big screw-up

[JT]

on tues. i ordered a golden pygmy angel from pet solutions to be
delivered today {wed } the box got lost and now delivery is thurs. do u
think this fish will be alive on thurs. when delivered, i don't ,

[Charles Spitzer]

"JT" > wrote in message
...
> on tues. i ordered a golden pygmy angel from pet solutions to be
> delivered today {wed } the box got lost and now delivery is thurs. do u
> think this fish will be alive on thurs. when delivered, i don't ,

how long do you think it takes for it to come from the south pacific?

there's a good chance. however, you should contact the sender to see what
they have to say about it.

[JT]

the sender is someone that pet solutions deals with, they said it was
coming from california. if it not alive when i get it i will tell them
to give me a refund on my cc . i feel bad 4 the poor fish stuck in bag
, truckin across town.

[Pszemol]

"JT" > wrote in message ...
> i feel bad 4 the poor fish stuck in bag, truckin across town.

If you feel bad for this one fish maybe you should change
your hobby to something not related to animals... ?
Unfortunatelly, not only one fish has to go through HELL
after captured in the ocean before arrives in our homes...
And, sometimes, it is not the end of the HELL for fish.
Me, you and everybody here supports this hell for fish
with our own money pumped into this hobby...

[PaulB]

To an extent, but not being available to predators is probably a good thing
from the fishes point of view. Things can happen in captivity and things
can happen in the wild as well. If you keep your tank well, your fish
should be reasonably well off.


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "JT" > wrote in message
> ...
>> i feel bad 4 the poor fish stuck in bag, truckin across town.
>
> If you feel bad for this one fish maybe you should change
> your hobby to something not related to animals... ?
> Unfortunatelly, not only one fish has to go through HELL
> after captured in the ocean before arrives in our homes...
> And, sometimes, it is not the end of the HELL for fish.
> Me, you and everybody here supports this hell for fish
> with our own money pumped into this hobby...

[Pszemol]

"PaulB" > wrote in message ...
> To an extent, but not being available to predators is probably a good thing
> from the fishes point of view. Things can happen in captivity and things
> can happen in the wild as well. If you keep your tank well, your fish
> should be reasonably well off.

You seem to forget only small portion of fish captured on the reef
lands in our fish tanks. The major portion dies during capture,
houling to the exporter, during shipment to the wholesaler and
during shipment to the retail stores... Lets be honest to ourselves:
our hobby kills fish, they die to make us happy looking at our tanks.
As simple as that.

I am not saying this to convince everybody to go and kill any fish
we can find and not care about their wellbeing, but to make you
realize, that milions of fish die because of our hobby...
This is the fact.

This single lost package with live fish inside is only one between
many ways fish die on their way from the ocean to our fishtanks...

[PaulB]

No, I don't forget anything. I remember that most fish that are not
captured die as well. There are predators, parasites disease causing
microbes, starvation, pollution, storms and other factors that fish have to
deal with in the wild.

Also, there is limited habitat, and same species competition for that
habitat. So long as the species taken for aquaria is able to maintain a
stable population, collection does it no harm. It is also better than other
forms of consumption.

I once had a local fish store owner show me a newly arrived adult French
Angel that client had ordered. He asked me if I had ever seen such a nice
angel and told me the price $250 I think, . I just said that it was nice,
since I had seen similar fish on ice at the Pueblo in Tutu park on St.
Thomas when I lived there. In the seafood section, on ice. Many ornamental
fish are eaten and I understand that tridachna clams are eaten in the
pacific. Look in a gift shop at a US beach and see all the dried seahorses.

So I don't think that aquarium collection is really all that horrible for
fish, given all the alternatives. Besides, have you ever eaten at a Red
Lobster, or Long John Silvers? What is the survival rate of the marine life
you buy there?


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "PaulB" > wrote in message
> ...
>> To an extent, but not being available to predators is probably a good
>> thing from the fishes point of view. Things can happen in captivity and
>> things can happen in the wild as well. If you keep your tank well, your
>> fish should be reasonably well off.
>
> You seem to forget only small portion of fish captured on the reef
> lands in our fish tanks. The major portion dies during capture,
> houling to the exporter, during shipment to the wholesaler and
> during shipment to the retail stores... Lets be honest to ourselves:
> our hobby kills fish, they die to make us happy looking at our tanks.
> As simple as that.
>
> I am not saying this to convince everybody to go and kill any fish
> we can find and not care about their wellbeing, but to make you
> realize, that milions of fish die because of our hobby...
> This is the fact.
>
> This single lost package with live fish inside is only one between
> many ways fish die on their way from the ocean to our fishtanks...

[Pszemol]

Lets not waste the breath. We are both talking about the same
thing here: Crying over one fish stuck in the shipment is just
plain silly considering the whole picture... isn't it ?
That was my original point!

[Happy'Cam'per]

Wow Pszemol, are you trying to top my Nerite Trolling efforts? :-)
Give the guy the break, obviously he feels for his fish, so would I, its an
unfortunate thing to happen.

Possibly loads of fish die due to the hobby but you will most certainly find
that most fish keepers (especially reefers) are pretty environmentally
friendly and would rather try to conserve the species than kill them.
Besides, one good thing to come out of the hobby is the immense education
you accumulate on certain species and their behaviour. Its all good Ja?
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> Lets not waste the breath. We are both talking about the same
> thing here: Crying over one fish stuck in the shipment is just
> plain silly considering the whole picture... isn't it ?
> That was my original point!

[Pszemol]

"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message ...
> Wow Pszemol, are you trying to top my Nerite Trolling efforts? :-)
> Give the guy the break, obviously he feels for his fish, so would I,
> its an unfortunate thing to happen.

ok.

> Possibly loads of fish die due to the hobby but you will most certainly find
> that most fish keepers (especially reefers) are pretty environmentally
> friendly and would rather try to conserve the species than kill them.

yes.

> Besides, one good thing to come out of the hobby is the immense education
> you accumulate on certain species and their behaviour. Its all good Ja?

no, it is not all good... :-) not all of us do it to get education.
we do it mainly for entertaiment... unless we are marine zoologists
we do not need education about species and their behaviour, do we?
most people in the hobby do not keep a fish tank to educate
themselves about fish... what a crazy idea ? :-)
they keep a fish tank to have a nice garden in their room.
something similar like a flower bouquet - a centerpiece for the room.
a conversation starter... something nice to show off with, etc :-)

but ok, lets not continue... it smells like a trolling thread ;-)

[Happy'Cam'per]

I hear you, and its still all good :) To each his own. Although its nice to
have as a show piece its also nice to be able to tell folks more about it
should the questions arrise. No point in having all these wonderful wee
critters without knowing at least a little about them. For me it seemed
natural to research the inhabitants of my tank, I'm obsessed what can I say
!

Cheers and have a fantastic weekend :):):)
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[John D. Maag]

I quit ordering from Pet solutions because they changed from FedEx to UPS
for exactly this kind of reason. I was a little lucky in the fact that I
caught the error and intervened (they did not put the box on a truck but
left it at the center so I picked it up)

Keep us informed

"JT" > wrote in message
...
> the sender is someone that pet solutions deals with, they said it was
> coming from california. if it not alive when i get it i will tell them
> to give me a refund on my cc . i feel bad 4 the poor fish stuck in bag
> , truckin across town.
>

[JT]

got the angel, looks good, little shy,not eatin right now but thats
expected--- its quaratined for a month min. then if all goes well into
my 180 gal

[John D. Maag]

Glad to hear it, I wish there was a way we could get them without stuffing
them in a bag.

What i am going to explore in the future is having the shipping company hold
it at the local office and never put it on a truck. I do not know if it is
possible but I will see.


"JT" > wrote in message
...
> got the angel, looks good, little shy,not eatin right now but thats
> expected--- its quaratined for a month min. then if all goes well into
> my 180 gal
>

[PaulB]

Oh, I see your point. I kind of assumed this was more of the "more
contentious than thou" thing that there seems to be so much of.

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> Lets not waste the breath. We are both talking about the same
> thing here: Crying over one fish stuck in the shipment is just
> plain silly considering the whole picture... isn't it ?
> That was my original point!

[EGMono]

In article >, "PaulB"
> writes:

>So I don't think that aquarium collection is really all that horrible for
>fish, given all the alternatives. Besides, have you ever eaten at a Red
>Lobster, or Long John Silvers? What is the survival rate of the marine life
>you buy there?
>
>

On par with the patrons ;)
(Couldn't resist..)
--
E.G.Mono