Newbie: small African tank

[Toby Marsden]

Hi all,

I have a small (36"x15"x12") tank not doing anything at the moment -
and it's long been a dream to have a tank of colourful rift valley
fish.

I've done some reading-up, but would appreciate any pearls of wisdom
about stocking this tank...

- is it worth it; is this tank just too small?
- If I can do it, am I limited to small Tanganyikan fish? Obviously,
colourful things like Labidochromis caeruleus is on my wish list - but
I realise this might be out due to size and aggression.
- What sort of density should I be looking at to start with? I'm happy
to invest big in filters if slight overstocking would help with
aggression.

Thanks for any and all help!

Toby

[Amateur Cichlids]

I don't think your options are limited to the Tanganyikan shell dwellers,
but doing the Mbuna from Lake Malawi, IMO, wouldn't be good for your tank.
You may want to look into a pair of Julidochromis regani from the "Kipili"
area of Lake Tanganyika, as they can be quite colorful. You may also
consider a trio of Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps also from Lake
Tanganyika. I'm pretty sure you'll get responses saying Labids, P. saulosi,
P. demasoni, Cynotilapia or other small Mbuna will do fine, and you'll
probably hear some testimonies to the fact. IMO, the tank is too small for
Mbuna.
The shell dwellers from Lake Tanganyika are very interesting to watch
interact and can make for a great tank. Just a thought. =)
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

[Toby Marsden]

Tim,

"Amateur Cichlids" > wrote in message >...
> I don't think your options are limited to the Tanganyikan shell dwellers,
> but doing the Mbuna from Lake Malawi, IMO, wouldn't be good for your tank.
> You may want to look into a pair of Julidochromis regani from the "Kipili"
> area of Lake Tanganyika, as they can be quite colorful. You may also
> consider a trio of Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps also from Lake
> Tanganyika. I'm pretty sure you'll get responses saying Labids, P. saulosi,
> P. demasoni, Cynotilapia or other small Mbuna will do fine, and you'll
> probably hear some testimonies to the fact. IMO, the tank is too small for
> Mbuna.
> The shell dwellers from Lake Tanganyika are very interesting to watch
> interact and can make for a great tank. Just a thought. =)

Thanks. I understand - there's no point pushing it if I end up with
dead or stressed fish.

With the shell dwellers (and they do sound fascinating) - what sort of
stocking density should I look towards for my 36" tank? Can several
species be kept together, as is suggested by some articles on the net,
or is it better to combine a single pair/harem with other Tanganyikan
"community" fish - if they exist?

Thanks again for your help!

Toby

[Mcfish]

Toby,
I'm gonna chime in & be one of the opposites. I think your tank
sounds close to the size of a 30gal. long. If it is there's no reason
that you couldnt keep a small colony(6-10 fish) of Yellow Labs. Maybe
a few other fish as dithers & your preferrence tank is ready to go.
HTH
__________________________________________________
Posted via FishGeeks - http://Aquaria.info

[Amateur Cichlids]

"Mcfish" > wrote in message
...
> Toby,
> I'm gonna chime in & be one of the opposites. I think your tank
> sounds close to the size of a 30gal. long. If it is there's no reason
> that you couldnt keep a small colony(6-10 fish) of Yellow Labs. Maybe
> a few other fish as dithers & your preferrence tank is ready to go.
> HTH

The Labidochromis caeruleus and other insectivorous Labid species are the
more docile of the Labidochromis. This excludes the L. sp "mbamba" and the
L. sp "hongi" species. The yellow labids in the wild, are usually found
solitary. Keeping more than one male, IMO would definitely be a recipe for
fin nipping, chasing and most likely death. Keeping 6-10 fish as suggested
would spread aggression out through over stocking which is a common practice
in keeping Mbuna. Whether over stocking is the way to go, is entirely up the
person keeping the fish, but less and less my choice as I learn more. Ad
Konings lists minimum size tank for this species to grow to full size as
only 15 gallons in "Back to nature guid to Malawi Cichlids", but recommends
a tank size of 40 gallons for keeping them in "Enjoying Cichlids". He
further states that if kept with any other Mbuna, an 80 gallon tank would be
better.
Tim

[Amateur Cichlids]

"Toby Marsden" > wrote in message
om...

> Thanks. I understand - there's no point pushing it if I end up with
> dead or stressed fish.
>
> With the shell dwellers (and they do sound fascinating) - what sort of
> stocking density should I look towards for my 36" tank? Can several
> species be kept together, as is suggested by some articles on the net,
> or is it better to combine a single pair/harem with other Tanganyikan
> "community" fish - if they exist?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> Toby

Keeping more than two species of shellies in your tank could be rough
with some of the more popular species out there. You could keep a fairly
large colony of Lamprologus multifasciatus or Lamprologus similis easily in
your tank. Perhaps 10-12, keeping in mind they'll breed and the colony will
grow. The Lamprologus ocellatus and L. brevis pair off and may be more
difficult to keep more than a pair in a smaller tank. They become very
territorial when breeding and have been known to bite a hand or two. The L.
ornatipinnis, Neolamprologus signatus or Telmatachromis temporalis 'shell'
you may be able to do with a pair of Julidochromis or possibly a pair of
gobies. You should allow a 20" area for the male to defend around the shell.
This doesn't give much space, but may leave enough for another species to
share.
I've only kept L. brevis and L. multifasciatus so far, so you may want
to check with some of the people on our forum who've kept and bred a larger
array of types and what they had for tankmates.
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

[Eric Ryan]

L. brevis have really small territories, so you could easily keep a two
pairs of them in your tank along with a rock dwelling species like Julies (a
pair) or altolamprologus. I think 4-6 N. multifasciatus or 3-4 N. brevis
along with a pair or trio of altolamprologus (or a pair of julies) would
make for a great tank.

Eric

"Amateur Cichlids" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Toby Marsden" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>> Thanks. I understand - there's no point pushing it if I end up with
>> dead or stressed fish.
>>
>> With the shell dwellers (and they do sound fascinating) - what sort of
>> stocking density should I look towards for my 36" tank? Can several
>> species be kept together, as is suggested by some articles on the net,
>> or is it better to combine a single pair/harem with other Tanganyikan
>> "community" fish - if they exist?
>>
>> Thanks again for your help!
>>
>> Toby
>
> Keeping more than two species of shellies in your tank could be rough
> with some of the more popular species out there. You could keep a fairly
> large colony of Lamprologus multifasciatus or Lamprologus similis easily
> in your tank. Perhaps 10-12, keeping in mind they'll breed and the colony
> will grow. The Lamprologus ocellatus and L. brevis pair off and may be
> more difficult to keep more than a pair in a smaller tank. They become
> very territorial when breeding and have been known to bite a hand or two.
> The L. ornatipinnis, Neolamprologus signatus or Telmatachromis temporalis
> 'shell' you may be able to do with a pair of Julidochromis or possibly a
> pair of gobies. You should allow a 20" area for the male to defend around
> the shell. This doesn't give much space, but may leave enough for another
> species to share.
> I've only kept L. brevis and L. multifasciatus so far, so you may want
> to check with some of the people on our forum who've kept and bred a
> larger array of types and what they had for tankmates.
> Tim
> www.fishaholics.org
>
>

[Toby Marsden]

Thanks for your replies everyone - I'm getting a better idea of what I
want now.

"Amateur Cichlids" > wrote in message >...
> Keeping more than two species of shellies in your tank could be rough
> with some of the more popular species out there. You could keep a fairly
> large colony of Lamprologus multifasciatus or Lamprologus similis easily in
> your tank. Perhaps 10-12, keeping in mind they'll breed and the colony will
> grow. The Lamprologus ocellatus and L. brevis pair off and may be more
> difficult to keep more than a pair in a smaller tank. They become very
> territorial when breeding and have been known to bite a hand or two. The L.
> snip

I've fallen for the idea of keeping L. ocellatus. Presumably it's not
easy/possible to sex juveniles at the LFS to obtain a pair - so what's
the best way forward? Put a few in, and expect to have to remove some
if the male/female balance is wrong?? That doesn't seem ideal, but is
there an alternative?

I was looking at Cyprichromis leptosoma as pelagic tankmates - three
to five of these maybe. Or are there reasonable alternatives with L.
ocellatus in a 36"/23 gal?

Thanks again everyone!

Toby

[Amateur Cichlids]

"Toby Marsden" > wrote in message
...

> I've fallen for the idea of keeping L. ocellatus. Presumably it's not
> easy/possible to sex juveniles at the LFS to obtain a pair - so what's
> the best way forward? Put a few in, and expect to have to remove some
> if the male/female balance is wrong?? That doesn't seem ideal, but is
> there an alternative?
>
> I was looking at Cyprichromis leptosoma as pelagic tankmates - three
> to five of these maybe. Or are there reasonable alternatives with L.
> ocellatus in a 36"/23 gal?
>
> Thanks again everyone!
>
> Toby

If you're going for the ocellatus, make sure you get the "gold" geographic
variant as opposed to the ever present "blue" strain continuously sold as
"gold". I like 55 gallon tanks or larger for Cyprichromis species. They can
be delicate and stress fairly easily. Also, in the Lake, they were always in
huge schools by the hundreds, keeping just a few in a small tank just seems
wrong to me. For the L. ocellatus, you'll want to get a few juveniles and
allow them to pair off.
Tim

[[email protected]]

On 19 Oct 2004 23:52:25 -0700, (Toby Marsden) wrote:

>
>I was looking at Cyprichromis leptosoma as pelagic tankmates - three
>to five of these maybe. Or are there reasonable alternatives with L.
>ocellatus in a 36"/23 gal?
>

Toby,

Your e-mail address suggests you are in the UK. The fishes you have
mentioned were readily available years ago but I thought the imports
had slowed to a trickle. Where or you finding these Tanganyika species
to choose from?


Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
Build networks from numeric, text and image files.
http://www.easynn.com

[Toby Marsden]

wrote in message >...
> On 19 Oct 2004 23:52:25 -0700, (Toby Marsden) wrote:
>
> >
> >I was looking at Cyprichromis leptosoma as pelagic tankmates - three
> >to five of these maybe. Or are there reasonable alternatives with L.
> >ocellatus in a 36"/23 gal?
> >
>
> Toby,
>
> Your e-mail address suggests you are in the UK. The fishes you have
> mentioned were readily available years ago but I thought the imports
> had slowed to a trickle. Where or you finding these Tanganyika species
> to choose from?

If all else fails, I can get these from Maidenhead Aquatics -- both
branches I've tried had one or other of the species, and expected to
be able to order both within 2 weeks. Maidenhead Aquatics in Newbury
had probably a dozen Tanganyika species including shelldewellers in
their holding tanks (though goodness knows who they're selling them
to, and whether people understand their care...?).

Cheers,

Toby

[Mr Happy]

One trick is to make sure that the different fish you stock with
are Different colours and Different body shapes - tends to
reduce agression

Waht do yu want to do.....you could form a breeding group with a
male and 2/3 females as the male will go in to full colour or, a
mixed tank

The way I did a 'pretty' tank for my mother was with small
tanganyikans - easier and you can still get a fair degree of
colour...yellow/violet/black/striped
Baby Fronts might be fun and they are easy to sell on as they
get bigger - get 6 at 1.5 inches - usually your LFS will swap
them for smaller fish as there is a good market for 'grown on'
good quality fronts

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