rolling koi

[david williams]

Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
ideas?
thanks
DW

Hmm, some of mine too do this. Just a couple of weeks I heard a lot of
splashing from my pond over a period of a few days but never caught them
actually 'doing it'. But on one occasion I was lucky enough to be working
in the garden around the pond when I saw one of my bigun's wind himself up
around and around the pond, he scooted down one end lined himself up in the
middle of the pond and then did a 3 foot tail run. We have all seen
dolphins skip along the water on their tails (usually travelling backwards),
but this Koi did it going forwards with 90% of its body out of the water.
Fantastic sight and what a tail flapping splashing sound! After that, he
joined the others and had a good rest, and probably had a cigarette with his
mates.

The fish in my pond go around separate groups. The 10 Koi all sleep/rest
together, but otherwise they split into 2 groups exchanging membership
occasionally. The two grass carp ALWAYS are together, inseparable. They
must be deeply in love or something. The other ordinary GF group together
in two or three groups.

Anyone else noticed this sort of gang behaviour in your ponds?

Fireball



"david williams" > wrote in message
...
> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
> ideas?
> thanks
> DW
>
>

[Crashj]

On or about Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:33:07 +0100,
> wrote something like:
<>
>The fish in my pond go around separate groups. The 10 Koi all sleep/rest
>together, but otherwise they split into 2 groups exchanging membership
>occasionally. The two grass carp ALWAYS are together, inseparable. They
>must be deeply in love or something. The other ordinary GF group together
>in two or three groups.
>
>Anyone else noticed this sort of gang behaviour in your ponds?
<>
Yes. My rosey twiddlers hang out in three distinct groups within a 6ft
x 11 ft pond. At one time I estimate I had over 1000 in four separate
gangs. Now one group has gone away and with Fall here, I am down to
about 500 total. Behavior within the groups is slightly different in
terms of feeding and motion.

cue "Tonight" from West Side Story. The Jets and the Sharks. And I
guess, the Twiddlers.
--
Crashj

[Paul in Redland]

Either his ailerons are out of adjustment or his rudder needs to be trimmed
;<)


"david williams" > wrote in message
...
> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
> ideas?
> thanks
> DW
>
>

[RichToyBox]

The rolling sounds like flashing, which is a sign of parasites or water
quality problems. The fish is not comfortable. He is trying to scrape off
the parasites or scratch an itch from something in the water. It is a good
idea to have someone scrape the fish for a microscopic examination to
determine the type of parasite, and it is a good idea to have a complete set
of tests run, pH, and ammonia in particular.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"david williams" > wrote in message
...
> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
> ideas?
> thanks
> DW
>
>

[[email protected]]

something stuck in mouth or bacterial infection.

"david williams" > wrote:

>Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>ideas?
>thanks
>DW
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

could be internal damage too.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

Jo Ann also says could be neural toxicity .... how is the fish doing now?

wrote:

> something stuck in mouth or bacterial infection.
>
>"david williams" > wrote:
>
>>Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>>where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>>ideas?
>>thanks
>>DW
>>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>www.drsolo.com
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>endorsements or recommendations I make.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[steve]

"david williams" > wrote in message >...
> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
> ideas?
> thanks
> DW

I have a large goldfish who had an out of control infection on top of
his head that covered most of it, this caused him to start to roll a
little or swim askew. Miracurously I saved him by using massive anti
biotics and wound ease, the wound completly healed but now he has a
slight roll when he swims especially when going after food. I figured
the infection messed up his brain or his inner ear (if a goldfish has
one) or maybe he is blind in one eye even though his eyes look fine.

I guess your fish could have a parasite infection on his scales but I
would have thought that the fish would be scraping himself on objects
or jumping out of the water if that was the case but who knows.

The only other idea is that its swim bladder was slightly messed up by
an infection and now your fish struggles a little when swimming
(hence he rolls a little) at least he has a very stable body design
so he can cope with it easily enough. I use to own tiger barbs and
they have stubby bodies and they have notorious swim bladder problems.
Their fine one day and then their rolling and doing head stands and
not able to swim correctly at all and you have to put them down.

[david williams]

Thanks for all suggestions,
Hi, Who would I get to take a scrape, and what does that involve? The fish
seems ok at the momentbut still performs the occasioanal 'roll.'
"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:EZAgd.340309$D%.137983@attbi_s51...
> The rolling sounds like flashing, which is a sign of parasites or water
> quality problems. The fish is not comfortable. He is trying to scrape
> off the parasites or scratch an itch from something in the water. It is a
> good idea to have someone scrape the fish for a microscopic examination to
> determine the type of parasite, and it is a good idea to have a complete
> set of tests run, pH, and ammonia in particular.
> --
> RichToyBox
> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>
> "david williams" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>> ideas?
>> thanks
>> DW
>>
>>
>
>

[RichToyBox]

In the UK, I would contact someone with the BKKS, at one of the local
sections. You can look them up at http://www.bkks.co.uk/ and scroll down on
the left until you find the tab marked sections. Someone within each
section should be able to provide the service or recommend someone that
will. They will be able to provide better guidance on treatments than most
local pond dealers that are just out to make a pound or two.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"david williams" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for all suggestions,
> Hi, Who would I get to take a scrape, and what does that involve? The fish
> seems ok at the momentbut still performs the occasioanal 'roll.'
> "RichToyBox" > wrote in message
> news:EZAgd.340309$D%.137983@attbi_s51...
>> The rolling sounds like flashing, which is a sign of parasites or water
>> quality problems. The fish is not comfortable. He is trying to scrape
>> off the parasites or scratch an itch from something in the water. It is
>> a good idea to have someone scrape the fish for a microscopic examination
>> to determine the type of parasite, and it is a good idea to have a
>> complete set of tests run, pH, and ammonia in particular.
>> --
>> RichToyBox
>> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>>
>> "david williams" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>>> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>>> ideas?
>>> thanks
>>> DW
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Tom L. La Bron]

Ingrid,

I find it interesting that a LFS owner from Alabama is the only person that
talks about neural toxicity. Neither Noga, Wong nor Stoskopf (leaders in
fish disease veterinary information) never speak of this conditionl.

Or is this a case of, you can't figure it out so you give it a cause that no
one will be able to confirm.

What a bunch of horse pucky.

How about giving informaiton from a real scientist with real creditials, not
an ex-LFS owner with no creditials. Oh Yes, Creditials doesn't mean having
passed two courses.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann also says could be neural toxicity .... how is the fish doing now?
>
> wrote:
>
>> something stuck in mouth or bacterial infection.
>>
>>"david williams" > wrote:
>>
>>>Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>>>where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>>>ideas?
>>>thanks
>>>DW
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>>endorsements or recommendations I make.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[matrix j]

Mine roll when it rains..or a massive water change....lasts only one or
two days once the ph goes back in balance.

[[email protected]]

it could also have affected the "head kidney" from the nares.
I am not sure if it is the inner ear or lateral line that is responsible for fish
position in the water, or both. but they sure do navigate well in a 3D environment
so I can see where it could go out of whack after that kind of infection.
Ingrid

(steve) wrote:
>I have a large goldfish who had an out of control infection on top of
>his head that covered most of it, this caused him to start to roll a
>little or swim askew. Miracurously I saved him by using massive anti
>biotics and wound ease, the wound completly healed but now he has a
>slight roll when he swims especially when going after food. I figured
>the infection messed up his brain or his inner ear (if a goldfish has
>one) or maybe he is blind in one eye even though his eyes look fine.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

if you dont have a microscope but want a quick and dirty determination
use a plastic credit card. hold the credit card at a 45o angle away from the head and
starting at the gill gently scrape the card down the length of the fish to the tail.

if there is much of an accumulation of gunk on the card, the slime coat is thick due
to toxic water or parasites. lf you scrape a scale off, that is scraping too hard.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/DIAGNOSI/scrape-fakefish.mpg
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/DIAGNOSI/scrape-realfish.mpg
here are two quickie mpg files I did a couple years ago or so. Ingrid

"david williams" > wrote:

>Thanks for all suggestions,
>Hi, Who would I get to take a scrape, and what does that involve? The fish
>seems ok at the momentbut still performs the occasioanal 'roll.'
>"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
>news:EZAgd.340309$D%.137983@attbi_s51...
>> The rolling sounds like flashing, which is a sign of parasites or water
>> quality problems. The fish is not comfortable. He is trying to scrape
>> off the parasites or scratch an itch from something in the water. It is a
>> good idea to have someone scrape the fish for a microscopic examination to
>> determine the type of parasite, and it is a good idea to have a complete
>> set of tests run, pH, and ammonia in particular.
>> --
>> RichToyBox
>> http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
>>
>> "david williams" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Hi I've noticed rcently that one of my koi is performing a sort of roll,
>>> where it swims on its side for just a moment and then rolls. Anyone any
>>> ideas?
>>> thanks
>>> DW
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.