Sulfur Based Denitrifiers Revisited

[Wayne Sallee]

Anybody read the article in the Aquarium Fish magazine page 8, on sulfur
reactors?

See also:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=e57e8d9666645dcc&rnum=1

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=d855daa0f2cb6ff9&rnum=8

At the time of the above posts, I was curious, but not too confident on the
idea. I have been growing in the intrest of the use of sulfur in the reef tank,
over the time since the above posts. But I've just been so bussy the last few
years, though I have experimented with a bag of sulfur in a fresh water tank
sump with no adverse affects. Though most of my tanks are in terible neglect
since I've been so bussy the last couple years with the store.

But the article shows more evidence towards the use of sulfur, and also
mentions the idea of even putting sulfur in the sand in the tank.

Wayne Sallee

[CheezWiz]

I just read the article as well.
It has peaked my interests as well. Looks simple enough, and I like how the
output can be run through crushed coral to act as a calcium reactor as
well....

My only question is where would one buy sulfur in bead form?

CW

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody read the article in the Aquarium Fish magazine page 8, on sulfur
> reactors?
>
> See also:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=e57e8d9666645dcc&rnum=1
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=d855daa0f2cb6ff9&rnum=8
>
> At the time of the above posts, I was curious, but not too confident on
the
> idea. I have been growing in the intrest of the use of sulfur in the reef
tank,
> over the time since the above posts. But I've just been so bussy the last
few
> years, though I have experimented with a bag of sulfur in a fresh water
tank
> sump with no adverse affects. Though most of my tanks are in terible
neglect
> since I've been so bussy the last couple years with the store.
>
> But the article shows more evidence towards the use of sulfur, and also
> mentions the idea of even putting sulfur in the sand in the tank.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

In article >, "CheezWiz" >
writes:

>I just read the article as well.
>It has peaked my interests as well. Looks simple enough, and I like how the
>output can be run through crushed coral to act as a calcium reactor as
>well....
>
>My only question is where would one buy sulfur in bead form?
>
>CW

Go to your favorate garden center to get it. It will be in chip form. Don't by
it from Wally-World, or other cheap scape outfit. You want a quality brand from
an independant garden center.

Wayne Sallee

[Wayne Sallee]

And one thing that is interesting me is the idea of maybe being able to use it
to break down toxins that soft corals give off. There is a lot of chemical
warfare going on in the reef tank, and it would be nice if something simple
like this could combat it. Yes carbon helps take the stuff out, but something
ongoing like a biological filter to break down the toxins would be nice. I have
a suspicion that live sponges help take up such toxins.

Wayne Sallee

[CheezWiz]

What in the world can you use it for besides gun powder?? (Lawn wise?)
I live in an apartment so I have 0 lawn care knowledge...

CW

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CheezWiz"
>
> writes:
>
> >I just read the article as well.
> >It has peaked my interests as well. Looks simple enough, and I like how
the
> >output can be run through crushed coral to act as a calcium reactor as
> >well....
> >
> >My only question is where would one buy sulfur in bead form?
> >
> >CW
>
> Go to your favorate garden center to get it. It will be in chip form.
Don't by
> it from Wally-World, or other cheap scape outfit. You want a quality brand
from
> an independant garden center.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

In article >, "CheezWiz" >
writes:

>What in the world can you use it for besides gun powder?? (Lawn wise?)
>I live in an apartment so I have 0 lawn care knowledge...
>
>CW

It is for making the soil more acidic. As bacteria feeds on the sulfur it makes
the soil more acidic.

Wayne Sallee

[CheezWiz]

Ahhh, well that makes since considering the conversation here huh?

CW
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CheezWiz"
>
> writes:
>
> >What in the world can you use it for besides gun powder?? (Lawn wise?)
> >I live in an apartment so I have 0 lawn care knowledge...
> >
> >CW
>
> It is for making the soil more acidic. As bacteria feeds on the sulfur it
makes
> the soil more acidic.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[LARRY KIMBLEY II]

Can I use sulfate powder! I was tole the sulfur chips were hard to get
ahold of due to terrorist making bombs and meth addicts using it in their
labs!
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> And one thing that is interesting me is the idea of maybe being able to
> use it
> to break down toxins that soft corals give off. There is a lot of chemical
> warfare going on in the reef tank, and it would be nice if something
> simple
> like this could combat it. Yes carbon helps take the stuff out, but
> something
> ongoing like a biological filter to break down the toxins would be nice. I
> have
> a suspicion that live sponges help take up such toxins.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

In article <Cyhkd.905$b92.251@trnddc09>, "LARRY KIMBLEY II"
> writes:

>Can I use sulfate powder! I was tole the sulfur chips were hard to get
>ahold of due to terrorist making bombs and meth addicts using it in their
>labs!

No it needs to be pure sulfur, because the bacteria that does the job, oxidizes
the sulfur. So if the sulfur is already oxidized, it won't work. That's how it
denitrifyes. It looks for oxygen whre ever it can get it, even taking it from
the nitrate.

Who told you that sulfur was hard to get now because of terrorists? I find it
hard to belive that the US would stop selling sulfur because of that. That
would be overreacting.

Wayne Sallee

[Happy'Cam'per]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article <Cyhkd.905$b92.251@trnddc09>, "LARRY KIMBLEY II"
I find it
> hard to belive that the US would stop selling sulfur because of that. That
> would be overreacting.

Of course, no-one has ever accused the yanks of overreacting! :-)
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[Bee]

[Bee]

I had to chuckle about the sulphur shortage, I'm reading this on my pda, at work driving a train with 12,000 tons of sulphur out of Calgary.

Brian

[Wayne Sallee]

In article <se3ld.204102$nl.78081@pd7tw3no>, Bee > writes:

>I had to chuckle about the sulphur shortage, I'm reading this on my pda, at
>work driving a train with 12,000 tons of sulphur out of Calgary.
>
>Brian

hehehe just think if you sold that on the black market for $20.00 and ounce,
you would be rich, hehehehe

I doubt that the selling of sulfur has been limited because of terists, but I
have not checked any stores to see. I already have a bag of sulfur and don't
need any :-)

Anybody want to buy a dollar bag of sulfur? hehehe

Wayne Sallee

[LARRY KIMBLEY II]

Oh also methamphetamine labs keep bags of sulfur chips around?????
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article <se3ld.204102$nl.78081@pd7tw3no>, Bee >
> writes:
>
>>I had to chuckle about the sulphur shortage, I'm reading this on my pda,
>>at
>>work driving a train with 12,000 tons of sulphur out of Calgary.
>>
>>Brian
>
> hehehe just think if you sold that on the black market for $20.00 and
> ounce,
> you would be rich, hehehehe
>
> I doubt that the selling of sulfur has been limited because of terists,
> but I
> have not checked any stores to see. I already have a bag of sulfur and
> don't
> need any :-)
>
> Anybody want to buy a dollar bag of sulfur? hehehe
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

In article <_09ld.751$GV5.316@trnddc04>, "LARRY KIMBLEY II"
> writes:

>Oh also methamphetamine labs keep bags of sulfur chips around?????

Yea a quick search on the net shows not corilation between strait sulfur and
methamphetamine labs.

Often sales clercs will not have the facts strait, and will pretend that they
know what they are talking about, and make excuses as to why they don't have
something.

Wayne Sallee

[Wayne Sallee]

Today I put a dollar bag in a 10 gallon tank for extreem reaction testing.

Wayne Sallee

[Wayne Sallee]

So is nobody else interested in this or are some of you (yes you) waiting
untill after the next article comes out in the magazine???

It's not the nitrate part that I'm so interested in, but rather the other
benefits or side effects, that it might have. I have no doubt that it will
lower nitrates.

I'm wondering if it will provide some biological filtering of the water that we
don't curently have enouph of to keep up with the buildup of toxins, if it will
sort of refresh the water. The hot sufur vents coming up down deep in the ocean
interest me too, as to what effect they have on the ocean.

Wayne Sallee

[CheezWiz]

I am interested for sure...
I am wondering how to adapt the design shown in the article to a smaller
scale.
I am thinking that a "Coil Denitrator" style design would create the
necessary removal of oxygen before hitting the sulfur chamber. Feed the
output through a home-made aragonite calcium reactor, then into the sump...

I would like to make both using transparent PVC or acrylic pipe, but both
are pretty expensive. I wish some business local to me sold it by the
foot....

CW
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> So is nobody else interested in this or are some of you (yes you) waiting
> untill after the next article comes out in the magazine???
>
> It's not the nitrate part that I'm so interested in, but rather the other
> benefits or side effects, that it might have. I have no doubt that it will
> lower nitrates.
>
> I'm wondering if it will provide some biological filtering of the water
that we
> don't curently have enouph of to keep up with the buildup of toxins, if it
will
> sort of refresh the water. The hot sufur vents coming up down deep in the
ocean
> interest me too, as to what effect they have on the ocean.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

In article >, "CheezWiz" >
writes:

>I would like to make both using transparent PVC or acrylic pipe, but both
>are pretty expensive. I wish some business local to me sold it by the
>foot....

Transparent PVC is cheaper than acrylic pipe, and it fits pvc fittings.

Wayne Sallee

[Wayne Sallee]

In article >, "CheezWiz" >
writes:

>I am thinking that a "Coil Denitrator" style design would create the
>necessary removal of oxygen before hitting the sulfur chamber. Feed the
>output through a home-made aragonite calcium reactor, then into the sump...

But the whole point of the sulfur is to lower the oxygen quickly. Trying to
lower the oxygen before it reached the sulfur woud miss the point.

Wayne Sallee

[Wayne Sallee]

There's realy nothing complicated about making one.

But my bigest interest is in the chemistry of what else it may be able to do
besides just lower nitrates. Sulfur is capable of lowering oxygen levels quite
quickly, and thus will alow a larger water flow through the system alowing more
water to be filtered.

It is a slow process that takes time for the bacteria to become established,
and as it becomes established, it works faster and faster.

Wayne Sallee

[kryppy]

On 21 Nov 2004 13:32:30 GMT, (Wayne Sallee) wrote:

>In article >, "CheezWiz" >
>writes:
>
>>I would like to make both using transparent PVC or acrylic pipe, but both
>>are pretty expensive. I wish some business local to me sold it by the
>>foot....
>
>Transparent PVC is cheaper than acrylic pipe, and it fits pvc fittings.


I've never seen it. Where can I get some transparent PVC????

[Wayne Sallee]

In article >, kryppy
> writes:

>
>I've never seen it. Where can I get some transparent PVC????
>

aquaticeco.com

Wayne Sallee

[CheezWiz]

>>I am thinking that a "Coil Denitrator" style design would create the
>>necessary removal of oxygen before hitting the sulfur chamber. Feed the
>>output through a home-made aragonite calcium reactor, then into the
>>sump...
>
> But the whole point of the sulfur is to lower the oxygen quickly. Trying
> to
> lower the oxygen before it reached the sulfur woud miss the point.

I thought the whole point od the sulfur is that the particular bacteria that
eat it are able to break down NO3 to get the oxygen to do it. If you have O2
rich water hitting any of the sulfur, then it is a waste of space...
(Thinking Small)

In a small setup, like say a 18" tall by say 4"-6" dia, would it be anoxic
enough to cause the necessary reaction with NO3??? (I do not see it) The
more anoxic the water that hits the sulfur, the better... Then the bacteria
HAS to pull its O2 from NO3.. Right??

The ones in the article look about 8-10" round and 7 feet tall.... No
mention of flow rate...

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CheezWiz"
> >
> writes:
>
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[CheezWiz]

This page mentions a 5 liter column, not so big.. No mention of additional
anoxic prep needed...
That would be about 4" x 3 feet ish..?

http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm

Time for a new thread....!

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CheezWiz"
> >
> writes:
>
>>I am thinking that a "Coil Denitrator" style design would create the
>>necessary removal of oxygen before hitting the sulfur chamber. Feed the
>>output through a home-made aragonite calcium reactor, then into the
>>sump...
>
> But the whole point of the sulfur is to lower the oxygen quickly. Trying
> to
> lower the oxygen before it reached the sulfur woud miss the point.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

[Wayne Sallee]

Well think of a 2 liter pop bottle, and multiply that by 2.5

Wayne Sallee



In article >, "CheezWiz" >
writes:

>This page mentions a 5 liter column, not so big.. No mention of additional
>anoxic prep needed...
>That would be about 4" x 3 feet ish..?
>
>http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm
>

[Wayne Sallee]

I'm still interested in the extreem testing. Has anyone extreem tested it?

Wayne Sallee

[WayneSallee.com]

So hase anyone in this newsgroup, besides me, started testing the use of sulfur
in the reef tank?

Wayne Sallee

[CapFusion]

"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
> So hase anyone in this newsgroup, besides me, started testing the use of
> sulfur
> in the reef tank?
>
> Wayne Sallee
>

I find it to be too much of a work [IMHO].
Having DSB / LR and occasionally turn on PS when desperately need it will be
alot easier.
Basic DSB / LR method will do the job.

CapFusion,...

[WayneSallee.com]

Yea live rock and live sand will do a good job of denitrifying. Though my
interest in the sulfur is not much in it's ability to denitrify, but in what
other effects it may have on the reef.

I like doing extreem testing, so I've put sulfur in poly bags in good water
flow areas to see what effects it might have on the reef.

Wayne Sallee


In article >, "CapFusion"
> writes:

>I find it to be too much of a work [IMHO].
>Having DSB / LR and occasionally turn on PS when desperately need it will be
>alot easier.
>Basic DSB / LR method will do the job.
>
>CapFusion,...

[CapFusion]

You can check this -
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/Soler/DenitratorSoufre.html

CapFusion,...


"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
> Yea live rock and live sand will do a good job of denitrifying. Though my
> interest in the sulfur is not much in it's ability to denitrify, but in
> what
> other effects it may have on the reef.
>
> I like doing extreem testing, so I've put sulfur in poly bags in good
> water
> flow areas to see what effects it might have on the reef.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>
>
> In article >, "CapFusion"
> > writes:
>
>>I find it to be too much of a work [IMHO].
>>Having DSB / LR and occasionally turn on PS when desperately need it will
>>be
>>alot easier.
>>Basic DSB / LR method will do the job.
>>
>>CapFusion,...
>
>

[CapFusion]

Popularity seem to be less but when there a good topic or atleast controvesy
topic will spike. There are also more webbase regarding Reef / aquarium
popping up than before. Speaking of webbase, there some sulfur thread about
it too, especial in Ron.

There a hot thread going on now that is not really related to reef -
"Stupid American ...."

CapFusion,...


"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
> Yea that link has altready been discussed on this thread. And like I said,
> I'm
> more interested in the other effects that the sulfur has on the reef
> system.
>
> It's also sad how this newsgroup has decreased in popularity over the last
> couple of years. There just isn't as much activity here like there used to
> be.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>
>
> In article >, "CapFusion"
> > writes:
>
>>You can check this -
>>http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/Soler/DenitratorSoufre.html
>>
>>CapFusion,...
>

[WayneSallee.com]

I found the Seacope aticl on it at
http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/seascope/00SS1711.htm

Wayne Sallee

[CapFusion]

"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
>I found the Seacope aticl on it at
> http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/seascope/00SS1711.htm
>

That article and the previous link basically /about indicate the same method
how sulfur are use.
I still believe it too much of a work to complish the same task as DSB/LR
and without all that hassle.
If there a more easier and efficient method, then that will be or might
become the next trend.

CapFusion,...

[WayneSallee.com]

In article >, "CapFusion"
> writes:

>
>That article and the previous link basically /about indicate the same method
>how sulfur are use.
>I still believe it too much of a work to complish the same task as DSB/LR
>and without all that hassle.
>If there a more easier and efficient method, then that will be or might
>become the next trend.
>
>CapFusion,...
>

Absolutly. Nothing replaces dsb/lr I also once a pon a time decided to move my
live sand down to the sump, instead of haveing it in the reef, and had rock
bottom (portland cement) instead. It was an interesting experiment. I still use
portland cement bottom, but with san on top. That way if a fish makes a bare
spot in the sand, you have nice natural rock showing through instead of clear
glass. But anyway the experiment clearly showed that live sand in the sump is
not as beneficial as live sand in the reef, because the live sand in the sump
does not recive the fish droppings as the live sand in the reef does. Though
anyway that's getting a bit off subject, but yes nothing replaces dsb/lr.

But I'm interested in the sulfur cycle in the reef, and what effects it has on
the reef.

I found the threads on reef central. Ther's a bunch of them. I did a lot of
reading with all the threads I found. I like this newsgroup better though. It's
just more efficient.

Natural levels of sulfur is also beneficial to the dsb.

Wayne Sallee

[WayneSallee.com]

In article >,
(WayneSallee.com) writes:

>once a pon a time

LOL I definately need to get some sleep.

Wayne Sallee

[CapFusion]

"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CapFusion"
> > writes:
>
>>
>>That article and the previous link basically /about indicate the same
>>method
>>how sulfur are use.
>>I still believe it too much of a work to complish the same task as DSB/LR
>>and without all that hassle.
>>If there a more easier and efficient method, then that will be or might
>>become the next trend.
>>
>>CapFusion,...
>>
>
> Absolutly. Nothing replaces dsb/lr I also once a pon a time decided to
> move my
> live sand down to the sump, instead of haveing it in the reef, and had
> rock
> bottom (portland cement) instead. It was an interesting experiment. I
> still use
> portland cement bottom, but with san on top. That way if a fish makes a
> bare
> spot in the sand, you have nice natural rock showing through instead of
> clear
> glass. But anyway the experiment clearly showed that live sand in the sump
> is
> not as beneficial as live sand in the reef, because the live sand in the
> sump
> does not recive the fish droppings as the live sand in the reef does.
> Though
> anyway that's getting a bit off subject, but yes nothing replaces dsb/lr.
>
> But I'm interested in the sulfur cycle in the reef, and what effects it
> has on
> the reef.
>
> I found the threads on reef central. Ther's a bunch of them. I did a lot
> of
> reading with all the threads I found. I like this newsgroup better though.
> It's
> just more efficient.
>
> Natural levels of sulfur is also beneficial to the dsb.
>

I do not know about other but as for my main tank, I prefer to thave some
inches of sand to make it more natural looking and avoid fish from digging
to make a hole where i can see the bottom. About the dropping, I also do not
mine since it will become like a ferterlizer (sp?) for algae growth. Algae
will be lunch for my peppermint shrimp. My britleworm may take some
dropping. Good idea about the cement on tank floor. I have eggcrate there to
prevent shifting of sand and placement of rock.

CapFusion,...

[WayneSallee.com]

In article >, "CapFusion"
> writes:

>Good idea about the cement on tank floor. I have eggcrate there to
>prevent shifting of sand and placement of rock.

One thing to keep in mind for anyone puting portland cement on the floor, place
a heavy black plastic down first so that the cement does not bond with the
glass, and cause problems. Also the portland cement needs to be cured before
adding fish. Small amounts to cement a coral in place won't make much differenc
in the ph, but a cement floor will. I also have portland cement walls on the
back, and sides of the tank. For curing, I just filled the tank up with water,
added sugar and yeast, and let the brewering begin. The co2 produced by the
yeast, conditions the cement and makes it safe. And it smells like fresh backed
bread in the room. By the time it starts to smell less than pleasant, the
cement will be conditioned, and water can be emptyed, tank refilled with clean
water and emptyed again.

Wayne Sallee

[Tre' Landrum]

New threat from this thread titled "Cement floor". Thanks

"WayneSallee.com" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "CapFusion"
> > writes:
>
>>
>>That article and the previous link basically /about indicate the same
>>method
>>how sulfur are use.
>>I still believe it too much of a work to complish the same task as DSB/LR
>>and without all that hassle.
>>If there a more easier and efficient method, then that will be or might
>>become the next trend.
>>
>>CapFusion,...
>>
>
> Absolutly. Nothing replaces dsb/lr I also once a pon a time decided to
> move my
> live sand down to the sump, instead of haveing it in the reef, and had
> rock
> bottom (portland cement) instead. It was an interesting experiment. I
> still use
> portland cement bottom, but with san on top. That way if a fish makes a
> bare
> spot in the sand, you have nice natural rock showing through instead of
> clear
> glass. But anyway the experiment clearly showed that live sand in the sump
> is
> not as beneficial as live sand in the reef, because the live sand in the
> sump
> does not recive the fish droppings as the live sand in the reef does.
> Though
> anyway that's getting a bit off subject, but yes nothing replaces dsb/lr.
>
> But I'm interested in the sulfur cycle in the reef, and what effects it
> has on
> the reef.
>
> I found the threads on reef central. Ther's a bunch of them. I did a lot
> of
> reading with all the threads I found. I like this newsgroup better though.
> It's
> just more efficient.
>
> Natural levels of sulfur is also beneficial to the dsb.
>
> Wayne Sallee
>