Nitrates

[Tom Puskar]

I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.

I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid off.

Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use to
extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.

Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting old!

--
Tom Puskar
34 Old Bridge Drive
Howell, NJ 07731
Phone: 732-905-5728
Fax: 732-905-5847

[Bill Stock]

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
et...
> I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
> gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.

That's a big GF tank!

> I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
off.
>
> Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use
to
> extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
> every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.

I'm in the same boat. I do water changes every 7-10 days, but Nitrates still
creep up. I did find that plants helped to keep the Nitrates down, although
GF love to nibble.

I'm considering a LARGE external veggie filter, likely a garbage can filled
with Water Hyacinths.

> Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
old!

I use a Python myself.

> --
> Tom Puskar
> 34 Old Bridge Drive
> Howell, NJ 07731
> Phone: 732-905-5728
> Fax: 732-905-5847
>
>

[Szaki]

Nitra-Zorb pouch ($12) gets rid of nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. Place it in
your filter and let the water flow through it.
It has to be recharged every 2 days, in salt water solution, takes 4 hours
or so.
I usually do it over night.
If you have Nitrate problems constantly, just live it in there all the time.
Removes 20 ppm of Nitrate in 48 hours in a 55 gallon tank, using the 7.5 oz
bag.

Julius

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
et...
> I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
> gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>
> I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
off.
>
> Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use
to
> extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
> every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>
> Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
old!
>
> --
> Tom Puskar
> 34 Old Bridge Drive
> Howell, NJ 07731
> Phone: 732-905-5728
> Fax: 732-905-5847
>
>

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Tom Puskar wrote:
>
> I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
> gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>
> I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid off.
>
> Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use to
> extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
> every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>
> Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting old!
>

Get a python, your water changes will take about 30-40 minutes then!
30 minutes every 10 days is nothing really!

[Tom L. La Bron]

Tom,

Nitrates are inevitable. It means you cylcing is working. If you don't
have some thing to remove your nitrates likes plants growing in your tanks
all the nitrates do is build up.

Nitrates are one of those situations what get blamed for a lot of problems
in tanks. If you have (Comets, Wakins, Common) torpedo shaped fish they can
handle high nitrates. As the fish gets more oranament, such as Orandas,
Demekins, etc. the nitrate level should be kept below 50ppm unless there is
some other response by the fish in the tank. Some problems have been seen
by other Goldfish Keepers, but personally, I have not seen any. My Ranchus
are occasionally in environments where the nitrates are higher than 50ppm
and have never shown distress, but this is the exception not the rule..

Now, for the most part though my nitrates are usually in the zero range. I
succeed in doing this by growing Philodendrons out of my tanks and tubs.
This plant is great for this for it removes a lot of nitrates grows in water
well and also does well in low light.

The only other way to keep nitrates down is more frequent water changes.
Also draw the water off the bottom of the tank when you are doing this
especially if you have "high" sided tanks.

The two techniques I have mentioned are the easiest and quickest way to
lower you nitrates and deffiently a better option than putting stuff in your
tanks to do it.

HTH

Tom L.L.
=============================

"Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
et...
>I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
>gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>
> I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
> off.
>
> Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use
> to extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
> every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>
> Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
> old!
>
> --
> Tom Puskar
> 34 Old Bridge Drive
> Howell, NJ 07731
> Phone: 732-905-5728
> Fax: 732-905-5847
>

[Szaki]

Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
I keep my eye on Nitrates all the time, #1 silent killer for fish. For a
long time, I didn't know why my fish get sick or dyeing, water looks clean
and changed it.
If it goes over 40 ppm I change water until it comes down. I also use low
light hardy float plants, don't need roots.
When changing water I buy filtered water, has nothing in it, than I add
buffer and adjust my PH, much better.
My tank is 20 gal, if you have a large tank, maybe it's a good idea to
invest into a good water filtering system.
My tap water all ready has 15 ppm Nitrates, but any one should test tap
water at home to make sure.

Julius

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Tom,
>
> Nitrates are inevitable. It means you cylcing is working. If you don't
> have some thing to remove your nitrates likes plants growing in your tanks
> all the nitrates do is build up.
>
> Nitrates are one of those situations what get blamed for a lot of problems
> in tanks. If you have (Comets, Wakins, Common) torpedo shaped fish they
can
> handle high nitrates. As the fish gets more oranament, such as Orandas,
> Demekins, etc. the nitrate level should be kept below 50ppm unless there
is
> some other response by the fish in the tank. Some problems have been seen
> by other Goldfish Keepers, but personally, I have not seen any. My
Ranchus
> are occasionally in environments where the nitrates are higher than 50ppm
> and have never shown distress, but this is the exception not the rule..
>
> Now, for the most part though my nitrates are usually in the zero range.
I
> succeed in doing this by growing Philodendrons out of my tanks and tubs.
> This plant is great for this for it removes a lot of nitrates grows in
water
> well and also does well in low light.
>
> The only other way to keep nitrates down is more frequent water changes.
> Also draw the water off the bottom of the tank when you are doing this
> especially if you have "high" sided tanks.
>
> The two techniques I have mentioned are the easiest and quickest way to
> lower you nitrates and deffiently a better option than putting stuff in
your
> tanks to do it.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom L.L.
> =============================
>
> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> et...
> >I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
> >gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
> >
> > I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
> > off.
> >
> > Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could
use
> > to extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume
changes
> > every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
> >
> > Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
> > old!
> >
> > --
> > Tom Puskar
> > 34 Old Bridge Drive
> > Howell, NJ 07731
> > Phone: 732-905-5728
> > Fax: 732-905-5847
> >
>
>

[Gunther]

In article <H12gd.320117$MQ5.313615@attbi_s52>,
says...
> Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
Um...they actually do quite nicely in low light -- that's
why they're such good house plants. And they love aquarium water.
Your credibility just dropped another notch, to near zero now.
But don't worry, there's meds for that at PetCo. :-)

Gunther

[Tom L. La Bron]

Julius,

First of all, the philodendrons that I am talking about are the plants a lot
of times referred to as Pathos. They are a low light growing vine.

Second, if you live in the U.S. you need to call your health department
because in most states Federal standards for nitrates in drinking water is
10 ppm, so you are over the limit and this could indicate medical problems
in humans depending on where the nitrate is coming from.

Tom L.L.
"Szaki" > wrote in message
news:H12gd.320117$MQ5.313615@attbi_s52...
> Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
> I keep my eye on Nitrates all the time, #1 silent killer for fish. For a
> long time, I didn't know why my fish get sick or dyeing, water looks clean
> and changed it.
> If it goes over 40 ppm I change water until it comes down. I also use low
> light hardy float plants, don't need roots.
> When changing water I buy filtered water, has nothing in it, than I add
> buffer and adjust my PH, much better.
> My tank is 20 gal, if you have a large tank, maybe it's a good idea to
> invest into a good water filtering system.
> My tap water all ready has 15 ppm Nitrates, but any one should test tap
> water at home to make sure.
>
> Julius
>
> "Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tom,
>>
>> Nitrates are inevitable. It means you cylcing is working. If you don't
>> have some thing to remove your nitrates likes plants growing in your
>> tanks
>> all the nitrates do is build up.
>>
>> Nitrates are one of those situations what get blamed for a lot of
>> problems
>> in tanks. If you have (Comets, Wakins, Common) torpedo shaped fish they
> can
>> handle high nitrates. As the fish gets more oranament, such as Orandas,
>> Demekins, etc. the nitrate level should be kept below 50ppm unless there
> is
>> some other response by the fish in the tank. Some problems have been
>> seen
>> by other Goldfish Keepers, but personally, I have not seen any. My
> Ranchus
>> are occasionally in environments where the nitrates are higher than 50ppm
>> and have never shown distress, but this is the exception not the rule..
>>
>> Now, for the most part though my nitrates are usually in the zero range.
> I
>> succeed in doing this by growing Philodendrons out of my tanks and tubs.
>> This plant is great for this for it removes a lot of nitrates grows in
> water
>> well and also does well in low light.
>>
>> The only other way to keep nitrates down is more frequent water changes.
>> Also draw the water off the bottom of the tank when you are doing this
>> especially if you have "high" sided tanks.
>>
>> The two techniques I have mentioned are the easiest and quickest way to
>> lower you nitrates and deffiently a better option than putting stuff in
> your
>> tanks to do it.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Tom L.L.
>> =============================
>>
>> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
>> et...
>> >I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
>> >gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>> >
>> > I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
>> > off.
>> >
>> > Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could
> use
>> > to extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume
> changes
>> > every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>> >
>> > Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
>> > old!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tom Puskar
>> > 34 Old Bridge Drive
>> > Howell, NJ 07731
>> > Phone: 732-905-5728
>> > Fax: 732-905-5847
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Tom L. La Bron]

Julius,

Also, I forgot to mention, nitrates are no way the #1 silent killer of fish.
Who ever told you that has their head stuck in the sand. Like I said it is
blamed a lot of the times for problems when something else is really the
culprit.

Tom L.L.
--------------------------------
"Szaki" > wrote in message
news:H12gd.320117$MQ5.313615@attbi_s52...
> Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
> I keep my eye on Nitrates all the time, #1 silent killer for fish. For a
> long time, I didn't know why my fish get sick or dyeing, water looks clean
> and changed it.
> If it goes over 40 ppm I change water until it comes down. I also use low
> light hardy float plants, don't need roots.
> When changing water I buy filtered water, has nothing in it, than I add
> buffer and adjust my PH, much better.
> My tank is 20 gal, if you have a large tank, maybe it's a good idea to
> invest into a good water filtering system.
> My tap water all ready has 15 ppm Nitrates, but any one should test tap
> water at home to make sure.
>
> Julius
>
> "Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tom,
>>
>> Nitrates are inevitable. It means you cylcing is working. If you don't
>> have some thing to remove your nitrates likes plants growing in your
>> tanks
>> all the nitrates do is build up.
>>
>> Nitrates are one of those situations what get blamed for a lot of
>> problems
>> in tanks. If you have (Comets, Wakins, Common) torpedo shaped fish they
> can
>> handle high nitrates. As the fish gets more oranament, such as Orandas,
>> Demekins, etc. the nitrate level should be kept below 50ppm unless there
> is
>> some other response by the fish in the tank. Some problems have been
>> seen
>> by other Goldfish Keepers, but personally, I have not seen any. My
> Ranchus
>> are occasionally in environments where the nitrates are higher than 50ppm
>> and have never shown distress, but this is the exception not the rule..
>>
>> Now, for the most part though my nitrates are usually in the zero range.
> I
>> succeed in doing this by growing Philodendrons out of my tanks and tubs.
>> This plant is great for this for it removes a lot of nitrates grows in
> water
>> well and also does well in low light.
>>
>> The only other way to keep nitrates down is more frequent water changes.
>> Also draw the water off the bottom of the tank when you are doing this
>> especially if you have "high" sided tanks.
>>
>> The two techniques I have mentioned are the easiest and quickest way to
>> lower you nitrates and deffiently a better option than putting stuff in
> your
>> tanks to do it.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Tom L.L.
>> =============================
>>
>> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
>> et...
>> >I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
>> >gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>> >
>> > I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid
>> > off.
>> >
>> > Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could
> use
>> > to extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume
> changes
>> > every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>> >
>> > Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting
>> > old!
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tom Puskar
>> > 34 Old Bridge Drive
>> > Howell, NJ 07731
>> > Phone: 732-905-5728
>> > Fax: 732-905-5847
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Geezer From The Freezer]

"Tom L. La Bron" wrote:
>
> Julius,
>
> Also, I forgot to mention, nitrates are no way the #1 silent killer of fish.
> Who ever told you that has their head stuck in the sand. Like I said it is
> blamed a lot of the times for problems when something else is really the
> culprit.

I'd say a combination of ammonia or nitrites or nitrates are big culprits
that cause other problems for sure, as well as PH and temp fluctuations.

[Szaki]

What do you mean they "love aquarium" water? All plants love aquarium water.
When I change water, give it to my wife, she uses it in the garden, it's
full of good stuff, nitrates and other minerals.
Do you submerge them? Most likely need substrate, since they have roots. I
punched in the name of your plant "Philodendrons" to Goggle, bunch of house
plants came up in my search.
Show me a web site, some one using it in the tank!

Julius

"Gunther" > wrote in message
t...
> In article <H12gd.320117$MQ5.313615@attbi_s52>,
> says...
> > Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
> Um...they actually do quite nicely in low light -- that's
> why they're such good house plants. And they love aquarium water.
> Your credibility just dropped another notch, to near zero now.
> But don't worry, there's meds for that at PetCo. :-)
>
> Gunther
>

[Szaki]

Reason I said, it's a silent killer, because most beginners don't measure
Nitrates, like I didn't for a long time and I had many fish lost. They
check PH or may be Ammonia. You can have 0 ammonia and 80-100 ppm nitrates
easy in the same time in the water. It's a normal process, that's what
bacteria do.
Guppies or some other fish don't tolarate Nitrates over 40 ppm, but some
fish can adjust to it without problems.

Julius

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Julius,
>
> Also, I forgot to mention, nitrates are no way the #1 silent killer of
fish.
> Who ever told you that has their head stuck in the sand. Like I said it
is
> blamed a lot of the times for problems when something else is really the
> culprit.
>
> Tom L.L.
> --------------------------------
> "Szaki" > wrote in message
> news:H12gd.320117$MQ5.313615@attbi_s52...
> > Philodendrons ? That's a house plant! Needs lot of light!
> > I keep my eye on Nitrates all the time, #1 silent killer for fish. For
a
> > long time, I didn't know why my fish get sick or dyeing, water looks
clean
> > and changed it.
> > If it goes over 40 ppm I change water until it comes down. I also use
low
> > light hardy float plants, don't need roots.
> > When changing water I buy filtered water, has nothing in it, than I add
> > buffer and adjust my PH, much better.
> > My tank is 20 gal, if you have a large tank, maybe it's a good idea to
> > invest into a good water filtering system.
> > My tap water all ready has 15 ppm Nitrates, but any one should test tap
> > water at home to make sure.
> >
> > Julius
> >
> > "Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> Nitrates are inevitable. It means you cylcing is working. If you
don't
> >> have some thing to remove your nitrates likes plants growing in your
> >> tanks
> >> all the nitrates do is build up.
> >>
> >> Nitrates are one of those situations what get blamed for a lot of
> >> problems
> >> in tanks. If you have (Comets, Wakins, Common) torpedo shaped fish
they
> > can
> >> handle high nitrates. As the fish gets more oranament, such as
Orandas,
> >> Demekins, etc. the nitrate level should be kept below 50ppm unless
there
> > is
> >> some other response by the fish in the tank. Some problems have been
> >> seen
> >> by other Goldfish Keepers, but personally, I have not seen any. My
> > Ranchus
> >> are occasionally in environments where the nitrates are higher than
50ppm
> >> and have never shown distress, but this is the exception not the rule..
> >>
> >> Now, for the most part though my nitrates are usually in the zero
range.
> > I
> >> succeed in doing this by growing Philodendrons out of my tanks and
tubs.
> >> This plant is great for this for it removes a lot of nitrates grows in
> > water
> >> well and also does well in low light.
> >>
> >> The only other way to keep nitrates down is more frequent water
changes.
> >> Also draw the water off the bottom of the tank when you are doing this
> >> especially if you have "high" sided tanks.
> >>
> >> The two techniques I have mentioned are the easiest and quickest way to
> >> lower you nitrates and deffiently a better option than putting stuff in
> > your
> >> tanks to do it.
> >>
> >> HTH
> >>
> >> Tom L.L.
> >> =============================
> >>
> >> "Tom Puskar" > wrote in message
> >> et...
> >> >I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my
100
> >> >gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
> >> >
> >> > I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally
paid
> >> > off.
> >> >
> >> > Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could
> > use
> >> > to extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume
> > changes
> >> > every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
> >> >
> >> > Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is
getting
> >> > old!
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Tom Puskar
> >> > 34 Old Bridge Drive
> >> > Howell, NJ 07731
> >> > Phone: 732-905-5728
> >> > Fax: 732-905-5847
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

some ways to handle nitrates.
increase size of tank for fish.

get rid of gravel which can hold a lot of rotting food which makes a lot of nitrates.
in a bare bottom tank all that crud ends up on the gross filter which takes 10
seconds to clean

with no gravel water changes no more than drop in a pump and run in water. my tanks
are marked I have a clamp I use to clamp my maxi 1000 pump to the size of the tank.
when it drains down to that point I hear it sucking. then I use the clamp to hold my
water pump in the (marked) container to where it will only pump back the required
amount. http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/hardware.html
when it runs out of water it makes loud noise too.

feed very small amounts of high quality fish food with very little filler. GF have
short intestines, fast digestion, no stomach so food is in and out fast. they can
only digest small amounts of food at a time ... feed them bigger portions and the
food comes out partially digested. feed them food loaded with fillers like corn and
other carbohydrates and most of the food comes out undigested. then it sits in the
gravel or on the filter and rots. GF poopies from well digested food has almost no
nutrient value for bacteria.

Ingrid

"Tom Puskar" > wrote:

>I finally got my ammonia levels back down to undetectable in both my 100
>gallon and 29 gallon goldfish tanks. Both are somewhat overstocked.
>
>I guess patience with the biomass and the extra filtration finally paid off.
>
>Nitrates are still high as expected. Are there any additives I could use to
>extend the period between water changes? I do about 1/3 volume changes
>every 10 days or so but the nitrates are still high.
>
>Haven't lost any fish yet but lugging that much water around is getting old!



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

make it a small veggie filter with water celery or cyperus or mints in it... the
plants grow UP and require smaller space to do same amount of filtering.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/2003/8-2003B.htm
I am waaay overfiltered for 24 koi in 1600 gallons here... the celery got yellow from
lack of food. most of my filter this year is baskets of flowers that dont really
filter the water. I got one bunch of water celery and one bunch of cyperus and they
are both looking greener this year. Ingrid

"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>I'm considering a LARGE external veggie filter, likely a garbage can filled
>with Water Hyacinths.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Bill Stock]

> wrote in message
...
> make it a small veggie filter with water celery or cyperus or mints in
it... the
> plants grow UP and require smaller space to do same amount of filtering.
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/mypond/2003/8-2003B.htm
> I am waaay overfiltered for 24 koi in 1600 gallons here... the celery got
yellow from
> lack of food. most of my filter this year is baskets of flowers that dont
really
> filter the water. I got one bunch of water celery and one bunch of
cyperus and they
> are both looking greener this year. Ingrid

Thanks, Does WC need a substrate? I was reading something about 3" of water.

I think the GF will be on a no WH diet for a while. The roots of the plants
I gave them a couple of weeks have pretty much been devoured. I actually saw
green fish poop, which was pretty much one solid root. My one fancy GF seems
to be the veggie lover, although he/she hasn't grown like the others. I'll
put the sickly WH back in the GF vegetable garden (planted tank) to see if
they recover. The GF are going to have to settle for Hornwort for a while.
Although the HW doesn't do much for the Nitrates.

[[email protected]]

no.. water celery growths free in water. also think water cress.

"Bill Stock" > wrote:
>Thanks, Does WC need a substrate? I was reading something about 3" of water.
>
>I think the GF will be on a no WH diet for a while. The roots of the plants
>I gave them a couple of weeks have pretty much been devoured. I actually saw
>green fish poop, which was pretty much one solid root. My one fancy GF seems
>to be the veggie lover, although he/she hasn't grown like the others. I'll
>put the sickly WH back in the GF vegetable garden (planted tank) to see if
>they recover. The GF are going to have to settle for Hornwort for a while.
>Although the HW doesn't do much for the Nitrates.
>
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.