roof liner

[rtk]

The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
They seem so overextended that a three day job is taking them 6
half-days spread out over three weeks. So I can't ask them anything if
they're not even here. This hasn't be a cheerful situation. I would
like to get my koi back in the pond, but I don't dare.

Ruth Kazez

[RichToyBox]

Many have used the roof liner with success. I would put my worst fish in as
a sacrificial lamb and see how it does for a few days, and then go ahead and
add the rest of the fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"rtk" > wrote in message
...
> The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so they
> used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to put fish
> in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve? They seem so
> overextended that a three day job is taking them 6 half-days spread out
> over three weeks. So I can't ask them anything if they're not even here.
> This hasn't be a cheerful situation. I would like to get my koi back in
> the pond, but I don't dare.
>
> Ruth Kazez

[Jim and Phyllis Hurley]

Roof liner works just fine for all of us that have reported on it. Can you
wash it off and flush out the pond before filling it and putting the fish
in? Phyllis and I have roof liner in two of the veggie filters ( 5 x 5 x
1.5 and 8 x 4 x 1.5). No problems ever from them. RichToyBox has a good
suggestion: try a sacrificial lamb and see how it does. You could even get
a healthy goldfish and toss it in.

Good luck.

Jim


--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"rtk" > wrote in message
...
> The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so they
> used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to put fish
> in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve? They seem so
> overextended that a three day job is taking them 6 half-days spread out
> over three weeks. So I can't ask them anything if they're not even here.
> This hasn't be a cheerful situation. I would like to get my koi back in
> the pond, but I don't dare.
>
> Ruth Kazez

[Benign Vanilla]

"Jim and Phyllis Hurley" > wrote in message
. ..

<snip>
> try a sacrificial lamb and see how it does.
<snip>

Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. I mean,
seriously, how long will a lamb survive in a pond? And when it's all done,
what does that tell you about fish? Nothing.

I think they are just being silly, but that just my two cents.

BV.

[John Hines]

rtk > wrote:

>The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
>they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
>put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?

Unless they paid extra, for the coating, there wouldn't be any.

That is an extra step, which isn't needed for standard roofing.

[rtk]

John Hines wrote:

>>The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
>>they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
>>put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
>
>
> Unless they paid extra, for the coating, there wouldn't be any.
>
> That is an extra step, which isn't needed for standard roofing.

I'm sure they wouldn't pay extra, but they said I would have to wait
five days, so I guess there's something on it. I just don't understand
where anything bad could go, could it actually evaporate. I googled
roof lining for ponds and thought it was very funny that someone said he
always thought it was a bad thing but had read on rec.ponds that it was
just fine and that pond liners were just more or less cosmetic. Anyhow,
I'm going to wait for them to finally come around and put my least
favorite fish in, so if anything goes wrong I can blame them and not
feel guilty. It's a landscaping group and they seem awfully
overextended because they're dragging out a 3 day job to 6 half-days
spread over a month. Driving me batty. No way could I do it because of
the weight of the rocks.

Ruth Kazez

[John Hines]

rtk > wrote:

>
>
>John Hines wrote:
>
>>>The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
>>>they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
>>>put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
>>
>>
>> Unless they paid extra, for the coating, there wouldn't be any.
>>
>> That is an extra step, which isn't needed for standard roofing.
>
>I'm sure they wouldn't pay extra, but they said I would have to wait
>five days, so I guess there's something on it. I just don't understand
>where anything bad could go, could it actually evaporate. I googled
>roof lining for ponds and thought it was very funny that someone said he
>always thought it was a bad thing but had read on rec.ponds that it was
>just fine and that pond liners were just more or less cosmetic. Anyhow,
>I'm going to wait for them to finally come around and put my least
>favorite fish in, so if anything goes wrong I can blame them and not
>feel guilty.

Take a scrap piece, and put it in a container or bucket. Add water, and
a feeder goldfish, or other sacrificial "lamb".

Do this right after the install, after the water is de-clor'd and force
the issue. If the feeder is still alive after 4-5 days, then it is ok
for the pond, and you can add him (and the rest) to the pond.

[RichToyBox]

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim and Phyllis Hurley" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
> Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. > BV.
>
Ouch, BV. Ouch.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

[Jim and Phyllis Hurley]

When they stop saying 'Baa', you know the water is toxic.

JH

--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim and Phyllis Hurley" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
> <snip>
>> try a sacrificial lamb and see how it does.
> <snip>
>
> Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. I mean,
> seriously, how long will a lamb survive in a pond? And when it's all done,
> what does that tell you about fish? Nothing.
>
> I think they are just being silly, but that just my two cents.
>
> BV.
>
>

[Jim and Phyllis Hurley]

clever idea!

--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"John Hines" > wrote in message
...
> rtk > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>John Hines wrote:
>>
>>>>The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
>>>>they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
>>>>put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
>>>
>>>
>>> Unless they paid extra, for the coating, there wouldn't be any.
>>>
>>> That is an extra step, which isn't needed for standard roofing.
>>
>>I'm sure they wouldn't pay extra, but they said I would have to wait
>>five days, so I guess there's something on it. I just don't understand
>>where anything bad could go, could it actually evaporate. I googled
>>roof lining for ponds and thought it was very funny that someone said he
>>always thought it was a bad thing but had read on rec.ponds that it was
>>just fine and that pond liners were just more or less cosmetic. Anyhow,
>>I'm going to wait for them to finally come around and put my least
>>favorite fish in, so if anything goes wrong I can blame them and not
>>feel guilty.
>
> Take a scrap piece, and put it in a container or bucket. Add water, and
> a feeder goldfish, or other sacrificial "lamb".
>
> Do this right after the install, after the water is de-clor'd and force
> the issue. If the feeder is still alive after 4-5 days, then it is ok
> for the pond, and you can add him (and the rest) to the pond.
>

[rtk]

I have a little rosy red I have named Isaac for the occasion; he's in
the small pond with all the big guys. Today if I can fish him out, so
to speak, I'll try putting him in some water from the big pond with the
week old roof lining. Unless, of course, I receive some last minute
instruction not to do so.

Ruth Kazez

[Crashj]

On or about Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:31:14 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
> wrote something like:

>
>"Jim and Phyllis Hurley" > wrote in message
. ..
>
><snip>
>> try a sacrificial lamb and see how it does.
><snip>
>
>Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. I mean,
>seriously, how long will a lamb survive in a pond? And when it's all done,
>what does that tell you about fish? Nothing.
>
>I think they are just being silly, but that just my two cents.

Well ,and the bit about tossing in a goldfish . . .
Please try to be close to the pond when you do that.
--
Crashj

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:31:14 -0500, "Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. I mean,
>seriously, how long will a lamb survive in a pond? And when it's all done,
>what does that tell you about fish? Nothing.

I guess using a "canary" isn't wise either, they tend to fly off when you
toss them towards the pond. ;op ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


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[rtk]

The sacrifices of the lamb, goldfish, and canary have been postponed for
a week. The workers came and pretty much finished the pond, but the
water over the falls is making quite a bit of foam, so I was told there
is probably still a lot of chemicals in there. I gather it just
evaporates. The poor koi will have to hang with goldfish and I assume
three frogs a while longer. I hope the frogs didn't sacrifice themselves.

Ruth Kazez



~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
>>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:31:14 -0500, "Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>
>
>>Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. I mean,
>>seriously, how long will a lamb survive in a pond? And when it's all done,
>>what does that tell you about fish? Nothing.
>
>
> I guess using a "canary" isn't wise either, they tend to fly off when you
> toss them towards the pond. ;op ~ jan
>
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Benign Vanilla]

"RichToyBox" > wrote in message
news:aqdkd.13407$V41.9677@attbi_s52...
>
> "Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jim and Phyllis Hurley" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >
> > Just be warned Jim and Rich don't always think before they post. > BV.
> >
> Ouch, BV. Ouch.


Aww come on Rich. You knew I was kidding. :P

BV.

[rtk]

Three koi were put in the roof-lining pond yesterday. It's before 6
a.m. and too dark to see anything now, but I am very antsy about them.
This weekend I'll take photos and explain all the changes. I have a
couple photos of the work done on the smaller pond here:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewerPondPage/TIP.html

Because it was all an emergency (pond caving in) I let them get started
without an estimate. They never did tell me what kind of costs I was
getting into and I think I've been very naive to allow them to continue
without a price tag. One pond is 250 gallons and the other close to
2000. They were already dug, of course, but they added a lot of rocks
and new filter systems, so I think this is going to be a huge number. Is
there any site that gives estimates that I can compare with my future bill?

Ruth Kazez

[rtk]

The koi have survived.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewerPondPage/TIP.html

and the final pics today:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/NewerPondPage/RevisedPonds.html


Pose for their photos, the koi did NOT, but I took a pic of them way
down there. Apparently the roof liner's evil stuff dissolved.

Ruth Kazez

[klj]

In article >, says...
> The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
> they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
> put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
> They seem so overextended that a three day job is taking them 6
> half-days spread out over three weeks. So I can't ask them anything if
> they're not even here. This hasn't be a cheerful situation. I would
> like to get my koi back in the pond, but I don't dare.
>
> Ruth Kazez
>
I've been in water gardening since 1991, I recently left the business
when the chain I worked for closed down, and I can assure you that there
is no difference between roofing rubber and "pond liner", I even went so
far having this debate many times to contact a gentleman in Canada, some
polymer expert with a lot of letters after his name, no danger, zip,
nada, squat.

I attended a seminar by a comany out of Kansas or Missouri in 05, had
this discussion with the rep, his pitch was tell people that he didn't
know if roofing was bad or good and that OUR stuff is guaranteed.

Contact Firestone for instance and ask them for the warranty details.

1) Prove the liner killed the fish

2) If you can, they'll replace it with what, the same type of liner that
you just claimed killed your fish.

I remember when this debate was as volatile as PC v Mav (don't start),
but you really won't find any valid evidence that should discourage
anyone from using the roofing rubber.

BTW, if they used roofing rubber, they owe you a refund, it's generally
about 60% of what the "fish safe" stuff sells for. And there's no need
to wait for days because of the liner, the worst that's on it is a bit
of talc they used as a release agent.

[~ jan]

>In article >, says...
> The guys replacing my pond couldn't find a new liner fast enough, so
> they used roof liner. They said that in five days it would be okay to
> put fish in. Without any filtration? How can the chemicals dissolve?
> They seem so overextended that a three day job is taking them 6
> half-days spread out over three weeks. So I can't ask them anything if
> they're not even here. This hasn't be a cheerful situation. I would
> like to get my koi back in the pond, but I don't dare.
>
> Ruth Kazez

With use of any liner, one should rinse well. If that wasn't done, fill,
drain and fill again. The biggest thing you have to worry about is making
sure the water quality stays good after you put the fish back in. ~ jan

[Zebulon]

*NOTE: There are two Zebulons posting on this group.*

"klj" > wrote in message
. ..
>
<brevity snip>

> BTW, if they used roofing rubber, they owe you a refund, it's generally
> about 60% of what the "fish safe" stuff sells for. And there's no need
> to wait for days because of the liner, the worst that's on it is a bit
> of talc they used as a release agent.
=======================
Spread the roofing liner, hose well and use. From what I've seen anything
made explicitly for the ornamental pond crowd is overpriced, from liner to
pond "salt" to the aquatic plants they sell us to foods we feed our fish.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Concerned Aquaria Group Members]

Dreamaing or halucinating carol, Dream on you clueless idiot.

Just have the pond crew scrub and wash off that liner well before
install. Exposure to the sun will help. If possible have them drop off
liner before hand and roll it out to sunlight exposure and weater
until they can install it. Then fill it (no need to use dechlor) and
turn on pumps and allow water to circulat for a bit, then drain and
refill using dechlor.......you should be good to go. There are a lot
of ponds made using roof liner and they do just fine with a general
hosing off before hand and a good fill and drain and a refill .....

Of they are telling you they are usuing roofing liner up front and yu
agree on a price thats fine. Often times roof liner can be had in
heavier thickness than pond liners. At least they were honest and up
front with telling yu they are usuing roofing liner. As to a refund,
etc, well thats just our resident knowit all trol running her mouth as
usual. You know what you need to do in terms of refunds or your
contract, and there is no need to discuss yur private area in public
at our resident trolls desire. The info she gives is nothing more than
not being able to resist the urge to repy to any and all topics with
little or no actual info to give that is pertinent to the post.

Have fun and good luck.....



On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:54:15 -0600, xxxxxxxx >
wrote:

<<>>*NOTE: There is only one dumbass named Zebulon posting on this group.*
<<>>
<<>>"klj" > wrote in message
. ..
<<>>>
<<>><brevity snip>

Typical snip for her, as she does not want correct good info mixed
with her so called good info.......it takes away her attention.
<<>>
<<>>> BTW, if they used roofing rubber, they owe you a refund, it's generally
<<>>> about 60% of what the "fish safe" stuff sells for. And there's no need
<<>>> to wait for days because of the liner, the worst that's on it is a bit
<<>>> of talc they used as a release agent.
<<>>=======================
<<>>Spread the roofing liner, hose well and use. From what I've seen anything
<<>>made explicitly for the ornamental pond crowd is overpriced, from liner to
<<>>pond "salt" to the aquatic plants they sell us to foods we feed our fish.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!