what is on when cycling a tank

[plaguebeast]

I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)

Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I am
ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the tank.
What I need to know is this:

Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?

Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?

What about my UV sterilizer ?

anyone ? (Marc ?)

Thanks in advance.

[Pszemol]

Maybe you would better get some book for beginners?
There you will find everything you need, step by step :-)

Or maybe search archive, www.google.com - cycling
is a very popular subject, repeated on this ng many times ;-)


"plaguebeast" > wrote in message .. .
> I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
> dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
>
> Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I am
> ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the tank.
> What I need to know is this:
>
> Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?
>
> Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
>
> What about my UV sterilizer ?
>
> anyone ? (Marc ?)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>

[richard reynolds]

do you already have LR in the tank???

if not you can easily leave off the lights, if so, it will do good to keep them on whats
best depends on what you want, with just LR a shorter photoperiod will reduce bad algae
growth, but also not support the good algae the lights wont effect the cycle itself. if
your protein skimmer is new run this now also, it will require a break in time, might as
well have it ready when your tank is, leave the UV off, now is the time you want all the
bugs you can get, if you really want to use a UV turn it on only when there are fish in
the tank, if its a reef leave it off, you really dont want it, if its a FO as soon as the
fish go in turn it on.

--
richard reynolds

[plaguebeast]

So, since I have LR and LS, I want to run the lights, but in a greatly
reduced cycle

I should also run the PS since it is new.

I should leave the UV off until the cycling is done and I put fish in the
tank.

This is a FOWLR, I have no intentions to put corals in it.

But I am curious, I have another tank, a 37g, and I would like to put corals
in it, or at least an anemone, should I not run the UV on that tank ? Not
even for 1 hour a day?

"richard reynolds" > wrote in message
. ..
> do you already have LR in the tank???
>
> if not you can easily leave off the lights, if so, it will do good to keep
them on whats
> best depends on what you want, with just LR a shorter photoperiod will
reduce bad algae
> growth, but also not support the good algae the lights wont effect the
cycle itself. if
> your protein skimmer is new run this now also, it will require a break in
time, might as
> well have it ready when your tank is, leave the UV off, now is the time
you want all the
> bugs you can get, if you really want to use a UV turn it on only when
there are fish in
> the tank, if its a reef leave it off, you really dont want it, if its a FO
as soon as the
> fish go in turn it on.
>
> --
> richard reynolds
>
>
>
>

[plaguebeast]

"richard reynolds" > wrote in message
. ..
> > So, since I have LR and LS, I want to run the lights, but in a greatly
> > reduced cycle
> >
> > I should also run the PS since it is new.
>
> exactly
>
> > I should leave the UV off until the cycling is done and I put fish in
the
> > tank.
> >
> > This is a FOWLR, I have no intentions to put corals in it.
> >
> > But I am curious, I have another tank, a 37g, and I would like to put
corals
> > in it, or at least an anemone, should I not run the UV on that tank ?
Not
> > even for 1 hour a day?
>
> you really shouldnt even run a UV on a FOWLR but definately not on a tank
with an anemone
> even for 1 minute a month
>
> UV's belong on FW, FO and even more so on preditor tanks with very very
few exceptions and
> you would know if you fit into one already.
>
>
> --
> richard reynolds
>
>


thanks very much for the information.

While I am still a bit confused about the UV I will do some research rather
then asking you a bunch of already asked questions.

[Pszemol]

Trying to by funny?

Get the book, dude... for the sake of the health of critters you are gonna put in your tank.
All basic questions will be answered there... No need to repost everything on this ng.

Please, treat this ng as your *additional* not the only source of knowledge if you do not
want to make a lot of avoidable mistakes as a beginner.

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message ...
> tampons are in on sale at Walgreens.
>
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Maybe you would better get some book for beginners?
> > There you will find everything you need, step by step :-)
> >
> > Or maybe search archive, www.google.com - cycling
> > is a very popular subject, repeated on this ng many times ;-)
> >
> >
> > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > > I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
> > > dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
> > >
> > > Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I
> am
> > > ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the
> tank.
> > > What I need to know is this:
> > >
> > > Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?
> > >
> > > Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
> > >
> > > What about my UV sterilizer ?
> > >
> > > anyone ? (Marc ?)
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>

[richard reynolds]

> thanks very much for the information.
>
> While I am still a bit confused about the UV I will do some research rather
> then asking you a bunch of already asked questions.

to get you started on your search DSB's and LR almost require some plankton in the water,
this can come from very many sources, including other life in/on the DSB/LR the UV will
kill these making them useless. along that line some things will breed in your tank
without intervention they require the release of different life stages into the
watercolumn you would be killing these also making reproduction for some things harder.
also the benifit in removing things like ich, it really doesnt work all that well at it,
it takes masive turn overs through a UV to kill ich and to get massive turnovers you would
need a major huge UV as contact time is a requirement otherwise UV cant do its job. and to
top off all of that it adds heat to the water.

in the end removal of parasites before introduction and thru preditation is the only
method that works reliably and with out harm to your tank UV's will kill needed organisms,
cost more money, and add heat to the water none of those things is desired in a reef, it
makes successful reef keeping much harder

--
richard reynolds

[Pszemol]

My response was VERY HELPFUL and if you would bother to check
www.google.com you would learn that your questions were asked
here many, many times already. For people sitting here for
months/years it is really boring when another newbie comes
and asks the same set of 10 questions over and over again...

Seeing another "hungry" man I wanted to give you fishing rod
instead to feed your immediate hunger with a fish given on
a plate, like Rich has done.

And your comments about how much of your time I am worth
or other, similarly brilliant, about tampons at Walgreens
just show how impolite you can be. Think a moment on this: how
much of my time are *YOU* worth? I have spent too much already.

Good luck with your reef... and good bye!

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message .. .
> I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those books are
> filled with different ideas.
>
> This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that seem to
> know more then I have read in my books.
>
> I was not asking to be spoon fed information that I could find in a book, I
> was looking for insight from people who have more experience then me. I
> like to get many different viewpoints.
>
> Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not helpful.
>
> Since I could not resist stooping to your level and explaining myself, I
> might as well add insult to injury....
>
> Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.
>
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Trying to by funny?
> >
> > Get the book, dude... for the sake of the health of critters you are gonna
> put in your tank.
> > All basic questions will be answered there... No need to repost everything
> on this ng.
> >
> > Please, treat this ng as your *additional* not the only source of
> knowledge if you do not
> > want to make a lot of avoidable mistakes as a beginner.
> >
> > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > tampons are in on sale at Walgreens.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Maybe you would better get some book for beginners?
> > > > There you will find everything you need, step by step :-)
> > > >
> > > > Or maybe search archive, www.google.com - cycling
> > > > is a very popular subject, repeated on this ng many times ;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > > > I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran
> a
> > > > > dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to
> 80F, I
> > > am
> > > > > ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the
> > > tank.
> > > > > What I need to know is this:
> > > > >
> > > > > Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ?
> 8hours/day ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
> > > > >
> > > > > What about my UV sterilizer ?
> > > > >
> > > > > anyone ? (Marc ?)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>

[Dave Johnson]

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those books are
> filled with different ideas.

LOL. So are the people here.

> This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that seem to
> know more then I have read in my books.

What books, specifically, have you read? (Not trying to demean
Marc or Richard at all, they have a lot of good experience, but rather
trying to get a reference point on *your* info learned so far)

> Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not helpful.

Actually, it was quite helpful. Cycling has been discussed
*many* times since I've been frequenting this group (over 2.5 years
of lurking and posting) and that was pointed out and also how to
get to those threads (google this group)

As I've gotten older, I've realized that it's not so much *what* I
know, but whether or not I can find the answer quickly to a question
that I'm searching for using various techniques I've learned over the
years (reference books, internet search, friends, etc) Googling for
past threads on this topic is one such method of finding out what you
don't know. Do your homework before expecting people to just
hand feed you their hard earned knowledge.

> Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.

And I'm actually thinking the same about responding to you. Prove
me wrong and show me how much research you've done so far.
For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
tank to make ammonia when you already have LR?

Cheers,
Dave Johnson

[plaguebeast]

> For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> tank to make ammonia when you already have LR


This link talks about how the LR and LS help to jump start the biological
filter created by the LR and the LS. It also says that you still have to
cycle the tank even if you have LR.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishwhisperer.ho mestead.com%2Farticles.html


My questions were about items I found in conflict with each other. One
book I have, maybe Sal****er Aquariums for Dummies, says only good things
about having a UV, other sources say it will prevent an effective biological
filter . Whether or not the UV is on during the cycling process was
something I was not sure of. Now it seems as though the UV should never be
on.

I also wanted to know if my PS was supposed to be on during the cycling
process. Again, different articles and people seem to disagree.

Now, tell me why you are so willing to expend energy to give me grief but
not willing to expend energy to just answer my question or send me a link to
a site that you feel might be helpful. I don't mean Google.

The fact that you are ignoring is that there are so many beliefs and
contradictions it becomes hard to know what is right and what is wrong. I
have been reading this group for a long time. I felt that Marc and Reynolds
were pretty knowledgeable. I wanted their opinions. Maybe I could have
looked up their previous posts on Google. I just did not think about it.
Maybe I am a lazy ****, maybe I just didn't have time, who knows.

From now on, instead of spending your time giving me ****, why don't you
just ignore me. Wouldn't that just be easier for everyone ?


http://www.tahoereefs.com/nitrogen_cycle.htm
"Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
gy.com...
> "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those books
are
> > filled with different ideas.
>
> LOL. So are the people here.
>
> > This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that seem
to
> > know more then I have read in my books.
>
> What books, specifically, have you read? (Not trying to demean
> Marc or Richard at all, they have a lot of good experience, but rather
> trying to get a reference point on *your* info learned so far)
>
> > Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not helpful.
>
> Actually, it was quite helpful. Cycling has been discussed
> *many* times since I've been frequenting this group (over 2.5 years
> of lurking and posting) and that was pointed out and also how to
> get to those threads (google this group)
>
> As I've gotten older, I've realized that it's not so much *what* I
> know, but whether or not I can find the answer quickly to a question
> that I'm searching for using various techniques I've learned over the
> years (reference books, internet search, friends, etc) Googling for
> past threads on this topic is one such method of finding out what you
> don't know. Do your homework before expecting people to just
> hand feed you their hard earned knowledge.
>
> > Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.
>
> And I'm actually thinking the same about responding to you. Prove
> me wrong and show me how much research you've done so far.
> For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> tank to make ammonia when you already have LR?
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Johnson
>
>

[Dave Johnson]

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
...

> It also says that you still have to cycle the tank even if you have LR.

Let's see how much research you've really done.

What, exactly, is "cycling" during this process? (hint : it's not the
water and I don't mean just the water flowing through the tank)

> I also wanted to know if my PS was supposed to be on during the cycling
> process. Again, different articles and people seem to disagree.

Here's the oracle's secret to SW tanks:

There is no "right" answer. You need to weigh what you read
against what you think makes sense. Some things just won't make
sense that you read. Some things you'll try but they won't work.
Everyone here experienced the same learning curve/quest for
knowledge. Even books that I've read contradict each other in
various ways. Check out past threads here, or on ReefCentral.com,
try things and you'll see what works best for you.

> Now, tell me why you are so willing to expend energy to give me grief but
> not willing to expend energy to just answer my question or send me a link
to
> a site that you feel might be helpful. I don't mean Google.

If you're not willing to google for previous threads then you're
missing the literally decades of knowledge, experience and
discussion that went on here from people that know a heck of
a lot about SW & reef aquariums. Your loss, not mine.

> The fact that you are ignoring is that there are so many beliefs and
> contradictions it becomes hard to know what is right and what is wrong.

On the contrary, here's what you wrote: "Those books are filled with
different ideas."

to which I responded :
"LOL. So are the people here."

And so is every LFS you'll visit. You also gotta sort out who's got
an ulterior motive as well (the LFS that sells you crap you don't need,
ie UV, or is junk is one)

> I have been reading this group for a long time.

And you've never stumbled onto a newbie thread yet? It seems
that lights on/off, PS on/off when cycling is a weekly question here.

In short, IMO - if you're cycling w/ LR = lights and PS on.

Why would you not have them on? Ask youself what the
purpose of the lights and PS are - does that at all relate to
the cycling? No, but to not have lights on may cause excess
die-off on LR - prolonging cycling and PS is to remove
DOC, it does not remove the bacteria that are essential in
cycling.

> I felt that Marc and Reynolds were pretty knowledgeable.

No argument there. But attacking someone who pointed you in a
very valid direction isn't going to get you favorable responses.

> I wanted their opinions. Maybe I could have
> looked up their previous posts on Google. I just did not think about it.
> Maybe I am a lazy ****, maybe I just didn't have time, who knows.

If you don't have the time to do the research, even if it's as easy
as tying in "cycling" on a google search page, how on earth do
you expect to have successful tanks?

> From now on, instead of spending your time giving me ****, why don't you
> just ignore me. Wouldn't that just be easier for everyone ?

I wasn't giving you ****. In fact, I wanted to know what you've
read so far to perhaps give another opinion based on my experience
vs. what you've been reading.

Cheers,
Dave Johnson
>
>
> http://www.tahoereefs.com/nitrogen_cycle.htm
> "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those books
> are
> > > filled with different ideas.
> >
> > LOL. So are the people here.
> >
> > > This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that seem
> to
> > > know more then I have read in my books.
> >
> > What books, specifically, have you read? (Not trying to demean
> > Marc or Richard at all, they have a lot of good experience, but rather
> > trying to get a reference point on *your* info learned so far)
> >
> > > Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not
helpful.
> >
> > Actually, it was quite helpful. Cycling has been discussed
> > *many* times since I've been frequenting this group (over 2.5 years
> > of lurking and posting) and that was pointed out and also how to
> > get to those threads (google this group)
> >
> > As I've gotten older, I've realized that it's not so much *what* I
> > know, but whether or not I can find the answer quickly to a question
> > that I'm searching for using various techniques I've learned over the
> > years (reference books, internet search, friends, etc) Googling for
> > past threads on this topic is one such method of finding out what you
> > don't know. Do your homework before expecting people to just
> > hand feed you their hard earned knowledge.
> >
> > > Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.
> >
> > And I'm actually thinking the same about responding to you. Prove
> > me wrong and show me how much research you've done so far.
> > For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> > using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> > tank to make ammonia when you already have LR?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Johnson
> >
> >
>
>
>

[plaguebeast]

I don't know why I am doing this, maybe I am just tired but see below for
the answers to your question.

Honestly, I am not sure why you want me to explain cycling a tank, I would
have thought you already knew that stuff.


"Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
igy.com...
> "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > It also says that you still have to cycle the tank even if you have LR.
>
> Let's see how much research you've really done.
>
> What, exactly, is "cycling" during this process? (hint : it's not the
> water and I don't mean just the water flowing through the tank)
>
cycling a tank is the process of propagating the necessary bacteria to
create an effect biological filter. To the best of my knowledge, you
introduce either ammonia or something that will rot causing ammonia to be
produced. When that happens bacteria grows that metabolizes the ammonia
into nitrite. When the nitrite levels increase bacteria grows that
metabolizes the nitrite into nitrate. At this point I get a little fuzzy,
some books and articles talk about bacteria that metabolizes the nitrate
into nitrogen gas that leaves the tank in gas exchanges brought about my
surface disruptions but other books and articles, and some people, say that
you have to remove it yourself with either a dinitrator or by doing water
changes.


> > I also wanted to know if my PS was supposed to be on during the cycling
> > process. Again, different articles and people seem to disagree.
>
> Here's the oracle's secret to SW tanks:
>
<snip>
> If you're not willing to google for previous threads then you're
> missing the literally decades of knowledge, experience and
> discussion that went on here from people that know a heck of
> a lot about SW & reef aquariums. Your loss, not mine.

acutally I have read quite a bit of previous posts. I just couldn't come to
any good conclusions based on what I was looking for. That's why I asked
the specific questions in my original post.

>
> > The fact that you are ignoring is that there are so many beliefs and
> > contradictions it becomes hard to know what is right and what is wrong.
>
> On the contrary, here's what you wrote: "Those books are filled with
> different ideas."
>

sounds pretty similary to me, I am not sure you are disagreeing with me

> to which I responded :
> "LOL. So are the people here."
>
> And so is every LFS you'll visit. You also gotta sort out who's got
> an ulterior motive as well (the LFS that sells you crap you don't need,
> ie UV, or is junk is one)
>
> > I have been reading this group for a long time.
>
> And you've never stumbled onto a newbie thread yet? It seems
> that lights on/off, PS on/off when cycling is a weekly question here.
>

I don't think I have seen one but I might have missed it.


> In short, IMO - if you're cycling w/ LR = lights and PS on.
>
> Why would you not have them on? Ask youself what the
> purpose of the lights and PS are - does that at all relate to
> the cycling? No, but to not have lights on may cause excess
> die-off on LR - prolonging cycling and PS is to remove
> DOC, it does not remove the bacteria that are essential in
> cycling.

I did not know the PS would not remove bacteria.

>
> > I felt that Marc and Reynolds were pretty knowledgeable.
>
> No argument there. But attacking someone who pointed you in a
> very valid direction isn't going to get you favorable responses.
>

his statements were purely sarcastic. The fact that he pointed me to google
and nowhere else indicates that.


> If you don't have the time to do the research, even if it's as easy
> as tying in "cycling" on a google search page, how on earth do
> you expect to have successful tanks?

> > From now on, instead of spending your time giving me ****, why don't you
> > just ignore me. Wouldn't that just be easier for everyone ?
>
> I wasn't giving you ****. In fact, I wanted to know what you've
> read so far to perhaps give another opinion based on my experience
> vs. what you've been reading.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Johnson
> >
> >
> > http://www.tahoereefs.com/nitrogen_cycle.htm
> > "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
> > gy.com...
> > > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > > .. .
> > > > I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those
books
> > are
> > > > filled with different ideas.
> > >
> > > LOL. So are the people here.
> > >
> > > > This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that
seem
> > to
> > > > know more then I have read in my books.
> > >
> > > What books, specifically, have you read? (Not trying to demean
> > > Marc or Richard at all, they have a lot of good experience, but rather
> > > trying to get a reference point on *your* info learned so far)
> > >
> > > > Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not
> helpful.
> > >
> > > Actually, it was quite helpful. Cycling has been discussed
> > > *many* times since I've been frequenting this group (over 2.5 years
> > > of lurking and posting) and that was pointed out and also how to
> > > get to those threads (google this group)
> > >
> > > As I've gotten older, I've realized that it's not so much *what* I
> > > know, but whether or not I can find the answer quickly to a question
> > > that I'm searching for using various techniques I've learned over the
> > > years (reference books, internet search, friends, etc) Googling for
> > > past threads on this topic is one such method of finding out what you
> > > don't know. Do your homework before expecting people to just
> > > hand feed you their hard earned knowledge.
> > >
> > > > Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.
> > >
> > > And I'm actually thinking the same about responding to you. Prove
> > > me wrong and show me how much research you've done so far.
> > > For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> > > using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> > > tank to make ammonia when you already have LR?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Dave Johnson
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[richard reynolds]

> I don't know why I am doing this, maybe I am just tired but see below for
> the answers to your question.
>
> Honestly, I am not sure why you want me to explain cycling a tank, I would
> have thought you already knew that stuff.

its cool, kinda lets some of us know how much you already know :)

> cycling a tank is the process of propagating the necessary bacteria to
> create an effect biological filter. To the best of my knowledge, you
> introduce either ammonia or something that will rot causing ammonia to be
> produced. When that happens bacteria grows that metabolizes the ammonia
> into nitrite. When the nitrite levels increase bacteria grows that
> metabolizes the nitrite into nitrate. At this point I get a little fuzzy,
> some books and articles talk about bacteria that metabolizes the nitrate
> into nitrogen gas that leaves the tank in gas exchanges brought about my
> surface disruptions but other books and articles, and some people, say that
> you have to remove it yourself with either a dinitrator or by doing water
> changes.

good that last part about nitrate the bacteria that processes nitrate is anerobic and
requires an anoxic area to do its job, these areas exist down in sand beds and deep in the
pieces of rock the surface disruptions and nitrogen probibly not, most of the time
nitrogen escapes water easily on its own, co2 and oxygen exchange are important to both
live stock and the bacteria, the way it works is the process that creates nitrates
consumes oxygen and that helps create the anoxic zone where the nitrate is further
processed this concept almost doesnt work in FO and FW tanks

> sounds pretty similary to me, I am not sure you are disagreeing with me

for the record I am not :) and dont think exactly that dave and pszemol are

> > And you've never stumbled onto a newbie thread yet? It seems
> > that lights on/off, PS on/off when cycling is a weekly question here.
> I don't think I have seen one but I might have missed it.

while it might seem like a weekly question id say its more of a montly question, and the
last few attempts at it have been redirection to a different page, I think marc has one,
so do a few others.

> I did not know the PS would not remove bacteria.

another area to debate, while it wont remove bacteria a new skimmer wont remove anything
it needs some break in time of its own, it will remove things that will break down into
ammonia which can help the cycle along but its a short debate as ammonia is easy to come
by :)


--
richard reynolds

[Stephen]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Some people simply believe that it is important, and time well spent, to
focus on the latter.


--
Stephen
--------------------------------------------------
In-Dash MP3
http://www.highwaymp3.com/
--------------------------------------------------



"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
...
> > For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> > using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> > tank to make ammonia when you already have LR
>
>
> This link talks about how the LR and LS help to jump start the biological
> filter created by the LR and the LS. It also says that you still have to
> cycle the tank even if you have LR.
>
http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishwhisperer.ho mestead.com%2Farticles.html
>
>
> My questions were about items I found in conflict with each other. One
> book I have, maybe Sal****er Aquariums for Dummies, says only good things
> about having a UV, other sources say it will prevent an effective
biological
> filter . Whether or not the UV is on during the cycling process was
> something I was not sure of. Now it seems as though the UV should never
be
> on.
>
> I also wanted to know if my PS was supposed to be on during the cycling
> process. Again, different articles and people seem to disagree.
>
> Now, tell me why you are so willing to expend energy to give me grief but
> not willing to expend energy to just answer my question or send me a link
to
> a site that you feel might be helpful. I don't mean Google.
>
> The fact that you are ignoring is that there are so many beliefs and
> contradictions it becomes hard to know what is right and what is wrong. I
> have been reading this group for a long time. I felt that Marc and
Reynolds
> were pretty knowledgeable. I wanted their opinions. Maybe I could have
> looked up their previous posts on Google. I just did not think about it.
> Maybe I am a lazy ****, maybe I just didn't have time, who knows.
>
> From now on, instead of spending your time giving me ****, why don't you
> just ignore me. Wouldn't that just be easier for everyone ?
>
>
> http://www.tahoereefs.com/nitrogen_cycle.htm
> "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > > I have probably read more books on the subject then you. Those books
> are
> > > filled with different ideas.
> >
> > LOL. So are the people here.
> >
> > > This group has at least two people in it, Reynolds and Marc, that seem
> to
> > > know more then I have read in my books.
> >
> > What books, specifically, have you read? (Not trying to demean
> > Marc or Richard at all, they have a lot of good experience, but rather
> > trying to get a reference point on *your* info learned so far)
> >
> > > Your message was nasty and demeaning, and to say the least, not
helpful.
> >
> > Actually, it was quite helpful. Cycling has been discussed
> > *many* times since I've been frequenting this group (over 2.5 years
> > of lurking and posting) and that was pointed out and also how to
> > get to those threads (google this group)
> >
> > As I've gotten older, I've realized that it's not so much *what* I
> > know, but whether or not I can find the answer quickly to a question
> > that I'm searching for using various techniques I've learned over the
> > years (reference books, internet search, friends, etc) Googling for
> > past threads on this topic is one such method of finding out what you
> > don't know. Do your homework before expecting people to just
> > hand feed you their hard earned knowledge.
> >
> > > Ohh, never mind, you aren't worth my time.
> >
> > And I'm actually thinking the same about responding to you. Prove
> > me wrong and show me how much research you've done so far.
> > For example, what are the conflicting sources you've read about
> > using a UV on a reef tank? Why would you drop a shrimp in the
> > tank to make ammonia when you already have LR?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Johnson
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Pszemol]

Unfortunately, our new fellow refuses to fish using google fishing rod...
Let "The Force" be with him then ;-)


"Stephen" > wrote in message ...
> Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
> Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.
>
> Some people simply believe that it is important, and time well spent, to
> focus on the latter.
>
>
> --
> Stephen
> --------------------------------------------------
> In-Dash MP3
> http://www.highwaymp3.com/
> --------------------------------------------------

[plaguebeast]

I don't, and didn't refuse to fish. I just could not come to a good
conclusion based on what I found, so I asked.


"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> Unfortunately, our new fellow refuses to fish using google fishing rod...
> Let "The Force" be with him then ;-)
>
>
> "Stephen" > wrote in message
...
> > Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
> > Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.
> >
> > Some people simply believe that it is important, and time well spent, to
> > focus on the latter.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Stephen
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > In-Dash MP3
> > http://www.highwaymp3.com/
> > --------------------------------------------------
>

[Marc Levenson]

Oh MY GOD!!!!

You guys are nuts. Plaguebeast, I'm sorry I had to work the past 48 hours!!!

Congrats on your new safe circuit. Now keep in mind, if that breaker ever
(EVER!) trips, your tank will come to a total stop, and quickly grow stagnant.
If you still have another non-GCFI circuit available nearby, plug in one
powerhead or return pump or something to keep circulation going.

When I set up a tank, I set it up the way it will run. Everything turned on,
lighting for the full duration. Your protein skimmer will provide oxygenation
24 hours a day, so it should be on as well.

I don't use an UV, and my opinion is that it removes bacteria so I don't believe
I'll ever use one.

Marc


plaguebeast wrote:

> I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
> dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
>
> Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I am
> ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the tank.
> What I need to know is this:
>
> Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?
>
> Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
>
> What about my UV sterilizer ?
>
> anyone ? (Marc ?)
>
> Thanks in advance.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[plaguebeast]

Thanks so much, Reynolds was pretty helpful also.

Sadly, while the circuit is safe, my chiller is not. I fear the LR is now
probably devoid of any life. I have had so many false starts on that tank I
feel I may never get fish into it. I had it all set up when I thought
everything was ok but things are not ok. As it turns out, the problem was
not only with the circuit. When I put the chiller online I went into the
house for about an hour. When I came back to the garage to see how the temp
had dropped, I saw a puddle of water coming from the switch on the side of
the chiller. Opening the top of the chiller I saw that one of the inlets
was leaking where the teflon tape was badly applied. I removed the inlet
from the water tank in the chiller and reapplied teflon tape and silicon
sealer. I THOUGHT I had dried up all the water while it was still wet but
after running for a while without leaking I was still getting shocked. When
I opened the top of the chiller again I saw where the water had pooled,
there was salt everywhere. I cleaned up the salt and allowed the chiller to
dry but there is a problem somewhere else within the chiller since I am
still getting shocked when it is powered on. Actually, I think it would be
good for everyone to know, the Via Aqua CC25 chiller has at least two major
design errors. One is that one of the the inlets is located in such a place
that if it leaks, water will spill into/onto the power switch. The other
problem is that when you connect a hose you have to turn a ring
counter-clockwise. If you turn it too far (you don't know what is too far
since the inlet is partially covered by the case) you end up loosening the
inlet to the water tank in the chiller causing it to leak. You don't know
that it is leaking until you do what I did. Go to the tank without shoes on
and stick your hand in the water.

If it was not 90F in the garage I would not have needed the chiller.

Thankfully my first tank in my living room is doing quite well and that
balances the failure in the tank in the garage. It just makes me uneasy to
only have one life support system for my fish. I am a stickler for
redundant systems, especially when life of some sort is concerned. I will
sleep alot better when the tank in the garage is operational and reliable.

PB

"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Oh MY GOD!!!!
>
> You guys are nuts. Plaguebeast, I'm sorry I had to work the past 48
hours!!!
>
> Congrats on your new safe circuit. Now keep in mind, if that breaker ever
> (EVER!) trips, your tank will come to a total stop, and quickly grow
stagnant.
> If you still have another non-GCFI circuit available nearby, plug in one
> powerhead or return pump or something to keep circulation going.
>
> When I set up a tank, I set it up the way it will run. Everything turned
on,
> lighting for the full duration. Your protein skimmer will provide
oxygenation
> 24 hours a day, so it should be on as well.
>
> I don't use an UV, and my opinion is that it removes bacteria so I don't
believe
> I'll ever use one.
>
> Marc
>
>
> plaguebeast wrote:
>
> > I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
> > dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
> >
> > Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I
am
> > ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the
tank.
> > What I need to know is this:
> >
> > Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?
> >
> > Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
> >
> > What about my UV sterilizer ?
> >
> > anyone ? (Marc ?)
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

When applying teflon tape, you have to wrap it in the direction with the
threads. I know what looks right by doing it, but describing it in a post is
harder. I think it is applied clockwise. That way as you screw it in, it
doesn't unwrapped off the threads, and gives you a good seal. It should be
wrapped at least 3 times. I wrap 5 times myself.

Sorry to hear about the flooding, but I hope your chiller doesn't fry. Do you
have a warranty for it still?

Marc


plaguebeast wrote:

> Thanks so much, Reynolds was pretty helpful also.
>
> Sadly, while the circuit is safe, my chiller is not. I fear the LR is now
> probably devoid of any life. I have had so many false starts on that tank I
> feel I may never get fish into it. I had it all set up when I thought
> everything was ok but things are not ok. As it turns out, the problem was
> not only with the circuit. When I put the chiller online I went into the
> house for about an hour. When I came back to the garage to see how the temp
> had dropped, I saw a puddle of water coming from the switch on the side of
> the chiller. Opening the top of the chiller I saw that one of the inlets
> was leaking where the teflon tape was badly applied. I removed the inlet
> from the water tank in the chiller and reapplied teflon tape and silicon
> sealer. I THOUGHT I had dried up all the water while it was still wet but
> after running for a while without leaking I was still getting shocked. When
> I opened the top of the chiller again I saw where the water had pooled,
> there was salt everywhere. I cleaned up the salt and allowed the chiller to
> dry but there is a problem somewhere else within the chiller since I am
> still getting shocked when it is powered on. Actually, I think it would be
> good for everyone to know, the Via Aqua CC25 chiller has at least two major
> design errors. One is that one of the the inlets is located in such a place
> that if it leaks, water will spill into/onto the power switch. The other
> problem is that when you connect a hose you have to turn a ring
> counter-clockwise. If you turn it too far (you don't know what is too far
> since the inlet is partially covered by the case) you end up loosening the
> inlet to the water tank in the chiller causing it to leak. You don't know
> that it is leaking until you do what I did. Go to the tank without shoes on
> and stick your hand in the water.
>
> If it was not 90F in the garage I would not have needed the chiller.
>
> Thankfully my first tank in my living room is doing quite well and that
> balances the failure in the tank in the garage. It just makes me uneasy to
> only have one life support system for my fish. I am a stickler for
> redundant systems, especially when life of some sort is concerned. I will
> sleep alot better when the tank in the garage is operational and reliable.
>
> PB
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Oh MY GOD!!!!
> >
> > You guys are nuts. Plaguebeast, I'm sorry I had to work the past 48
> hours!!!
> >
> > Congrats on your new safe circuit. Now keep in mind, if that breaker ever
> > (EVER!) trips, your tank will come to a total stop, and quickly grow
> stagnant.
> > If you still have another non-GCFI circuit available nearby, plug in one
> > powerhead or return pump or something to keep circulation going.
> >
> > When I set up a tank, I set it up the way it will run. Everything turned
> on,
> > lighting for the full duration. Your protein skimmer will provide
> oxygenation
> > 24 hours a day, so it should be on as well.
> >
> > I don't use an UV, and my opinion is that it removes bacteria so I don't
> believe
> > I'll ever use one.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > plaguebeast wrote:
> >
> > > I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran a
> > > dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
> > >
> > > Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to 80F, I
> am
> > > ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the
> tank.
> > > What I need to know is this:
> > >
> > > Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ? 8hours/day ?
> > >
> > > Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
> > >
> > > What about my UV sterilizer ?
> > >
> > > anyone ? (Marc ?)
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[plaguebeast]

I just bought it, a week ago.

I think it is toast being that it is shorting somewhere and I can't figure
out where. Strange, it is not tripping the fuse.
"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> When applying teflon tape, you have to wrap it in the direction with the
> threads. I know what looks right by doing it, but describing it in a post
is
> harder. I think it is applied clockwise. That way as you screw it in, it
> doesn't unwrapped off the threads, and gives you a good seal. It should
be
> wrapped at least 3 times. I wrap 5 times myself.
>
> Sorry to hear about the flooding, but I hope your chiller doesn't fry. Do
you
> have a warranty for it still?
>
> Marc
>
>
> plaguebeast wrote:
>
> > Thanks so much, Reynolds was pretty helpful also.
> >
> > Sadly, while the circuit is safe, my chiller is not. I fear the LR is
now
> > probably devoid of any life. I have had so many false starts on that
tank I
> > feel I may never get fish into it. I had it all set up when I thought
> > everything was ok but things are not ok. As it turns out, the problem
was
> > not only with the circuit. When I put the chiller online I went into
the
> > house for about an hour. When I came back to the garage to see how the
temp
> > had dropped, I saw a puddle of water coming from the switch on the side
of
> > the chiller. Opening the top of the chiller I saw that one of the
inlets
> > was leaking where the teflon tape was badly applied. I removed the
inlet
> > from the water tank in the chiller and reapplied teflon tape and silicon
> > sealer. I THOUGHT I had dried up all the water while it was still wet
but
> > after running for a while without leaking I was still getting shocked.
When
> > I opened the top of the chiller again I saw where the water had pooled,
> > there was salt everywhere. I cleaned up the salt and allowed the
chiller to
> > dry but there is a problem somewhere else within the chiller since I am
> > still getting shocked when it is powered on. Actually, I think it would
be
> > good for everyone to know, the Via Aqua CC25 chiller has at least two
major
> > design errors. One is that one of the the inlets is located in such a
place
> > that if it leaks, water will spill into/onto the power switch. The
other
> > problem is that when you connect a hose you have to turn a ring
> > counter-clockwise. If you turn it too far (you don't know what is too
far
> > since the inlet is partially covered by the case) you end up loosening
the
> > inlet to the water tank in the chiller causing it to leak. You don't
know
> > that it is leaking until you do what I did. Go to the tank without
shoes on
> > and stick your hand in the water.
> >
> > If it was not 90F in the garage I would not have needed the chiller.
> >
> > Thankfully my first tank in my living room is doing quite well and that
> > balances the failure in the tank in the garage. It just makes me uneasy
to
> > only have one life support system for my fish. I am a stickler for
> > redundant systems, especially when life of some sort is concerned. I
will
> > sleep alot better when the tank in the garage is operational and
reliable.
> >
> > PB
> >
> > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Oh MY GOD!!!!
> > >
> > > You guys are nuts. Plaguebeast, I'm sorry I had to work the past 48
> > hours!!!
> > >
> > > Congrats on your new safe circuit. Now keep in mind, if that breaker
ever
> > > (EVER!) trips, your tank will come to a total stop, and quickly grow
> > stagnant.
> > > If you still have another non-GCFI circuit available nearby, plug in
one
> > > powerhead or return pump or something to keep circulation going.
> > >
> > > When I set up a tank, I set it up the way it will run. Everything
turned
> > on,
> > > lighting for the full duration. Your protein skimmer will provide
> > oxygenation
> > > 24 hours a day, so it should be on as well.
> > >
> > > I don't use an UV, and my opinion is that it removes bacteria so I
don't
> > believe
> > > I'll ever use one.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > > plaguebeast wrote:
> > >
> > > > I finally got my new 29g to not shock me anymore (an electrician ran
a
> > > > dedicated 20A circuit with a GFCI for me)
> > > >
> > > > Now, with the chiller pulling the water down from a steamy 90F to
80F, I
> > am
> > > > ready to drop a shrimp into the water to make ammonia and cycle the
> > tank.
> > > > What I need to know is this:
> > > >
> > > > Do I run my lights during the cycling ? If so, how much ?
8hours/day ?
> > > >
> > > > Do I run my PS during the cycling period ?
> > > >
> > > > What about my UV sterilizer ?
> > > >
> > > > anyone ? (Marc ?)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Dave Johnson]

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
...
> I don't know why I am doing this, maybe I am just tired but see below for
> the answers to your question.
>
> Honestly, I am not sure why you want me to explain cycling a tank, I would
> have thought you already knew that stuff.

I do, I was wondering if you did as a baseline of where you
are in researching this hobby.

> "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
> igy.com...
> > What, exactly, is "cycling" during this process? (hint : it's not the
> > water and I don't mean just the water flowing through the tank)
> >
> cycling a tank is the process of propagating the necessary bacteria to
> create an effect biological filter. To the best of my knowledge, you
> introduce either ammonia or something that will rot causing ammonia to be
> produced. When that happens bacteria grows that metabolizes the ammonia
> into nitrite. When the nitrite levels increase bacteria grows that
> metabolizes the nitrite into nitrate.

Wow, that's way more than I expected! I was expecting an
answer such as "the biological filter". (the "cycles" of
bacteria growth that establish a bio-filter)

> At this point I get a little fuzzy,
> some books and articles talk about bacteria that metabolizes the nitrate
> into nitrogen gas that leaves the tank in gas exchanges brought about my
> surface disruptions but other books and articles, and some people, say
that
> you have to remove it yourself with either a dinitrator or by doing water
> changes.

Nothing wrong with being fuzzy at that question.

The 2 diverse opinions are actually both correct, one for a
tank that is performing denitrification via means such as deep
sand bed and/or live rock (gas exchange) The other is also
correct, dillution, for systems that do not have a denitrator
as part of their biological filter.

> acutally I have read quite a bit of previous posts. I just couldn't come
to
> any good conclusions based on what I was looking for. That's why I asked
> the specific questions in my original post.

Sorry for jumping the gun!

> sounds pretty similary to me, I am not sure you are disagreeing with me

I wasn't.

> I did not know the PS would not remove bacteria.

Well, it will to some extent, but the bacteria that you are
trying to cultivate live in/on the LR and DSB, the majority
are not in the water column (or top of water if your skimmer
uses an overflow box inlet)

> > No argument there. But attacking someone who pointed you in a
> > very valid direction isn't going to get you favorable responses.
>
> his statements were purely sarcastic. The fact that he pointed me to
google
> and nowhere else indicates that.

Sorry, I didn't read them that way. IMO, Pszemol speaks
English as a second language, thus sometimes perhaps it
seems more abrupt. He's posting from a .pl site, not sure
if that's Poland or Phillipines (my guess) My wife is from
Thailand, where I've visited and speak with people from
there all the time, perhaps I'm just used to the differences
in language usage & structure and don't see them anymore.

Good luck with the cycling. If you've not read it yet I
highly recommend The Reef Aquarium Vol 1 by Delbeek &
Sprung. This past weekend I was at Border's and flipped
through a book called Natural Reef Aquariums (I think) by
Tullock that seemed quite good at first glance. Anyone have
it or read it yet?

Cheers,
Dave Johnson

[Pszemol]

"Dave Johnson" > wrote in message ...
> Sorry, I didn't read them that way. IMO, Pszemol speaks
> English as a second language, thus sometimes perhaps it
> seems more abrupt. He's posting from a .pl site, not sure
> if that's Poland or Phillipines (my guess) My wife is from
> Thailand, where I've visited and speak with people from
> there all the time, perhaps I'm just used to the differences
> in language usage & structure and don't see them anymore.

right... :-)

I am originaly from Poland, live in Chicago suburb.
You should not read between the lines in my text :-)))
There is nothing there... :-))) If my English is rough
and crude do not treat it being rude or somthing
like that :-) Just the dictionary in my head is not such
rich like yours are. And no reason for giving a suggestions like
"tampons from Walgreens" :-) I do not use them, I am male :-)

Cheers,
Pszemol.

[plaguebeast]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> > Sorry, I didn't read them that way. IMO, Pszemol speaks
> > English as a second language, thus sometimes perhaps it
> > seems more abrupt. He's posting from a .pl site, not sure
> > if that's Poland or Phillipines (my guess) My wife is from
> > Thailand, where I've visited and speak with people from
> > there all the time, perhaps I'm just used to the differences
> > in language usage & structure and don't see them anymore.
>
> right... :-)
>
> I am originaly from Poland, live in Chicago suburb.
> You should not read between the lines in my text :-)))
> There is nothing there... :-))) If my English is rough
> and crude do not treat it being rude or somthing
> like that :-) Just the dictionary in my head is not such
> rich like yours are. And no reason for giving a suggestions like
> "tampons from Walgreens" :-) I do not use them, I am male :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Pszemol.

Chill dude, the tampon thing was a joke. Sorry you took it literally.

[rich]

Ahhh my daily chuckle. :)


"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Pszemol" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Dave Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Sorry, I didn't read them that way. IMO, Pszemol speaks
> > > English as a second language, thus sometimes perhaps it
> > > seems more abrupt. He's posting from a .pl site, not sure
> > > if that's Poland or Phillipines (my guess) My wife is from
> > > Thailand, where I've visited and speak with people from
> > > there all the time, perhaps I'm just used to the differences
> > > in language usage & structure and don't see them anymore.
> >
> > right... :-)
> >
> > I am originaly from Poland, live in Chicago suburb.
> > You should not read between the lines in my text :-)))
> > There is nothing there... :-))) If my English is rough
> > and crude do not treat it being rude or somthing
> > like that :-) Just the dictionary in my head is not such
> > rich like yours are. And no reason for giving a suggestions like
> > "tampons from Walgreens" :-) I do not use them, I am male :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Pszemol.
>
> Chill dude, the tampon thing was a joke. Sorry you took it literally.
>
>
>

[Pszemol]

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message .. .
> > And no reason for giving a suggestions like
> > "tampons from Walgreens" :-) I do not use them, I am male :-)
>
> Chill dude, the tampon thing was a joke. Sorry you took it literally.

Maybe when you stay here longer you will learn what ':-)' means.

:-)

[plaguebeast]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
.. .
> > > And no reason for giving a suggestions like
> > > "tampons from Walgreens" :-) I do not use them, I am male :-)
> >
> > Chill dude, the tampon thing was a joke. Sorry you took it literally.
>
> Maybe when you stay here longer you will learn what ':-)' means.
>
> :-)

;-)