pirahna (or other messy eaters) and substrate

[Aquarijen]

Hi All,

I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need very
clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have heard of
folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I expect
it is because of the reflective quality of glass. I have (real) slate
tiles - the square ones you can use for flooring. two of these tiles fit in
the bottom of the tank I was thinking of using. There is like an extra inch
between them (or on one side). I thought to use these and fill the gap with
black sand (you know, like how paver stones are sometimes set). I would
decorate the tank with bogwood and a couple rocks and maybe some fake or
floating plants.

Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank? Is
there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?

Thanks!
Jen

[The Drunken Lord]

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:31:30 -0500, "Aquarijen"
> wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
>research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need very
>clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have heard of
>folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I expect
>it is because of the reflective quality of glass. I have (real) slate
>tiles - the square ones you can use for flooring. two of these tiles fit in
>the bottom of the tank I was thinking of using. There is like an extra inch
>between them (or on one side). I thought to use these and fill the gap with
>black sand (you know, like how paver stones are sometimes set). I would
>decorate the tank with bogwood and a couple rocks and maybe some fake or
>floating plants.

Are you planning on tossnig big chunks of meat in there like that guy
who Brian got his 55 gallon tank from said he did?

>Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank? Is
>there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
>viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?

I think it would look good, but have no idea how easy it would be to
clean.

Aquariums with no bottoms look like crap. I can understand why
breeders do it, but having one in your house with no bottom is like
having trailer park furniture in your den.

[Aquarijen]

"The Drunken Lord" > wrote in message
...

>
> Are you planning on tossnig big chunks of meat in there like that guy
> who Brian got his 55 gallon tank from said he did?

At least 7 to 10 times a day.
If the tank is not FILLED up with fatty red meat and does not have a 1//2
inch oil slick floating on the surface, what's the point? (I am kidding. I
did buy a pirahna book from the used bookstore and read what and how to
properly feed them.)

>>Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank? Is
>>there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
>>viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?
>
> I think it would look good, but have no idea how easy it would be to
> clean.
>
> Aquariums with no bottoms look like crap. I can understand why
> breeders do it, but having one in your house with no bottom is like
> having trailer park furniture in your den.

Understood. I am trying to achieve a no bottom ease of use with a nice
look...

Latersssss,
Jen

[Sue]

Sounds like the tank is too small for piranha if only two tiles are needed
for the base.
A dusting of sand would work on the base.

[The Drunken Lord]

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:44:10 -0500, "Aquarijen"
> wrote:

>
>"The Drunken Lord" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> Are you planning on tossnig big chunks of meat in there like that guy
>> who Brian got his 55 gallon tank from said he did?
>
>At least 7 to 10 times a day.
>If the tank is not FILLED up with fatty red meat and does not have a 1//2
>inch oil slick floating on the surface, what's the point? (I am kidding. I
>did buy a pirahna book from the used bookstore and read what and how to
>properly feed them.)

Did it say anything about throwing "chunks of meat" in the tank?

>>>Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank? Is
>>>there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
>>>viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?
>>
>> I think it would look good, but have no idea how easy it would be to
>> clean.
>>
>> Aquariums with no bottoms look like crap. I can understand why
>> breeders do it, but having one in your house with no bottom is like
>> having trailer park furniture in your den.
>
>Understood. I am trying to achieve a no bottom ease of use with a nice
>look...

Yeah, you don't want it to look like crap.

[luminos]

"Aquarijen" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
> very clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel.

I am sure you are aware that it is a very, very, very skittish, easily
frightened fish, that darts at high speed at almost everything....it needs
lots of room to exhibit this normal behavior.

I found them to be very unattractive in behavior in captivity. YMMV. Just
because you put food in, doesn't mean they will be interested.

[Toni]

"Aquarijen" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
very
> clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have heard
of
> folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I
expect
> it is because of the reflective quality of glass.


Just paint the bottom of the tank.
All of my quarantine and Goldfish tanks are painted on the bottom in the
same color (either black or dark blue) that I chose for the back.
It looks fine- the folks who say they are ugly usually haven't seen one set
up nicely.
It makes siphoning waste a breeze, and eliminates the reflective issues.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm

[Aquarijen]

"Toni" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Aquarijen" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
>> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
> very
>> clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have heard
> of
>> folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I
> expect
>> it is because of the reflective quality of glass.
>
>
> Just paint the bottom of the tank.
> All of my quarantine and Goldfish tanks are painted on the bottom in the
> same color (either black or dark blue) that I chose for the back.
> It looks fine- the folks who say they are ugly usually haven't seen one
> set
> up nicely.
> It makes siphoning waste a breeze, and eliminates the reflective issues.
>
>
> --
> Toni
> http://www.cearbhaill.com/discus.htm


Definately an idea.
Thanks!
Jen

[Aquarijen]

"luminos" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Aquarijen" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
>> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
>> very clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel.
>
> I am sure you are aware that it is a very, very, very skittish, easily
> frightened fish, that darts at high speed at almost everything....it needs
> lots of room to exhibit this normal behavior.
>
> I found them to be very unattractive in behavior in captivity. YMMV.
> Just because you put food in, doesn't mean they will be interested.

Yup, I am aware of that, thanks.
I do have a book on keeping pirahnas. I understand the tank size they need,
and their eating/lighting/hiding requirements. I'm not just fascinated by
pirahnas... I'm facinated by all fish. I do, however, like the piranha's
bulldogish appearance and sparkly scales.
I have lots of other fishtanks with all sorts of fish, but none with big
teeth yet - just looking to branch out. I may yet decide to look at a
different fish for this tank.

Soon there may not be enough room for people at my house. :/
-Jen

[NetMax]

"Aquarijen" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
very
> clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have
heard of
> folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I
expect
> it is because of the reflective quality of glass. I have (real) slate
> tiles - the square ones you can use for flooring. two of these tiles
fit in
> the bottom of the tank I was thinking of using. There is like an extra
inch
> between them (or on one side). I thought to use these and fill the gap
with
> black sand (you know, like how paver stones are sometimes set). I would
> decorate the tank with bogwood and a couple rocks and maybe some fake
or
> floating plants.
>
> Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank?
Is
> there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
> viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?
>
> Thanks!
> Jen

The tiles & sand sound like a very good idea. Your maintenance will be
greatly simplified. I think the sand should stay flat (Piranhas don't
scavenge substrate. If you are properly researching to provide these
fish with an appropriate habitat (which is what you are doing), I think
that you'll find that these fish can actually be very challenging, even
for an experienced hobbyist such as yourself. These characters are
loaded weapons with hair-triggers. They shoal together but never take
their eyes off each other, or else they will quickly be missing a chunk
of skin (usually between the dorsal and adipose fin). This is the
driving need for a large tank, to allow them to maintain proximity *and*
spacing and still move around. A too-small tank lets them stay close,
keep their distance, but not move around much. Because they are quite
skittish, sometimes keeping lots of vertical stuff helps (Vals,
driftwood, slate etc), as does shading the surface (any floating plants)
and avoiding tank locations near foot-traffic and fast-moving shadows. I
think a 60g would be acceptable for part of their lives, but if
successful, you might want to trade up. Another titbit on piranhas is
they quite possibly have the fastest growth rate of any commercially
available tropical fish. The normal grow-out period doesn't apply to
Piranhas so if you know you will need to upgrade, it tends to happen
sooner than expected. Another annoying characteristic is that you cannot
play with the diet to achieve the same results as you would get with
other tropical fish. If you reduce their food supply (ie: accidentally
through absence, cycling the tank, adjusting growth rates etc), they will
take matters into their own 'fins' and dine on each other. Many
successful Piranha tanks have a lone occupant ;~). Also note that the
availability of different species of Piranha varies by state, country
etc. I would personally start with six 1-1/2" Piranha in a 60g, with the
expectation of five surviving until I moved them into a 75g+. If
remaining in a 60g, three would be the capacity, but this is a more
difficult number to manage (they are schooling characins).

ps: your fish food budget is going to increase significantly, to the
point where you'll think that the fish are eating better than you are
;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mike D.]

When I was a teenager I had an old style fifty gallon square tank, with
chrome frame and a slate floor. It was a nice tank, and I put six baby
piranha {(s) ?} in the tank, but I had gravel and one or two plants and a
small pile of slate rocks in the middle of the tank. I suppose this helped
ease some of the tension for the fish. I had them for about six months, and
they didn't have any fighting problems, as I recall. I would advise a
considerably larger tank if you intend to keep the piranha into adulthood.
I would DEFINITELY get the largest tank you can afford, and certainly place
some materials in the tank for cover & concealment. I would try live plants
as they might help with the biological cleanliness of the tank. I would
make certain hat there were some good sized decorations so that if one fish
was retreating hastily from another, there would be something on the bottom
of the tank for the fish to use as obstacles to interfere with the aggressor
fish's pursuit.
I bought my six piranha at the size of about one inch long, and I started
feeding them one feeder goldfish for the entire group, and as time went on I
was feeding them a pool goldfish. I also gave them worms and once or twice a
pinkie mouse. The piranha seemed to relish any food that was not seafood,
but rather meat from some type of terrestrial animal. Catfish, in my opinion
are a definite no-go, as the piranha will eventually kill any other
tankmate. Mike.
"Aquarijen" > wrote in message
...
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking into getting a few pirahnas - I am now doing preliminary
> research. It is a very messy fish and I know that with fish that need
very
> clean water, some folks go bare bottom, i.e. no gravel. But I have heard
of
> folks doing this and the pirahna run into the bottom of the tank - I
expect
> it is because of the reflective quality of glass. I have (real) slate
> tiles - the square ones you can use for flooring. two of these tiles fit
in
> the bottom of the tank I was thinking of using. There is like an extra
inch
> between them (or on one side). I thought to use these and fill the gap
with
> black sand (you know, like how paver stones are sometimes set). I would
> decorate the tank with bogwood and a couple rocks and maybe some fake or
> floating plants.
>
> Do you think this is a good idea for easing maintenance of this tank? Is
> there anything I should be aware of with this or does this sound like a
> viable substrate alternative? Would this be easier to clean?
>
> Thanks!
> Jen
>
>