Water bottles, fish death

[Eric Schreiber]

After months of trouble free operation of three different tanks, I've
got a small disaster on my hands today.

In my three-gallon Eclipse, I have an assortment of plnats, some pond
snails to help keep algae under control, and two Threadfin Rainbows,
male and female.

The female is dead today, and the male is well on his way. This is very
sudden (they were fine last night) and there is no sign at all of
disease. The male is swimming, but mostly upside down, and banging into
things.

Likely culprit, last night's 50% water change. Ammonia, nitrate and
nitrite are all well within safe levels, temperature is 78F. The water
was treated, as always, with Seachem Prime.

The only thing that changed is the bottles I'm using to store new
water. My old two-litre pop bottles were getting pretty beat up and
decrepit, so I bought a couple of gallons of Hinckley Springs bottled
water. Let me stress that I didn't use the Hinckley water in my tanks.
I just used the bottles for preparing my new water.

The label says the bottles contained pure, filtered water, ozonated
(acts as a preservative, and disapates quickly), with minerals added
for flavor. Now, since all that water was emptied out, replaced with
tap water which was treated with Prime, I can't see how any lethal
amount of what should be harmless chemicals could have come from the
bottles, but I'm stuck for alternative causes.

I've done another 50% water change on the affected tank, but I don't
think that will help the male. Assuming that something is horribly
wrong with the water in his tank, I've moved him to a completely
different tank. The shock might be bad for him, but something about his
regular tank is definitely killing him, so I figure this is his best
chance to survive. I doubt it'll make a difference, but it's worth a
try.

I'm really baffled as to what the cause of the problem might be.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

Eric Schreiber wrote:

> The female [threadfin rainbow] is dead today, and the male
> is well on his way.

Apparently my moving him to another tank was a good idea. After what
must have been a tough night, he's alive and moderately well today. A
little beat up and rough around the edges, but who wouldn't be after
swimming upside down all night.

I'm wondering if maybe something that I can't measure is affecting the
tap water here. I know that last year TYNK had a similar problem with
the tap water quality changing dramatically.



--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Vicki S]

>I'm wondering if maybe something that I
>can't measure is affecting the tap water
>here. I know that last year TYNK had a
>similar problem with the tap water quality
>changing dramatically.

That is a very good possibility. We take such good care of our fish and
watch out for their every need that it is sometimes hard to believe that
the water could be the problem.

Vicki


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[Happy'Cam'per]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> Eric Schreiber wrote:

> I'm wondering if maybe something that I can't measure is affecting the
> tap water here. I know that last year TYNK had a similar problem with
> the tap water quality changing dramatically.

Yes I REMEBER Tynk's problem, BGA right? She had some harsh words to say
about my advice to her (sorry tynk :)
Eric, either its the water you used (hence the referal to Tynks problem)or
this:
I had this happen to me with threadfins aswell, unfortunately I lost ALL of
mine! It was CO2 related.
Could it be that your problem could be O2 related (as in not enough).
You say you changed water last night, perhaps the new water was'nt
oxygenated enough and the little that was left in solution was gobbled up by
the plants & fish during the night (do you have plants in this tank?)
Thats the only thing i can think of! I doubt it was from the new bottles you
used (surely). Anyhow, sorry for your loss but well done on the saving of
the male. Good luck, hope you can work it out!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[Eric Schreiber]

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

> I had this happen to me with threadfins aswell, unfortunately I lost
> ALL of mine! It was CO2 related.

I take it they're extremely sensitive to CO2 (and probably related pH)
issues?

> Could it be that your problem could be O2 related (as in not enough).
> You say you changed water last night, perhaps the new water was'nt
> oxygenated enough and the little that was left in solution was
> gobbled up by the plants & fish during the night (do you have plants
> in this tank?)

I do have plants. Several small Java ferns, a sprig of water wisteria,
and a couple strands of Najas. I would like to think that there is
adequate oxygenation for two fish, as the Eclipse tank (and bio wheel)
provides good surface agitation, but you might well be right.

> Thats the only thing i can think of! I doubt it was
> from the new bottles you used (surely).

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less likely it seems. I've since
put the bottles through a couple cycles of the hottest water I can get
from my tap to encourage anything that might want to leach out to do
so, but I'm probably spinning my wheels.

> Good luck, hope you can work it out!

For the short term, at least, looks like I've got myself a plant-only
three gallon tank :)



--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Water bottles, fish death
>From: "Eric Schreiber" ericat ericschreiber dot com
>Date: 9/29/2004 1:01 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Eric Schreiber wrote:
>
>> The female [threadfin rainbow] is dead today, and the male
>> is well on his way.
>
>Apparently my moving him to another tank was a good idea. After what
>must have been a tough night, he's alive and moderately well today. A
>little beat up and rough around the edges, but who wouldn't be after
>swimming upside down all night.
>
>I'm wondering if maybe something that I can't measure is affecting the
>tap water here. I know that last year TYNK had a similar problem with
>the tap water quality changing dramatically.

Eric,
Simply make a phone call to your local water dept. Ask if any work had been
done on the lines or any added chlorine or chloramines (more than usual).
I have one of my towns public works guy that lives on my block. I have
explained to him that I'm heavily into the fish hobby and would REALLY
appreciate it if he would let me know when they increased certain chemicals,
etc.
Never heard a word. = (
However, there may be some hope, as my daughter has befriended his...so who
knows.

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)

>Subject: Re: Water bottles, fish death
>From: "Happy'Cam'per"
>Date: 9/29/2004 6:45 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >

>Yes I REMEBER Tynk's problem, BGA right? She had some harsh words to say
>about my advice to her (sorry tynk :)

Thanks...but I get over things right away.
I'm good like that. Once it's over it's forgotten about and I move on. = )
I've had to bleach every tank in my house several times, and it's still in the
water...but I am controling it.
That's all I can do.
I increased water changes and scrub it off anything it covers...at the kitchen
sink. (that is tank decor)...but then I think to myself...am I just continuing
it by letting the BGA go down the drain.....
::ponders some more:::

[ManWorld42]

(TYNK 7) wrote in message >...
> >Subject: Re: Water bottles, fish death
> >From: "Eric Schreiber" ericat ericschreiber dot com
> >Date: 9/29/2004 1:01 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >Eric Schreiber wrote:
> >
> >> The female [threadfin rainbow] is dead today, and the male
> >> is well on his way.
> >
> >Apparently my moving him to another tank was a good idea. After what
> >must have been a tough night, he's alive and moderately well today. A
> >little beat up and rough around the edges, but who wouldn't be after
> >swimming upside down all night.
> >
> >I'm wondering if maybe something that I can't measure is affecting the
> >tap water here. I know that last year TYNK had a similar problem with
> >the tap water quality changing dramatically.
>
> Eric,
> Simply make a phone call to your local water dept. Ask if any work had been
> done on the lines or any added chlorine or chloramines (more than usual).
> I have one of my towns public works guy that lives on my block. I have
> explained to him that I'm heavily into the fish hobby and would REALLY
> appreciate it if he would let me know when they increased certain chemicals,
> etc.
> Never heard a word. = (
> However, there may be some hope, as my daughter has befriended his...so who
> knows.

Befriend his what? Fish? Anyway, what is BGA?

[TYNK 7]

(snipped)
>Subject: Re: Water bottles, fish death
>From: (ManWorld42)
>Date: 10/3/2004 6:34 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>


>> However, there may be some hope, as my daughter has befriended his...so who
>> knows.

>Befriend his what? Fish? Anyway, what is BGA?

Re-read it. It makes sense. (His daughter).
BGA is Blue Green Algae...which isn't an algae at all, but actually a bacteria.
It looks like a dark green with a blue-ish hue to it, or simply dark green
covering of slime. It can take over your tank in no time if left alone.
I like to refer to it as the Alien slime from hell.
The only cure is to kill it with Erythromycin antibiotics.

[Eric Schreiber]

TYNK 7 wrote:

> Simply make a phone call to your local water dept.

I have a bit of trouble with that, since my schedule is now almost
perfectly reversed from the rest of the world. They're not open when
I'm awake :)

But it is a good idea that I should try to follow up on.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Water bottles, fish death
>From: "Eric Schreiber" ericat ericschreiber dot com
>Date: 10/4/2004 7:39 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>TYNK 7 wrote:
>
>> Simply make a phone call to your local water dept.
>
>I have a bit of trouble with that, since my schedule is now almost
>perfectly reversed from the rest of the world. They're not open when
>I'm awake :)
>
>But it is a good idea that I should try to follow up on.
>
>
>--
>Eric Schreiber
>www.ericschreiber.com

Eric have you tied calling after hours to see of they have an answering
machine?
If so, you could exaplin that you have odd hours, etc and what Q's you need
answered and if they could leave a message on your answering machine.
Just a thought.
I did this when I repeatedly called trying toget the head of our water
dept...he was *always out of the office* when I woud call.
The woman who answers the phone hates me because I was also friends with a
common neaighbor of ours, boy was she jealeous. So I believe the reason for him
"being out of the office" no matter what time I called, was all her.
The one time I called after hours, got the machine, he called the next day,
first thing in the morning.
I happened to ask him what times he's usually in the office and he said from
like 8am-3pm. Nice. I didn't say a word about the lady who asnwers the phone
and doesn't like me.
::thinking Karma::
Anyway, it's worth a shot for you to try it.