RE: Koi Questions

I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable. I
take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation feeding
from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp 12
inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed Koi
food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The water
is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
on - 3ft of water straight down.

The questions:

4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if he
had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously abnormal.
He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would have
been about 4 years old.

1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
one unusual or quite to be expected?

3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.

All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the tench
at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they are
golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
"
2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
go?

3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
certain proportion of the floating food does sink.

4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
where has the missing one gone?

Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have seen
him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!

5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
fed for some time?

Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to be
going on?

[[email protected]]

how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond? Ingrid


> wrote:

>I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable. I
>take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation feeding
>from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp 12
>inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed Koi
>food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The water
>is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>on - 3ft of water straight down.
>
>The questions:
>
>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if he
>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously abnormal.
>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would have
>been about 4 years old.
>
>1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>one unusual or quite to be expected?
>
>3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>
>All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the tench
>at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they are
>golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>"
>2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>go?
>
>3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>
>4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>where has the missing one gone?
>
>Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have seen
>him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>
>5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>fed for some time?
>
>Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to be
>going on?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

my last fish died the only thing I found on necropsy was infected eggs. it most
likely was the result of birds drinking and bathing in my veggie filter and pooping
in there. Ingrid

> wrote:
>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if he
>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously abnormal.
>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would have
>been about 4 years old.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
looked in fine form the day before.

Fireball



> wrote in message
...
> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
> Ingrid
>
>
> > wrote:
>
>>I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>>everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>>filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable.
>>I
>>take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>>built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation
>>feeding
>>from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp
>>12
>>inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>>goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>>behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed
>>Koi
>>food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>>The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>>have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The
>>water
>>is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>>on - 3ft of water straight down.
>>
>>The questions:
>>
>>4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if
>>he
>>had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously
>>abnormal.
>>He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would
>>have
>>been about 4 years old.
>>
>>1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>>one unusual or quite to be expected?
>>
>>3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>>golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>>
>>All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the
>>tench
>>at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>>one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>>it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they
>>are
>>golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>>"
>>2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>>go?
>>
>>3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>>certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>>
>>4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>>weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>>fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>>where has the missing one gone?
>>
>>Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>>and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have
>>seen
>>him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>>
>>5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>>fed for some time?
>>
>>Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to
>>be
>>going on?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[San Diego Joe]

" wrote:

> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
> looked in fine form the day before.
>
> Fireball
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>> Ingrid
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a fairly well established large pond, its about 3-4 feet deep,
>>> everywhere, about 6-8 feet across and about 12 feet long. I use a bio
>>> filter consisting of about 1/3 ton of gravel. NH3 level is immesurable.
>>> I
>>> take rainwater off the roof of my house and overflow the pond to dilute
>>> built up soluble salts etc. I have a double waterfall for airation
>>> feeding
>>> from a small pond.. I have about 6 large Koi 12-16 inches, 2 grass garp
>>> 12
>>> inches all grown from tiddlers no more than 2-3 inches long , a dozen
>>> goldfish fish most home grown from just a few originals. All the fish are
>>> behaving normally, and all are feeding normally. The fish are only fed
>>> Koi
>>> food. All the fish are chubby, and the girl goldfish have huge bellies.
>>> The water is very clear at the moment and it is easy to see the bottom. I
>>> have specially designed my pond to be cat proof and heron proof. The
>>> water
>>> is 8 inches below the surrond, and there is no shelf for herons to stand
>>> on - 3ft of water straight down.
>>>
>>> The questions:
>>>
>>> 4 weeks ago one of the 16 inch Ghost Koi died. I opened him up to see if
>>> he
>>> had anything stuck in his gullet, but there was nothing obviously
>>> abnormal.
>>> He didn't look ill or have any outwould signs of disease. He would
>>> have
>>> been about 4 years old.
>>>
>>> 1. What is the average rate of loss of Koi from a shoal? Is the loss of
>>> one unusual or quite to be expected?
>>>
>>> 3 weeks ago traded a few water lillies for a small young Koi and 2 small
>>> golden tench. Skinny wretches compared with my fish.
>>>
>>> All seemed well for the first week, but after that I haven't seen the
>>> tench
>>> at all, except for about a week ago when I was pulling out some algae and
>>> one of the tench was amongst it. I though it was dead, but when I touched
>>> it, it swam off and I haven't seen either of them since. Remember they
>>> are
>>> golden coloured not grass carp coloured!
>>> "
>>> 2. Is this normal behaviour? And if they really are there, where do they
>>> go?
>>>
>>> 3. Will golden tench eat 'floating' Koi food as the grass carp will. A
>>> certain proportion of the floating food does sink.
>>>
>>> 4. A year ago I bought 2 starlets (dwarf sturgeon), one died after about 3
>>> weeks, and the other I have never seen since. I have been told that these
>>> fish are not suitable for still ponds, they need a stream to live in. So
>>> where has the missing one gone?
>>>
>>> Two days ago the new little Koi died. He teamed up with the small goldfish
>>> and seemed quite happy with life doing fishy things with them. I have
>>> seen
>>> him eating with his friends and and having fun. Then its fins up!
>>>
>>> 5. Is it a risk buying Koi at this time of the year as they haven't been
>>> fed for some time?
>>>
>>> Bearing in mind that the big Koi and goldfish seem OK, what is likely to
>>> be
>>> going on?
>>>


I isolate mine for about three weeks in an aquarium just for that purpose.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.



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[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without quarantine.
Ingrid:

" wrote:
>
>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and new
>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how should
>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>
>> Fireball
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>> Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I have just read the link. Wow. You have to be joking! Where can I set up
that sort of system, and how can I provide the equipment and what appears to
be time as well for the welfare for one tiddler! I have bought about 10 Koi
and this was the first time I have lost one within 4 weeks of there
introduction. Was I lucky for the 10, or unlucky with the one that died.

Are we all absolutely sure that if you go to all that trouble described in
the link that a living fish is guarenteed all the way through to the end and
a successfully introduced fish?

I wonder how many fish die anyway during that complex introductory
methodology. The stress must be significant.


What do you think?




> wrote in message
...
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
> altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
> lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without
> quarantine.
> Ingrid:
>
" wrote:
>>
>>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and
>>> new
>>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how
>>> should
>>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>>
>>> Fireball
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>>> Ingrid
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

most people toss in that new fish and are lucky. then along comes a fish that has a
serious and deadly disease and wipes out all the fish in the pond. some fish are
even carriers and they wont die, but kill all the rest. after losing an entire
collection of friends ... koi that come to our hand, know us by sight that been
around for years to a new, small unknown new koi there simply isnt any question
anymore. the last koi I introduced had been quarantined inside in an aquarium for 6
months.
the point of quarantine is that if that fish is going to die better it dies alone in
the quarantine tank than spreading what it got to the established fish in the pond.
A koi in a 100 gallon quarantine rubbermaid stock tank can be treated, medicated and
even given injections if needed and it is more likely to survive the months of
quarantine there than in a pond where it couldnt be treated the same. Ingrid

> wrote:

>I have just read the link. Wow. You have to be joking! Where can I set up
>that sort of system, and how can I provide the equipment and what appears to
>be time as well for the welfare for one tiddler! I have bought about 10 Koi
>and this was the first time I have lost one within 4 weeks of there
>introduction. Was I lucky for the 10, or unlucky with the one that died.
>
>Are we all absolutely sure that if you go to all that trouble described in
>the link that a living fish is guarenteed all the way through to the end and
>a successfully introduced fish?
>
>I wonder how many fish die anyway during that complex introductory
>methodology. The stress must be significant.
>
>
>What do you think?
>
>
>
>
> wrote in message
...
>> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care2.htm#quarantine%20for%20pond%20fish
>> altho Jan has a slightly difference methodology.
>> lots of people lost all their koi after tossing new fish in without
>> quarantine.
>> Ingrid:
>>
" wrote:
>>>
>>>> About 30 minutes. Enough time for them to get use to the new water and
>>>> new
>>>> temperature! If you think that I should keep them in isolation, how
>>>> should
>>>> I do this and for how long? The small Koi died after two weeks, and he
>>>> looked in fine form the day before.
>>>>
>>>> Fireball
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> how long do you quarantine new fish before tossing them into your pond?
>>>>> Ingrid
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>> www.drsolo.com
>> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> most people toss in that new fish and are lucky. then along comes a fish
that has a
> serious and deadly disease and wipes out all the fish in the pond. some
fish are
> even carriers and they wont die, but kill all the rest. after losing an
entire
> collection of friends ... koi that come to our hand, know us by sight that
been
> around for years to a new, small unknown new koi there simply isnt any
question
> anymore. the last koi I introduced had been quarantined inside in an
aquarium for 6
> months.
> the point of quarantine is that if that fish is going to die better it
dies alone in
> the quarantine tank than spreading what it got to the established fish in
the pond.
> A koi in a 100 gallon quarantine rubbermaid stock tank can be treated,
medicated and
> even given injections if needed and it is more likely to survive the
months of
> quarantine there than in a pond where it couldnt be treated the same.
Ingrid

Ingrid,

I am naughty and have not used a quarantine tank, so this is a serious
question. Each time you toss a fish into quarantine, and then move it to the
pond, do you empty the quarantine tank, disinfect it and then refill and
re-cycle it?

BV.

[[email protected]]

usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the next spring.
I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had to recycle
any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the gravel and
pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big water changes
at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>I am naughty and have not used a quarantine tank, so this is a serious
>question. Each time you toss a fish into quarantine, and then move it to the
>pond, do you empty the quarantine tank, disinfect it and then refill and
>re-cycle it?
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the
next spring.
> I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had
to recycle
> any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the
gravel and
> pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big
water changes
> at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid


What I meant was, if you use the tank for quarentine, do you bomb it
afterwards just in case the fish had cooties that you did not catch or
notice?

BV.

[[email protected]]

no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish die in the
tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid


"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> usually the stock tank is emptied and sits dry in the basement until the
>next spring.
>> I guess I would do what Jo Ann does... bomb it with PP. I have never had
>to recycle
>> any tank. I use one of those gravity filters. with all the water and the
>gravel and
>> pads in there it seems to cycle immediately. of course I am doing big
>water changes
>> at first cause that physically dilutes the number of cooties. Ingrid
>
>
>What I meant was, if you use the tank for quarentine, do you bomb it
>afterwards just in case the fish had cooties that you did not catch or
>notice?
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Benign Vanilla]

> wrote in message
...
> no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish
die in the
> tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid
<snip>

Ahhh, you let it go dry between uses. I guess I always picture a full tank
ready to go and cycled at all times.

BV.

[Twittering One]

<< > no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish
die in the
> tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid
<snip>

Ahhh, you let it go dry between uses. I guess I always picture a full tank
ready to go and cycled at all times.

BV. >>

Please explain?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
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HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

[[email protected]]

nahhh... dont buy fish that often.

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> no, once it is dry there just arent normal regular cooties. if I had fish
>die in the
>> tank I guess I would bleach it. Ingrid
><snip>
>
>Ahhh, you let it go dry between uses. I guess I always picture a full tank
>ready to go and cycled at all times.
>
>BV.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.