High Ammonia -- Fish are dying -- Please Help

[alamo]

Hi all,

I recently set up my fish tank about 3 weeks ago. All of a sudden, 3
days ago fishes started dying in the tank due to high level of
ammonia. I have to change water 2 times a day now just to bring down
the ammonia. I just started using Ammo-Rock. I got the 10Lb. bag.
But how much should i use ? I have a 25-gallon tank. I have already
put half bag of rocks into the tank, with some in the filter. How
long should i keep these rocks in my tank ? And is there any thing i
can do to bring down the ammonia instead of me changing water twice a
day ??

Many thanks,

alamo

[Amateur Cichlids]

"alamo" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> I recently set up my fish tank about 3 weeks ago. All of a sudden, 3
> days ago fishes started dying in the tank due to high level of
> ammonia. I have to change water 2 times a day now just to bring down
> the ammonia. I just started using Ammo-Rock. I got the 10Lb. bag.
> But how much should i use ? I have a 25-gallon tank. I have already
> put half bag of rocks into the tank, with some in the filter. How
> long should i keep these rocks in my tank ? And is there any thing i
> can do to bring down the ammonia instead of me changing water twice a
> day ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> alamo

Does the tank have filtration? Does it have enough biological filtration to
keep up with the bio load of your fish? Did you introduce the fish from day
one or was the tank cycled somewhat prior to adding fish?
Do you have access to anyone with tanks who may have an extra sponge filter
running they can loan you or perhaps some filter floss you can use in your
tank to get your bacteria culture going?
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

[Tom Puskar]

How many fish do you have in the tank?

Regardless of the answer, I'd stop feeding them for a while until you can
get the water in balance.

If the filter has been running for three weeks, you should be developing a
reasonable biomass by now unless the ammonia is killing the bacteria as
well. Are you pretreating the water you use for your changes to remove
chlorine, if present? If not, you're probably stunting the growth of your
biomass.

Check the pH and adjust it to close to 7.0 My guess is that it is way off.

10 lbs of ammorock in a 25 gallon tank seems like a lot. Assuming you have
good water flow over the rocks, I'm surprised that hasn't reduced the
ammonia level. BTW what is the ammonia level? I have several tanks where
the level is routinely between 6-8 ppm and the fish survive. They are no
doubt stressed but I haven't lost any.

I'd move the fish temporarily (even if you have to put them into a tub with
aeration) and change the water entirely with conditioned water--don't change
the filter elements. Be sure to charge the fresh water with Cycle or some
other source of bacteria (stuff from someone else's tank would be good) then
add back the fish and cross your fingers.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others with more experience than me will also
chime in.

Good luck.

Tom Puskar
Howell, NJ



"alamo" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> I recently set up my fish tank about 3 weeks ago. All of a sudden, 3
> days ago fishes started dying in the tank due to high level of
> ammonia. I have to change water 2 times a day now just to bring down
> the ammonia. I just started using Ammo-Rock. I got the 10Lb. bag.
> But how much should i use ? I have a 25-gallon tank. I have already
> put half bag of rocks into the tank, with some in the filter. How
> long should i keep these rocks in my tank ? And is there any thing i
> can do to bring down the ammonia instead of me changing water twice a
> day ??
>
> Many thanks,
>
> alamo

[Szaki]

That's my suggestion also. It is hard to get rid of ammonia, take the fish
out and completely change the water in the tank, clean filters, make sure
every thing is right, PH etc...
With the new tank up and running feed the fish very little, long as they
survive for a few weeks and monitor ammonia close.

Julius

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
. ..
> How many fish do you have in the tank?
>
> Regardless of the answer, I'd stop feeding them for a while until you can
> get the water in balance.
>
> If the filter has been running for three weeks, you should be developing a
> reasonable biomass by now unless the ammonia is killing the bacteria as
> well. Are you pretreating the water you use for your changes to remove
> chlorine, if present? If not, you're probably stunting the growth of your
> biomass.
>
> Check the pH and adjust it to close to 7.0 My guess is that it is way
off.
>
> 10 lbs of ammorock in a 25 gallon tank seems like a lot. Assuming you
have
> good water flow over the rocks, I'm surprised that hasn't reduced the
> ammonia level. BTW what is the ammonia level? I have several tanks where
> the level is routinely between 6-8 ppm and the fish survive. They are no
> doubt stressed but I haven't lost any.
>
> I'd move the fish temporarily (even if you have to put them into a tub
with
> aeration) and change the water entirely with conditioned water--don't
change
> the filter elements. Be sure to charge the fresh water with Cycle or some
> other source of bacteria (stuff from someone else's tank would be good)
then
> add back the fish and cross your fingers.
>
> Hope this helps. I'm sure others with more experience than me will also
> chime in.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Tom Puskar
> Howell, NJ
>
>
>
> "alamo" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I recently set up my fish tank about 3 weeks ago. All of a sudden, 3
> > days ago fishes started dying in the tank due to high level of
> > ammonia. I have to change water 2 times a day now just to bring down
> > the ammonia. I just started using Ammo-Rock. I got the 10Lb. bag.
> > But how much should i use ? I have a 25-gallon tank. I have already
> > put half bag of rocks into the tank, with some in the filter. How
> > long should i keep these rocks in my tank ? And is there any thing i
> > can do to bring down the ammonia instead of me changing water twice a
> > day ??
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > alamo
>
>

[Donald K]

alamo wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently set up my fish tank about 3 weeks ago. All of a sudden, 3
> days ago fishes started dying in the tank due to high level of
> ammonia. I have to change water 2 times a day now just to bring down
> the ammonia. I just started using Ammo-Rock. I got the 10Lb. bag.
> But how much should i use ? I have a 25-gallon tank. I have already
> put half bag of rocks into the tank, with some in the filter. How
> long should i keep these rocks in my tank ? And is there any thing i
> can do to bring down the ammonia instead of me changing water twice a
> day ??

OK, keep up the water changes.

Do you have gravel or anything in the tank that might be trapping
uneaten food?

What sort of dechlorinator are you using? EXACTLY what sort of ammonia
test kit are you using?

If you can get AmQuel it will knock down the ammonia, but keep it
available for the biobuggies. It will however mess with some kinds of
ammonia test kits.

How many fish do you have in 25 gallons. If the number is 3 or more,
you're asking for trouble in any case.

-Donald

--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
....
>
> If you can get AmQuel it will knock down the ammonia, but keep it
> available for the biobuggies. It will however mess with some kinds of
> ammonia test kits.
Um...what kinds would that be? the two-reagents-yellow-to-green kind
or the one-reagent-clear-to-brownish kind?
Or the strip-with-pads kind? Or some kind I've never heard of?

I ask because I've been using the first two kinds along with a LOT
of Amquel, Amquel+, and NovAqua in a new-ish 20gallon tank with a
Fluval-104 and 2 juvenile pearlscales, each < 2".

It's been running for 6 weeks now, and I'm _still_ having to do
fairly big water changes every 2-3 days to keep the ammonia to
acceptable levels.
I've been taking measurements (ammonia/nitrites/nitrates) all
through the cycling process, and I don't understand what I'm seeing.
At first, it was all as expected: after a week or two I was getting
measurable nitrites, then nitrates a week later, and now nitrites
have dropped to zero. But all along, ammonia has measured high.
Just yesterday, 4 days after a 50%PWC, I showed 1.0/0.0/5.0 and
I'm flummoxed. This makes sense only if the ammonia is a false
reading. But it's consistent using two different ammonia tests.

And finally, how come I don't get screwed up readings using the
very same test kits on my older 55gallon tank? I use the same
chemicals (both amquels & novaqua), and get text-book readings,
0/0/5.0 every week to 10 days for over two years now.

Hmmm..it just occured to me that the big tank gets a lower
protein food than the 20G. But I try really hard not to
overfeed, since I know that way lies madness. Or at least
foul water.

I'm going nuts, precisely what I expected to get away from
by taking up the hobby of raising goldfish. :-)

Gunther

PS: I've maintained the Subject: line intact, but in fact
my fish are not dying.

[Donald K]

Gunther wrote:

>> If you can get AmQuel it will knock down the ammonia, but keep it
>> available for the biobuggies. It will however mess with some kinds of
>> ammonia test kits.
> Um...what kinds would that be? the two-reagents-yellow-to-green kind
> or the one-reagent-clear-to-brownish kind?
> Or the strip-with-pads kind? Or some kind I've never heard of?

Your wish, Herr Gunther, is my command...

http://www.novalek.com/kpd51.htm

"COMPATIBILITIES
Use caution when adding liquid AmQuel to water that has a poor buffer
reserve (as indicated by problems maintaining a stable pH). Using
AmQuel in these conditions can cause a sudden lowering of pH. To
prevent a pH drop, use either AmQuel Plus Buffers or Amquel+. AmQuel
may affect the dyes in certain types of cotton fabrics. This happens
for the same reason that Ammonia test kits using the Nessler reagents
do not work with AmQuel or AmQuel+. These products reduce the coloring
agents used in the Nessler reaction test kits, and apparently in a very
small selection of cotton based fabrics.


CONTRAINDICATIONS: AmQuel is compatible to use with all water quality
test kits except for the ammonia test kit that uses Nessler reagents
that read in shades of amber or yellow, and the oxygen kit that uses
Winkler reagents. Residual AmQuel and its reaction products are
incompatible with the Nessler and Winkler-type test reagents, resulting
in false, high ammonia and low oxygen concentration readings. All other
types of test kits produce accurate test results, such as ammonia test
kits using salicylate-type reagents. Kordon's AquaTru Test Kit #35970
for salt water and #35980 for fresh water are recommended for accurate
test results. AmQuel will temporarily (for approximately 12 hours)
lower redox. (For more information see KPD-80. "About Conditioners")

"

--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> Your wish, Herr Gunther, is my command...
Ha! If only!

>
> http://www.novalek.com/kpd51.htm

This does indeed seem to explain it.
I'm still a bit confused by the fact that I have used both
Nessler & salicylate tests and gotten consistent readings,
but that may have been while there was legitimately high
ammonia present. Armed with this new-to-me info, I'll
know what to look out for at least.

Rhetorical question: why don't test manufacturers place such
simple to understand explanations on their packaging?
Would it be so hard for AquaPharm to print "(salicylate-type)"
somewhere on the box? Or for Kordon to print
"AmQuel is compatible to use with all water quality test kits
except for the ammonia test kit that uses Nessler reagents...
other types of test kits produce accurate test results,
such as ammonia test kits using salicylate-type reagents."
on the Amquel bottle?

I'm certain there's at least one $ in the answers.

Thanks bunches. Watch alt.binaries.aquaria for pix of my
darling pearlscales sometime this week.
I think I've determined that short-tailed varieties make
the most fun pets: they're forced to move their tails
faster to swim, which enhances the puppy-dog effect.

Gunther

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> says...
> > Your wish, Herr Gunther, is my command...
> Ha! If only!
>
> >
> > http://www.novalek.com/kpd51.htm
>
> This does indeed seem to explain it.
> I'm still a bit confused by the fact that I have used both
> Nessler & salicylate tests and gotten consistent readings,
> but that may have been while there was legitimately high
> ammonia present. Armed with this new-to-me info, I'll
> know what to look out for at least.

Further confusion and frustration.
I've been using the salicylate-type test all along, and
it's the one giving me high ammonia readings.
For the curious, for freshwater,
Nessler reagent: yellow -> zero/low; greener -> higher
salicylate type: clear -> zero/low; yellow/amber -> higher

Rats.

Gunther