Part time UGF

[default]

Got a question, facts and opinions are welcome.

I've got a 55g with two UGF plates. One uplift tube goes to a constantly
running AquaClear 300 and a power head sits on top of the other uplift tube.
I've got timers set up to have lights on 12 hours, and the power head with
airation to come on at night when the lights go out. Question: Am I creating a
problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day? There are two reasons I
turn it off during daylight. One is to make feeding easier, less turbulence.
The other is because the plants "run" during the day so extra oxygen isn't
required.

thanks,
steve

[Dan J.S.]

"default" > wrote in message
...
> Got a question, facts and opinions are welcome.
>
> I've got a 55g with two UGF plates. One uplift tube goes to a constantly
> running AquaClear 300 and a power head sits on top of the other uplift
> tube.
> I've got timers set up to have lights on 12 hours, and the power head with
> airation to come on at night when the lights go out. Question: Am I
> creating a
> problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day? There are two
> reasons I
> turn it off during daylight. One is to make feeding easier, less
> turbulence.
> The other is because the plants "run" during the day so extra oxygen isn't
> required.
>
> thanks,
> steve
>
>

Yes, the bacteria needs to be active... you are risking their demise... I
would go farther and say get rid of the ugf... sometimes, stuff gets trapped
under a ugf that becomes toxic to the fish.. its not uncommon for all the
fish to die one day after that seal is broken...

[default]

> Yes, the bacteria needs to be active... you are risking their demise... I
> would go farther and say get rid of the ugf... sometimes, stuff gets trapped
> under a ugf that becomes toxic to the fish.. its not uncommon for all the
> fish to die one day after that seal is broken...
>
>

Could this be the reason for the popularity of the cannister type filters?
UGF's have been used for many years. I wonder what is the cause of this
toxicity buildup, and sudden release? Any documentation to read? I'm sure
there is more to it than time and luck.

steve

[Ben]

default wrote:

> I've got a 55g with two UGF plates. One uplift tube goes to a constantly
> running AquaClear 300 and a power head sits on top of the other uplift tube.
> I've got timers set up to have lights on 12 hours, and the power head with
> airation to come on at night when the lights go out. Question: Am I creating a
> problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day? There are two reasons I
> turn it off during daylight. One is to make feeding easier, less turbulence.
> The other is because the plants "run" during the day so extra oxygen isn't
> required.

No, there's no problem with this per say but it's no longer working as
an undergravel filter.

The way your doing it will filter out all the crud which is good a good
thing but it will no longer grow the beneficial bacteria one uses a UGF
to get.

Personally, I run my ugf normally 24/7 and every so often I'll pull up
one of the tubes and syphon out all the crap, then back to normal.

-Ben

[Dan J.S.]

"default" > wrote in message
...
>> Yes, the bacteria needs to be active... you are risking their demise... I
>> would go farther and say get rid of the ugf... sometimes, stuff gets
>> trapped
>> under a ugf that becomes toxic to the fish.. its not uncommon for all the
>> fish to die one day after that seal is broken...
>>
>>
>
> Could this be the reason for the popularity of the cannister type filters?
> UGF's have been used for many years. I wonder what is the cause of this
> toxicity buildup, and sudden release? Any documentation to read? I'm
> sure
> there is more to it than time and luck.
>
> steve
>
>

Natural cementation of gravel, keep in mind the ugf is pulling the gravel
down, eventually it could cement pockets. Thinner layers of gravel, or
larger size pebbles (that you vacuum once a month) with a canister filter
are your best bet.

Not sure about links... This is from actual books I read and some
experience.. (I was in the hobby for over 25 years now)

[Billy]

"default" > wrote in message
...
| Could this be the reason for the popularity of the cannister type
filters?
| UGF's have been used for many years.

Yes, they HAVE been in use for many years. But I liken them to any
other out-dated technology. They worked just fine, but tech has moved
on, and there are other things that are superior to them in many
ways. Many people still use them, and they still do everything they
were designed to do.

[MrHappy]

You need to run the UGF all the time to keep the bacteria bed
healthy

Suggest

1. Use a gravel hoover weekly
2. Siphon the sludge from under the UG plates on a monthly basis

If you like UGFs (I don't), try a reverse UGF using the powerhead
to pump water under the plates then up through the gravel - this
stops compaction and is more efficient but keeps stuff suspended in
the water column

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[default]

"Dan J.S." > wrote in message
>
> Natural cementation of gravel, keep in mind the ugf is pulling the gravel
> down, eventually it could cement pockets. Thinner layers of gravel, or
> larger size pebbles (that you vacuum once a month) with a canister filter
> are your best bet.
>
> Not sure about links... This is from actual books I read and some
> experience.. (I was in the hobby for over 25 years now)
>

I see, this really explains the phenomena I experienced the last time I had my
tank set up. With the bog wood and slate caves, there are areas of gravel that
didn't get vacuumed very well. I found some pockets of gravel that had become
hard as cement. Also, in an attempt to make some more natural appearing
aquascape, I had (and still have) gravel that is up to 4 inches deep.

I'll have to pay more attention to this in the future. I know now I also had
"old tank syndrome", quite severe I'm afraid. I just read that article in the
last few days.

thanks for the insight,
steve

[default]

"Ben" > wrote in message
...

> No, there's no problem with this per say but it's no longer working as
> an undergravel filter.
>
> The way your doing it will filter out all the crud which is good a good
> thing but it will no longer grow the beneficial bacteria one uses a UGF
> to get.
>
> Personally, I run my ugf normally 24/7 and every so often I'll pull up
> one of the tubes and syphon out all the crap, then back to normal.
>
> -Ben

Thanks, Ben. Maybe I'll just turn off the bubble blaster during feeding. My
tank is more accessible this go around so it will be easier to keep the gravel
bed maintained.

steve

[default]

"MrHappy" > wrote in message
...
> You need to run the UGF all the time to keep the bacteria bed
> healthy
>
> Suggest
>
> 1. Use a gravel hoover weekly
> 2. Siphon the sludge from under the UG plates on a monthly basis
>
> If you like UGFs (I don't), try a reverse UGF using the powerhead
> to pump water under the plates then up through the gravel - this
> stops compaction and is more efficient but keeps stuff suspended in
> the water column

Hoover - check
Siphon - check
Is there a store bought attachment for my powerhead to adapt to the uplift tube?
Right now it just sits on top. The outlet fan isn't shaped to attach to a tube.
I'm not too worried about suspended particles, the AC 300 can handle trapping
all that.

steve

[NetMax]

"default" > wrote in message
...
> Got a question, facts and opinions are welcome.
>
> I've got a 55g with two UGF plates. One uplift tube goes to a
> constantly
> running AquaClear 300 and a power head sits on top of the other uplift
> tube.
> I've got timers set up to have lights on 12 hours, and the power head
> with
> airation to come on at night when the lights go out. Question: Am I
> creating a
> problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day? There are two
> reasons I
> turn it off during daylight. One is to make feeding easier, less
> turbulence.
> The other is because the plants "run" during the day so extra oxygen
> isn't
> required.
>
> thanks,
> steve


If the UGF is a single unit with 2 lift tubes, and one tube is always
under suction from your AquaClear, then if you turn off your powerhead,
the water will be drawn in through the idle powerhead instead of through
the gravel.

Some options are to plumb both uplifts to your AC300, or discontinue the
use of the 2nd uplift all together (block the holes and center the single
uplift tube in the UGF plates). If you still want your powerhead on at
night, run it as a separate sponge filter.

Personally, I think you're getting as much aeration from the AC300, as
the powerhead with air line, but ymmv. I generally prefer to have
filtration system(s) (redundancy) running 24/7 to not create swings in
the bacterial populations.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[NetMax]

"steve" > wrote in message
om...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> >...
>> "default" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
> Question: Am I
>> > creating a
>> > problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day?
>
>> If the UGF is a single unit with 2 lift tubes, and one tube is always
>> under suction from your AquaClear, then if you turn off your
>> powerhead,
>> the water will be drawn in through the idle powerhead instead of
>> through
>> the gravel.
>>
>> Some options are to plumb both uplifts to your AC300, or discontinue
>> the
>> use of the 2nd uplift all together (block the holes and center the
>> single
>> uplift tube in the UGF plates). If you still want your powerhead on
>> at
>> night, run it as a separate sponge filter.
>>
>> Personally, I think you're getting as much aeration from the AC300, as
>> the powerhead with air line, but ymmv. I generally prefer to have
>> filtration system(s) (redundancy) running 24/7 to not create swings in
>> the bacterial populations.
>
> Thanks for the reply, Max. I just made the changes Saturday. I
> pulled the UL tubes from both UGF's and put an inlet filter on both
> the AQ300 and the PH. I stuck the outlet nozzle of the PH down one
> UGF plate hole and I'm running that half now as a RUGF. The AQ300 is
> is splashing away happily in the opposite corner.
>
> The main reason I changed is because I have deep gravel (3-4 inches)
> and some slate piles that cover a larger portion of the gravel. The
> last time I had this tank set up in a similar fashion I now know I
> suffered from OTS. There were some areas of gravel that were hard as
> concrete and I hadn't vac'd under the rock piles for two years. Now,
> running a RUGF in the rock pile area, I shouldn't get too much buildup
> of waste matter there. The AQ300 and fine filament media inlet
> filters should provide sufficient area to culture bacteria.
>
> I'm testing for ammonia, Nitrites and 'trates and haven't seen any
> change yet.
>
> steve

Sounds good. I haven't got much experience with RUGFs but from what I've
read & heard, they only keep the detritus a bit higher in the substrate,
so don't expect too too much improvement (in regards to OTS). A more
reliable solution is to reduce your gravel depth. At least for the side
where the gravel is between the slate and the RUGF, things should stay
quite a bit clearer, as the RUGF force would concentrate to blow around
the slate edges (in theory ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[steve]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "default" > wrote in message
> ...

Question: Am I
> > creating a
> > problem by running an UGF for only 12 hours each day?

> If the UGF is a single unit with 2 lift tubes, and one tube is always
> under suction from your AquaClear, then if you turn off your powerhead,
> the water will be drawn in through the idle powerhead instead of through
> the gravel.
>
> Some options are to plumb both uplifts to your AC300, or discontinue the
> use of the 2nd uplift all together (block the holes and center the single
> uplift tube in the UGF plates). If you still want your powerhead on at
> night, run it as a separate sponge filter.
>
> Personally, I think you're getting as much aeration from the AC300, as
> the powerhead with air line, but ymmv. I generally prefer to have
> filtration system(s) (redundancy) running 24/7 to not create swings in
> the bacterial populations.

Thanks for the reply, Max. I just made the changes Saturday. I
pulled the UL tubes from both UGF's and put an inlet filter on both
the AQ300 and the PH. I stuck the outlet nozzle of the PH down one
UGF plate hole and I'm running that half now as a RUGF. The AQ300 is
is splashing away happily in the opposite corner.

The main reason I changed is because I have deep gravel (3-4 inches)
and some slate piles that cover a larger portion of the gravel. The
last time I had this tank set up in a similar fashion I now know I
suffered from OTS. There were some areas of gravel that were hard as
concrete and I hadn't vac'd under the rock piles for two years. Now,
running a RUGF in the rock pile area, I shouldn't get too much buildup
of waste matter there. The AQ300 and fine filament media inlet
filters should provide sufficient area to culture bacteria.

I'm testing for ammonia, Nitrites and 'trates and haven't seen any
change yet.

steve