Seting up 100g

[Harry Ohanian]

Hello all
I want to set up a 100g aquarium with a wet/dry filter sump that I have and
would like to know how I should set up the tank and sump for a mini reef?

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Harry,

When you say "mini reef" and 100g in the same sentence, some of us blink twice.
After all, I have a 29g reef and a 55g reef. :)

It isn't recommended to use a wet/dry with a reef tank, because wet/dry systems
use bioballs to accellerate the A-N-N cycle and add too many nitrates to the
water. This is toxic to invertebrates, virtually the backbone of a reef.

You might check out this page for a good overview:
http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm

Marc


Harry Ohanian wrote:

> Hello all
> I want to set up a 100g aquarium with a wet/dry filter sump that I have and
> would like to know how I should set up the tank and sump for a mini reef?

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Harry Ohanian]

I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something else
in instead?
I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?
"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Harry,
>
> When you say "mini reef" and 100g in the same sentence, some of us blink
twice.
> After all, I have a 29g reef and a 55g reef. :)
>
> It isn't recommended to use a wet/dry with a reef tank, because wet/dry
systems
> use bioballs to accellerate the A-N-N cycle and add too many nitrates to
the
> water. This is toxic to invertebrates, virtually the backbone of a reef.
>
> You might check out this page for a good overview:
> http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm
>
> Marc
>
>
> Harry Ohanian wrote:
>
> > Hello all
> > I want to set up a 100g aquarium with a wet/dry filter sump that I have
and
> > would like to know how I should set up the tank and sump for a mini
reef?
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Harry Ohanian]

Marc
I saw a diagram using pvc to hold plastic diffuser for florescent lamps 1"
above the bottom and fiberglass screen for a separation then 1" of coarse
sand, screen again then 2" of fine and live sands. Live rock and protein
skimmer that should work. Would I need light on the live rock in the sump?
Harry


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Harry,
>
> You could replace the bioballs with LR (live rock), but it needs to be
> submerged, not just dripped upon.
>
> The Jaubert method works, but must be set up correctly. Most people have
found
> it much easier to simply use 4" to 6" of aragonite sand and set it up as a
> "DSB".
>
> Marc
>
>
> Harry Ohanian wrote:
>
> > I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something
else
> > in instead?
> > I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?
> > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hi Harry,
> > >
> > > When you say "mini reef" and 100g in the same sentence, some of us
blink
> > twice.
> > > After all, I have a 29g reef and a 55g reef. :)
> > >
> > > It isn't recommended to use a wet/dry with a reef tank, because
wet/dry
> > systems
> > > use bioballs to accellerate the A-N-N cycle and add too many nitrates
to
> > the
> > > water. This is toxic to invertebrates, virtually the backbone of a
reef.
> > >
> > > You might check out this page for a good overview:
> > > http://www.melevsreef.com/overview.htm
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > > Harry Ohanian wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello all
> > > > I want to set up a 100g aquarium with a wet/dry filter sump that I
have
> > and
> > > > would like to know how I should set up the tank and sump for a mini
> > reef?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Dragon Slayer]

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Harry,
>
> When you say "mini reef" and 100g in the same sentence, some of us blink
twice.
> After all, I have a 29g reef and a 55g reef. :)


comparatively speaking all aquariums regardless of size are "mini-reefs"

the ocean is a mighty big thing to compare to. :)

kc

[richard reynolds]

> I saw a diagram using pvc to hold plastic diffuser for florescent lamps 1"
> above the bottom and fiberglass screen for a separation then 1" of coarse
> sand, screen again then 2" of fine and live sands. Live rock and protein
> skimmer that should work. Would I need light on the live rock in the sump?

thats mostly correct as with any sand bed it will in time become live, so "then 2" of fine
and live sands" live or not doesnt really make a difference, what does make the biggest
difference is did you do it all correctly, if you mess up with it it can turn into a major
pain, including dead fish/corals and a stinky house. by messing up some is in the design &
construction, others are in thinking you know how it works and trying to make it better.
ive done both DSB's and plennums, plennums are much better at nitrate removal than any
dsb, but there harder to build, and take a better knowledge of the system before you
start.

--
--
richard reynolds

[Dave Johnson]

"Harry Ohanian" > wrote in message
news:vPdXa.40763$cF.14835@rwcrnsc53...
> I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something else
> in instead?
> I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?

I've just been doing some reading on a new study, and at least
from these authors, that doesn't seem to be the case.

It's quite interesting and contradicts a lot of "common knowledge",
re - wet/dry and biowheels vs. nitrate level, as is presented in this
group. Surprised the heck out of me and is certainly info for more
research.

The test involved 4 systems of this setup: 284L, temperature
controlled environment, 2 10,000K euro MH, 2 40W actinic,
chiller, 32kg cured Fiji LR, weekly kalkwasser (except Jaubert)
protein skimmer (except Jaubert), salinity = 30ppt.
1) trickle filter - wet/dry
2) tidepool biowheel
3) Berlin
4) Jaubert w/ plenum

The results:
1) for 100 days nitrate/nitrogen and orthosphosphate = no difference
at 114 days the nitrate increased in both Berlin and Jaubert (very,
very large spike from day 114 on in Jaubert) Berlin and biowheel
were lowest but Berlin had decent size spike around day 135.
2) pH, alkalinity & total inorganic carbon = no difference at 100
days, Jaubert had slightly lower pH, slightly greater alk and
carbon values (says insignificant differences)
3) TOC - "The greatest difference in water quality between the
four filtration systems is that the Jaubert filtered aquarium had
a significantly greater concentration of total organic carbon.
The trickle, BioWheel and Berlin systems had TOC values of
less than 1 mg/L-C However, the TOC in the Jaubert system
never dropped below 2 mg/L-C. The water change on day 101
resulted in a temporary drop in the TOC concentration, from
3.4 to 2.4 mg/L-C, but this was short lived and the TOC concentration
was soon back up to 3.5 mg/L-C." Berlin and biowheel were
lowest

Also, "in terms of coral health, the corals in the Jaubert system
did not do well and this may be linked to the increasing TOC
concentration."

The summary is the kicker (from wet/dry, biowheel perspective)
"To be successful, over the long term, one needs a large amount
of live rock, a good lighting system, and an organic carbon
removal system. Having a dedicated biological filter may be
an added plus but it is certainly not a detriment to the goal of
setting up and maintaining a healthy mini-reef aquarium."

Tests performed by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec.

That should start the wheels of discussion going! (I'm not
proposing 1 system over another, just presented as info)

Cheers,
Dave Johnson

[Marc Levenson]

That was interesting Dave.

I know the plenum was the way it was done in the past, and before that was the
might UGF. :) Myself, I think the DSBs are really the easiest way to go, as
well as a refugium.

I also am leaning toward the belief that 'old tank syndrome' requires that the
DSB be replaced completely every 4 or 5 years, to avoid a crash. However, in
one recent discussion I read, it seemed like it wasn't really OTS as much as
Lazy Reefer Syndrome. They get familiar with their system, and do less water
changes and less water tests. Things build up over time and suddenly disaster
strikes. I hope I don't end up being a LRS myself one day.

Marc


Dave Johnson wrote:

> "Harry Ohanian" > wrote in message
> news:vPdXa.40763$cF.14835@rwcrnsc53...
> > I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something else
> > in instead?
> > I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?
>
> I've just been doing some reading on a new study, and at least
> from these authors, that doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> It's quite interesting and contradicts a lot of "common knowledge",
> re - wet/dry and biowheels vs. nitrate level, as is presented in this
> group. Surprised the heck out of me and is certainly info for more
> research.
>
> The test involved 4 systems of this setup: 284L, temperature
> controlled environment, 2 10,000K euro MH, 2 40W actinic,
> chiller, 32kg cured Fiji LR, weekly kalkwasser (except Jaubert)
> protein skimmer (except Jaubert), salinity = 30ppt.
> 1) trickle filter - wet/dry
> 2) tidepool biowheel
> 3) Berlin
> 4) Jaubert w/ plenum
>
> The results:
> 1) for 100 days nitrate/nitrogen and orthosphosphate = no difference
> at 114 days the nitrate increased in both Berlin and Jaubert (very,
> very large spike from day 114 on in Jaubert) Berlin and biowheel
> were lowest but Berlin had decent size spike around day 135.
> 2) pH, alkalinity & total inorganic carbon = no difference at 100
> days, Jaubert had slightly lower pH, slightly greater alk and
> carbon values (says insignificant differences)
> 3) TOC - "The greatest difference in water quality between the
> four filtration systems is that the Jaubert filtered aquarium had
> a significantly greater concentration of total organic carbon.
> The trickle, BioWheel and Berlin systems had TOC values of
> less than 1 mg/L-C However, the TOC in the Jaubert system
> never dropped below 2 mg/L-C. The water change on day 101
> resulted in a temporary drop in the TOC concentration, from
> 3.4 to 2.4 mg/L-C, but this was short lived and the TOC concentration
> was soon back up to 3.5 mg/L-C." Berlin and biowheel were
> lowest
>
> Also, "in terms of coral health, the corals in the Jaubert system
> did not do well and this may be linked to the increasing TOC
> concentration."
>
> The summary is the kicker (from wet/dry, biowheel perspective)
> "To be successful, over the long term, one needs a large amount
> of live rock, a good lighting system, and an organic carbon
> removal system. Having a dedicated biological filter may be
> an added plus but it is certainly not a detriment to the goal of
> setting up and maintaining a healthy mini-reef aquarium."
>
> Tests performed by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec.
>
> That should start the wheels of discussion going! (I'm not
> proposing 1 system over another, just presented as info)
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Johnson

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Dave Johnson]

http://www.marineland.com/news_seascope.asp
current newsletter.

Cheers,
Dave Johnson

"richard reynolds" > wrote in message
. ..
> I'd like to know where you read that, I find it interesting the Jaubert
system is NOT a
> closed system it takes water in from the medatranian(sp) sea, in a closed
system I thought
> the addition of the skimmer was recomended/required, I have ran a plennum
based system for
> a while now with a skimmer, still do partially anyways. I like them but as
I have said
> here before I dont recomend them. its usually a construction issue vs a
DSB.
>
> --
> --
> richard reynolds
>
>
> > > I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something
else
> > > in instead?
> > > I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?
> >
> > I've just been doing some reading on a new study, and at least
> > from these authors, that doesn't seem to be the case.
> >
> > It's quite interesting and contradicts a lot of "common knowledge",
> > re - wet/dry and biowheels vs. nitrate level, as is presented in this
> > group. Surprised the heck out of me and is certainly info for more
> > research.
> >
> > The test involved 4 systems of this setup: 284L, temperature
> > controlled environment, 2 10,000K euro MH, 2 40W actinic,
> > chiller, 32kg cured Fiji LR, weekly kalkwasser (except Jaubert)
> > protein skimmer (except Jaubert), salinity = 30ppt.
> > 1) trickle filter - wet/dry
> > 2) tidepool biowheel
> > 3) Berlin
> > 4) Jaubert w/ plenum
> >
> > The results:
> > 1) for 100 days nitrate/nitrogen and orthosphosphate = no difference
> > at 114 days the nitrate increased in both Berlin and Jaubert (very,
> > very large spike from day 114 on in Jaubert) Berlin and biowheel
> > were lowest but Berlin had decent size spike around day 135.
> > 2) pH, alkalinity & total inorganic carbon = no difference at 100
> > days, Jaubert had slightly lower pH, slightly greater alk and
> > carbon values (says insignificant differences)
> > 3) TOC - "The greatest difference in water quality between the
> > four filtration systems is that the Jaubert filtered aquarium had
> > a significantly greater concentration of total organic carbon.
> > The trickle, BioWheel and Berlin systems had TOC values of
> > less than 1 mg/L-C However, the TOC in the Jaubert system
> > never dropped below 2 mg/L-C. The water change on day 101
> > resulted in a temporary drop in the TOC concentration, from
> > 3.4 to 2.4 mg/L-C, but this was short lived and the TOC
concentration
> > was soon back up to 3.5 mg/L-C." Berlin and biowheel were
> > lowest
> >
> > Also, "in terms of coral health, the corals in the Jaubert system
> > did not do well and this may be linked to the increasing TOC
> > concentration."
> >
> > The summary is the kicker (from wet/dry, biowheel perspective)
> > "To be successful, over the long term, one needs a large amount
> > of live rock, a good lighting system, and an organic carbon
> > removal system. Having a dedicated biological filter may be
> > an added plus but it is certainly not a detriment to the goal of
> > setting up and maintaining a healthy mini-reef aquarium."
> >
> > Tests performed by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec.
> >
> > That should start the wheels of discussion going! (I'm not
> > proposing 1 system over another, just presented as info)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Johnson
> >
> >
>
>

[Brian]

A few things I would look at. The Jaubert works better after 6 mths (at
least in my past experience) Do you have any test info after a year or two.
Also if they just used crushed coral they didn't set it up right.

Dave Johnson wrote:
> http://www.marineland.com/news_seascope.asp
> current newsletter.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Johnson
>
> "richard reynolds" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>I'd like to know where you read that, I find it interesting the Jaubert
>
> system is NOT a
>
>>closed system it takes water in from the medatranian(sp) sea, in a closed
>
> system I thought
>
>>the addition of the skimmer was recomended/required, I have ran a plennum
>
> based system for
>
>>a while now with a skimmer, still do partially anyways. I like them but as
>
> I have said
>
>>here before I dont recomend them. its usually a construction issue vs a
>
> DSB.
>
>>--
>>--
>>richard reynolds

>>
>>
>>>>I've read that you can keep the bio balls out but can I put something
>
> else
>
>>>>in instead?
>>>>I want to go with the Jaubert system. That seems the best isn't it?
>>>
>>>I've just been doing some reading on a new study, and at least
>>>from these authors, that doesn't seem to be the case.
>>>
>>>It's quite interesting and contradicts a lot of "common knowledge",
>>>re - wet/dry and biowheels vs. nitrate level, as is presented in this
>>>group. Surprised the heck out of me and is certainly info for more
>>>research.
>>>
>>>The test involved 4 systems of this setup: 284L, temperature
>>>controlled environment, 2 10,000K euro MH, 2 40W actinic,
>>>chiller, 32kg cured Fiji LR, weekly kalkwasser (except Jaubert)
>>>protein skimmer (except Jaubert), salinity = 30ppt.
>>>1) trickle filter - wet/dry
>>>2) tidepool biowheel
>>>3) Berlin
>>>4) Jaubert w/ plenum
>>>
>>>The results:
>>>1) for 100 days nitrate/nitrogen and orthosphosphate = no difference
>>> at 114 days the nitrate increased in both Berlin and Jaubert (very,
>>> very large spike from day 114 on in Jaubert) Berlin and biowheel
>>> were lowest but Berlin had decent size spike around day 135.
>>>2) pH, alkalinity & total inorganic carbon = no difference at 100
>>> days, Jaubert had slightly lower pH, slightly greater alk and
>>> carbon values (says insignificant differences)
>>>3) TOC - "The greatest difference in water quality between the
>>> four filtration systems is that the Jaubert filtered aquarium had
>>> a significantly greater concentration of total organic carbon.
>>> The trickle, BioWheel and Berlin systems had TOC values of
>>> less than 1 mg/L-C However, the TOC in the Jaubert system
>>> never dropped below 2 mg/L-C. The water change on day 101
>>> resulted in a temporary drop in the TOC concentration, from
>>> 3.4 to 2.4 mg/L-C, but this was short lived and the TOC
>
> concentration
>
>>> was soon back up to 3.5 mg/L-C." Berlin and biowheel were
>>> lowest
>>>
>>>Also, "in terms of coral health, the corals in the Jaubert system
>>>did not do well and this may be linked to the increasing TOC
>>>concentration."
>>>
>>>The summary is the kicker (from wet/dry, biowheel perspective)
>>>"To be successful, over the long term, one needs a large amount
>>>of live rock, a good lighting system, and an organic carbon
>>>removal system. Having a dedicated biological filter may be
>>>an added plus but it is certainly not a detriment to the goal of
>>>setting up and maintaining a healthy mini-reef aquarium."
>>>
>>>Tests performed by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec.
>>>
>>>That should start the wheels of discussion going! (I'm not
>>>proposing 1 system over another, just presented as info)
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Dave Johnson
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>