Does Fungus = Death?

[Dan White]

I mentioned the other day I had a big black neon tetra that had an abrasion
on its side, which now appears white and fluffy. Someone said it sounds
like a fungus. Not having a quarantine tank, what are my options for a 55
gal tank, sparsely populated as yet? Is this fish a goner unless I treat
the whole tank with something? Any suggestions?

Thanks. BTW, the dwarf gourami I had mentioned previously and posted pics
on died suddenly. It didn't have any fungus like the other one, and it
seems this fish had problems/parasites from the fish store. RIP you nipply
little *******!

dwhite

[NetMax]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
et...
> I mentioned the other day I had a big black neon tetra that had an
abrasion
> on its side, which now appears white and fluffy. Someone said it
sounds
> like a fungus. Not having a quarantine tank, what are my options for a
55
> gal tank, sparsely populated as yet? Is this fish a goner unless I
treat
> the whole tank with something? Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks. BTW, the dwarf gourami I had mentioned previously and posted
pics
> on died suddenly. It didn't have any fungus like the other one, and it
> seems this fish had problems/parasites from the fish store. RIP you
nipply
> little *******!
>
> dwhite
>


As far as I know, fungus is a naturally occurring group of organisms
which normally do not affect healthy fish. For a fish to display
symptoms of fungus (white thread-like hairs), there usually needs to be
i) an open wound and ii) poor water conditions and/or the fish are
stressed (depressed or overworked immune system). This is why fish
wounds typically heal without any intervention from us (good water and
the fish is otherwise healthy and able to fight off fungal spores), and
also why sometimes you can have a fungal attack on only one fish (and all
the others are oblivious to it). I have the impression that some fish
are more prone to fungus (ie: Black Mollies in unsalted water), while
others are only very rarely affected (ie: young cichlids). Gouramis and
Tetras seem more susceptible than average.

Generally, since fungus is already everywhere, one option is to treat
only the afflicted fish. Can you float a 2 or 3g 'goldfish' bowl in your
55g? Alternately treat the entire tank. Note that some of these fungal
medications will a) turn your water fluorescent green and b) cost far
more than a Black tetra on a 55g scale.

An important caveat is your identification might be off. There are
bacterial infections which can look like garden-variety fungus,
especially around the mouth. This is why the preferred choice is to
quarantine, so when you guess wrong and it gets worst, you didn't waste
too much money on meds and you have more time to address the main tank
because you removed the disease's host out (sometimes reducing the
concentration/strength of pathogens). FWIW, your's does sound more like
the typical fungus though. hth

--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dan White]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> et...
> > I mentioned the other day I had a big black neon tetra that had an
> abrasion
> > on its side, which now appears white and fluffy. Someone said it
> sounds
> > like a fungus. Not having a quarantine tank, what are my options for a
> 55
> > gal tank, sparsely populated as yet? Is this fish a goner unless I
> treat
> > the whole tank with something? Any suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks. BTW, the dwarf gourami I had mentioned previously and posted
> pics
> > on died suddenly. It didn't have any fungus like the other one, and it
> > seems this fish had problems/parasites from the fish store. RIP you
> nipply
> > little *******!
> >
> > dwhite
> >
>
>
> As far as I know, fungus is a naturally occurring group of organisms
> which normally do not affect healthy fish. For a fish to display
> symptoms of fungus (white thread-like hairs), there usually needs to be
> i) an open wound and ii) poor water conditions and/or the fish are
> stressed (depressed or overworked immune system). This is why fish
> wounds typically heal without any intervention from us (good water and
> the fish is otherwise healthy and able to fight off fungal spores), and
> also why sometimes you can have a fungal attack on only one fish (and all
> the others are oblivious to it). I have the impression that some fish
> are more prone to fungus (ie: Black Mollies in unsalted water), while
> others are only very rarely affected (ie: young cichlids). Gouramis and
> Tetras seem more susceptible than average.
>
> Generally, since fungus is already everywhere, one option is to treat
> only the afflicted fish. Can you float a 2 or 3g 'goldfish' bowl in your
> 55g? Alternately treat the entire tank. Note that some of these fungal
> medications will a) turn your water fluorescent green and b) cost far
> more than a Black tetra on a 55g scale.
>
> An important caveat is your identification might be off. There are
> bacterial infections which can look like garden-variety fungus,
> especially around the mouth. This is why the preferred choice is to
> quarantine, so when you guess wrong and it gets worst, you didn't waste
> too much money on meds and you have more time to address the main tank
> because you removed the disease's host out (sometimes reducing the
> concentration/strength of pathogens). FWIW, your's does sound more like
> the typical fungus though. hth
>

Very informative Netmax, and very much appreciated. Thanks. I'll look into
the goldfish bowl quarantine, or maybe break down and get one of those
little tanks, and some meds.

dwhite

[Dick]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:28:27 GMT, "Dan White"
> wrote:

>"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
>> "Dan White" > wrote in message
>> et...
>> > I mentioned the other day I had a big black neon tetra that had an
>> abrasion
>> > on its side, which now appears white and fluffy. Someone said it
>> sounds
>> > like a fungus. Not having a quarantine tank, what are my options for a
>> 55
>> > gal tank, sparsely populated as yet? Is this fish a goner unless I
>> treat
>> > the whole tank with something? Any suggestions?
>> >
>> > Thanks. BTW, the dwarf gourami I had mentioned previously and posted
>> pics
>> > on died suddenly. It didn't have any fungus like the other one, and it
>> > seems this fish had problems/parasites from the fish store. RIP you
>> nipply
>> > little *******!
>> >
>> > dwhite
>> >
>>
>>
>> As far as I know, fungus is a naturally occurring group of organisms
>> which normally do not affect healthy fish. For a fish to display
>> symptoms of fungus (white thread-like hairs), there usually needs to be
>> i) an open wound and ii) poor water conditions and/or the fish are
>> stressed (depressed or overworked immune system). This is why fish
>> wounds typically heal without any intervention from us (good water and
>> the fish is otherwise healthy and able to fight off fungal spores), and
>> also why sometimes you can have a fungal attack on only one fish (and all
>> the others are oblivious to it). I have the impression that some fish
>> are more prone to fungus (ie: Black Mollies in unsalted water), while
>> others are only very rarely affected (ie: young cichlids). Gouramis and
>> Tetras seem more susceptible than average.
>>
>> Generally, since fungus is already everywhere, one option is to treat
>> only the afflicted fish. Can you float a 2 or 3g 'goldfish' bowl in your
>> 55g? Alternately treat the entire tank. Note that some of these fungal
>> medications will a) turn your water fluorescent green and b) cost far
>> more than a Black tetra on a 55g scale.
>>
>> An important caveat is your identification might be off. There are
>> bacterial infections which can look like garden-variety fungus,
>> especially around the mouth. This is why the preferred choice is to
>> quarantine, so when you guess wrong and it gets worst, you didn't waste
>> too much money on meds and you have more time to address the main tank
>> because you removed the disease's host out (sometimes reducing the
>> concentration/strength of pathogens). FWIW, your's does sound more like
>> the typical fungus though. hth
>>
>
>Very informative Netmax, and very much appreciated. Thanks. I'll look into
>the goldfish bowl quarantine, or maybe break down and get one of those
>little tanks, and some meds.
>
>dwhite
>
I would try more frequent water changes. Unless more than one of your
fish is effected, I would be slow treating the tank. Meds are strong
chemicals in most cases. I do have a Q tank, but often just
separating a suspect fish and doing several 20% water changes weekly
will allow the fish to recover. Cleaner water and less stress are
probably the healing factors. I like to add Melafix when I am not
sure of the nature of the problem.

dick

[Dan White]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...

> >
> I would try more frequent water changes. Unless more than one of your
> fish is effected, I would be slow treating the tank. Meds are strong
> chemicals in most cases. I do have a Q tank, but often just
> separating a suspect fish and doing several 20% water changes weekly
> will allow the fish to recover. Cleaner water and less stress are
> probably the healing factors. I like to add Melafix when I am not
> sure of the nature of the problem.
>

Are you suggesting to separate the fungus fish and replace water to benefit
the others, or is this fish likely to recover simply through changing water?
I know they are cheap fish, but I'd rather not lose an otherwise nice fish
if possible.

dwhite

[Nikki Casali]

Dan White wrote:
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>I would try more frequent water changes. Unless more than one of your
>>fish is effected, I would be slow treating the tank. Meds are strong
>>chemicals in most cases. I do have a Q tank, but often just
>>separating a suspect fish and doing several 20% water changes weekly
>>will allow the fish to recover. Cleaner water and less stress are
>>probably the healing factors. I like to add Melafix when I am not
>>sure of the nature of the problem.
>>
>
>
> Are you suggesting to separate the fungus fish and replace water to benefit
> the others, or is this fish likely to recover simply through changing water?
> I know they are cheap fish, but I'd rather not lose an otherwise nice fish
> if possible.

Can you try a methylene blue dip?

http://www.petsforum.com/novalek/kpd28.htm

Obviously, this may stress the fish further. I did give an angelfish a
10 second MB dip at 50 ppm for superficial fungus which seemed to strip
it almost completely away. Some of the fungus returned a week later, but
I then used something called Esha 2000 -
http://www.eshalabs.com/esha2000.htm - which started solving the
problem within 24 hours.

Nikki

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 01:42:47 GMT, "Dan White"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Dick" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> >
> >> I would try more frequent water changes. ...

<snip>

> A long story, but my inclination is to make more water changes when I
> suspect a problem. I separate when I think I know what to do. It is
> a "do no harm" attitude. I have seen several fish recover without
> treatment.
>
> Just my opinion, but that is what these groups are about.
>
> dick

More than opinion (imo ;~), I think it's good husbandry and
scientifically valid. In any body of water, contagions travel easily
through water to all the fish, so a fish's immune system is normally very
active. Their probability of developing the correct immunity depends in
part, on the exposure concentration starting low (gives them more time),
and water changes will do just that (decreases the concentration of
disease attacking them). Many external contagions can be controlled by
aggressive water changes (ie: non-stop cycling through UV filter, or
automatic water changer with drilled drains). Ich for example has a
free-swimming stage which would be flushed down the drain in an
aggressive continuous water change system. Keep their water clean and
let their immune system do the job it was designed for. The problem is
that aquariums tend to favour disease propagation because of the small
water volume, and the fish have no where to go. Aggressive continuous
water-change systems are beyond the scope of most hobbyists, but
sometimes good results can be obtained by aggressive manual changes,
usually not as a cure to the disease, but stalling the progression of the
disease enough for the fish to stay healthy long enough to build its own
defence.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dick]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 01:42:47 GMT, "Dan White"
> wrote:

>"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>
>> >
>> I would try more frequent water changes. Unless more than one of your
>> fish is effected, I would be slow treating the tank. Meds are strong
>> chemicals in most cases. I do have a Q tank, but often just
>> separating a suspect fish and doing several 20% water changes weekly
>> will allow the fish to recover. Cleaner water and less stress are
>> probably the healing factors. I like to add Melafix when I am not
>> sure of the nature of the problem.
>>
>
>Are you suggesting to separate the fungus fish and replace water to benefit
>the others, or is this fish likely to recover simply through changing water?
>I know they are cheap fish, but I'd rather not lose an otherwise nice fish
>if possible.
>
>dwhite
>

No fish is cheap. It is alive. I don't like losing any fish. I have
high hope for the curative value of good water quality.

If you are sure it is fungus and have an appropriate treatment plan,
then separation saves the community exposure. I have had individual
fish that had problems such as a growth or obvious swim bladder
problems that I have put into quarantine for months. They survived in
the Q tank until I needed the tank to treat a couple of mollies. They
then survived months more in community tanks.

I think one of the values of a Q tank is its low population, less
stress, but also cleaner water. As to the frequent water changes, I
am a believer that water quality is paramont in fish health. I
received 6 Clown Loaches one time and had them in the 75 gallon
community tank before I saw they had Ich. At the time I had no Q
tank, so I had to treat the tank. Only two of the Loaches got better,
I put the other 4 down. It puzzled me that none of the community fish
acquired the Ich. I noticed that the two that did get better were
healthier looking. I conjectured that my own fish were also
healthier. Obviously there was Ich in my tank, but there has never
been a flair up.

A long story, but my inclination is to make more water changes when I
suspect a problem. I separate when I think I know what to do. It is
a "do no harm" attitude. I have seen several fish recover without
treatment.

Just my opinion, but that is what these groups are about.

dick

[Dan White]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...

>
> A long story, but my inclination is to make more water changes when I
> suspect a problem. I separate when I think I know what to do. It is
> a "do no harm" attitude. I have seen several fish recover without
> treatment.
>
> Just my opinion, but that is what these groups are about.
>

Thanks Dick and Nikki. I had a look at the fish on Friday and it appeared
that the fungus "lump" was mostly gone. I wonder if these growths can get
knocked off, and then regrow. Anyway I'm going to do some more aggressive
water changes over this next month, and maybe try a dip if the fungus grows
back.

dwhite