Overwintering a 50 gallon pond in zone 7b

[SeaRobin]

I've read a couple of overwintering guides, but they all focus on bigger
ponds. I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
a bit less deep than that.

Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
an aquarium and bring them in?

[Granny Grump]

>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
>an aquarium and bring them in?

Invest in a $35 floating tank heater, thermostatic controlled,
instead, and your fish will do fine.

[Nedra]

You can buy an air pump, attach an air hose to it... and an air stone at the
end. This will keep a hole in any ice that forms and keep aeration going in
the pond. Be sure to cover the
air pump with a bucket or something similar. Total output of dollars -
probably under
$15 or 20. You'll save a bundle! Very cheap to operate.

Nedra in Missouri
zone 6

"SeaRobin" > wrote in message
...
>
> I've read a couple of overwintering guides, but they all focus on bigger
> ponds. I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
> into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
> a bit less deep than that.
>
> Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
> typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
> we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
> wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
> to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
> gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
> the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
> an aquarium and bring them in?
>

[SeaRobin]

Granny Grump wrote:

>>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
>>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
>>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
>>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
>>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
>>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
>>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
>>an aquarium and bring them in?
>
>
> Invest in a $35 floating tank heater, thermostatic controlled,
> instead, and your fish will do fine.
>

Thanks, just brings up a couple more newbie questions-

All the floating products I found on the web specify they are "not
heaters", but thermostatically controlled de-icers. I take it they all
just bump up the temp of the water to just above freezing point in their
immediate vicinity?

Thermopond 100 watts up to 1000 gallon
Laguna 200 watts up to 3000 gallon
Farm Innovator Deicer 1250 watts up to 5000 gallons

I also noticed the least wattage will cost the most, initially that is.
Is this what I need, or should I use an actual heater since my pond is a
bit less than 2 feet deep and the bottom layer of water won't be very
much warmer than the top layer of water?

SeaRobin
Alabama, zone 7b

[SeaRobin]

Nedra wrote:
> You can buy an air pump, attach an air hose to it... and an air stone at the
> end. This will keep a hole in any ice that forms and keep aeration going in
> the pond. Be sure to cover the
> air pump with a bucket or something similar. Total output of dollars -
> probably under
> $15 or 20. You'll save a bundle! Very cheap to operate.
>
> Nedra in Missouri
> zone 6


So, you're saying if I can just keep the water from freezing over, it
won't matter how cold the water will get, the fish should survive?

SeaRobin
Alabama, zone 7b

>
> "SeaRobin" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I've read a couple of overwintering guides, but they all focus on bigger
>>ponds. I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
>>into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
>>a bit less deep than that.
>>
>>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
>>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
>>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
>>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
>>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
>>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
>>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
>>an aquarium and bring them in?
>>
>
>

[tim chandler]

I'm in Memphis and our temps are just a bit colder than yours, although we
too are supposedly in zone 7, give or take. With a 1000 gallon pond, an air
bubbler hasn't been enough usually to keep the water from freezing over
completely once or twice during the season. But not thick ice! And if your
goldfish are smaller, they may not make it through the winter. I use a
thermostatically controlled heater, like a trough heater, at the bottom
about 2' down, just to keep the water above the freezing point. Even then
ice will form in areas away from the heater. I didn't lose any fish last
winter.

A 50 gallon pond that's in a raised bed, though, is subject to freezing more
easily than a larger, in-ground pond. You might be OK with just the air
bubbler, but a heater just to keep the water from freezing would certainly
provide better protection for the fish.

Tim C.

"SeaRobin" > wrote in message
.. .
>
>
> Nedra wrote:
> > You can buy an air pump, attach an air hose to it... and an air stone at
the
> > end. This will keep a hole in any ice that forms and keep aeration
going in
> > the pond. Be sure to cover the
> > air pump with a bucket or something similar. Total output of dollars -
> > probably under
> > $15 or 20. You'll save a bundle! Very cheap to operate.
> >
> > Nedra in Missouri
> > zone 6
>
>
> So, you're saying if I can just keep the water from freezing over, it
> won't matter how cold the water will get, the fish should survive?
>
> SeaRobin
> Alabama, zone 7b
>
> >
> > "SeaRobin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>I've read a couple of overwintering guides, but they all focus on bigger
> >>ponds. I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
> >>into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
> >>a bit less deep than that.
> >>
> >>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
> >>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
> >>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
> >>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
> >>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
> >>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
> >>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
> >>an aquarium and bring them in?
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Ka30P]

SeaRobin wrote >>So, you're saying if I can just keep the water from freezing
over, it
won't matter how cold the water will get, the fish should survive?<<

I live in a zone 7 area and I use an air pump and bubbler.
Keeping a hole open in the ice is what you want to do in the winter. Our ponds
are pretty fish heavy compared to Mother Nature's ponds. The hole in the ice
allows gasses from decomposing matter to exit the pond.
The fish will do fine at low water temperatures. Their metabolism slows way
down and they just kind of hang out. They don't need to be fed until the water
temp. reaches about 55 degrees and is going to stay there sometime in the
spring.
I bet springtime in Alabama is something to see!


kathy :-)
3000 gallon pond
800 gallon frog bog
home of the watergardening labradors
zone 7 SE WA state

[Jerry Donovan]

"Granny Grump" > wrote in message
...
>
> >Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
> >typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
> >we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
> >wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
> >to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
> >gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
> >the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
> >an aquarium and bring them in?
>
> Invest in a $35 floating tank heater, thermostatic controlled,
> instead, and your fish will do fine.

Anyone in zone 7 that buys a pond heater/ deicer is wasting
their money. (IMHO)

I live in zone 5 maybe 4b (Northern Colorado) and have about
a 100 gallon pond. I only have goldfish in it, and use an aquarium
air pump and stone in the water to allow for there to be an air hole
in the ice. It works fine. The ice on the pond has gotten maybe
3 or 4 inches thick, but there has always been air escaping
somehow from the pond. It is often an open area, but when the
temps go below 0F for a few days, the air escapes through
some volcano looking buildups. Even when they close up, the
air escapes around the edges. I also scoop out any leaves that
might have sunk to the bottom, so that decaying material is
minimized some.

Applying watts to the solution is expensive, and the fish don't
care if it is 33F or 40F. I have not lost any fish during the winter
months yet.

Jerry

[Pinkpggy]

We have always used a trough de-icer in our pond. They are cheaper than a pond
de-icer and work just as well.
Jan
"Our Pond" Page
http://hometown.aol.com/pinkpggy/index.html

[SeaRobin]

Jerry Donovan wrote:


>
> Applying watts to the solution is expensive, and the fish don't
> care if it is 33F or 40F. I have not lost any fish during the winter
> months yet.
>

Sounds reasonable to me. Thanks.

[SeaRobin]

tim chandler wrote:
> I'm in Memphis and our temps are just a bit colder than yours, although we
> too are supposedly in zone 7, give or take. With a 1000 gallon pond, an air
> bubbler hasn't been enough usually to keep the water from freezing over
> completely once or twice during the season. But not thick ice! And if your
> goldfish are smaller, they may not make it through the winter. I use a
> thermostatically controlled heater, like a trough heater, at the bottom
> about 2' down, just to keep the water above the freezing point. Even then
> ice will form in areas away from the heater. I didn't lose any fish last
> winter.
>
> A 50 gallon pond that's in a raised bed, though, is subject to freezing more
> easily than a larger, in-ground pond.

Yep, that's why it was hard to apply the winterizing tips I've read for
most ponds, they focus on the larger ponds. I started my pond and added
some small fish in July and now they are 3 to 4 inches long if you count
the tailfin, so still kinda small body mass. Pond is shallow at about
20" on the deeper end. I think I'll start out bubbling, but will be
prepared with an alternative if that is not enough. Thanks for all the
input.

You might be OK with just the air
> bubbler, but a heater just to keep the water from freezing would certainly
> provide better protection for the fish.
>
> Tim C.

[SeaRobin]

Ka30P wrote:
> SeaRobin wrote >>So, you're saying if I can just keep the water from freezing
> over, it
> won't matter how cold the water will get, the fish should survive?<<
>
> I live in a zone 7 area and I use an air pump and bubbler.
> Keeping a hole open in the ice is what you want to do in the winter. Our ponds
> are pretty fish heavy compared to Mother Nature's ponds. The hole in the ice
> allows gasses from decomposing matter to exit the pond.
> The fish will do fine at low water temperatures. Their metabolism slows way
> down and they just kind of hang out. They don't need to be fed until the water
> temp. reaches about 55 degrees and is going to stay there sometime in the
> spring.

It seems kind of remarkable they can go that long without eating.

> I bet springtime in Alabama is something to see!

It's all new to me. I'm from the Great Lakes area originally. Here, I
am planting pansy beds this weekend to replace the begonias that just
got hit with the first cold front. We even get a bit of sunshine in the
winter, and it often warms up to 50 at midday. Quite different from
"lake effect snow" and endless gray skies...We do pay a price for all
this in the summers, however. I've been attacked by red ants twice -
how can anything that little bite that bad? Summer was endless and as
humid as the Belizean jungles. You're right though, we do have a very
lovely spring!

>
>
> kathy :-)
> 3000 gallon pond
> 800 gallon frog bog
> home of the watergardening labradors
> zone 7 SE WA state

[SeaRobin]

Pinkpggy wrote:
> We have always used a trough de-icer in our pond. They are cheaper than a pond
> de-icer and work just as well.
> Jan
> "Our Pond" Page
> http://hometown.aol.com/pinkpggy/index.html

Thanks, I'm looking into that as my back up plan!

[[email protected]]

I take it this preform is surrounded by dirt in the raised bed, right?
drop in a 100 watt submersible aquarium heater set to 55oF
drop in an airstone on a cheap pump.
cover the preform with plastic use a 2x 4 (pine, not treated wood) to hold the
plastic up over the pond. weight down the plastic, or better, use thin wood strips
screwed or stapled down to hold the plastic if you get a lot of wind.
this will keep the GF toasty all winter long. leave on end open. if you have some
kind of in pond filter, keep it running. and drop in a thermometer and continue to
very very very lightly feed the GF all winter when the temp is above 50o.
Ingrid

> > "SeaRobin" > wrote in message
> > ...
I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
> >>into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
> >>a bit less deep than that.
> >>
> >>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
> >>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
> >>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
> >>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
> >>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
> >>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
> >>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
> >>an aquarium and bring them in?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[tom A]

Hi
ref your pending problem with ice forming in your pond

what I do, is as follows:

I use a round REFLECTOR type shop Light with a 60 watt bulb in it, and
suppend it so that the reflector just touches the water....if the bulb
is on when you are installing this set up it will break, if it touches
the water....so set up the reflector first before you turn on the
bulb.

I do not have any small children around that I have to worry about
getting shocked, and have been using this setup for several years
with NO PROBLEMS to date. and the cost of the set up is not very
much and oppositional cost is LOW.

and you can watch your fish at night :-)

tom a.







On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 03:07:23 GMT, SeaRobin >
wrote:

>
>I've read a couple of overwintering guides, but they all focus on bigger
>ponds. I've got a 50 gallon kidney shaped pre-formed pond that's set
>into a raised bed about that's about 2ft. high. The pond itself is just
>a bit less deep than that.
>
>Can I keep a couple of regular goldfish in there with winter temps
>typically at 45-50 F during the day and about 30 F at night? Of course,
>we can get temps in the teens and twenties on the odd winter day, but it
>wouldn't last long. I have a pump running a bubble fountain that I plan
>to remove the fountain head from to make a fatter stream of water just
>gurgling up from the pond to make it less freeze prone. Do you think
>the fish will survive in such a shallow pond, or should I go invest in
>an aquarium and bring them in?

tom A.
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