View Full Version : PMDD dosing question
Nicholas Murray
October 10th 04, 02:07 PM
I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have forgotten
some basic facts.
56 l tank
1W/ l lighting.
DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown (to me),
medium-sized Echinodorus.
dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the surface right
under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd like. Some
BBA fading away. No fish yet.
The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen. What
levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to take a stab
at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
Thanks in advance,
Nick.
Rick
October 10th 04, 06:23 PM
"Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
...
> I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have forgotten
> some basic facts.
>
> 56 l tank
> 1W/ l lighting.
> DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown (to me),
> medium-sized Echinodorus.
> dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
>
> Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the surface
right
> under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd like. Some
> BBA fading away. No fish yet.
>
> The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen. What
> levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to take a
stab
> at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nick.
>
>
I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are in the
ball park.
Rick
Allyb
October 12th 04, 04:36 AM
I just went through this. Very frustrating. I was way way underdosing at
first. You should use the fertilizer calculator to see how much you're
actually adding to the tank in ppm with the solution you've made.
http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm I just ran it at
1 tsp KNO3 in 300ml water (per the recipe) and it said that 1ml would add
..05ppm nitrates, and you're just adding drops!
PMDD seems to be adding such a tiny amount, I don't quite understand how
you're supposed to get the levels up. I've made a solution with just
nitrates (I use the stump remover). I have a 55 gallon, and I mixed 6 Tbsp
(6 Tbsps!) with 250 ml of water, which is supposed to be 1.2 ppm per ml
added to the tank. I'm adding 20ml a day just to keep my levels at around
5ppm. I need to test the solution to see if it's really as strong as the
calculator says it is, I'm suspicious that it's weaker. Anyway, according
to a poster in this group, a heavily planted aquarium can consume 10ppm per
day, so at the pmdd rates, you're not even teasing them.
I wish someone else here could explain this. I've often wondered why the
recipe seems so weak.
Good luck! Allison
"Rick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> ...
> > I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have forgotten
> > some basic facts.
> >
> > 56 l tank
> > 1W/ l lighting.
> > DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> > moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown (to
me),
> > medium-sized Echinodorus.
> > dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> > laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
> >
> > Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> > A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the surface
> right
> > under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd like.
Some
> > BBA fading away. No fish yet.
> >
> > The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen. What
> > levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to take a
> stab
> > at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Nick.
> >
> >
> I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are in the
> ball park.
>
> Rick
>
>
Nicholas Murray
October 12th 04, 01:29 PM
It seems I should be using 1.5ml/day, according to the Sears/Conlin paper.
30 drops/day ?
"Allyb" > wrote in message
...
> I just went through this. Very frustrating. I was way way underdosing at
> first. You should use the fertilizer calculator to see how much you're
> actually adding to the tank in ppm with the solution you've made.
> http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm I just ran it
at
> 1 tsp KNO3 in 300ml water (per the recipe) and it said that 1ml would add
> .05ppm nitrates, and you're just adding drops!
> PMDD seems to be adding such a tiny amount, I don't quite understand how
> you're supposed to get the levels up. I've made a solution with just
> nitrates (I use the stump remover). I have a 55 gallon, and I mixed 6
Tbsp
> (6 Tbsps!) with 250 ml of water, which is supposed to be 1.2 ppm per ml
> added to the tank. I'm adding 20ml a day just to keep my levels at around
> 5ppm. I need to test the solution to see if it's really as strong as the
> calculator says it is, I'm suspicious that it's weaker. Anyway, according
> to a poster in this group, a heavily planted aquarium can consume 10ppm
per
> day, so at the pmdd rates, you're not even teasing them.
>
> I wish someone else here could explain this. I've often wondered why the
> recipe seems so weak.
>
> Good luck! Allison
>
> "Rick" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have
forgotten
> > > some basic facts.
> > >
> > > 56 l tank
> > > 1W/ l lighting.
> > > DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> > > moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown (to
> me),
> > > medium-sized Echinodorus.
> > > dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> > > laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
> > >
> > > Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> > > A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the surface
> > right
> > > under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd like.
> Some
> > > BBA fading away. No fish yet.
> > >
> > > The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen. What
> > > levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to take a
> > stab
> > > at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Nick.
> > >
> > >
> > I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are in the
> > ball park.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
>
Happy'Cam'per
October 12th 04, 02:09 PM
Go for 2 ml a day, or 4 ml every 2 days etc etc.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**
"Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
...
> It seems I should be using 1.5ml/day, according to the Sears/Conlin paper.
> 30 drops/day ?
>
> "Allyb" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I just went through this. Very frustrating. I was way way underdosing
at
> > first. You should use the fertilizer calculator to see how much you're
> > actually adding to the tank in ppm with the solution you've made.
> > http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm I just ran
it
> at
> > 1 tsp KNO3 in 300ml water (per the recipe) and it said that 1ml would
add
> > .05ppm nitrates, and you're just adding drops!
> > PMDD seems to be adding such a tiny amount, I don't quite understand how
> > you're supposed to get the levels up. I've made a solution with just
> > nitrates (I use the stump remover). I have a 55 gallon, and I mixed 6
> Tbsp
> > (6 Tbsps!) with 250 ml of water, which is supposed to be 1.2 ppm per ml
> > added to the tank. I'm adding 20ml a day just to keep my levels at
around
> > 5ppm. I need to test the solution to see if it's really as strong as
the
> > calculator says it is, I'm suspicious that it's weaker. Anyway,
according
> > to a poster in this group, a heavily planted aquarium can consume 10ppm
> per
> > day, so at the pmdd rates, you're not even teasing them.
> >
> > I wish someone else here could explain this. I've often wondered why
the
> > recipe seems so weak.
> >
> > Good luck! Allison
> >
> > "Rick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have
> forgotten
> > > > some basic facts.
> > > >
> > > > 56 l tank
> > > > 1W/ l lighting.
> > > > DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> > > > moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown (to
> > me),
> > > > medium-sized Echinodorus.
> > > > dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> > > > laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
> > > >
> > > > Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> > > > A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the
surface
> > > right
> > > > under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd like.
> > Some
> > > > BBA fading away. No fish yet.
> > > >
> > > > The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen.
What
> > > > levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to take
a
> > > stab
> > > > at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Nick.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are in
the
> > > ball park.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Rick
October 12th 04, 09:58 PM
"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message
...
>
> Go for 2 ml a day, or 4 ml every 2 days etc etc.
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**
>
> "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> ...
> > It seems I should be using 1.5ml/day, according to the Sears/Conlin
paper.
> > 30 drops/day ?
> >
> > "Allyb" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I just went through this. Very frustrating. I was way way
underdosing
> at
> > > first. You should use the fertilizer calculator to see how much
you're
> > > actually adding to the tank in ppm with the solution you've made.
> > > http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm I just ran
> it
> > at
> > > 1 tsp KNO3 in 300ml water (per the recipe) and it said that 1ml would
> add
> > > .05ppm nitrates, and you're just adding drops!
> > > PMDD seems to be adding such a tiny amount, I don't quite understand
how
> > > you're supposed to get the levels up. I've made a solution with just
> > > nitrates (I use the stump remover). I have a 55 gallon, and I mixed 6
> > Tbsp
> > > (6 Tbsps!) with 250 ml of water, which is supposed to be 1.2 ppm per
ml
> > > added to the tank. I'm adding 20ml a day just to keep my levels at
> around
> > > 5ppm. I need to test the solution to see if it's really as strong as
> the
> > > calculator says it is, I'm suspicious that it's weaker. Anyway,
> according
> > > to a poster in this group, a heavily planted aquarium can consume
10ppm
> > per
> > > day, so at the pmdd rates, you're not even teasing them.
> > >
> > > I wish someone else here could explain this. I've often wondered why
> the
> > > recipe seems so weak.
> > >
> > > Good luck! Allison
> > >
> > > "Rick" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have
> > forgotten
> > > > > some basic facts.
> > > > >
> > > > > 56 l tank
> > > > > 1W/ l lighting.
> > > > > DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> > > > > moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown
(to
> > > me),
> > > > > medium-sized Echinodorus.
> > > > > dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> > > > > laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> > > > > A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the
> surface
> > > > right
> > > > > under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd
like.
> > > Some
> > > > > BBA fading away. No fish yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this regimen.
> What
> > > > > levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to
take
> a
> > > > stab
> > > > > at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > Nick.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are in
> the
> > > > ball park.
> > > >
> > > > Rick
from the Krib site, using the Sears and Conlin. I dose 2 drops per 10
gallons. YMMV
Rick
> As a starting point, here's a three point plan for setting PMDD doses.
The amount or "size" in ml (milli-liters) of your daily PMDD dose should
eventually be governed by monitoring Fe (iron) levels that accumulate and
equilibrate in your aquarium over a period of time (more on this later).
But, to get started, for each ten gallons, try around 1/12 ml of PMDD a day
(roughly 2 drops). A 29 gallon tank would then get 1/4 ml a day (roughly 6
drops). If you don't do many partial water changes, dose less. If you have a
"high tech", densely planted, CO2 injected, VHO lit tank, you might want to
double the dose to 1/6 ml of PMDD per 10 gallons a day (roughly 4 drops).
Most of the PMDD nutrient ratios set by Conlin and Sears will work for a
variety of conditions. PMDD has been deliberately formulated so that if
aquarium Fe concentration is proper, other nutrient concentrations should
fall into place. Really, the only common exception to this is NO3 (nitrate);
you may need to tinker with the ratio of KNO3 to other PMDD ingredients.
Adjusting this ratio will eventually be governed by NO3 levels that
accumulate and equilibrate in your aquarium over a period of time (more on
this later).
To get started, if you have around 5mg/ltr of natural NO3 already in your
aquarium, initially use the standard 1 tablespoon KNO3 per 1/2 liter PMDD
mix.
If your natural NO3 is much higher, initially don't add any KNO3 to your
PMDD.
If you have next to no NO3, you might initially boost the KNO3 to 2 or even
3 tablespoons per 1/2 liter of PMDD.
Lastly, as you go along, you'll need to monitor buildup of Fe and NO3 in
your aquarium. Then, watch how plants and unwanted algae respond. As each
daily dose adds nutrients, a portion of some will accumulate until
eventually you'll reach an equilibrium level. This ramp up and stabilizing
process will take awhile (weeks) to occur. Be prepared to adjust your dosage
size and KNO3 ratio as you gather feedback.
>
Nicholas Murray
October 13th 04, 01:27 PM
So the PMDD doses recommended vary from 2 to 40 drops per day for a 54 l
tank?
All I can say is that 4drops/day has not yet allowed measurable iron or
nitrate in the tank.
I'll experiment.
Nick.
"> >
> > Go for 2 ml a day, or 4 ml every 2 days etc etc.
> > --
> > **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**
> >
> > "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > It seems I should be using 1.5ml/day, according to the Sears/Conlin
> paper.
> > > 30 drops/day ?
> > >
> > > "Allyb" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I just went through this. Very frustrating. I was way way
> underdosing
> > at
> > > > first. You should use the fertilizer calculator to see how much
> you're
> > > > actually adding to the tank in ppm with the solution you've made.
> > > > http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm I just
ran
> > it
> > > at
> > > > 1 tsp KNO3 in 300ml water (per the recipe) and it said that 1ml
would
> > add
> > > > .05ppm nitrates, and you're just adding drops!
> > > > PMDD seems to be adding such a tiny amount, I don't quite understand
> how
> > > > you're supposed to get the levels up. I've made a solution with
just
> > > > nitrates (I use the stump remover). I have a 55 gallon, and I mixed
6
> > > Tbsp
> > > > (6 Tbsps!) with 250 ml of water, which is supposed to be 1.2 ppm per
> ml
> > > > added to the tank. I'm adding 20ml a day just to keep my levels at
> > around
> > > > 5ppm. I need to test the solution to see if it's really as strong
as
> > the
> > > > calculator says it is, I'm suspicious that it's weaker. Anyway,
> > according
> > > > to a poster in this group, a heavily planted aquarium can consume
> 10ppm
> > > per
> > > > day, so at the pmdd rates, you're not even teasing them.
> > > >
> > > > I wish someone else here could explain this. I've often wondered
why
> > the
> > > > recipe seems so weak.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck! Allison
> > > >
> > > > "Rick" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I've set up my planted tank after a hiatus of 3 years and have
> > > forgotten
> > > > > > some basic facts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 56 l tank
> > > > > > 1W/ l lighting.
> > > > > > DIY CO2 achieving 20ppm.
> > > > > > moderately dense planting with Limnophila sessiflora and unknown
> (to
> > > > me),
> > > > > > medium-sized Echinodorus.
> > > > > > dosing with 4 drops PMDD per day
> > > > > > laterite balls under the swords; coarse gravel substrate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plants pearling a lot and growing quite well.
> > > > > > A stable, tiny patch of cyanobacteria (on a plant stem at the
> > surface
> > > > > right
> > > > > > under a light) and a bit more filamentous green algae than I'd
> like.
> > > > Some
> > > > > > BBA fading away. No fish yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The NO3 and Fe remain unmeasurable after 2 weeks of this
regimen.
> > What
> > > > > > levels of both of these nutrients are desirable? Anyone want to
> take
> > a
> > > > > stab
> > > > > > at an appropriate PMDD dosing rate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > > Nick.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I think the recommended dose is 2 drops per 10 gallons so you are
in
> > the
> > > > > ball park.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick
>
>
> from the Krib site, using the Sears and Conlin. I dose 2 drops per 10
> gallons. YMMV
>
> Rick
>
>
> > As a starting point, here's a three point plan for setting PMDD doses.
>
> The amount or "size" in ml (milli-liters) of your daily PMDD dose should
> eventually be governed by monitoring Fe (iron) levels that accumulate and
> equilibrate in your aquarium over a period of time (more on this later).
> But, to get started, for each ten gallons, try around 1/12 ml of PMDD a
day
> (roughly 2 drops). A 29 gallon tank would then get 1/4 ml a day (roughly 6
> drops). If you don't do many partial water changes, dose less. If you have
a
> "high tech", densely planted, CO2 injected, VHO lit tank, you might want
to
> double the dose to 1/6 ml of PMDD per 10 gallons a day (roughly 4 drops).
>
> Most of the PMDD nutrient ratios set by Conlin and Sears will work for a
> variety of conditions. PMDD has been deliberately formulated so that if
> aquarium Fe concentration is proper, other nutrient concentrations should
> fall into place. Really, the only common exception to this is NO3
(nitrate);
> you may need to tinker with the ratio of KNO3 to other PMDD ingredients.
> Adjusting this ratio will eventually be governed by NO3 levels that
> accumulate and equilibrate in your aquarium over a period of time (more on
> this later).
>
> To get started, if you have around 5mg/ltr of natural NO3 already in your
> aquarium, initially use the standard 1 tablespoon KNO3 per 1/2 liter PMDD
> mix.
>
> If your natural NO3 is much higher, initially don't add any KNO3 to your
> PMDD.
>
> If you have next to no NO3, you might initially boost the KNO3 to 2 or
even
> 3 tablespoons per 1/2 liter of PMDD.
>
> Lastly, as you go along, you'll need to monitor buildup of Fe and NO3 in
> your aquarium. Then, watch how plants and unwanted algae respond. As each
> daily dose adds nutrients, a portion of some will accumulate until
> eventually you'll reach an equilibrium level. This ramp up and stabilizing
> process will take awhile (weeks) to occur. Be prepared to adjust your
dosage
> size and KNO3 ratio as you gather feedback.
>
>
> >
>
>
Rick
October 13th 04, 09:06 PM
"Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message
...
> So the PMDD doses recommended vary from 2 to 40 drops per day for a 54 l
> tank?
> All I can say is that 4drops/day has not yet allowed measurable iron or
> nitrate in the tank.
> I'll experiment.
>
> Nick.
and experiment is what you have to do. I use the 2 drops per 10 gallon rule
in my 77g planted tank however I also dry dose some ferts in particular KN03
to keep my levels up. There are a lot of variables such as density of
planting, amount of growth etc. The dose rate is simply a starting
guideline. INHO 40 drops in 54 litres of PMDD will simply result in a major
algae outbreak however YMMV.
Rick
October 13th 04, 11:39 PM
"Nicholas Murray" <arwenick"AT"acay.com.au> wrote in message >...
> So the PMDD doses recommended vary from 2 to 40 drops per day for a 54 l
> tank?
> All I can say is that 4drops/day has not yet allowed measurable iron or
> nitrate in the tank.
> I'll experiment.
>
> Nick.
>
You might find that adding this will not supply the things you need
for good plant growth if you have CO2 injection.
This was based on the premise that PO4 and Fe at non limiting
levels(for plants) will cause algae.
This is not true.
This was also devised for low light tanks, 1.5-2w/gal of normal output
FL's lights.
It also suggest low CO2, 10-15ppm or so, 20-30ppm is better.
Many folks need to add PO4 to have good growth, unless your tap water
has 1.0ppm or more and you do 50% weekly changes, you'll need to add
it as well.
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/est_index1.html
Regards,
Tom Barr
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