Goldfish Don't Need Oxygen

[Charles]

More accurately, they can live without it for a while.

An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
ethanol and excrete that through the gills.

Science news is available on line at:

www.sciencenews.org

but it is a pay service.


--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Charles wrote:
>
> More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
>
> An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
> research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
> the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
> without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
> ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
>
> Science news is available on line at:
>
> www.sciencenews.org
>
> but it is a pay service.

Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
without oxygen.

[sophie]

In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> writes
>
>
>Charles wrote:
>>
>> More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
>>
>> An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
>> research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
>> the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
>> without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
>> ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
>>
>> Science news is available on line at:
>>
>> www.sciencenews.org
>>
>> but it is a pay service.
>
>Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
>without oxygen.

it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
info on it here:

http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc

--
sophie

[Geezer From The Freezer]

sophie wrote:
>
> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > writes
> >
> >
> >Charles wrote:
> >>
> >> More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
> >>
> >> An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
> >> research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
> >> the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
> >> without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
> >> ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
> >>
> >> Science news is available on line at:
> >>
> >> www.sciencenews.org
> >>
> >> but it is a pay service.
> >
> >Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
> >without oxygen.
>
> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
> info on it here:

Well yes, they are extremely small (in comparison to other living animals), they
also
lower their metabolism in cold water. Take into consideration that colder water
can
hold more oxygen too.

[Gareee©]

"sophie" > wrote in message
...
> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > writes

> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
> info on it here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc


Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to browse...

[Derek Broughton]

Gareee© wrote:

> "sophie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > writes
>
>> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
>> info on it here:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
>
>
> Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to browse...

LOL. Not a chance.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

Gareee© wrote:

> "sophie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > writes
>
>> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
>> info on it here:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
>
>
> Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to browse...

Further, here's exactly what Tinyurl does - I send it a URL, it sends back a
page with a redirect, my browser asks for the redirected page, and there I
am at Google...

derek@iago:~$ wget http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
--11:25:23-- http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
=> `5bdjc'
Resolving tinyurl.com... 216.234.186.14
Connecting to tinyurl.com[216.234.186.14]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://redirecting.tinyurl.com/redirect.php?num=5bdjc [following]
--11:25:24-- http://redirecting.tinyurl.com/redirect.php?num=5bdjc
=> `redirect.php?num=5bdjc'
Resolving redirecting.tinyurl.com... 66.98.140.48
Connecting to redirecting.tinyurl.com[66.98.140.48]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22crucian+carp%22+oxygen&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
[following]
--11:25:24--
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22crucian+carp%22+oxygen&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
=>
`search?hl=en&q="crucian+carp"+oxygen&btnG=Google+Search&meta='
Resolving www.google.co.uk... 216.239.41.99, 216.239.41.104
Connecting to www.google.co.uk[216.239.41.99]:80... connected.

--
derek

[[email protected]]

and be sure to try this only with crucian carp too. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Donald K]

Gareee© wrote:

>> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
>
>
> Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to
> browse...

Not on my machine it doesn't...

-Donald
--
Unix *is* user friendly. It's just picky about who its friends are.

[sophie]

In message >, Gareee©
> writes
>"sophie" > wrote in message
...
>> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > writes
>
>> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
>> info on it here:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
>
>
>Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to browse...

eh?
--
sophie

[sophie]

In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> writes
>
>
>sophie wrote:
>>
>> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > writes
>> >
>> >
>> >Charles wrote:
>> >>
>> >> More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
>> >>
>> >> An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
>> >> research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
>> >> the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
>> >> without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
>> >> ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
>> >>
>> >> Science news is available on line at:
>> >>
>> >> www.sciencenews.org
>> >>
>> >> but it is a pay service.
>> >
>> >Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
>> >without oxygen.
>>
>> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
>> info on it here:
>
>Well yes, they are extremely small (in comparison to other living
>animals), they
>also
>lower their metabolism in cold water. Take into consideration that colder water
>can
>hold more oxygen too.

I don't _think_ that living through anoxia is unique, anyway; the
article I glanced at suggested that they were the only animals that can
do it _in cold conditions_ and _while their hearts continue to beat_.
Even people can survive what is effectively death by drowning if they
are cold enough, I believe.

--
sophie

[Crashj]

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 03:29:49 GMT, Charles >
wrote:

>More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
>
>An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
>research done on the crucian carp.
> <>They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
>ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
So if we could capture the ethanol from their gills . . .
wallah, a fish-still.
--
Crashj

[Crashj]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:53:00 -0400, "Gareee©"
> wrote:
>"sophie" > wrote in message
...
>> In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > writes
>> it's extreme low oxygen rather than total oxygen deprivation. Loads of
>> info on it here:
>> http://tinyurl.com/5bdjc
>Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use it to browse...
Sorry for the crosspost, but what about snipurl.com?
--
Crashj

[Ka30P]

collections of quotes >>Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if you use
it to browse...
>Sorry for the crosspost, but what about snipurl.com?

Is this an occasion of there is no such thing as a free lunch? Don't want to
use these if that is the case.



kathy :-)
zone 7, SE WA state

[Charles]

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:02 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

>
>
>Charles wrote:
>>
>> More accurately, they can live without it for a while.
>>
>> An article in the current Science News (Oct. 2, 2004) talks about
>> research done on the crucian carp. The article mentions goldfish near
>> the end. They have a form of metabolism they can call on to survive
>> without oxygen. They can convert the lactic acid that builds up into
>> ethanol and excrete that through the gills.
>>
>> Science news is available on line at:
>>
>> www.sciencenews.org
>>
>> but it is a pay service.
>
>Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
>without oxygen.


Cut and Paste would be messy, I get the paper version.

The fish can survive for some time without oxygen, it can't thrive,
grow or reproduce.
--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[Snooze]

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> collections of quotes >>Just a FYI.. Tinyurl installs spyware/adware if
you use
> it to browse...
> >Sorry for the crosspost, but what about snipurl.com?
>
> Is this an occasion of there is no such thing as a free lunch? Don't want
to
> use these if that is the case.

Kathy

Garee's claim of tinyurl installing spyware is false. He probably went to a
tinyurl link for a site that had pop-up ads and one of those pop-up ads
attempted to install spyware.

Literally all tinyurl does is redirect the browers to the other site.
Another site that is pretty good, is http://xrl.us/

Snooze

[Lilly]

Someone got me using http://www.makeashorterlink.com and it's great.
Lilly

Derek Broughton > wrote in message >...
>Further, here's exactly what Tinyurl does

[Geezer From The Freezer]

sophie wrote:
>
> I don't _think_ that living through anoxia is unique, anyway; the
> article I glanced at suggested that they were the only animals that can
> do it _in cold conditions_ and _while their hearts continue to beat_.
> Even people can survive what is effectively death by drowning if they
> are cold enough, I believe.
>
> --
> sophie

Yep one guy (actually I think it was a kid) "survived" 45 minutes under freezing
water and was resuscitated without brain damage

[Benign Vanilla]

"Snooze" > wrote in message
. ..
<snip>
> Literally all tinyurl does is redirect the browers to the other site.
> Another site that is pretty good, is http://xrl.us/
<snip>

Yes, that is true. TinyURL.com is all server side, which means there is no
processing or software on your machine. Of course they also have the TinyURL
toolbar now, that could be the source of the OP's fear.

BV.

[petesm]

Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn
live
without oxygen.

Anaerobic bacteria ?


--
petesm

[Donald K]

Charles wrote:

> The fish can survive for some time without oxygen, it can't thrive,
> grow or reproduce.

So can I. About 6-7 minutes.

-D
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[Crashj]

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:02 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:
> No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live without oxygen.

Absolutes tend to destroy hypotheses. There are too many anerobic
creatures on earth to support your statement.
--
Crashj

[Cichlidiot]

In rec.ponds Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:
> Cut and paste it please. No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live
> without oxygen.

There's some basic biology that needs to be reviewed. The first portion of
carbohydrate metabolism (glycolysis) does not require oxygen and does
produce some energy. In presence of oxygen, this continues into the Krebs
cycle and oxidative phosphorylation in the mitochondria which produces
more energy. In the absence of oxygen, this instead ends and the product
of glycolysis is converted into lactate (lactic acid) by an enzyme.

For example, human muscles can operate via anaerobic metabolism or a mix
of anaeobic and aerobic metabolism. In muscles, a limited source of energy
can be stored in resting muscles. This store is used first before
metabolic pathways (both aerobic and anaerobic) when the muscle contracts.
In intense exercise (note "intense" has an individual meaning here with
respects to the individual's conditioning), glycolysis only (anaerobic)
becomes a predominant mode of producing energy but with the side effect of
lactic acid build-up and requiring more oxygen to rebuild energy stores
after exercise. Lactic acid also contributes to muscle fatigue and can
cause metabolic acidosis (due to the higher presence of H+ ions).

A few things to note. One, energy is produced when oxygen is not present,
just not as much as when oxygen is present. Two, you get a build-up of
lactic acid using the anaerobic pathways. Three, a build-up of lactic acid
can have detrimental effects on the body as a whole. It sounds like these
fish have an additional metabolic pathway to excrete lactic acid so that
they do not get acidosis and muscle fatigue due to high lactic acid
concentrations, but I have not actually read the study.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Crashj wrote:
>
> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:02 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
> > No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live without oxygen.
>
> Absolutes tend to destroy hypotheses. There are too many anerobic
> creatures on earth to support your statement.
> --
> Crashj

yes but they are bacteria not animals. Do bacteria have lungs or equivalent?

[Crashj]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:30:27 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:
>Crashj wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:02 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
>> > wrote:
>> > No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live without oxygen.

>> Absolutes tend to destroy hypotheses. There are too many anerobic
>> creatures on earth to support your statement.

>yes but they are bacteria not animals. Do bacteria have lungs or equivalent?

Lungs, no, equivalent, yes. Oxygen absorption through the cell wall.
But it's probably more complicated than that.
Also, but, OKAY, bacteria do not seem to be animals. As such.

--
Crashj

[Sander Vesik]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:
>
>
> Crashj wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:14:02 +0100, Geezer From The Freezer
> > > wrote:
> > > No living animal(as far as I am aware) casn live without oxygen.
> >
> > Absolutes tend to destroy hypotheses. There are too many anerobic
> > creatures on earth to support your statement.
> > --
> > Crashj
>
> yes but they are bacteria not animals. Do bacteria have lungs or equivalent?

Dunno... there might be anaerobic multicellurals near geothermal vents...

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++