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View Full Version : Re: Initial Impressions: Via Aqua CC25 Chiller - long


Bomad
July 19th 03, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the review. I too recently bought the same type of chiller.
Initially the unit brought my 110 tank down to 80 deg F without problems and
held it there for about a week. I left for a 2 week vacation and when I got
back the water temp had risen to 86 deg F. The chiller and pump were on but
I noticed that I had reversed the intake and outtake of the chiller.
Corrected same and am now waiting to see if it makes a difference.


"CJImbach" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello all,
>
> Please excuse me if this is not the sort of thing welcome on
> rec:aquaria, but over on alt.coffee we often post our initial and
> advanced impressions of new toys when we buy them - here then is mine:
>
> Since I decided to take the plunge into mini-reefdom from the land of
> nano- and micro-reefs, I have been looking for a small chiller that
> will give me a 5-10 degree f pulldown on a 100 gallon system. When I
> bought the one horse chiller for the Angel tank years ago, the state
> of the art at that time was Teflon lined copper or silver coils and a
> modular flow-thru frame of PVC. That one has served brilliantly for
> years but requires a medusa to keep the temps stable; state of the art
> now is smaller, quieter, lighter, more efficient, and far cheaper.
>
> On the market today, as far as I can tell, is the largest variety of
> 1/4 hp and smaller chillers that has ever been seen: There are
> thermoelectric chillers that offer nearly silent operation at the cost
> of absolute efficiency; traditional large and powerful compressor
> models from the old guard of CSL, AquaLogic, Techlima, etc. and
> finally a new and innovative breed of compressor chillers like the JBJ
> and the Via Aqua that promise quiet operation and titanium HX's with
> built in temp control in very small and inexpensive packages. I had
> decided I wanted one of these.
>
> I am lucky enough to live in an area full of LFS's and supply houses
> and was able to look at many of the options in this category first
> hand. To my eyes, the JBJ is pretty top-of-the heap as far as quality
> and solid construction go. The Aqua Medic's also look really good,
> and the Via Aqua CC25 was so cheap I had to take a look.
>
> After playing with the three of them locally, I decided to go with the
> Via Aqua from LiquidCooling.com (they also have an ebay presence that
> offers their products cheaper than the web store), at less than $300,
> it was a heck of a deal.
>
> Via Aqua is the brand name of Commodity Axis, a consortium that
> sources aquarium stuff from Asia and rebrands it for a variety of
> fairly high-end companies here is the US - one Sacramento, CA-based
> company comes to mind immediately. Their stuff typically comes with
> terrible documentation, lousy packaging, and inaccurate/un-useful
> product specs - but their stuff is usually very well made and is
> priced so far below the competition that it begs to be given a second
> look. such is the case with the CC25.
>
> The box arrived so badly beaten out of shape by UPS that the chiller
> had fully unseated itself from the form-fitting styro. The tubing
> connectors had punched through the foam and the power cord was
> sticking partially out of the box. The CC25 includes a 16-foot length
> of shaded 3/4" tubing that also serves as extra cushioning in the box
> - thank goodness. The strap that the box was sealed with had sunck so
> far into the box that it had a full 3" clearence at its biggest gap.
>
> I removed the chiller from the box and set it up on my play bench for
> inspection - it arrived in perfect shape although a completely
> different color from the CC25 on the instruction manual - I got gray
> and navy, the manual shows white and rainbow. The power switch is a
> VERY NICE water-proofed detent switch, mounted next to the 12 amp 250
> volt fuse and a spec sheet with so many spelling errors that I laughed
> out loud: "Max Cirile" and "Pure Titanium Euaporator" were my
> favorites. I was further amused by the disagreement between the
> outside labeling and the labels inside the machine. The compressor is
> marked 6.8 amps, the label on the outside of the chiller reads 2.05
> amps; a licensee of Mitsubishi manufacturers the components in China.
> Flow direction is clearly marked and the hose clips are those
> brilliant screw-on types that work so well on the Magnum disconnects.
> The large LCD display shows 1/2 degree f accuracy and the controls
> appear easy to operate.
>
> I set up the chiller with a 2000 lph pump in a 5 gallon mixing barrel
> I keep for lugging coral around, topped it with water, and powered the
> pump on. I read through the manual very carefully (all three salient
> pages) and powered the machine on. It started beeping loudly and
> furiously. No where in the blasted manual did it say this thing
> beeped! Powered it off and rifled through the documentation. On a
> 1/4 sheet of chartreuse paper tucked into the box is an addendum:
> Press Set after turning on to set temp.
>
> OK - great documentation!
>
> I powered it back to, lots of beeping, pressed Set, silence.
> Ahhh..and the display read 65. Adjusted the temp down to 50 degrees
> and a couple of minutes later the chiller kicked on and within 5
> minutes had the water down to an accurate 50 degrees f!
>
> So I put the little chiller on my big tank - 90 gallons - that is
> undergoing pressure testing right now and it was at an ambient 65 as
> well. In less than 2 hours it was running at 50 degrees. Wow, that
> is some serious chilling power in such a small package! Now the tank
> is unlit, has only air-lifts in it, etc. so there are no additional
> sources of heat to which may have accounted for the quick drop in temp
> but I was still impressed.
>
> Overall build quality is quite high. Internally the HX is beautifully
> made and covered with thick insulation. The cables are covered in
> fiberglass and the BIG fan is nicely balanced. When the machine is on
> it is VERY quiet - much quieter than my peltier/fan assist ice plug
> bank. The sound of the water pump was louder than the compressor.
>
> I will write more as I learn more about this little thing. I am going
> to skid mount it so that I can shuttle it from tank to tank in hot
> weather is necessary and then keep it in the garage most of the time
> since it only gets hot here in spurts.
>
> Hope this was at all helpful, I know I always look for something like
> this before I make a purchase.
>
> Best!
> -Jesse

CJImbach
July 26th 03, 07:23 PM
"Bomad" > wrote in message >...
> Well swapping in and out did not help. Sytem crapped out after about three
> weeks. I will be sending it in for service.


Well hmmm,

So I have noticed that my chiller is not keeping the temp down as much
as I would have liked. I am hoping that my chiller is not heading the
way yours did.

When I was temp testing the pull down power for the initial review, I
did not have the MH lights on yet; the chiller was simply pulling down
from ambient+pump and other heat inputs (and did so very easily). The
same day I turned the lights on for the first time (2x 175 10K Ushios)
was also the first day of real summer and the house was also hotter
inside. The supposedly 1/4 to 1/5 HP chiller, running all day was
only able to slow the raise in temp from 80 to 83 f over 14 hours.

FWIW, the tank is a 24" deep x 5' long x 18" wide bullnosed glass tank
with a custom cherry cabinet and canopy. Both the canopy and lid are
tight fititng - the only openings in either being 2 holes 3" in
diameter for cords to run through. The chiller sits outside the
cabinet, at the back and a fair distance from any walls and runs ~300
gph (an aquaclear 4000) through 2 4' lengths of 3/4 tubing positioned
at either end of the 24" long sump.

I am trying to think of a way to increase the effectivness of the
chiller. I have decided to raise the canopy further from the tank
(increasing distance of bulbs from water to 3") and I am going to try
to figure out where to install some fans.

The system right now is way too noisy for long term, so I also need to
drop the racket somehow also.

Suggestions? Thoughts?
Ciao,
-Jesse

Marc Levenson
July 27th 03, 02:45 AM
Speakling of heat, I turned off my $6 fan from Walmart two nights ago. The tank was at 77F,
and it seemed rediculous to keep the fan running all night. Surely the heater would have to
kick on to avoid any further chilling.

I keep my house at 75F, and we've been breaking 100F lately. (ugh!) Anyway, I was working
all day Friday and forgot all about that fan. Look at the tank and it was at 86F!!!! The
only reason I noticed was because when I lifted the canopy, a ton of heat poured out. (330w
VHO). Turned the fan back on, and this morning I was back at 77F again.

The amazing thing to me is that everything in the tank looked fine even after the sauna
treatment.

I'm not going to mess with the fan again. <grin>

Marc


richard reynolds wrote:

> I would like to know more about your setup before giving advice, it seems your setup is
> holding in more heat than it should be, or something else is broken
>
> at 112gallons and only 2 175w MH lights I suspect a 3" fan could take care of that heat
> over that much water. while my tank is no longer setup that way, I did have a 37T ran with
> more lighting than you have posted for your 110, including the 2 175w MH bulbs, some PC
> over the tank, the incandescent over the refugium lots of pumps and such. and used a TEC
> based chiller and a fan to keep it cool
>
> i live in SoCal so the summers here also reach the 90's easily
>
> --
> richard reynolds
>

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

Dragon Slayer
July 27th 03, 05:24 AM
> The amazing thing to me is that everything in the tank looked fine even
after the sauna
> treatment.




Marc I keep a 29 grow out tank (the one your ric's came out of) with no fan
and it has a 400w MH 10" above it, the tank temp is between 90 and 91 with
the only noticeable difference between it and other tanks is a faster growth
rate in all that live in the tank............algae's included. the only
worry I had was the low O2 levels associated with the higher temps, I eased
my mind here by using a Mag 12 closed loop which gives plenty of circulation
and gas exchange by keeping the surface agitated. the Mag 12 also upped the
temp by 3 in and of itself and its ran external.


kc

CJImbach
July 28th 03, 02:44 AM
"richard reynolds" > wrote in message >...
> I would like to know more about your setup before giving advice, it seems your setup is
> holding in more heat than it should be, or something else is broken]]

Well here's what I know:

I was curious how big this thing was - including the sump. The bull
nose has really thrown me for a loop (even though I know the volume of
a cylinder is pi r squared x height /2 x whatever cu in are in a
gallon etc…).

Pic of tank: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessetank.jpg
(the pic was taken immediately after adding the LS)
Pic of sump: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessesump.jpg
(the pic of the sump shoes some foam, this is before the PS was
installed)
Pic of canopy: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessecanoly.jpg
(the pic was taken during broad daylight, reflectors resting on
invisible glass braces)


So I designed this thing a few years ago when I was a poor college
student and needed a fantasy distraction one finals-study-time. When
I had the nickels stacked up to have it made, I looked around till I
found a guy willing to build it. Without me knowing, he outsourced
the job to a team in Hong Kong and shipped over in a really cool
custom-formed styro case. I picked it up at SFO with the BF, it
weighs about 500 lbs dry. Since so much of my plan was not followed,
I got the whole thing for a MUCH reduced price <sigh> I just hate
compromising dreams. Oh, and when I got the thing, it had not been
finished. So I had to tote the thing up to my parents' house where I
took over dads' spray booth and put 7 coats of polyurethane on it over
1 week.

The glass is 3/4" thick and 25" tall and 12' long, bent in half at a
9" internal radius at one end. A hole was drilled in the bottom (not
my spec) at the radius point for a return bulkhead.
At the back of the tank is the overflow with a 2" hole drilled in the
bottom that runs to the sump. Inside the tank is:
- 1x 400 GPH AquaClear 4000
- 1x 200 GPH TAM Internal Filter (temporarily, for mechanical
filtration)

The cabined is made of 1" HDF with cherry veneer and it weighs a TON.
The plinth and top are 1 1/2" thick; the 6 internal braces are each 2"
x 3" and the bullnose portion of the tank is additionally supported by
a solid 1" panel top to bottom.

The ballast (which is warm) is inside the cabinet, as is the 1000 VA
UPS (which is also warm), an 18 LPM air pump (which is warm), and
three big powerheads:
- 1x 800 GPH CA2200 for tank return
- 1x 700 GPH AquaVia (running the skimmer: Aqua Clear MPS150)
- 1x 400 GPH AquaClear 4000 to chiller

There is also a 200-watt heater in the box on a shelf.

The canopy is also made of 1" HDF with veneer and slides down over the
glass and fits like a condom, the lip slightly overlapping the
decorative copper (yes, I know) 2" band. The thin top panels are
removable and I typically have them louvered for heat dissipation.
The tank is internally braced 4" down from the top with 5/8" x 3"
glass strips siliconed into a square in the middle of the tank. The
water just touches the glass at the high points and the Spider
Reflectors for the MH's rest on the top of the glass (well, they are
mounted to the canopy, but tips rest on the glass bracing).
Essentially the water is just above the bottom of the copper band; the
HM bulbs are just below the top.

When totally assembled, the whole thing looks pretty damned cool, I
have to say, but this heat retention issue is getting serious. I
don't want to stock this tank till I can be assured of temp stability.
I waited till summer to stock it for this reason.

Eventually I want to transition my micro reef in my bedroom into the
big tank and turn it it into a refugium – it already matches (bent
glass 16 gallon jobbie with custom canopy and stand) so the whole
setup would be seamless looking.

Without the lights or chiller on, the tank reaches and stays at 83
pretty solidly (although we had a cold spell and it dropped to 78 for
a couple days). With the lights the tank hits 86 pretty reliably.
With lights and chiller, the tank wrestles back to its baseline at
approximately 83, although I have also seen it creep to 83.5 on hot
days. I'd like the tank to be at 80.

So I am trying to figure out where and how big fans I need. I am also
looking for the quietest fans in existence. The bloody tank is
already a noisy menace (we like silence) and adding to the din will
not be well received.

I will prolly sell my 2x175 watt Ushio setup and move to electronic
ballasts for noise and heat concerns as soon as I find a buyer… The
air pump, which is silent w/o backpressure makes an almost perfect
60hz hum when the airstones are attached, and when the chiller kicks
on it sounds like the UPS truck is nearby.

OK, it's a tad quieter ;-)

At any rate, feedback welcome J
-J

Marc Levenson
July 28th 03, 03:41 AM
Feedback? Hmmm.

First of all, here's your broken link corrected: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessecanopy.jpg

Second of all, WHAT A COOL TANK!

Temp issues are serious. Is the stand open in the back at all, and if not, could it be? If not, would you consider
adding a vent fan like you having your bathroom ceiling? Put it in the wall behind the tank, and using ductwork, suck
the heat out of the stand. You could do the same with the canopy as well. Or put two holes in the back (picturing two
rounded holes) with a fan in the next room blowing in, and the other sucking out...

What about putting the chiller in the next room as well? Or downstairs? Or up above the tank (next floor/attic)?

One option that is rather involved is to use a window unit setting outside to chill your tank. All the noise is
outside, and odds are it will last a long(!) time. Here's the link:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=177020&goto=newpost

I agree, 83F for your low is too high. I'm an old-school fan of 78F, but in the summer it is closer to 80F ... now that
I got it all working correctly. It was more like 82F, but I've got that resolved.

Marc

CJImbach wrote:

> "richard reynolds" > wrote in message >...
> > I would like to know more about your setup before giving advice, it seems your setup is
> > holding in more heat than it should be, or something else is broken]]
>
> Well here's what I know:
>
> I was curious how big this thing was - including the sump. The bull
> nose has really thrown me for a loop (even though I know the volume of
> a cylinder is pi r squared x height /2 x whatever cu in are in a
> gallon etc…).
>
> Pic of tank: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessetank.jpg
> (the pic was taken immediately after adding the LS)
> Pic of sump: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessesump.jpg
> (the pic of the sump shoes some foam, this is before the PS was
> installed)
> Pic of canopy: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessecanoly.jpg
> (the pic was taken during broad daylight, reflectors resting on
> invisible glass braces)
>
> So I designed this thing a few years ago when I was a poor college
> student and needed a fantasy distraction one finals-study-time. When
> I had the nickels stacked up to have it made, I looked around till I
> found a guy willing to build it. Without me knowing, he outsourced
> the job to a team in Hong Kong and shipped over in a really cool
> custom-formed styro case. I picked it up at SFO with the BF, it
> weighs about 500 lbs dry. Since so much of my plan was not followed,
> I got the whole thing for a MUCH reduced price <sigh> I just hate
> compromising dreams. Oh, and when I got the thing, it had not been
> finished. So I had to tote the thing up to my parents' house where I
> took over dads' spray booth and put 7 coats of polyurethane on it over
> 1 week.
>
> The glass is 3/4" thick and 25" tall and 12' long, bent in half at a
> 9" internal radius at one end. A hole was drilled in the bottom (not
> my spec) at the radius point for a return bulkhead.
> At the back of the tank is the overflow with a 2" hole drilled in the
> bottom that runs to the sump. Inside the tank is:
> - 1x 400 GPH AquaClear 4000
> - 1x 200 GPH TAM Internal Filter (temporarily, for mechanical
> filtration)
>
> The cabined is made of 1" HDF with cherry veneer and it weighs a TON.
> The plinth and top are 1 1/2" thick; the 6 internal braces are each 2"
> x 3" and the bullnose portion of the tank is additionally supported by
> a solid 1" panel top to bottom.
>
> The ballast (which is warm) is inside the cabinet, as is the 1000 VA
> UPS (which is also warm), an 18 LPM air pump (which is warm), and
> three big powerheads:
> - 1x 800 GPH CA2200 for tank return
> - 1x 700 GPH AquaVia (running the skimmer: Aqua Clear MPS150)
> - 1x 400 GPH AquaClear 4000 to chiller
>
> There is also a 200-watt heater in the box on a shelf.
>
> The canopy is also made of 1" HDF with veneer and slides down over the
> glass and fits like a condom, the lip slightly overlapping the
> decorative copper (yes, I know) 2" band. The thin top panels are
> removable and I typically have them louvered for heat dissipation.
> The tank is internally braced 4" down from the top with 5/8" x 3"
> glass strips siliconed into a square in the middle of the tank. The
> water just touches the glass at the high points and the Spider
> Reflectors for the MH's rest on the top of the glass (well, they are
> mounted to the canopy, but tips rest on the glass bracing).
> Essentially the water is just above the bottom of the copper band; the
> HM bulbs are just below the top.
>
> When totally assembled, the whole thing looks pretty damned cool, I
> have to say, but this heat retention issue is getting serious. I
> don't want to stock this tank till I can be assured of temp stability.
> I waited till summer to stock it for this reason.
>
> Eventually I want to transition my micro reef in my bedroom into the
> big tank and turn it it into a refugium – it already matches (bent
> glass 16 gallon jobbie with custom canopy and stand) so the whole
> setup would be seamless looking.
>
> Without the lights or chiller on, the tank reaches and stays at 83
> pretty solidly (although we had a cold spell and it dropped to 78 for
> a couple days). With the lights the tank hits 86 pretty reliably.
> With lights and chiller, the tank wrestles back to its baseline at
> approximately 83, although I have also seen it creep to 83.5 on hot
> days. I'd like the tank to be at 80.
>
> So I am trying to figure out where and how big fans I need. I am also
> looking for the quietest fans in existence. The bloody tank is
> already a noisy menace (we like silence) and adding to the din will
> not be well received.
>
> I will prolly sell my 2x175 watt Ushio setup and move to electronic
> ballasts for noise and heat concerns as soon as I find a buyer… The
> air pump, which is silent w/o backpressure makes an almost perfect
> 60hz hum when the airstones are attached, and when the chiller kicks
> on it sounds like the UPS truck is nearby.
>
> OK, it's a tad quieter ;-)
>
> At any rate, feedback welcome J
> -J

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

CJImbach
July 28th 03, 05:36 AM
Marc Levenson > wrote in message >...
> First of all, here's your broken link corrected: http://www.albuspuer.com/jessecanopy.jpg

Thx!

> Second of all, WHAT A COOL TANK!

Thx again! I am pleased with it too... long standing dream.

>Is the stand open in the back at all, and if not, could it be?

So the answer is no, there are no vents, and I don't really want put
holes in what is currently the back because it will one day (oh how I
hope it will be soon) be in the straw-bale construction house I am
designing - this was designed as a semi wall between the bedrooms and
the sitting room.

>If not, would you consider adding a vent fan like you having your
bathroom ceiling? Put it in the >wall behind the tank, and using
ductwork, suck the heat out of the stand.

This is brilliant. I don't own the house I am in or I would, BUT, it
has me thinking about putting a 6" duct fan in the end of the stand
opposite the bullnose and just venting it down and out into the room.

> Or up above the tank (next floor/attic)?

Yes, I think I will do this immediatly. Many thanks for the feedback
and ideas.
Off to ponder...
-Jesse

richard reynolds
July 28th 03, 05:54 AM
> Yes, I think I will do this immediatly. Many thanks for the feedback
> and ideas.
> Off to ponder...
> -Jesse

looks like its going to be a good setup

while I totally agree fans are the best overall method, I think I would look for the exact
cause of the heat, just to make sure you dont have something broken a heater or pump or
......

now is the time to find things like broken heaters/pumps once you have livestock its not a
good thing to have them break

--
richard reynolds

CJImbach
July 29th 03, 04:52 AM
"richard reynolds" > wrote in message

> while I totally agree fans are the best overall method, I think I would look for the exact
> cause of the heat, just to make sure you dont have something broken a heater or pump or

I have checked everything for shorts, I also have a thermocouple and a
voltage sensor in the water at all times and there is nothing to speak
of. There are no heaters in the tank currently.

So here is the real point of my post:

I decided to put the lights on and keep the chiller off to see what
happen to the temp. Within 3 hours the water went from 78 to 90
degrees! I flipped on the chiller, put a Vornado fan on one side of
the canopy and slid the lid back on the other side.

The temp has dropped one degree since I started writing this. Seems
to make a significant difference.

-Jesse

CJImbach
July 29th 03, 06:26 AM
(CJImbach) wrote in message
> >If not, would you consider putting a fan up above the tank?

Further update, a 10" Vornado fan has REALLY done wonders for the
tank. REALLY! I flipped the chiller on, put on the fan, and within 3
hours the water is down from 90 to 78! With the lights on!

I am so excited I can't say.

I put a quick pix page together about the aquarium so that some of the
descriptions I have been providing might make a little more sense:
http://albuspuer.com/jtank/

Thx for the ideas, I am donna stick some Ocellaris in tomorrow.
-J