
> > about 15 mins before it is exhausted.
>
> 15 minutes? I would say your UPS is not needed at all.
> You could leave it not working for 15 minutes and it would not harm the tank...


The reason that it is useful is that when the power goes off, the sump
fills with water. When the power returns, the in-sump protein skimmer
will overflow onto the cabinet floor a significant amount of water.

[Pszemol]

"Timothy Tom" > wrote in message om...
> The reason that it is useful is that when the power goes off, the sump
> fills with water. When the power returns, the in-sump protein skimmer
> will overflow onto the cabinet floor a significant amount of water.

Well... this sounds like a bad design...
What are you going to do if the power outage will last more than 15 minutes?

[Billy]

"Timothy Tom" > wrote in message
om...

|
| The reason that it is useful is that when the power goes off, the
sump
| fills with water. When the power returns, the in-sump protein
skimmer
| will overflow onto the cabinet floor a significant amount of water.

Design problem? Or too much water in the system?

A GOOD design would mean that the display can hold all the water in
the return section of your sump without overflowing. Likewise, the
sump is large enough to hold the water above the overflow. Add a
water level switch to your return pump and no matter what happens
(power fail, return pump fail, overflow fail) you have no water on
the floor.

Tell me about that skimmer? Why does it divert water to the floor
when it come back on, and not into the system?


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[Brian Lewis]

"If you want the system
> to switch to backup power automaticaly you can use one
> relay with 120V/AC coil hooked to the mains to switch your
> tank from mains to backup when the relay coil will stop being
> energized by the mains voltage.

I'm having trouble picturing the relay wiring. Can you provide a pic
or a drawing?

Thanks,
Brian

[Taegu]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message >...
> "Timothy Tom" > wrote in message om...
> > The reason that it is useful is that when the power goes off, the sump
> > fills with water. When the power returns, the in-sump protein skimmer
> > will overflow onto the cabinet floor a significant amount of water.
>
> Well... this sounds like a bad design...
> What are you going to do if the power outage will last more than 15 minutes?

Yes it was not designed well. Custom made tank, stand, protein
skimmer made out of state and shipped to me.

http://hometown.aol.com/tdtom30/tomsreef.html

When the power goes off, water drains into sump. Since the protein
skimmer sits in the sump, the water level in the skimmer rises too.
When pump restarts and bubbles start rising into the skimmer chamber,
water overflows into collection container with a capacity of about a
quart. Water overlows collection collector onto cabinet floor. Once
level in sump drops, the level in skimmer drops, and overflowing
stops. Usually probably about 1/2-1 quart of water leaks. Not a
disaster, just a little mess. Cabinet is too small to accommodate a
larger collection chamber conveniently.

[John]

Its on the 5th link down on the google link I posted previously.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64918

Scroll down about a page and a half and you'll see a schematic for the transfer
relay.
~John

[John]

>When the power goes off, water drains into sump.

How are your returns plumbed in? Many people drill a small hole in the return
just below the display tanks running water level. That way, once it drains
past the hole and hits air, the siphon is broken. The other option is check
valves, but they can stick open so you have to clean/check/replace often.

Do you have pics of your plumbing?
~John

[Pszemol]

"John" > wrote in message ...
> Its on the 5th link down on the google link I posted previously.
>
> http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64918
>
> Scroll down about a page and a half and you'll see a schematic
> for the transfer relay.

Exactly... :-) One picture is worth a thousand words ;-)

[Philip Lewis]

(Taegu) writes:
>Yes it was not designed well.
perhaps not, but it looks nice!

>Cabinet is too small to accommodate a larger collection chamber
You say that there is a hole in the concrete that allows for some
plumbing, etc.

Would this work:
1: Drill small hole at highest allowed fill level of collection chamber.

2: Use Silicone to "glue" in a small overflow tube (airline tubing
perhaps?) into the hole.
It might be better to drill in a valve of some sort, so the tubing
can be removed/replaced/cleaned

3: Run the tubing through the hole to a place where a larger collection
container can be stored.

You could also drill in the bottom of the collection chamber so
it always drains into the basement cup, which might be more convenient
to empty.

Just a thought...

Good luck!

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

[Timothy Tom]

"Billy" > wrote in message >...
> "Timothy Tom" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> |
> | The reason that it is useful is that when the power goes off, the
> sump
> | fills with water. When the power returns, the in-sump protein
> skimmer
> | will overflow onto the cabinet floor a significant amount of water.
>
> Design problem? Or too much water in the system?
>
> A GOOD design would mean that the display can hold all the water in
> the return section of your sump without overflowing. Likewise, the
> sump is large enough to hold the water above the overflow. Add a
> water level switch to your return pump and no matter what happens
> (power fail, return pump fail, overflow fail) you have no water on
> the floor.
>
> Tell me about that skimmer? Why does it divert water to the floor
> when it come back on, and not into the system?
>

I am sorry that it is difficult to visualize without seeing it. The
system is designed such that when the pump goes off, the sump does
hold all the water in the overflow box which empties into it. The
problem lies in the fact that the water level rises in the protein
skimmer bubble chamber to the same elevated level in the sump since
the skimmer sits in the sump. When the pump restarts, and bubbles
start flowing into the overfilled bubble chamber this causes a
temporary overflow out of the bubble chamber into the collection
chamber (which fills up the collection chamber and overflows this)
until the level in the bubble chamber drops as the level in the sump
drops.
Once again this is not a huge problem since before getting the UPS,
about once every six months there would be a power outtage, causing
some water to overflow into the cabinet. The majority of power
outtages last for less than 15 minutes, so I have not had any
power-failure related cabinet spills since getting the UPS.

I believe in term of control systems, that this tank is very redundant
in terms of safety control features, with both alarms, and conditional
switching of lights, heater, and chiller based on tank parameters. No
major parameter shifts in 3 years (since getting the aquacontroller),
and keeping my fingers crossed. >
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[Rich R]

Is the ups enough to not damage your lights with low voltage?





On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:36:58 GMT, "david" >
wrote:

>
>
>We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
>will blow my
>lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
>
>
>

[Rich R]

Get a generator it wont shut down in a half hour.
www.reeftanksonline.com




"Rich R" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is the ups enough to not damage your lights with low voltage?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:36:58 GMT, "david" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>We have taken a few power hits during the latest storm and I am afriad it
>>will blow my
>>lights... does anyone use and UPS on their tank ?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>