sick cold water fish

[dotdotdot]

A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already holding a
moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them first and there was
no problem until this weekend when I did a 20% water change and also changed
one of the sponges in the filter (leaving the other one for the bacteria).
One of the pearl scales has died and all the others (which are normally
quite active) are just hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in
corners. I checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday with
not a lot of success.
any suggestions anyone?

[Geezer From The Freezer]

dotdotdot wrote:
>
> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already holding a
> moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them first and there was
> no problem until this weekend when I did a 20% water change and also changed
> one of the sponges in the filter (leaving the other one for the bacteria).
> One of the pearl scales has died and all the others (which are normally
> quite active) are just hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in
> corners. I checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday with
> not a lot of success.
> any suggestions anyone?

Check your ammonia and nitrAte levels. Try a bigger water change 40% ever couple
of
days.

[dotdotdot]

> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already
> holding a moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them
> first and there was no problem until this weekend when I did a 20%
> water change and also changed one of the sponges in the filter
> (leaving the other one for the bacteria). One of the pearl scales has
> died and all the others (which are normally quite active) are just
> hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in corners. I
> checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday
> with not a lot of success. any suggestions anyone?

OK, I've done a 20% water change then a 40% water change next day but they
don't look any better. The water levels are:
PH 6.8, Nitrite 0.25ppm, ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrate 10ppm, so it doesn't
indicate a water problem. They seem to want to sit on the bottom with their
noses pressed into a rock or a corner although they CAN swim if moved. What
about swim bladder problems, could it be that? Or could they be constipated?
how about I try them with some peas (and if so how do I prepare them?)
Thanks for any help

[MattO]

"dotdotdot" <djhatukpcdotnet> wrote in message
...
>> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already
>> holding a moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them
>> first and there was no problem until this weekend when I did a 20%
>> water change and also changed one of the sponges in the filter
>> (leaving the other one for the bacteria). One of the pearl scales has
>> died and all the others (which are normally quite active) are just
>> hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in corners. I
>> checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
>> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday
>> with not a lot of success. any suggestions anyone?
>
> OK, I've done a 20% water change then a 40% water change next day but they
> don't look any better. The water levels are:
> PH 6.8, Nitrite 0.25ppm, ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrate 10ppm, so it doesn't
> indicate a water problem. They seem to want to sit on the bottom with
> their noses pressed into a rock or a corner although they CAN swim if
> moved. What about swim bladder problems, could it be that? Or could they
> be constipated? how about I try them with some peas (and if so how do I
> prepare them?)
> Thanks for any help

You increase fishload by 60%, 1 dies, all are ill, you have measurable
ammonia and nitrites and you conclude it doesn't indicate a water quality
problem - I disagree - since you measure nitrate I'd say your tank was
established before you added these latest fish, but it's re-cycling now,
and probably overstocked with 4 GF in... what size is the tank? Keep doing
water changes every day to keep ammonia and nitrite at lowest measurable
levels. In an established tank no ammonia or nitrite should be measurable -
once you get there, then you can reduce water change schedule to manage
nitrate below 20ppm

A 20% water change is not very much, 1 big WC is much more effective at
diluting cooties than 2 smaller ones. Consider the percentages - if ammonia
is 0.25ppm and you replace 20% of the water, ammonia is reduced to 0.20ppm.
another 20% WC brings that down to 16ppm, while a single 40% WC would have
reduced initial 0.25 level to 15ppm. Or, working it backwards. 0.25ppm
measured after two WC of 40% and 20% (as you say you have done over past 2
days) indicates level was 0.52ppm before those 2 WC.
~ Matto

[[email protected]]

pearls have pretty specific requirements.
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care3.htm#PEARL
however, I think your problem is toxic water.
do 50% water changes every day for 7 days. Add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons.
Use rock salt with no additives. otherwise use table salt dissolve first and mix in
slowly.
you dont say how big your tank is, but I will bet it is 10 or 20 gallon and the
pearls overwhelmed the filter then you removed one of the sponges. sponges almost
never should be changed rather they should be squeezed out in treated water and
returned. there should be no ammonia or nitrites and nitrates at or below 20 ppm.
an ammonia spike could have wiped out the biofilter.
INgrid

"dotdotdot" > wrote:

>A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already holding a
>moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them first and there was
>no problem until this weekend when I did a 20% water change and also changed
>one of the sponges in the filter (leaving the other one for the bacteria).
>One of the pearl scales has died and all the others (which are normally
>quite active) are just hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in
>corners. I checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
>another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday with
>not a lot of success.
>any suggestions anyone?
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

toxic water. change water add a bit of salt, do NOT add medications. there isnt any
fine salt like grains on any of the fish is there? Ingrid

"dotdotdot" <djhatukpcdotnet> wrote:

>> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already
>> holding a moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them
>> first and there was no problem until this weekend when I did a 20%
>> water change and also changed one of the sponges in the filter
>> (leaving the other one for the bacteria). One of the pearl scales has
>> died and all the others (which are normally quite active) are just
>> hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in corners. I
>> checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
>> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday
>> with not a lot of success. any suggestions anyone?
>
>OK, I've done a 20% water change then a 40% water change next day but they
>don't look any better. The water levels are:
>PH 6.8, Nitrite 0.25ppm, ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrate 10ppm, so it doesn't
>indicate a water problem. They seem to want to sit on the bottom with their
>noses pressed into a rock or a corner although they CAN swim if moved. What
>about swim bladder problems, could it be that? Or could they be constipated?
>how about I try them with some peas (and if so how do I prepare them?)
>Thanks for any help
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Denise hurst]

wrote:

> toxic water. change water add a bit of salt, do NOT add medications. there
isnt any
> fine salt like grains on any of the fish is there? Ingrid

(Replying via news seach since my news reader seems t be playing up)
Yes, my moor has over the last 24 hours got fine white dots on his fins.
HELP - What do i do?

[dotdotdot]

> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already
> holding a moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them
> first and there was no problem until this weekend when I did a 20%
> water change and also changed one of the sponges in the filter
> (leaving the other one for the bacteria). One of the pearl scales has
> died and all the others (which are normally quite active) are just
> hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in corners. I
> checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday
> with not a lot of success. any suggestions anyone?

My apologies - my newsreader seems to be randomly deleting messages and I'm
having to try to catch up via Usenet so not sure if this is appearing twice
or not.
The tank is 30 gal (with a 45 gal preparing as we speak - still too new to
use). The moor has now developed pin like white spots. Do I still do the 50%
water changes adding salt (I have aquarium salt). Anything else. should
point out that I've had these for 3 years and they've been extremely healthy
during that time and adding the pearlscales didn't cause any problems until
I did the water change and change and changed the filter (thought I was
improving their environment :-( and I did only change one sponge and washed
them both I the outgoing water)

[dotdotdot]

>> A couple of weeks ago I added 2 pearl scales to my tank already
>> holding a moor, a celestial and a fan tail. I'd quarantined them
>> first and there was no problem until this weekend when I did a 20%
>> water change and also changed one of the sponges in the filter
>> (leaving the other one for the bacteria). One of the pearl scales has
>> died and all the others (which are normally quite active) are just
>> hanging around on the bottom of the tank or hiding in corners. I
>> checked the water and both the Ph and nitrites were fine. I did
>> another 10% water change the day after and another 20% one yesterday
>> with not a lot of success. any suggestions anyone?
>
> My apologies - my newsreader seems to be randomly deleting messages
> and I'm having to try to catch up via Usenet so not sure if this is
> appearing twice or not.
> The tank is 30 gal (with a 45 gal preparing as we speak - still too
> new to use). The moor has now developed pin like white spots. Do I
> still do the 50% water changes adding salt (I have aquarium salt).
> Anything else. should point out that I've had these for 3 years and
> they've been extremely healthy during that time and adding the
> pearlscales didn't cause any problems until I did the water change
> and change and changed the filter (thought I was improving their
> environment :-( and I did only change one sponge and washed them
> both I the outgoing water)

Now done 50% water change, added 1tsp of aquarium salt for every 5 gals. Did
NOT add any "tap safe" or similar.
PH is 7, ammonia nil, Nitrite nil, nitrate still 10. No real improvement in
fish.

[[email protected]]

pin like white spots where? around head only these could be breeding stars.
anywhere else this could be ich (like salt crystals) or epistylis.
fresh water aquarium salt is fine, dont use marine.
you must use dechlor!!! if you have city water, not a well and they add chlorine or
chloramine.
it could be a temperature drop brought on ich. if so, run the temp up to 76oF and
use quick cure every other day for 3 days. do partial water change on day QC not
added.
if you dont see the little ich grains, keep doing water changes and add a bit of
salt. Ingrid

"dotdotdot" <djhatukpcdotnet> wrote:
>> The tank is 30 gal (with a 45 gal preparing as we speak - still too
>> new to use). The moor has now developed pin like white spots. Do I
>> still do the 50% water changes adding salt (I have aquarium salt).
>> Anything else. should point out that I've had these for 3 years and
>> they've been extremely healthy during that time and adding the
>> pearlscales didn't cause any problems until I did the water change
>> and change and changed the filter (thought I was improving their
>> environment :-( and I did only change one sponge and washed them
>> both I the outgoing water)
>
>Now done 50% water change, added 1tsp of aquarium salt for every 5 gals. Did
>NOT add any "tap safe" or similar.
>PH is 7, ammonia nil, Nitrite nil, nitrate still 10. No real improvement in
>fish.
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.