2.5 gal minibow -- betta

[Danya]

hi guys
i bought a 2.5 gal minibow yesterday. it came with a whisper
filter...that takes up too much room :\ plus i have to leave about 3
inches of the tank empty in order for the filter to run! ugh.
anyway, my betta has not had a heater before and i was thinking of
getting a (small) heater for the minibow. also, when is it safe for
me to transfer him from the 1 gal to the 2.5 gal?

TIA!

[RedForeman ©®]

|| hi guys
|| i bought a 2.5 gal minibow yesterday. it came with a whisper
|| filter...that takes up too much room :\ plus i have to leave about 3
|| inches of the tank empty in order for the filter to run! ugh.
|| anyway, my betta has not had a heater before and i was thinking of
|| getting a (small) heater for the minibow. also, when is it safe for
|| me to transfer him from the 1 gal to the 2.5 gal?
||
|| TIA!

Fill up the new tank, dechlor it, setup the gravel, anything else you're
putting in it... while running, take another tanks filter cartridge and put
in the 'new' tank, move it around to make the water murky and dirty... turn
off lights and walk away for a few hours. Return used cartridge to it's
tank. Repeat the cartridge thing a couple of times and then measure your
water to see if you're noting any nitrite...

your betta will love you for it...

--
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| ==========================
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| for any questions you may have....
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[[email protected]]

Hi Danya,
You only want to use a filter if you're planning on cycling the
aquarium. Cycling is a good idea for all fish, even bettas. One thing,
however, is you don't want to cycle the aquarium WITH the betta in it.
If you plan to do 100% water changes regularly insted of cycling the
tank then you should remove the filter altogether. Leaving a filter
running in an uncycled tank will cause mini-cycles that could
potentially poison or kill you betta with ammonia or nitrites.

[Danya]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message >...
> Fill up the new tank, dechlor it, setup the gravel, anything else you're
> putting in it... while running, take another tanks filter cartridge and put
> in the 'new' tank, move it around to make the water murky and dirty... turn
> off lights and walk away for a few hours. Return used cartridge to it's
> tank. Repeat the cartridge thing a couple of times and then measure your
> water to see if you're noting any nitrite...
>
> your betta will love you for it...

okay, i did set it up with water yesterday and put the gravel in it
(which is marine painted black gravel and it reaks of paint smell!).
and i put some gravel from my 32 gal in a knee-high nylon... but you
mean take the cartridge and actually place it in the water for a few
hours? because there's no way that cartridge will fit in that little
filter... thanks red!!

now i read somewhere, that the filter it comes with can suck up the
betta's fins. is this true?? has anyone had problems with that? i'm
sort of worried now that i read that.

[Eric Schreiber]

Danya wrote:

> okay, i did set it up with water yesterday and put the gravel in it
> (which is marine painted black gravel and it reaks of paint smell!).
> and i put some gravel from my 32 gal in a knee-high nylon... but you
> mean take the cartridge and actually place it in the water for a few
> hours? because there's no way that cartridge will fit in that little
> filter...

I think what Red is getting at is you need to get some of the nice,
yucky muck from the established tank into the new tank. How you get it
there isn't really important. Sponge squeezing are common, as is using
a handful of the old gravel. The real point is to get a starting set of
bacteria into the pristine new tank ASAP so that it can kick start the
ammonia cycle.

You don't really need a lot - clouding the water once or twice would
probably do the trick. If bacteria were designed to do anything, it was
to reproduce to accomodate the available food supply :)

> now i read somewhere, that the filter it comes with can suck up the
> betta's fins. is this true?? has anyone had problems with that? i'm
> sort of worried now that i read that.

Depends a lot on the flow level of the filter, and the length of the
fins. If it seems to be a problem you can get a sort of sponge 'sock'
(I'm sure there's a proper term, which I'm not remembering) to go
around the filter intake. That might help.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Danya]

>From: )
>Hi Danya,
>You only want to use a filter if you're planning on cycling the
>aquarium. Cycling is a good idea for all fish, even bettas. One
thing,
>however, is you don't want to cycle the aquarium WITH the betta in
it.
>If you plan to do 100% water changes regularly insted of cycling the
>tank then you should remove the filter altogether. Leaving a filter
>running in an uncycled tank will cause mini-cycles that could
>potentially poison or kill you betta with ammonia or nitrites.

oh gosh, another decision to make?!?!?!?! well, maybe it would be
better WITHOUT a filter then.

help!

[RedForeman ©®]

|| "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
||| Fill up the new tank, dechlor it, setup the gravel, anything else
||| you're putting in it... while running, take another tanks filter
||| cartridge and put in the 'new' tank, move it around to make the
||| water murky and dirty... turn off lights and walk away for a few
||| hours. Return used cartridge to it's tank. Repeat the cartridge
||| thing a couple of times and then measure your water to see if
||| you're noting any nitrite...
|||
||| your betta will love you for it...
||
|| okay, i did set it up with water yesterday and put the gravel in it
|| (which is marine painted black gravel and it reaks of paint smell!).
|| and i put some gravel from my 32 gal in a knee-high nylon... but you
|| mean take the cartridge and actually place it in the water for a few
|| hours? because there's no way that cartridge will fit in that little
|| filter... thanks red!!
||
|| now i read somewhere, that the filter it comes with can suck up the
|| betta's fins. is this true?? has anyone had problems with that?
|| i'm
|| sort of worried now that i read that.

Ok, here's two things for you....
1. If you can fit the filter in the tank, take a tupperware bowl and rinse
the filter cartridge out in the tupperware bowl then pour the water into the
tank that way...

2. Most filters allow you to pull up on the intake tube just a bit to
adjust the flow of the filter... I do this on most of my tanks to keep from
sucking babies or in this case, bettas up to the tube... You know that tube
can be used to adjust don't you?? Try it and see...

One of mine did that and pulling up the tube was one of FrankRay's
tricks....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...

[Danya]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message >...
> Ok, here's two things for you....
> 1. If you can fit the filter in the tank, take a tupperware bowl and rinse
> the filter cartridge out in the tupperware bowl then pour the water into the
> tank that way...
>
> 2. Most filters allow you to pull up on the intake tube just a bit to
> adjust the flow of the filter... I do this on most of my tanks to keep from
> sucking babies or in this case, bettas up to the tube... You know that tube
> can be used to adjust don't you?? Try it and see...

this little filter doesn't have an intake tube actually... it's like
a small black box with the filtering going up through slits in the
bottom. but it does actually have a thingy to adjust the flow, i had
set it at just a tad above the slowest, but i'm going to put it on the
slowest before i put the betta in.

but should i use the filter or just do water changes every week or 2.
which would be the best way for a lazy person (i.e., me).

change of subject....
the other day i lost my oldest guppy, Sonny Jr. :(
then today Bettie the female betta croaked!

last night i checked my levels and the ammonia was practically off the
charts. i JUST did a gravel vac. why do they die AFTER the gravel
vac and not before?! (p.s. Polly the female dwarf gourami looks like
she's about to croak too) :( HELP!

[RedForeman ©®]

|| "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
||| Ok, here's two things for you....
||| 1. If you can fit the filter in the tank, take a tupperware bowl
||| and rinse the filter cartridge out in the tupperware bowl then pour
||| the water into the tank that way...
|||
||| 2. Most filters allow you to pull up on the intake tube just a bit
||| to adjust the flow of the filter... I do this on most of my tanks
||| to keep from sucking babies or in this case, bettas up to the
||| tube... You know that tube can be used to adjust don't you?? Try it
||| and see...
||
|| this little filter doesn't have an intake tube actually... it's like
|| a small black box with the filtering going up through slits in the
|| bottom. but it does actually have a thingy to adjust the flow, i had
|| set it at just a tad above the slowest, but i'm going to put it on
|| the
|| slowest before i put the betta in.

I gotcha now... Those type of filters are ok, space savers so to speak...
same still applies, you need to seed it with bacteria from an established
tank.. no biggie...

|| but should i use the filter or just do water changes every week or 2.
|| which would be the best way for a lazy person (i.e., me).

you're so cute, admitting that you're lazy... I don't know ANYONE who is
lazy, or who will admit to it!!!!

If you really are a lazy person a filter will keep your betta alive longer
than water that needs changing and doesn't get it..

|| change of subject....
|| the other day i lost my oldest guppy, Sonny Jr. :(
|| then today Bettie the female betta croaked!
||
|| last night i checked my levels and the ammonia was practically off
|| the
|| charts. i JUST did a gravel vac. why do they die AFTER the gravel
|| vac and not before?! (p.s. Polly the female dwarf gourami looks like
|| she's about to croak too) :( HELP!

well honey?? What are you putting in that water? Remember, the vodka is for
you, the water is for them!!! Sorry about the fish... it really sucks
sometimes... but the benefits so totally outweigh the sadness...

My guess is you did a huge water change/vacuuming.... next time don't do so
much... or go so long before doing another one.... I have a day each week
where I do mine, but only a little on each tank... 10g gets 1-2in, 29g gets
3in, 55g gets 4in, and the 65 gets 10, because it's a deep tank....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...

[[email protected]]

Red,

I loved the vodka comment. Very funny!

Anyhow, I think from Danya's comments that her tanks aren't cycled. If
she's got ammonia through the roof then they are definitely not so
partial water changes wont due.

Danya, you'll have to remove the fish and keep them someplace that gets
frequent 100% water changes while you cycle the tanks. This could take
anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks but is WELL WORTH IT. Or you can try using
Bio-Spira to get the cycle rolling quicker. I don't recommend any other
bacterial additive because I haven't heard of any other that actually
work. I know with Bettas, they are extremely sensitive to ammonia. Even
as little as .2 over a short time can cause irreparable damage to their
gills and immune systems.

Your only other option is to remove the filters altogether and continue
100% water changes before any ammonia can build. This isn't really a
very good idea if you're lazy. ;-)

What is your current set up in your old tank where your betta died?
1. What size is the tank?
2. How often and how much water do you change at a time?
3. Was it cycled?
4. Do you have a filter running in it?
5. What kind and how many fish did you have in it?
6. What was you ammonia reading when you tested?
Maybe we can figure out what's going on.

[Danya]

first of all, mr. red, i don't drink vodka! :P
and i did wait too long to do a gravel vac. i probably removed 10-15%
of the water, maybe 20%. it's hard to tell. and i'm not getting my
calculator out... how often am i supposed to do gravel vacs? i
thought 10% water change weekly (which i find hard to follow through
with) and a good gravel vac every 3 weeks or so.

" > wrote in message . com>...
> What is your current set up in your old tank where your betta died?
> 1. What size is the tank?
> 2. How often and how much water do you change at a time?
> 3. Was it cycled?
> 4. Do you have a filter running in it?
> 5. What kind and how many fish did you have in it?
> 6. What was you ammonia reading when you tested?
> Maybe we can figure out what's going on.

1 and 3: well the betta died in my 32 gal tank... i've had it set up
for almost 2 months, i think i waited a week before adding fish and
none had died until now. so i dunno if the cycle was complete or not.

2: like i admitted, i'm not good at water changes. i work 2nd shift,
so basically i sleep all day, go to work, and am up til about 3 a.m.
for some reason doing a water change doesn't sound like a good idea
around 1 or 2 in the morning.

4: yes i have a filter, a whisper 40 i believe.

5: fish i had in tank--1 female betta (dead), 2 male guppies (1 dead),
1 female gourami, 5 corydoras, 1 juvenile rainbow shark, 5 neon
tetras, and 2 male swordtails

6: i have one of those "quick dip" ammonia tests. so the little strip
read as the greenest on the chart (so in other words, the highest). so
uhh i dunno. i'm not at home right now, so i couldn't tell you
exactly what it is.

when i get home tonight i'm going to do another good gravel vac. and
i pray that dear Polly isn't dead!! if you couldn't tell, i'm pretty
new to this whole aquaria thing. i now wish i would have done all
this reading and figuring things out BEFORE buying the fish. :\

[Danya]

this thing takes forever to post a message...

anyway
i just did a real good gravel vac. removed about 6 gallons of water.
took out the filter (put it in my 2.5), added some jungle fungus
eliminator (polly's fins look a bit bad) and some epsom salt.
hopefully that'll help things out.

when i got home it took me 10 minutes to find Polly! i thought for
sure she was dead. she was inside my "sunken ship" at the very top of
it so i could only see a bit of her peaking out. it appeared as
though my rainbow shark had some interest in her being there. i
couldn't tell if perhaps he was trying to eat on her or not.
(hopefully not)....

as for my male betta, he's still in the 1 gallon and has made a huge
bubble nest around the air pump line. hehe. but the 2.5 is sitting
right next to him and i can tell he can't wait to jump in there! (how
long should i wait??????)

PHEW!

[[email protected]]

Hey Danya,

Thanks for answering those questions, I now understand exactly what's
going on in your aquarium.

Well, there are some pretty big hurtles you have ahead, but don't fear
because you're not the first to deal with it.

First and foremost, your 32 gal tank is not cycled. The problem is you
don't want to keep fish in the tank while it cycles because you'll be
exposing them to such severe toxins that they can suffer serious
physical damage that they may or may not recover from. The other fish
that have already died likely were killed by the ammonia poisoning. The
betta can be kept in a clean container alone without filtration or an
air-stone for the time being, but you'll have to find something to do
with your other fish. Do you have another large aquarium you can house
them in while your tank cycles? The only other thing I can think of is
to return them to the fish store?

A lot of new fish owners don't realize that they must cycle their
aquarium before buying fish and that it takes 4-8 weeks to do it with
careful day to day monitoring and testing every single day.
Unfortunately this leads to a lot of returned fish but returning fish
is much better then allowing them to suffer in a cycling tank.

What you need to do is take all the fish out and begin testing your
water everyday and recording your results. Usually you have to add
ammonia to the tank to get started but your fish have already done
that, so now all you have to do is test and record. Right now you have
lots of beneficial bacteria living in your tank gobbling up the
ammonia. As the bacteria reproduce they dispel "nitrites" (also very
toxic to fish) So as you test your water everyday you'll see the
ammonia beginning to fall and the amount of nitrites beginning to rise.
Soon your ammonia will be at zero and you'll have very high levels of
toxic nitrites. Then another type of bacteria living in the water will
gobble up the nitrites. These bacteria give off "nitrates". As they
consume toxins you'll begin to see the level of nitrites begin to fall
and the level of nitrates will rise. Nitrates are much less toxic to
fish as long as the amount is low. The reason you do partial (20%)
water changes every week is to keep the nitrates down. Since you
haven't gone through this process yet with your tank your ammonia is
skyrocketing and your fish are dying. This process will take several
weeks but EVERY aquarium owner has to do it. (You may hear of
exceptions with people who keep bettas in small tanks but they have to
change 100% of the water every week or more to keep the cycle from
starting) You will know when your tank is ready for fish because the
ammonia level will stay at zero, your nitrite level will be at zero and
your nitrate levels will slowly rise throughout the week, but you'll
keep them down by doing a partial water change. Once a tank is cycled
it can stay cycled for many years. You will have to continue to test
weekly for nitrates and every few weeks for ammonia an nitrates to make
sure you're still on track.

Right now, the most important thing you can do is get those fish into
clean water. At the risk of sounding harsh, I have to tell you that the
ammonia in that tank is literally burning their gills so badly that
they may never be able to breathe properly again and it can severely
shorten their life span.

The other issue is when selecting fish for your aquarium make sure they
are compatible first. Bettas shouldn't be housed with gouramis, guppies
or sharks.

Now, I know this sounded like a lot of bad news, but hang in there.
Fish keeping is really rewarding once you learn the ropes. Once you are
able to provide a clean stable home for them they can live for years.

Also, if you still don't feel like you fully understand the nitrogen
cycle, just say so and we can point you to some really good resources.

[Jim85CJ]

"this thing takes forever to post a message..."
What "thing" are you using?

Danya wrote:

> this thing takes forever to post a message...
>
> anyway
> i just did a real good gravel vac. removed about 6 gallons of water.
> took out the filter (put it in my 2.5), added some jungle fungus
> eliminator (polly's fins look a bit bad) and some epsom salt.
> hopefully that'll help things out.
>
> when i got home it took me 10 minutes to find Polly! i thought for
> sure she was dead. she was inside my "sunken ship" at the very top of
> it so i could only see a bit of her peaking out. it appeared as
> though my rainbow shark had some interest in her being there. i
> couldn't tell if perhaps he was trying to eat on her or not.
> (hopefully not)....
>
> as for my male betta, he's still in the 1 gallon and has made a huge
> bubble nest around the air pump line. hehe. but the 2.5 is sitting
> right next to him and i can tell he can't wait to jump in there! (how
> long should i wait??????)
>
> PHEW!

[Danya]

" > wrote in message . com>...
> Hey Danya,
>
> Thanks for answering those questions, I now understand exactly what's
> going on in your aquarium.

thanks for all the useful info! my tank has been set up for probably
6 weeks already... i do have a 10 gal. out in the garage. i don't
think i cleaned out the gravel when i emptied it, but i could be
wrong. so in other words, that tank probably won't be cycled either.
so what do i do now?! the thing is, only my female dwarf gourami
appears to be suffering. the corys, neons, swordtails, and guppies
all seem to be doing really well...and the shark of course (which the
LFS girl told me would be fine in my tank)... until he got big of
course. gosh, now i feel like a bad mommy! but i certainly can't
take Hal back! the others i wouldn't mind quite as much, but Hal was
1 of my first fish that i got back in March...the other livebearer
males pick on him, that's why i'd almost be glad to get rid of them.
but i would miss my cute little cories to death! well, i could always
put hal in the 2.5 minibow (and keep the male betta in the 1 gal)
until my 32 gal is cycled and take the rest to the LFS for store
credit. so what would be the best thing to do? wait out the next 2
weeks or so and see how they do, or take them into the LFS? wahhh!!!
:( not a good b-day present seeing as how my b-day is this Sunday.

oh and the betta i had in my 32 gal. was a female and she died. but i
do have a male a 1 gallon.

[Danya]

Jim85CJ > wrote in message >...
> "this thing takes forever to post a message..."
> What "thing" are you using?

just the groups in general. seems like my posts take longer than others though!

[Peter Ashby]

> wrote:

>
> A lot of new fish owners don't realize that they must cycle their
> aquarium before buying fish and that it takes 4-8 weeks to do it with
> careful day to day monitoring and testing every single day.
> Unfortunately this leads to a lot of returned fish but returning fish
> is much better then allowing them to suffer in a cycling tank.

Good advice, but I routinely cycle tanks with fish. My favourites are
neon tetras. 4 or 5 of them will cycle a tank quite happily. They seem
to be tough little blighters too, I have never lost one when cycling a
tank, no disease either. Mind you, neither have I done tests comparing
the longevity of such tetras. But theiy're cheap and i usually want them
anyway.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

[Peter Ashby]

Danya > wrote:

> " > wrote in message
. com>...
> > Hey Danya,
> >
> > Thanks for answering those questions, I now understand exactly what's
> > going on in your aquarium.
>
> thanks for all the useful info! my tank has been set up for probably
> 6 weeks already... i do have a 10 gal. out in the garage. i don't
> think i cleaned out the gravel when i emptied it, but i could be
> wrong. so in other words, that tank probably won't be cycled either.

It'll be the best you've got. The bacteria in that gravel will still be
there, just dormant. Grab that gravel, wash it, in COLD water, just to
remove the crud and use that to start the cycle. In fact use the whole
tank as there are undoubtedly bacteria on the glass too.

BTW your tale of vacuuming the gravel and getting an ammonia spike made
me wonder about how much you are feeding these fish? Uneaten food
sitting in the gravel will rot, when you disturb the gravel you release
the products of that decomposition including but not limited to ammonia.
So when you get things set back up don't feed more than the fish eat in
5-10min, and not more than once a day.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

[Peter Ashby]

Danya > wrote:

> Jim85CJ > wrote in message
>...
> > "this thing takes forever to post a message..."
> > What "thing" are you using?
>
> just the groups in general. seems like my posts take longer than others
though!

That will be fault of your isp, some are slower than others to
disseminate posts.

Peter

--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

[Vicki S]

Danya,
Instead of returning your fish, just do more frequent water changes.
This will cause the cycle process to take longer, but the toxic levels
will be minimized. Go to your LFS and ask for a nice handful of gravel
from one of their tanks and add it to yours (put it in a stocking if you
don't like the colour of it) for the bacteria. Test daily and don't
overfeed. You could also add a few low light plants to the tank (if you
don't have live plants already) to help out by consuming the fish waist.

Good luck!
Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

Visit me on line at
http://shamrock4u.250free.com

To send e-mail delete webtv.net and add msn.com
(put to Vicki in subject line or my spam filter will discard)

[Jim85CJ]

What tool do you use?

Danya wrote:

> Jim85CJ > wrote in message >...
>
>>"this thing takes forever to post a message..."
>>What "thing" are you using?
>
>
> just the groups in general. seems like my posts take longer than others though!

[[email protected]]

I wasn't going to get into cycling with fish in Danya's case because
she doesn't have fish that could survive a cycle well. Also, I
personally don't recommend cycling with fish at all. I think more and
more people are moving away from it. Even if you're fish are lucky
enough to survive the cycling process they still suffer the effects
(burned gills, lowered immune system, etc.) Maybe I'm kind of a hippy,
but I don't like the idea of disposable fish.

Danya,
If it were me, I'd move hal to the 10 gal and the male into the 2.5 gal
and keep those tanks pristine with 100% water changes while you cycle
the 32 gal. I'd bring the others back to the fishstore, or move them
into the 10 gal temporarily with Hal. You'll have to test teh 10 gal
everyday and keep up with those water changes since it'll be severely
overstocked for a short time while you cycle the big tank.

BTW, You're not a bad fishmommy. Most of us make mistakes at the
beginning while we learn. God knows I did.

[Danya]

(Peter Ashby) wrote in message >...
> Danya > wrote:
> > just the groups in general. seems like my posts take longer than others
> though!
>
> That will be fault of your isp, some are slower than others to
> disseminate posts.
>
> Peter

stupid AOL

anyway, thanks for the advice everyone.

i don't believe i am overfeeding. i feed my fish twice daily and only
enough for them to consume in probably less than 5 min. i feed my
corys once a day with a tablet of tetramin.

i have to try and remember what else i wanted to reply to...

i would absolutely love to get some live plants to help out. right
now i have fake "silk" plants. what type of plant do you recommend
starting out with? i would like something hardy that won't rot and
die on me. but will that darn rainbow shark eat the plants? he
grazes on my fake ones all day long (as far as i know).

all of the fish seem to be in good health except for Polly the female
dwarf gourami. she's eating well and swimming around but she looks
horrible.

(right now all my fish are fighting over the tetramin tablet for the
corys...idiots! lol)

thanks for the help everyone, i obviously need it.

[Danya]

Jim85CJ > wrote in message t>...
> What tool do you use?
>
> Danya wrote:
>
> > Jim85CJ > wrote in message >...
> >
> >>"this thing takes forever to post a message..."
> >>What "thing" are you using?
> >
> >
> > just the groups in general. seems like my posts take longer than others though!

well i use aol at home, but most of my posts i do while at work. i'm
not sure what we have here.... it's on internet explorer....not a
dial up like i have at home :P

[Peter Ashby]

Danya > wrote:

>
> i would absolutely love to get some live plants to help out. right
> now i have fake "silk" plants. what type of plant do you recommend
> starting out with? i would like something hardy that won't rot and
> die on me. but will that darn rainbow shark eat the plants? he
> grazes on my fake ones all day long (as far as i know).

java fern, tough as old boots. I've just thinned a pile in our tank and
it doesn't have enough light to grow anything else.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country

[Vicki S]

>I wasn't going to get into cycling with fish
>in Danya's case because she doesn't have
>fish that could survive a cycle well. Also, I
>personally don't recommend cycling with
>fish at all. I think more and more people
>are moving away from it. Even if you're
>fish are lucky enough to survive the
>cycling process they still suffer the effects
>(burned gills, lowered immune system,
>etc.) Maybe I'm kind of a hippy, but I don't
>like the idea of disposable fish.

That is why I said to get a handful of gravel from her LFS. In the biz
it is known as instant cycle. With Danya's low fish load she should be
just fine as well as her fish. I also mentioned that she test daily and
do more water changes. With her low fish load it will not take long for
the bacteria in that gravel to reproduce in her tank and in a short time
all will be well. Lets face it, damage has already been done to her
fish. I would also like to state that when adding new fish, do it
slowly (one or two at a time) a week or so apart so that the bacteria
has enough time to reproduce enough to handle the new fish load.

As always YMMV. I have been doing this for over 20 years so call me a
dinosaur if you wish, but it works.

Vicki


"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow fond of it."

~ Robert E. Lee~

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[[email protected]]

yeah, I agree java ferns can't die (ok, maybe they can, I just haven't
seen it)

Also, Java lace, anubias, and crypts do well in a veriety of water
conditions and in low light.

[Danya]

(Peter Ashby) wrote in message >...
> Danya > wrote:
>
> >
> > i would absolutely love to get some live plants to help out. right
> > now i have fake "silk" plants. what type of plant do you recommend
> > starting out with? i would like something hardy that won't rot and
> > die on me. but will that darn rainbow shark eat the plants? he
> > grazes on my fake ones all day long (as far as i know).
>
> java fern, tough as old boots. I've just thinned a pile in our tank and
> it doesn't have enough light to grow anything else.
>
> Peter

thanks peter. maybe this weekend i can get out and find some.