new LFS not good.

[Aquarijen]

Hi All,
Please forgive the cross post. I thought it relevant to the cichlid group
but more people are on misc...
What do you think about this...
I anticipated the grand opening of a new LFS in my tiny town. The other LFS
is 20 miles away. So with a feeling of adventure, I went into the store
yesterday. They have lots of snakes, 4 birds, several lizards. For a store
that has the word "aquatics" in the name, I was surprised to see only one
fish tank. It was a 30 or 40 gallon. I could not see through to the back
of the tank because it was so cloudy. I went closer. It was a white milky
cloudiness - the kind you get if you use pH-down. In this tank he had
cichlids. He had rainbow cichlids, jack dempsys, green terrors, oscars,
convicts, frontosas and fire mouths. The tank had blue gravel on the
bottom, but nothing else except the heater, and an aqua clear filter.
All the fire-mouths were dead. I noticed these cichlids were from different
lakes and had different requirements. When I asked about the cloudy water
and pointed out the 5 dead firemouths, the owner said, "Oh, it is just this
***** water" (name of town removed). I said I had several fish tanks that
have no water cloudiness problems and that I live down the street. I asked
if he used any products to change the pH in the water. He looked at the
girl co-owner, but didn't say that he had. He said the firemouths died the
day before and he thought they were sick from the breeder. I mentioned that
the cichlids in the tank were from different lakes and "are you sure that is
ok?" and he said, "a cichlid is a cichlid". The water in this town is
perfect for most cichlids untreated. It has a pH a bit above 8 and is hard.
Not sure why he used pH down. Then I asked him when he got the fish. Three
days ago. And I asked if the tank was cycled and he looked at me like he
didn't know what I was saying and said sure. I asked when the tank was set
up and he said "at least a week ago". The girl-owner then said, that they
planned on having three more tanks set up with fish by the end of the week.

What should I do? These folks obviously have no fishkeeping knowledge
beyond knowing that fish need water. I feel sorry for the fish - they are
going to lose them all and that is saying something because they had at
least 50 fish in there. Yes, 50 mixed cichlids in an uncycled 30 or 40
gallon tank without hiding places and dead fish that had set at least
overnight.

What would you do?

-Jen

[Sandy Birrell]

Aquarijen wrote:
> Hi All,
> What would you do?
>
> -Jen

Short answer, GET INVOLVED :)

Offer your services to them on a part time basis to get them up and started.
They probably won't be able to pay you but the odd tub of food or treatment
would do. Once you are sure they can do it themselves leave them to it and
only call in to make sure it stays that way. You will be their friend for
life, maybe :)

-


Don`t Worry, Be Happy

Sandy
--

E-Mail:-
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019

[Nikki Casali]

Aquarijen wrote:


>
> What would you do?

If that store was in the UK I'd get the RSPCA round to do a complete
inspection of the whole place. If they're clueless about the fish,
they're going to be clueless about the rest of their animals.

Nikki

[sophie]

In message >, Sandy
Birrell > writes
>Aquarijen wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> What would you do?
>>
>> -Jen
>
>Short answer, GET INVOLVED :)
>
>Offer your services to them on a part time basis to get them up and started.
>They probably won't be able to pay you but the odd tub of food or treatment
>would do. Once you are sure they can do it themselves leave them to it and
>only call in to make sure it stays that way. You will be their friend for
>life, maybe :)

best way to do it: write a letter. If you go in to the shop to do it
they will be caught unawares and on the defensive which will almost
certainly make them cross. A friendly letter offering your help and
giving your experience is likely to get a better response...
--
sophie

[Seb]

Nikki Casali wrote:

>
>
> Aquarijen wrote:
>
>
>>
>> What would you do?
>
>
> If that store was in the UK I'd get the RSPCA round to do a complete
> inspection of the whole place. If they're clueless about the fish,
> they're going to be clueless about the rest of their animals.
>
> Nikki
>
Unfortunately the RSPCA itself may not have that many clues about fish!
An article from Aquarium Fishkeeping magazine says that as long as the
inspector sees the fish gets food regularly and has enough space to swim
around, that'll pass the grade. It's not surprising considering that
you'd need to know about dissolved oxygen and wastes and relatively few
people know their water chemistry.

Seb

[Brian S.]

LOL,

I would have to say, this is pretty funny. Feel bad that they are going to
waste all of their money on buying fish but eventually they will probably
throw out the idea of keeping fish.

I would almost ask the feller if you could be a part-owner and keep up the
fish-side of the store or request discounts on stuff that you need in
exchange for getting stuff setup for him.

Sounds kind of harsh, but they are gonna go bankrupt with the fish mess if
they aren't careful...

Brian S.

"Aquarijen" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
> Please forgive the cross post. I thought it relevant to the cichlid group
> but more people are on misc...
> What do you think about this...
> I anticipated the grand opening of a new LFS in my tiny town. The other
LFS
> is 20 miles away. So with a feeling of adventure, I went into the store
> yesterday. They have lots of snakes, 4 birds, several lizards. For a
store
> that has the word "aquatics" in the name, I was surprised to see only one
> fish tank. It was a 30 or 40 gallon. I could not see through to the back
> of the tank because it was so cloudy. I went closer. It was a white
milky
> cloudiness - the kind you get if you use pH-down. In this tank he had
> cichlids. He had rainbow cichlids, jack dempsys, green terrors, oscars,
> convicts, frontosas and fire mouths. The tank had blue gravel on the
> bottom, but nothing else except the heater, and an aqua clear filter.
> All the fire-mouths were dead. I noticed these cichlids were from
different
> lakes and had different requirements. When I asked about the cloudy water
> and pointed out the 5 dead firemouths, the owner said, "Oh, it is just
this
> ***** water" (name of town removed). I said I had several fish tanks that
> have no water cloudiness problems and that I live down the street. I
asked
> if he used any products to change the pH in the water. He looked at the
> girl co-owner, but didn't say that he had. He said the firemouths died
the
> day before and he thought they were sick from the breeder. I mentioned
that
> the cichlids in the tank were from different lakes and "are you sure that
is
> ok?" and he said, "a cichlid is a cichlid". The water in this town is
> perfect for most cichlids untreated. It has a pH a bit above 8 and is
hard.
> Not sure why he used pH down. Then I asked him when he got the fish.
Three
> days ago. And I asked if the tank was cycled and he looked at me like he
> didn't know what I was saying and said sure. I asked when the tank was
set
> up and he said "at least a week ago". The girl-owner then said, that they
> planned on having three more tanks set up with fish by the end of the
week.
>
> What should I do? These folks obviously have no fishkeeping knowledge
> beyond knowing that fish need water. I feel sorry for the fish - they are
> going to lose them all and that is saying something because they had at
> least 50 fish in there. Yes, 50 mixed cichlids in an uncycled 30 or 40
> gallon tank without hiding places and dead fish that had set at least
> overnight.
>
> What would you do?
>
> -Jen
>
>

[bassett]

Please take a bit of advice, and "Walk Away" What ever you try and do, at
the end of the day will be wrong.
He will go broke, and when he does he will be looking at someone to blame
for his stupidity.
While I have no doubt that you want to do the right thing, Unfortunately,
you can't communicate with a moron. If you go in there and tell him what he
should be doing, He will brand you a crank. If you offer to help him and
something else dies, It will be your fault, the attitude will be "It was OK
before you did anything"
At the moment he is buying stock, When he can't sell the stock, he will
not buy any more, Would you buy Fish or anything else when there was dead
stock still in the tank. Personnel if I see dirty tanks, never mind dead
fish, I,m out of the place without a second look, and I don,t go back.
But if you feel that strongly about it, Post his name and address here and
on any forums you visit, That way you will be saving fish and he will go
broke all the quicker.
bassett



"Brian S." > wrote in message
news:vgYcd.264274$MQ5.93715@attbi_s52...
> LOL,
>
> I would have to say, this is pretty funny. Feel bad that they are going
to
> waste all of their money on buying fish but eventually they will probably
> throw out the idea of keeping fish.
>
> I would almost ask the feller if you could be a part-owner and keep up the
> fish-side of the store or request discounts on stuff that you need in
> exchange for getting stuff setup for him.
>
> Sounds kind of harsh, but they are gonna go bankrupt with the fish mess if
> they aren't careful...
>
> Brian S.
>
> "Aquarijen" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi All,
> > Please forgive the cross post. I thought it relevant to the cichlid
group
> > but more people are on misc...
> > What do you think about this...
> > I anticipated the grand opening of a new LFS in my tiny town. The other
> LFS
> > is 20 miles away. So with a feeling of adventure, I went into the store
> > yesterday. They have lots of snakes, 4 birds, several lizards. For a
> store
> > that has the word "aquatics" in the name, I was surprised to see only
one
> > fish tank. It was a 30 or 40 gallon. I could not see through to the
back
> > of the tank because it was so cloudy. I went closer. It was a white
> milky
> > cloudiness - the kind you get if you use pH-down. In this tank he had
> > cichlids. He had rainbow cichlids, jack dempsys, green terrors, oscars,
> > convicts, frontosas and fire mouths. The tank had blue gravel on the
> > bottom, but nothing else except the heater, and an aqua clear filter.
> > All the fire-mouths were dead. I noticed these cichlids were from
> different
> > lakes and had different requirements. When I asked about the cloudy
water
> > and pointed out the 5 dead firemouths, the owner said, "Oh, it is just
> this
> > ***** water" (name of town removed). I said I had several fish tanks
that
> > have no water cloudiness problems and that I live down the street. I
> asked
> > if he used any products to change the pH in the water. He looked at the
> > girl co-owner, but didn't say that he had. He said the firemouths died
> the
> > day before and he thought they were sick from the breeder. I mentioned
> that
> > the cichlids in the tank were from different lakes and "are you sure
that
> is
> > ok?" and he said, "a cichlid is a cichlid". The water in this town is
> > perfect for most cichlids untreated. It has a pH a bit above 8 and is
> hard.
> > Not sure why he used pH down. Then I asked him when he got the fish.
> Three
> > days ago. And I asked if the tank was cycled and he looked at me like
he
> > didn't know what I was saying and said sure. I asked when the tank was
> set
> > up and he said "at least a week ago". The girl-owner then said, that
they
> > planned on having three more tanks set up with fish by the end of the
> week.
> >
> > What should I do? These folks obviously have no fishkeeping knowledge
> > beyond knowing that fish need water. I feel sorry for the fish - they
are
> > going to lose them all and that is saying something because they had at
> > least 50 fish in there. Yes, 50 mixed cichlids in an uncycled 30 or 40
> > gallon tank without hiding places and dead fish that had set at least
> > overnight.
> >
> > What would you do?
> >
> > -Jen
> >
> >
>
>

[Billy]

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
| But if you feel that strongly about it, Post his name and address
here and
| on any forums you visit, That way you will be saving fish and he
will go
| broke all the quicker.
| bassett


Bad idea. He could sue for slander. This does happen.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004

[bassett]

So if I write "Fred's Doe's Fish Shop" on the net, every Fred who owns a
fish shop, be it tropical of fried can sue me...Don,t think so..

Have you any idea just how complex it is to sue someone for slander on the
internet.
Firstly you have to locate the ISP posting the "slander", world wide, then
you will need to serve papers on every ISP that carried the slander, at
exactly the same time, world wide. It's not just a matter of
suing the writer, as the writer can't commit slander without someone
conveying the slander..

But lets say that, "Fred" does all the above and more, and after 12 months
work and a considerable amount of money, It finally gets to court, Fred
then has to prove that , what was written was in fact slander, Did he in
fact have dead fish in a tank, was his management
crap, etc,etc. Some how I don't think it;s going to happen, Do you.
Perhaps you could quote some cases where someone has sued for slander via
the internet.

bassett




"Billy" > wrote in message

Bad idea. He could sue for slander. This does happen

> "bassett" > wrote in message
> | But if you feel that strongly about it, Post his name and address
> here and
> | on any forums you visit, That way you will be saving fish and he
> will go
> | broke all the quicker.
> | bassett
>
>

[Aquarijen]

"Billy" > wrote in message
...
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
> | But if you feel that strongly about it, Post his name and address
> here and
> | on any forums you visit, That way you will be saving fish and he
> will go
> | broke all the quicker.
> | bassett
>
>
> Bad idea. He could sue for slander. This does happen.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004


Yeah, that's why I didn't mention any names in my original post. I've seen
the petswarehouse story. I think I have decided to walk away. I hate that
the fish will die, but I thought about offering help and came up with the
same idea as Brian S. Also, the rest of the store did not look well run. I
could put something better together in a weekend. Then I thought about my
impressions when I was talking to them. Nothing really against rednecks,
but I cannot imagine wanting to hang out with these people. That would take
more beer than is good for me (or the fish).

So, sorry poor cichlids.

-Jen

[Tedd Jacobs]

"bassett" wrote...
>
> So if I write "Fred's Doe's Fish Shop" on the net, every Fred who owns a
> fish shop, be it tropical of fried can sue me...Don,t think so..
>
> Have you any idea just how complex it is to sue someone for slander on the
> internet.
> Firstly you have to locate the ISP posting the "slander", world wide, then
> you will need to serve papers on every ISP that carried the slander, at
> exactly the same time, world wide. It's not just a matter of
> suing the writer, as the writer can't commit slander without someone
> conveying the slander..
>
> But lets say that, "Fred" does all the above and more, and after 12 months
> work and a considerable amount of money, It finally gets to court, Fred
> then has to prove that , what was written was in fact slander, Did he in
> fact have dead fish in a tank, was his management
> crap, etc,etc. Some how I don't think it;s going to happen, Do you.
> Perhaps you could quote some cases where someone has sued for slander via
> the internet.

bored with your fish?

[Mr Happy]

Slander is spoken
Libel is written

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[Mr Happy]

Hmm

I have had this problem with a 'pet shop' that was really a dog
grooming place but killed fish as a hobby

Option 1 was a polite discussion but as the guy had been in the
pet trade for 211 years and didn't need any help from the anyone
other solutions were sought

The answer was to go to the council and they sorted it out -
there are very few places in the world where supporting the
killing of animals through neglect is seen as an electoral plus
and as most town councils can do very little about the world in
general...fixing a tank or two is something they will jump at

Other suggestions

Direct action (someone painted - "Specialists in Animal
Cruelty" across the display window in whitewash)

Animal protection charities

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

the fun way is with the whitewash but it is difficult to get off
jeans


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[Happy'Cam'per]

ROFLMAO........HARHARHAR......Good on ya mate!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Mr Happy" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hmm
>
> I have had this problem with a 'pet shop' that was really a dog
> grooming place but killed fish as a hobby
>
> Option 1 was a polite discussion but as the guy had been in the
> pet trade for 211 years and didn't need any help from the anyone
> other solutions were sought
>
> The answer was to go to the council and they sorted it out -
> there are very few places in the world where supporting the
> killing of animals through neglect is seen as an electoral plus
> and as most town councils can do very little about the world in
> general...fixing a tank or two is something they will jump at
>
> Other suggestions
>
> Direct action (someone painted - "Specialists in Animal
> Cruelty" across the display window in whitewash)
>
> Animal protection charities
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
> the fun way is with the whitewash but it is difficult to get off
> jeans
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Posted with NewsLeecher v2.0 Beta 4
> * Binary Usenet Leeching Made Easy
> * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>

[McEve]

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
> Perhaps you could quote some cases where someone has sued for slander via
> the internet.

http://www.send2press.com/PRnetwire/pr04_100502-petswarehouse.shtml.

Look 10 posts below the OP in this thread.