ammonia problems with live rock cycling

[marshall baines]

Hi,

I am pretty new at this so I am hoping someone can help me. I
received half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago. I
have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
easily. I noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
the rock and corals and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

I have spoken to my friends, and many of them did not go through the
high ammonia levels that I have. Any recommendations? is this die
off normal or am I definately doing something wrong?

Thanks,

Marshall

[John]

> I
>have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
>day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
>easily.

The process of cycling NEEDS for the ammonia to be high. You want high ammonia
so that the ammonia eating bacteria can proliferate. I suggest stop doing
water changes and let nature takes its course. Unless I was mistaken by your
post....the reason I say that is I noticed this:

> noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
>the rock and corals

Is this a brand new tank or one that has been established a while and youre
adding additional rock to your existing? If its a brand new setup, corals
should not be in a cycling tank. They most likely wont survive, take them to
your friends and let them hold them for you.

~John

[KevinM]

"marshall baines" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi,
> I am pretty new at this so I am hoping someone can help me. I
> received half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago.

There's part of the problem, right there. Wait 2 *weeks*, then test ammonia.
Don't do so many water changes during this time, either. Maybe one or two
10%ers.

>I
> have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
> day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
> easily.

Water changes at this point in the game are fruitless. Save the salt for
when you really need it. The ammonia will never fall if you keep doing water
changes. The biological filter NEEDS ammonia in the water to begin to
establish itself.

> I noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
> the rock and corals and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

Corals? You've got CORALS in a 2 DAY old tank!?
Maybe the white spots are chicken pox? Seriously though, you've only had the
rock 2 days...lighten up. It's already looking like you're not going to have
the patience for reefing. You'll only be setting yourself up for major
headaches, and disappointment, by rushing things. There's no way to tell
what the spots are from your description.

> I have spoken to my friends, and many of them did not go through the
> high ammonia levels that I have. Any recommendations? is this die
> off normal or am I definately doing something wrong?

How high an ammonia level are we talking here? 5ppm...10...more?
What kind of rock did you get? What kind did your friends get? There are
many reasons why a batch of live rock might produce more ammonia than some
other batch. Die off is certainly normal, sometimes more, sometimes less.

The one thing I can't stress enough is....SLOW DOWN, MAN! Take some time and
read, then when you think you can't read another word 'cause your head
hurts....turn the page!

Kev

Hi,

I am pretty new at this so I am hoping someone can help me. I
received half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago. I
have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
easily. I noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
the rock and corals and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

I have spoken to my friends, and many of them did not go through the
high ammonia levels that I have. Any recommendations? is this die
off normal or am I definately doing something wrong?

Thanks,

Marshall


**********End Of Post*************


Now don't take this as being too mean but
"I am pretty new at this" No ****

"half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago" Hmm let me guess TBS.
It is going to take you at least 2 weeks to cure your first batch, water changes depend on the
size of you tank or curing vat. Skimmer???? Lights on or off ???
Run your lights

"friends, and many of them did not go through the
high ammonia levels that I have" I doubt it, unless the bought crap rock locally or
grabbed from a local tear down.

Lay off on the daily water changes, are you running a skimmer?

I have 65lbs of Uaniva arriving tomorrow for the 75gal in the basement. I'm guessing
3 weeks till I'll move some of this to my main tank and another few before I tie the 75
into the sump.

LOOK IT TAKES TIME. Patience is a virtue and your going to need a lot of it.
Start reading, A LOT
reefcentral.com Is a good place to start.
Good luck

[John]

>Now don't take this as being too mean but
>"I am pretty new at this" No ****

Totally unecessary information as he's already admitted to be new at this.
~John

[Toni]

"marshall baines" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi,
>
> I am pretty new at this so I am hoping someone can help me. I
> received half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago. I
> have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
> day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
> easily. I noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
> the rock and corals and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.
>
> I have spoken to my friends, and many of them did not go through the
> high ammonia levels that I have. Any recommendations? is this die
> off normal or am I definately doing something wrong?



Sounds like a TBS Package?

First- every load of rock is different. I have received TBS rock that is so
fresh that virtually no cycle took place at all. Another time I received
rock from TBS that looked like it had been in the bottom of the barrel for a
month, and had extensive die-off.

I know that Richard recommends that ammonia be kept under 1ppm in order to
preserve the life on the rock. If you are having trouble in this regard,
understand that one large water change brings it down much better than two
smaller changes.
While some varieties of live rock can be cured without regard to high
ammonia, TBS rock has so much life that we want to keep alive- an occasional
water change will *in no way* delay your cycle. 1ppm is more than enough to
stimulate bacterial growth, and the bacteria themselves are adherent and
will not be washed away with a water change.

"Multiple white spots" sounds like dying sponges. I would recommend that you
take out one piece of rock at a time, and smell these areas. If they smell
rank, they are dead and can be cut/yanked/pried off with a screwdriver or
similar. You won't want the rock out of the water for too long, but 20
minutes per piece will give you plenty of time to get all the dead bits off.
Smell all of the bivalves also- I tend to remove these, but that is an
individual decision. Getting rid of all the dying/dead organisms will help
your ammonia problems tremendously.

So- yes the die off is normal seeing that some batches are just different
than other batches. Remove all of the dead things you can by doing a sniff
test. Try to keep ammonia under 1ppm but don't lose your mind here- it will
come down on it's own eventually.

Please forgive some of the other responders who were exceedingly rude to
you.
The hobby is full of pleasant, helpful people so just ignore the few who
seem to have anger issues.
Must be the election.

Good luck


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/reef.htm

Hmm, I read the other responses and started thinking " oops don't post after a few" but I just read mine again
and it was sound advice. We all have different ways of getting a point across not to mention we have no specs
on his tank so the questions asked were valid.
Take it for what its worth but it's just my opinion.

Hmm, I read the other responses and started thinking " oops don't post after a few" but I just read mine again
and it was sound advice. We all have different ways of getting a point across not to mention we have no specs
on his tank so the questions asked were valid.
Take it for what its worth but it's just my opinion.

[Knowleman]

Marshall

I am 4 months into this hobby. I went through exactly the same
uncertainty and trauma with the live rock. I took advice from lots of
folk and settled on a strategy of letting the ammonia rise but doing
water changes to keep it at or around 50ppm (yes five-zero!). This
meant about 3 x 50% water changes over a 2 week period. Opinion was
split as to whether such high levels would kill off all but the
bacteria in the rock. It didn't. All kinds of suff emerged after the
cycling and now the tank is extremenly stable - not a trace of ammonia
and nitrite since with reasonable bio-load.

To monitor high levels, I was using a 1 in 10 dilition of the tank
water so I was looking at readings of around 5ppm on the test kit
(measuring higher levels is hard). Finally, when things started
dropping of their own accord in the third week, I did an almost
complete water change (80-90%). I then watched with satisfaction as
levels dropped from about 3ppm to zero over about 2 days.

Oh, yeah - definately get a skimmer fitted immediately. Mine pulled
out tons of muck during cycling.

Good luck.
Knowleman


(marshall baines) wrote in message >...
> Hi,
>
> I am pretty new at this so I am hoping someone can help me. I
> received half of the live rock for my 90 gallon tank 2 days ago. I
> have been constantly doing multiple water changes (30% 2-3 times a
> day), but the ammonia just does not seem to be getting under 1ppm so
> easily. I noticed last night that there are multiple white spots on
> the rock and corals and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.
>
> I have spoken to my friends, and many of them did not go through the
> high ammonia levels that I have. Any recommendations? is this die
> off normal or am I definately doing something wrong?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marshall