Help - Ick in planted tank containing a rubber eel

[Dave]

35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras and
blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel. I've
noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
spots)....and they are also not very active.

I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this true??

Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
(caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if this
would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside?? If
there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then I'll
take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I treat the
35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't want to risk
losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are somewhat rare (I
live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda, New York).

Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Kind regards..
Dave

[Margolis]

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> 35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras
and
> blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel. I've
> noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
> spots)....and they are also not very active.
>
> I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
> what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this
true??
>
> Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
> (caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if
this
> would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside?? If
> there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then I'll
> take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I treat
the
> 35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't want to risk
> losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are somewhat rare
(I
> live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda, New York).
>
> Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
> I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>
> Any and all help would be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards..
> Dave
>
>


just raise the temp. I never recommend medications for ich, they are just
not worth it. It is too easy to treat just by raising the temps to a steady
80-83°f. That should take care of it in 24-48 hours.

the thing is, what caused the ich in the first place? healthy fish that
aren't overstressed do not succumb to ich. Are you keeping the water warm
enough and at a stable enough temperature for the tetras? It should be in
the range of 78-80°f. Are you keeping the water clean with regular water
changes and decent filtration that is clean?

Plus it sounds like the tank is a little overcrowded which could be
contributing to the stress levels causing the ich.
--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Dick]

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 00:33:53 -0600, "Margolis" >
wrote:

>"Dave" > wrote in message
...
>> 35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras
>and
>> blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel. I've
>> noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
>> spots)....and they are also not very active.
>>
>> I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
>> what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this
>true??
>>
>> Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
>> (caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if
>this
>> would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside?? If
>> there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then I'll
>> take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I treat
>the
>> 35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't want to risk
>> losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are somewhat rare
>(I
>> live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda, New York).
>>
>> Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
>> I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>>
>> Any and all help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Kind regards..
>> Dave
>>
>>
>
>
>just raise the temp. I never recommend medications for ich, they are just
>not worth it. It is too easy to treat just by raising the temps to a steady
>80-83°f. That should take care of it in 24-48 hours.
>
>the thing is, what caused the ich in the first place? healthy fish that
>aren't overstressed do not succumb to ich. Are you keeping the water warm
>enough and at a stable enough temperature for the tetras? It should be in
>the range of 78-80°f. Are you keeping the water clean with regular water
>changes and decent filtration that is clean?
>
> Plus it sounds like the tank is a little overcrowded which could be
>contributing to the stress levels causing the ich.

I have read this temperature suggestion before. I tried it once while
waiting for ich medication to be mailed to me. I didn't get any
improvement. I agree that healthy fish don't get ich. I once
received 6 Clown Loaches that had ich. I tried treating the tank with
RidIch+, but only 2 of the 6 improved. I finally killed the four that
were obviously losing strength. I also noted that none of my other 60
fish had caught the ich, so I quit medicating and the 2 CLs continued
to improve and are still alive and doing fine 14 months later.

My understanding of raising the temperature has nothing to do with
killing the ich. As I understand it raising the temperature speeds
the cycling of the ich. There are 3 states and the white spots is
just one that is visible. Speeding the cycling allows the ich
medication to kill off the ich when it is in the state that is
vulnerable, the free swimming state, I think.

I would focus on the water quality. Change 20% daily and try shift
some fish out of the tank if possible. You may have over populated.
Is it possible you are overfeeding? It wouldn't hurt to not feed for
a day or two along with the water changes. I don't know that fish die
from ich, but weak fish that break out with ich will die from what
ever is the underlying cause.

These ideas are the result of my experience, and things I have read.
I am definitely not an expert.

dick

[Margolis]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have read this temperature suggestion before. I tried it once while
> waiting for ich medication to be mailed to me. I didn't get any
> improvement. I agree that healthy fish don't get ich. I once
> received 6 Clown Loaches that had ich. I tried treating the tank with
> RidIch+, but only 2 of the 6 improved. I finally killed the four that
> were obviously losing strength. I also noted that none of my other 60
> fish had caught the ich, so I quit medicating and the 2 CLs continued
> to improve and are still alive and doing fine 14 months later.
>
> My understanding of raising the temperature has nothing to do with
> killing the ich. As I understand it raising the temperature speeds
> the cycling of the ich. There are 3 states and the white spots is
> just one that is visible. Speeding the cycling allows the ich
> medication to kill off the ich when it is in the state that is
> vulnerable, the free swimming state, I think.
>
> I would focus on the water quality. Change 20% daily and try shift
> some fish out of the tank if possible. You may have over populated.
>

yes, the warmth does not kill the ich, it just speeds the stage up where
they are they cyst on the fish. Plus the warm water is less stressful on
the tetras than cooler water is. So it can help. If it was a chill that
stressed them enough to get the ich, then the warmth will cycle the current
infection off of the tetras in 24-48 hours and then they won't get it again
as long as they are not still stressed for some reason. But the most
important thing is to find the underlying cause of the problem or it won't
go away even with medications that can kill the ich.. So the warm water
method can certainly be advantageous and very helpful, but no, it is not a
100% cureall.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[~shady angel~]

Dave wrote:
> 35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal
> tetras and blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a
> rubber eel. I've noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to
> be ick (white spots)....and they are also not very active.
>
> I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and
> from what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is
> this true??
>
> Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
> (caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know
> if this would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel
> inside?? If there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my
> rubber eel then I'll take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon
> cichlid tank while I treat the 35G. I don't think my eel has been
> effected....and I don't want to risk losing him while treating the
> tank because rubber eels are somewhat rare (I live near Toronto and I
> finally found some in Tonawanda, New York).
>
> Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick
> medication?? I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>
> Any and all help would be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards..
> Dave

Sorry can't help with your question but what sort of chiclids have you got
wont they eat your eel?

--
~shady angel~

[Dave]

"~shady angel~" > wrote in message
...
> Dave wrote:
> > Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick
> > medication?? I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??

If you do treat with QuickCure, just use half dosage (1 drop per 2 gallons).

[Duncan A. McRae]

I can confirm the temperature approach. I introduced 8 cardinal tetras into
a planted tank with (I discovered later) a non-functioning heater -- instant
ick. :( I grabbed a new heater, bumped it to 86 or so, and a month later
there's no problem. The only problem I've noticed is that water evaporates
very quickly. Now it's back to the important stuff like building CO2
generators.

Good luck;
Duncan


"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> 35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras
> and blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel. I've
> noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
> spots)....and they are also not very active.
>
> I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
> what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this
> true??
>
> Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
> (caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if
> this would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside??
> If there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then
> I'll take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I
> treat the 35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't want
> to risk losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are
> somewhat rare (I live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda,
> New York).
>
> Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
> I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>
> Any and all help would be appreciated.
>
> Kind regards..
> Dave
>
>

[Nikki Casali]

Does a temperature that high have a detrimental effect on plant growth?

Nikki

Duncan A. McRae wrote:
> I can confirm the temperature approach. I introduced 8 cardinal tetras into
> a planted tank with (I discovered later) a non-functioning heater -- instant
> ick. :( I grabbed a new heater, bumped it to 86 or so, and a month later
> there's no problem. The only problem I've noticed is that water evaporates
> very quickly. Now it's back to the important stuff like building CO2
> generators.
>
> Good luck;
> Duncan
>
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras
>>and blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel. I've
>>noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
>>spots)....and they are also not very active.
>>
>>I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
>>what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this
>>true??
>>
>>Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
>>(caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if
>>this would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside??
>>If there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then
>>I'll take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I
>>treat the 35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't want
>>to risk losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are
>>somewhat rare (I live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda,
>>New York).
>>
>>Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
>>I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>>
>>Any and all help would be appreciated.
>>
>>Kind regards..
>>Dave
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Duncan A. McRae]

I haven't noticed. If anything, I imagine it would help, but that's
conjecture on my part.


"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
> Does a temperature that high have a detrimental effect on plant growth?
>
> Nikki
>
> Duncan A. McRae wrote:
>> I can confirm the temperature approach. I introduced 8 cardinal tetras
>> into a planted tank with (I discovered later) a non-functioning heater --
>> instant ick. :( I grabbed a new heater, bumped it to 86 or so, and a
>> month later there's no problem. The only problem I've noticed is that
>> water evaporates very quickly. Now it's back to the important stuff like
>> building CO2 generators.
>>
>> Good luck;
>> Duncan
>>
>>
>> "Dave" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>35 gallon tank full of swords and anubias. Quite a few cardinal tetras
>>>and blue tetras plus a few loaches, plecos (zebra) and a rubber eel.
>>>I've noticed a few of my cardinals have what appears to be ick (white
>>>spots)....and they are also not very active.
>>>
>>>I see my problem as 2 fold. First of all...it's a planted tank and from
>>>what I've read treatments for ick can be harmful to plants. Is this
>>>true??
>>>
>>>Problem# 2 - if I'm not mistaken Quick Cure is lethal to rubber eels
>>>(caecillian). I've got this stuff called Copper Safe...anyone know if
>>>this would be safe to treat the tank with keeping the rubber eel inside??
>>>If there's nothing to treat ick that isn't harmful to my rubber eel then
>>>I'll take him out and throw him into my 90 gallon cichlid tank while I
>>>treat the 35G. I don't think my eel has been effected....and I don't
>>>want to risk losing him while treating the tank because rubber eels are
>>>somewhat rare (I live near Toronto and I finally found some in Tonawanda,
>>>New York).
>>>
>>>Problem# 3 possably - aren't cardinals more sensative to ick medication??
>>>I've got around 20 of them. Should I lower the dosage??
>>>
>>>Any and all help would be appreciated.
>>>
>>>Kind regards..
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Dave]

> Sorry can't help with your question but what sort of chiclids have you got
> wont they eat your eel?
>
> --
> ~shady angel~

Rubber eels (http://www.caecilian.org/) are different than your normal fire
or spiney eels. I've kept them with all sorts of cichlids over the years
(currently a 90 gallon malawi tank full of demasoni, mel. maingana, hap
ahli, greberi and exotic plecos). I've never once seen a fish attack a
rubber eel.

Thx for the responses, folks. I've raised the temperature of my 35G and
we'll see what happens.

Dave

[~shady angel~]

Dave wrote:
>> Sorry can't help with your question but what sort of chiclids have
>> you got wont they eat your eel?
>>
>> --
>> ~shady angel~
>
> Rubber eels (http://www.caecilian.org/) are different than your
> normal fire or spiney eels. I've kept them with all sorts of
> cichlids over the years (currently a 90 gallon malawi tank full of
> demasoni, mel. maingana, hap ahli, greberi and exotic plecos). I've
> never once seen a fish attack a rubber eel.
>
Ok thanks for the link. Isn't it strange to have African chiclids with south
American catfish?
--
~shady angel~

> Thx for the responses, folks. I've raised the temperature of my 35G
> and we'll see what happens.
>
> Dave

[~shady angel~]

Dave wrote:
>> Sorry can't help with your question but what sort of chiclids have
>> you got wont they eat your eel?
>>
>> --
>> ~shady angel~
>
> Rubber eels (http://www.caecilian.org/) are different than your
> normal fire or spiney eels. I've kept them with all sorts of
> cichlids over the years (currently a 90 gallon malawi tank full of
> demasoni, mel. maingana, hap ahli, greberi and exotic plecos). I've
> never once seen a fish attack a rubber eel.
>
Ok thanks for the link. Isn't it strange to have African chiclids with south
American catfish?
--
~shady angel~

> Thx for the responses, folks. I've raised the temperature of my 35G
> and we'll see what happens.
>
> Dave