sand substrates

[Aquarijen]

Hi All,
I have a couple quick questions about builders sand, a.k.a. "leveling sand"
that you can buy at the home improvement store.
It is C-33 - what does that mean?
The data sheet says it is at least 99% SiO2 in the form of silica and
crushed quartz. I was attracted to the sand because it looked to have the
right size grains and a nice uniform color - very pretty.
I poured vinegar on it and it did not bubble at all.
So I put a couple scoops into a 5 gallon bucket (probably 5 inches on sand
in the bottom of the bucket). Then I poured water in the bucket and I was
amazed at the opacity of the water. The water was a peach color.
Subsequent rinsings turned the water clear. Why was it so peach colored - I
was wondering if there was maybe red clay in there? Could the yellow-peach
color be the tiny perccentage of non-Si02? Is this normal?

Thanks!
Jen

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Aquarijen wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have a couple quick questions about builders sand, a.k.a. "leveling sand"
> that you can buy at the home improvement store.
> It is C-33 - what does that mean?
> The data sheet says it is at least 99% SiO2 in the form of silica and
> crushed quartz. I was attracted to the sand because it looked to have the
> right size grains and a nice uniform color - very pretty.
> I poured vinegar on it and it did not bubble at all.
> So I put a couple scoops into a 5 gallon bucket (probably 5 inches on sand
> in the bottom of the bucket). Then I poured water in the bucket and I was
> amazed at the opacity of the water. The water was a peach color.
> Subsequent rinsings turned the water clear. Why was it so peach colored - I
> was wondering if there was maybe red clay in there? Could the yellow-peach
> color be the tiny perccentage of non-Si02? Is this normal?
>
> Thanks!
> Jen

Silicates will play havock in your tank, you will get a brown algae (diatoms)
bloom in no time at all! Silicates will leach from this type of sand!

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly Geezer From The Freezer > Spake Unto All:

>Silicates will play havock in your tank, you will get a brown algae (diatoms)
>bloom in no time at all! Silicates will leach from this type of sand!

No.
While it is true that very small amounts of silica will leach from the
sand and from the glass, diatoms are very, very, rarely limited by
silicates in coastal seawater, and virtually never in freshwater.
Unless your aquarium is using nothing but pure RO, they're not going
to be silica limited, and any addition of silica will make no
difference at all.

Also I might point out that there are basically two types of sand one
might use in aquaria: there's carbonated-based sand (limestone), which
buffers pH to 7.5-7.7, and there's silicate-based sand which is almost
entirely inert, does not affect pH, but does leak trace amounts of
silica. Silicate-based sands are by far the most common in freshwater
aquaria.

[Happy'Cam'per]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message > No.
> While it is true that very small amounts of silica will leach from the
> sand and from the glass, diatoms are very, very, rarely limited by
> silicates in coastal seawater, and virtually never in freshwater.
> Unless your aquarium is using nothing but pure RO, they're not going
> to be silica limited, and any addition of silica will make no
> difference at all.
>
> Also I might point out that there are basically two types of sand one
> might use in aquaria: there's carbonated-based sand (limestone), which
> buffers pH to 7.5-7.7, and there's silicate-based sand which is almost
> entirely inert, does not affect pH, but does leak trace amounts of
> silica. Silicate-based sands are by far the most common in freshwater
> aquaria.
>
>

A agree with MC on this. I have a Tanganyika tank with beach sand that is
renowned for high silicates and I have zero algae problems with this setup.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[Aquarijen]

"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message
...
> "Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message > No.
>> While it is true that very small amounts of silica will leach from the
>> sand and from the glass, diatoms are very, very, rarely limited by
>> silicates in coastal seawater, and virtually never in freshwater.
>> Unless your aquarium is using nothing but pure RO, they're not going
>> to be silica limited, and any addition of silica will make no
>> difference at all.
>>
>> Also I might point out that there are basically two types of sand one
>> might use in aquaria: there's carbonated-based sand (limestone), which
>> buffers pH to 7.5-7.7, and there's silicate-based sand which is almost
>> entirely inert, does not affect pH, but does leak trace amounts of
>> silica. Silicate-based sands are by far the most common in freshwater
>> aquaria.
>>
>>
>
> A agree with MC on this. I have a Tanganyika tank with beach sand that is
> renowned for high silicates and I have zero algae problems with this
> setup.
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

I have read the pros and cons of having silica sand as a substrate - I don't
want to raise my pH (it is not a cichlid tank) but need sand for my fire eel
(he digs a lot and I'm afraid he'll get hurt on my chunky gravel) and I like
how it looks. So I'm sold on silica sand...

That said, how many times did you all have to rince your sand - mine is very
yellow-peach colored. I called the industrial studies department of my old
university and they said the yellow color was probably the "fines" in the
sand and that it would wash out. Anybody else come accross this?
Thanks!
Jen

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Happy'Cam'per wrote:
> A agree with MC on this. I have a Tanganyika tank with beach sand that is
> renowned for high silicates and I have zero algae problems with this setup.
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Diatoms feed on silicates, phosphates and nitrates period!
You must have awesome lighting or none of the above in your
tank.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly Geezer From The Freezer > Spake Unto All:

>Diatoms feed on silicates, phosphates and nitrates period!
>You must have awesome lighting or none of the above in your
>tank.

All aquaria using tapwater have the silicates, and most aquaria have
all three.

That silicates lead to diatom blooms is a myth.

I wish it did, because then it would be easy for me to get diatoms to
feed my shrimp larvae, but it doesn't.

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Thusly Geezer From The Freezer > Spake Unto All:
||
||| Diatoms feed on silicates, phosphates and nitrates period!
||| You must have awesome lighting or none of the above in your
||| tank.
||
|| All aquaria using tapwater have the silicates, and most aquaria have
|| all three.
||
|| That silicates lead to diatom blooms is a myth.
||
|| I wish it did, because then it would be easy for me to get diatoms to
|| feed my shrimp larvae, but it doesn't.

Here's my $.02, I've had it, but only in a new tank... Fresh clean glass =
high silicates... After the slime coating covered it, it would recess...
2ndly.. a friend bought a used tank, USED, and with low lighting he had
diatoms.. upped the amount of light, and it turned green...

I don't think it's a myth, but you've been around the block more than me, so
if you say so....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...
| http://www.geocities.com/trx350x_rider/aquaria.html

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Red, you are right in that low lighting (or wrong type of lighting)
helps diatoms bloom. Strong full spectrum lighting seems to
help green algae grow (and plants obviously). Either way excessive
silicates, phosphates and nitrates in low lighting will cause
a fast bloom of diatoms, in the right light that is the same =

for algae...in my experience



"RedForeman =A9=AE" wrote:
> =

> || Thusly Geezer From The Freezer > Spake Unto All:
> ||
> ||| Diatoms feed on silicates, phosphates and nitrates period!
> ||| You must have awesome lighting or none of the above in your
> ||| tank.
> ||
> || All aquaria using tapwater have the silicates, and most aquaria have=

> || all three.
> ||
> || That silicates lead to diatom blooms is a myth.
> ||
> || I wish it did, because then it would be easy for me to get diatoms t=
o
> || feed my shrimp larvae, but it doesn't.
> =

> Here's my $.02, I've had it, but only in a new tank... Fresh clean glas=
s =3D
> high silicates... After the slime coating covered it, it would recess..=
=2E
> 2ndly.. a friend bought a used tank, USED, and with low lighting he had=

> diatoms.. upped the amount of light, and it turned green...
> =

> I don't think it's a myth, but you've been around the block more than m=
e, so
> if you say so....
> =

> --
> | RedForeman =A9=AE fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighte=
r!!!
> | =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
> | 2003 TRX450ES
> | 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> | '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> | =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
> | =F8=A4=B0`=B0=A4=F8,=B8=B8=B8,=F8=A4=B0`=B0=A4=F8, =B8=B8=B8,=F8=A4=B0=
`=B0=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=B0`=B0=A4=F8,=B8=B8=B8,=F 8=A4=B0`=B0=A4=F8,=B8=B8=
,=F8=A4=B0`=B0=A4=F8
> | ><((((=BA>`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8. ><((((=BA>=
=B7=B4=AF`=B7. , .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.. ><((((=BA>
> | for any questions you may have....
> | Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...
> | http://www.geocities.com/trx350x_rider/aquaria.html

[RedForeman ©®]

| Red, you are right in that low lighting (or wrong type of lighting)
| helps diatoms bloom. Strong full spectrum lighting seems to
| help green algae grow (and plants obviously). Either way excessive
| silicates, phosphates and nitrates in low lighting will cause
| a fast bloom of diatoms, in the right light that is the same
| for algae...in my experience

I never could figure out what was causing it, but silicates and phosphates
are the leading culprits.... my water has zero nitrAtes, but I had low
lights too....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| Gmail - the ultimate in disappointment...
| http://www.geocities.com/trx350x_rider/aquaria.html

[Geezer From The Freezer]

"RedForeman =A9=AE" wrote:
> =

> | Red, you are right in that low lighting (or wrong type of lighting)
> | helps diatoms bloom. Strong full spectrum lighting seems to
> | help green algae grow (and plants obviously). Either way excessive
> | silicates, phosphates and nitrates in low lighting will cause
> | a fast bloom of diatoms, in the right light that is the same
> | for algae...in my experience
> =

> I never could figure out what was causing it, but silicates and phospha=
tes
> are the leading culprits.... my water has zero nitrAtes, but I had low
> lights too....

Red, well my nitrates are always within good levels and I keep getting di=
atoms.
I did get a phosphate test kit and that was low too - so leads me to beli=
eve
that my crappy lights and silicates from the tap water are to blame, eith=
er
that or my test kits are dogs*** :P

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "RedForeman ©®" > Spake Unto All:

>| Red, you are right in that low lighting (or wrong type of lighting)
>| helps diatoms bloom. Strong full spectrum lighting seems to
>| help green algae grow (and plants obviously). Either way excessive
>| silicates, phosphates and nitrates in low lighting will cause
>| a fast bloom of diatoms, in the right light that is the same
>| for algae...in my experience
>
>I never could figure out what was causing it, but silicates and phosphates
>are the leading culprits.... my water has zero nitrAtes, but I had low
>lights too....

It seems to me that what you guys are really saying is that when the
light is too weak for green algae, then diatoms may still grow. And
that may well be true.
That's not the same as saying that diatoms will bloom if there's
silicates.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> It seems to me that what you guys are really saying is that when the
> light is too weak for green algae, then diatoms may still grow. And
> that may well be true.
> That's not the same as saying that diatoms will bloom if there's
> silicates.

Nope but if there are very low silicates, phosphates and Nitrate and low
lighting
diatoms will not bloom as easily. Add either of those into the equation and
there
you go!!

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Geezer From The Freezer wrote:


> Silicates will play havock in your tank, you will get a brown algae (diatoms)
> bloom in no time at all! Silicates will leach from this type of sand!

Your tank is made mainly from silica, glass is a mixture of SiO2 with
various other oxides (Na, K, Ca, B) mixed in to lower the melting point.
Also, silicic acid is a common compound in water.

Phosphate and nitrate are more of a problem, though.