lights or COs first?

[Spyder2x]

Hello all,

I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over a
135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for plants
right?) Thanks for any help.


--Jim--

[Brian S.]

Definitely light is more important.

Plants need the following essentials in this order: Light, carbon dioxide,
and trace nutrients.

The trace nutrients are typically made available from uneaten food and fish
waste.

Brian S.

"Spyder2x" > wrote in message
news:3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07...
> Hello all,
>
> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
> lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
> currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over
a
> 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
plants
> right?) Thanks for any help.
>
>
> --Jim--
>
>

[Spyder2x]

Ok, Great...Thanks Brian. I do wonder though if the Metal Halide lights are
ok. The wife says she read that the k-level is too low? After I first read
your post I went down and purchased 4 175 watt MH fixtures...then I get home
and hear her news. It is a freshwater tank that I hope to plant heavily. If
that helps.

--Jim--

"Brian S." > wrote in message
news:TVjdd.287960$3l3.171220@attbi_s03...
> Definitely light is more important.
>
> Plants need the following essentials in this order: Light, carbon
> dioxide,
> and trace nutrients.
>
> The trace nutrients are typically made available from uneaten food and
> fish
> waste.
>
> Brian S.
>
> "Spyder2x" > wrote in message
> news:3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07...
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
>> lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
>> currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over
> a
>> 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
> plants
>> right?) Thanks for any help.
>>
>>
>> --Jim--
>>
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

"Spyder2x" > wrote in message news:<3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07>...
> Hello all,
>
> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
> lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
> currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over a
> 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for plants
> right?) Thanks for any help.
>
>
> --Jim--

CO2.
Even at low light, your plant gain by having the maximum amount of CO2
to drive Carbon fixation, thus getting the most out of the available
light.

If you add lots of light first, you will get algae unless your CO2
system can keep up with it.

If you look around(see Dlink's page for CO2 systems, add a needle
valve though), you can find some cheap systems.

DIY MHs are also popular depending on your skills.

You'll need 3 x 150w or 175 w for a decent spread on a 135 gal

You will also be comfortable with CO2 before trying to run things at
high light.

Lights are pretth easy to learn how to yuse, turn on for 11 hours etc
then turn off for 13.

Not much to it.

CO2? You need to dail in a decent amount with low light now, then when
you add more light(then you have more CO2 uptake as well) you'll
already have a good feel how to adjust your system and this approach
to adding the CO2 first will minimize chance of algal blooms.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Happy'Cam'per]

I would MOST DEFINITELY take Tom's advice, you WANT the co2 first, light is
secondary.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

" > wrote in message
om...
> "Spyder2x" > wrote in message
news:<3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07>...
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
> > lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
> > currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights
over a
> > 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
plants
> > right?) Thanks for any help.
> >
> >
> > --Jim--
>
> CO2.
> Even at low light, your plant gain by having the maximum amount of CO2
> to drive Carbon fixation, thus getting the most out of the available
> light.
>
> If you add lots of light first, you will get algae unless your CO2
> system can keep up with it.
>
> If you look around(see Dlink's page for CO2 systems, add a needle
> valve though), you can find some cheap systems.
>
> DIY MHs are also popular depending on your skills.
>
> You'll need 3 x 150w or 175 w for a decent spread on a 135 gal
>
> You will also be comfortable with CO2 before trying to run things at
> high light.
>
> Lights are pretth easy to learn how to yuse, turn on for 11 hours etc
> then turn off for 13.
>
> Not much to it.
>
> CO2? You need to dail in a decent amount with low light now, then when
> you add more light(then you have more CO2 uptake as well) you'll
> already have a good feel how to adjust your system and this approach
> to adding the CO2 first will minimize chance of algal blooms.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Barr

[Brian S.]

Well,

Metal Halide does provide more powerful lights in a smaller area, but I
would recommend the compact fluorescent fixtures over metal halide.

The reason I say this is because metal halide gives off A LOT of heat which
can adversely affect your water temperature. They also suck a lot of power
too so your power bill will be higher.

With compact fluroescents, they are rumored to use 1/3 the power of a
typical fluorescent bulb but gives off 3 times the power as the standard
bulb. In addition to that, they don't have near as much heat output as
metal halide.

Compact fluorescents also are a bit less expensive than metal halide.

Not really sure what size tank you have, but if you provide up to 5 watts
per gallon of water, you will have plenty of good growing plants.

On the flip side, you also have to be careful what plants you choose because
some plants cannot put up with the very bright lighting and can turn leaves
transparent colors or even kill them.

Brian S.

"Spyder2x" > wrote in message
news:aTkdd.50295$hj.23109@fed1read07...
> Ok, Great...Thanks Brian. I do wonder though if the Metal Halide lights
are
> ok. The wife says she read that the k-level is too low? After I first read
> your post I went down and purchased 4 175 watt MH fixtures...then I get
home
> and hear her news. It is a freshwater tank that I hope to plant heavily.
If
> that helps.
>
> --Jim--
>
> "Brian S." > wrote in message
> news:TVjdd.287960$3l3.171220@attbi_s03...
> > Definitely light is more important.
> >
> > Plants need the following essentials in this order: Light, carbon
> > dioxide,
> > and trace nutrients.
> >
> > The trace nutrients are typically made available from uneaten food and
> > fish
> > waste.
> >
> > Brian S.
> >
> > "Spyder2x" > wrote in message
> > news:3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07...
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a
nice
> >> lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
> >> currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights
over
> > a
> >> 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
> > plants
> >> right?) Thanks for any help.
> >>
> >>
> >> --Jim--
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Brian S.]

So just as a figure, you are saying that plants can use carbon dioxide
without any light?

Even at one watt per gallon, you can overbear your fish with carbon dioxide
levels if there isn't enough light for the plants to perform photosynthesis.

Algae is an unfortunate side effect of having light, and every tank has some
sort of algae.

I have about 2 watts per gallon on my 29 gallon aquarium (one 65 watt
compact fluorescent bulb) and I am also putting in Co2 using the yeast
method, and I still have trouble with algae.

Brian S.

"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message
...
>
> I would MOST DEFINITELY take Tom's advice, you WANT the co2 first, light
is
> secondary.
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**
>
> " > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Spyder2x" > wrote in message
> news:<3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07>...
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a
nice
> > > lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first?
I
> > > currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights
> over a
> > > 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
> plants
> > > right?) Thanks for any help.
> > >
> > >
> > > --Jim--
> >
> > CO2.
> > Even at low light, your plant gain by having the maximum amount of CO2
> > to drive Carbon fixation, thus getting the most out of the available
> > light.
> >
> > If you add lots of light first, you will get algae unless your CO2
> > system can keep up with it.
> >
> > If you look around(see Dlink's page for CO2 systems, add a needle
> > valve though), you can find some cheap systems.
> >
> > DIY MHs are also popular depending on your skills.
> >
> > You'll need 3 x 150w or 175 w for a decent spread on a 135 gal
> >
> > You will also be comfortable with CO2 before trying to run things at
> > high light.
> >
> > Lights are pretth easy to learn how to yuse, turn on for 11 hours etc
> > then turn off for 13.
> >
> > Not much to it.
> >
> > CO2? You need to dail in a decent amount with low light now, then when
> > you add more light(then you have more CO2 uptake as well) you'll
> > already have a good feel how to adjust your system and this approach
> > to adding the CO2 first will minimize chance of algal blooms.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tom Barr
>
>

[[email protected]]

"Brian S." > wrote in message news:<MPwdd.291928$3l3.272184@attbi_s03>...
> So just as a figure, you are saying that plants can use carbon dioxide
> without any light?

He has light, 100watts.

> Even at one watt per gallon, you can overbear your fish with carbon dioxide
> levels if there isn't enough light for the plants to perform photosynthesis.

Overbear your fish?

CO2 whether it's in a high or low light tank does not harm fish at
20-30ppm range.
Light plays _no role_ except perhaps to drive more uptake in which
case you increase the RATE, not the level of ppm of CO2.

I really have no idea what your point is here.

> Algae is an unfortunate side effect of having light, and every tank has some
> sort of algae.

Algae management, not eradication.
Less light+good CO2 will prevent algae much more than high light+no
CO2.

Not sure why this concept seems troubling for you.

Try it and see then you'll not say this any longer:)

> I have about 2 watts per gallon on my 29 gallon aquarium (one 65 watt
> compact fluorescent bulb) and I am also putting in Co2 using the yeast
> method, and I still have trouble with algae.
> Brian S.

Hummm........well I do not have any trouble with algae. I have non
CO2, low light CO2, high light CO2, Marine all planted tanks.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=funtcb3&x=12&y=7

You need to work on your CO2 first, then make sure it's 20-30ppm.
Once you accomplish this, then you can work on nutrients which is
rather easy and simple.

See here:

http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles.html

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Spyder2x]

Ok guys, I didn't want to start an argument. So I now have the light
fixtures, and a CO2 tank. Where would be the best place to spend my
(limited) funds? The regulator and diffuser, Or the mounting hardware for
the lights?


--Jim--

"Spyder2x" > wrote in message
news:3gidd.50272$hj.29843@fed1read07...
> Hello all,
>
> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
> lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
> currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over
> a 135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for
> plants right?) Thanks for any help.
>
>
> --Jim--
>
>

[www.Fish-Forums.com]

Mh is fine for plants many people do this. I myself prefer pc power
compacts.

As for whoich one first i sugest the co2 . To much lighitng without
co2 will coause more algae.
co2 without 2 much light on the other hand should couase no problems

Marc
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______
Want to win a FREE new co2 system or a lighting system check out our
forum for our newest contest coming up

http://www.fish-forums.com

Http://www.aquatic-store.com



On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:25:34 -0700, "Spyder2x" >
wrote:

>Hello all,
>
> I am wanting to add both a pressurized CO2 and a nice
>lighting system. My question though is which one should I add first? I
>currently have a DIY CO2, and around 100 watts of flourescent lights over a
>135 U.S. Gal tank. The lights will be Metal Halide (these are ok for plants
>right?) Thanks for any help.
>
>
> --Jim--
>

[[email protected]]

"Spyder2x" > wrote in message news:<CQCdd.51337$hj.45573@fed1read07>...
> Ok guys, I didn't want to start an argument. So I now have the light
> fixtures, and a CO2 tank. Where would be the best place to spend my
> (limited) funds? The regulator and diffuser, Or the mounting hardware for
> the lights?
>
>
> --Jim--

Naw, no arguement personally, just one about a plant issue.
Regulator(run 30-55$ or so) and a needle valve(www.clippard.com sells
one for about 11$ which is what I've use for about years now, there
are other that cost more and are nice as well, look around, you will
need one of these to dose the CO2). If you have few $, feed the gas
into the filter intake for now and make a DIY diffuser/reactor(0-10$
or + a powerhead(eg a rio 180 will suffice))later.
Do the lights next.

If you are interested, I know a place that sells a nice MH light set
up for 150$ each for German made HQI 150w MH pendents that are much
snmaller than the 175w globes. They look sleek as well, come with bulb
+ everything etc.
I use either these HQI 150w bulbs or the Powercompact lights, both are
good choices over the long run.

You can also make an open top PC light set up if you wish(I have one).

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Jiann-Ming Su]

On 2004-10-20, Spyder2x > wrote:
> Ok, Great...Thanks Brian. I do wonder though if the Metal Halide lights are
> ok. The wife says she read that the k-level is too low? After I first read
> your post I went down and purchased 4 175 watt MH fixtures...then I get home
> and hear her news. It is a freshwater tank that I hope to plant heavily. If
> that helps.
>

Or, try a four T12 bulb shop light and get the sunlight or plant bulbs from
Lowes or Home Depot for $6/bulb. Search for "Fluorescent Lights" at
http://www.mcmaster.com. You can get shop lights at Lowes or Home
Depot as well.


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman