Cheap Fish Keeping?

[Newbie Bill]

Hi all - my first post here. I just started aquariums this summer. I think
I know most of the basics but thats about it. I have no tank sense - to
know what looks, sounds, smells.... right. I already have a 55 gal and 29
gal which I am doing pretty much the "right" way. I still want to have some
more fish, but my pocket book and excess space is rapidly dwindling. I
would love some practical suggestions on cutting costs on 10-20 gal setups.
I am getting ready to put a few fish in my 10 gal hospital tank. I have a
small Whisper? or similar 100 gph, some gravel, 3 lousy 100 watt heaters -
todos.

What can I use for a 'hood' and/or lighting? Grow light for plants? Rule
of thumb when air stones are needed?? Are there community fish which are
hardy enough to do without a heater-no GF. I think these heaters are too
big and way too inaccurate/inconsistent to even try in this 10 gal tank.
Any ideas on 'homemade' or after market filter pads. I am also a ponder.
Ponders are constantly coming up with ideas to do things cheaper and often
better. I know the better is going to be hard to manage, but I am willing
to swap a little time and aesthetics for higher costs, if possible. Bottom
line is I am trying to find ways to keep that cute little $2.99 fishy from
actually being a $29.99 fish.
Thanxx in advance for your suggestions!
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

[Eric Schreiber]

Newbie Bill wrote:

> I would love some practical suggestions on cutting costs on
> 10-20 gal setups.

I've currently got a 30 gallon tank running that I picked up at a
garage sale for 15 bucks. I've got an expensive filter on it (Magnum
HOT with bio-wheel) but it was something that had been sitting unused
in my basement for a year or so.

The tank decorations are all leftover junk from previous tanks.
Mismatched rocks, polished river stones, a piece of driftwood, a patch
of plain gravel.

There is no lighting - it's next to a pole lamp, that's all it gets.
The hood, well, it's a piece of beat up Plexiglass I had sitting in the
garage.

Though I have several heaters available, none are in the tank. The
water temperature hovers at right about 68 degrees. For many tropical
fish, this would be too low. However, that's the temperature the water
I cought these fish in was. Yup, the fish didn't cost a cent. I caught
a dozen juvenile bluegills, all about 1" in size, in a drainage pond in
my subdivision.

For your case, as I see it the tank is the cheap part, and the lighting
is the expensive part. You can pick up a ten gallon tank for under ten
bucks. Perfectly good decorations can be had for free if you don't mind
boiling some rocks and driftwood. A bio-wheel based external filter can
be bought for something like 15 bucks. Filter pads can be rinsed and
re-used. The charcoal eventually stops being good, but with regular
water changes you really don't need charcoal. You can skip lighting
entirely. And if you've got a butterfly net you can catch minnows
(check local laws about this first) in a nearby stream.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Dick]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:51:37 GMT, "Newbie Bill"
> wrote:

>Hi all - my first post here. I just started aquariums this summer. I think
>I know most of the basics but thats about it. I have no tank sense - to
>know what looks, sounds, smells.... right. I already have a 55 gal and 29
>gal which I am doing pretty much the "right" way. I still want to have some
>more fish, but my pocket book and excess space is rapidly dwindling. I
>would love some practical suggestions on cutting costs on 10-20 gal setups.
>I am getting ready to put a few fish in my 10 gal hospital tank. I have a
>small Whisper? or similar 100 gph, some gravel, 3 lousy 100 watt heaters -
>todos.
>
>What can I use for a 'hood' and/or lighting? Grow light for plants? Rule
>of thumb when air stones are needed?? Are there community fish which are
>hardy enough to do without a heater-no GF. I think these heaters are too
>big and way too inaccurate/inconsistent to even try in this 10 gal tank.
>Any ideas on 'homemade' or after market filter pads. I am also a ponder.
>Ponders are constantly coming up with ideas to do things cheaper and often
>better. I know the better is going to be hard to manage, but I am willing
>to swap a little time and aesthetics for higher costs, if possible. Bottom
>line is I am trying to find ways to keep that cute little $2.99 fishy from
>actually being a $29.99 fish.
>Thanxx in advance for your suggestions!
>Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
>

Hi Bill, I live in West Texas.

I ran out of excess space with tank number 5. During the summer a
friend died and his wife gave me a 29 gallon tank and equipment. I
tried hard to find a place for it. I did manage to create enough
space, but it looked out of place and made access to another tank
awkward, so it is now setting outside in a storage room.

Some comments about your hospital tank. I was told not to use gravel
since the point is to have a clean tank. The gravel can hold bacteria
and medications. I removed the sand, but I wanted plants. I found
several species of plants do fine. I just use lead strips to hold
them right side up. I didn't have an air stone in the tank for
months, but added one when I noticed the fish at the top. The
medication instructions pointed out that this might happen due to less
oxygen in the treated water. I have left the stone as I already have
it running and I like the column of bubbles.

I have 3 ten gallon tanks. The hoods are pretty much the same. One
had a hood made for an incandescent lamp. Someone must have put too
large a bulb in and burned a hole in the top. WWW/ Fostersmith.com had
a universal hood for 10 gallon tanks that fits pretty well. A good
hood is pretty important for a well managed tank. I would try to
budget enough, then again you may be able to find a new tank for much
the same price that already has a hood. Shipping for low cost items
may end up doubling the price.

I don't know what you mean about the heaters being "too big" or
"lousy." Heaters either keep a temperature reliably or they don't.
One hundred watts sounds fine for a 10 gallon tank. Before putting
any fish in the tank, run the heater for awhile and moniter the
temperature. Room temperature makes a big difference. If you keep
the room at 77 degrees, you won't need anything else. If the room is
not heated and follows the outside temperature, 100 watts might not be
big enough.

One thing I notice about keeping fish, we all seem to be doing
something different. I shy away from special lights, CO2, special
filters, chemical additives. I enjoy a simple setup. I enjoy clear
water and attractive fish. Others enjoy running a chemical factory,
adding extra light and CO2, adding fertilizers so as to get exotic
results with their plants. I don't understand what seems a
conflicting interest you have about keeping your fish, but not
spending money and yet you keep adding tanks. Space is at a premium
in my small house. I want every tank to be attractive. That does
take up front dollars.

Your gig baby. <g>

dick

[Ross Vandegrift]

On 2004-11-24, Newbie Bill > wrote:
> What can I use for a 'hood' and/or lighting? Grow light for plants?

I have a spare 24" flourescent lighting strip that I'll never use. Came
with a tank that I built my own lighting fixture for. If you don't come
up with anything better, email me - I'll send it your way for shipping
costs.



--
Ross Vandegrift


"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

[Newbie Bill]

WooHoo- Now there's man after my own heart. Waste not ... You're right - I
idled some time today at the Home Depot and there wasnt much jumping off the
lighting shelves that was cheap and adequate. Fortunately the benevolence
of Sir Eric Scheiber may get me over that hump. We only moved about a year
ago so my 'accumulated junk' hasnt had much time to grow. So while at the
HD I did buy a small piece of plexiglass as you suggested. I must confess I
was maybe a half pound foolish. Since I didnt spring for the extra $2.89 for
the scorer I didn put a couple of small cracks in it trimming it to size.
It still looks way fine though.

As for fish I might just net a couple of interesting baby Shubunkins out of
my pond, to make sure they weather the winter. I actually was originally
'planning' to lay out the big buck(s) and maybe get couple 2 or 3 platies?
@1.49 each. I is really difficult though to make an educated guess at what
might work with only house heat/ac. Platies in particular I had seen web
sites which list them in a temperature range of anything from 64-84
degree.(One might say 64-76, another 72-79, another 76-84:( I believe I
have seen some group (barbs maybe) that some thought might be comfortable
down to 69 or 70, but they also like a little more acid water as I recall.
I am trying not to have to doctor the water and our pH is around 7.4/7.5.

Do you have any suggestions about how to 'interpret' pH and temp ranges.
When I first started ponding I was very concerned about pH and impending hot
Texas summer water. Finally an experienced ponder told me just worry about
alkalinity and pH bounce, make sure your water is oxygenated and your fish
will be fine. I did and they were. But that was with very forgiving comets
and koi and 900 gallons of water in an open environment. A small, closed
environment with tropical fish seem to be a bit more problematic. Though my
theme here is obviously spending as little money as necessary I do really
enjoy my fish. I don't want to lose any that I dont have to through learn
as I go experimentation. Though I obviously am not willing to bare no
expense to insure optimum conditions either.
Thanxx for your help!
Bill



"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> Newbie Bill wrote:
>
>> I would love some practical suggestions on cutting costs on
>> 10-20 gal setups.
>
> I've currently got a 30 gallon tank running that I picked up at a
> garage sale for 15 bucks. I've got an expensive filter on it (Magnum
> HOT with bio-wheel) but it was something that had been sitting unused
> in my basement for a year or so.
>
> The tank decorations are all leftover junk from previous tanks.
> Mismatched rocks, polished river stones, a piece of driftwood, a patch
> of plain gravel.
>
> There is no lighting - it's next to a pole lamp, that's all it gets.
> The hood, well, it's a piece of beat up Plexiglass I had sitting in the
> garage.
>
> Though I have several heaters available, none are in the tank. The
> water temperature hovers at right about 68 degrees. For many tropical
> fish, this would be too low. However, that's the temperature the water
> I cought these fish in was. Yup, the fish didn't cost a cent. I caught
> a dozen juvenile bluegills, all about 1" in size, in a drainage pond in
> my subdivision.
>
> For your case, as I see it the tank is the cheap part, and the lighting
> is the expensive part. You can pick up a ten gallon tank for under ten
> bucks. Perfectly good decorations can be had for free if you don't mind
> boiling some rocks and driftwood. A bio-wheel based external filter can
> be bought for something like 15 bucks. Filter pads can be rinsed and
> re-used. The charcoal eventually stops being good, but with regular
> water changes you really don't need charcoal. You can skip lighting
> entirely. And if you've got a butterfly net you can catch minnows
> (check local laws about this first) in a nearby stream.
>
> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com

[Vicki PS]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
. com...
> Bottom
> line is I am trying to find ways to keep that cute little $2.99 fishy from
> actually being a $29.99 fish.
> Thanxx in advance for your suggestions!

You and me both, Bill! There are some great aquarium DIY sites around, if
you want to spend a bit of time googling for them. One such is
http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/diy/. Basically if you've got the time
and a little bit of know-how you can make pretty well everything yourself,
often with cheap or reclaimed materials. And it's amazing what can be put
into service from bits found at $2 shops.

I have 3 x 15 gallon tanks, 3 x 5 gallons and 2 x 3 gallons. One of the 5
gallons is an El Cheapo all-in-one hex which is the only one with lighting
and a proper "hood". I have cheap compact fluoro extendable-neck desk lamps
over two of the larger tanks, which I find gives a pleasant level of
lighting as long as the tank isn't planted. Having glass cut to size for
covers will only set you back a buck or two if you don't want to do it
yourself.

The other 15 gallon has DIY perspex dividers for my bettas, and a couple of
mini-box filters made with plastic salt shakers, kitchen scourer-sponges and
bits from a micro-irrigation system. Some people have had success using the
heaters from dead waterbed mattresses for under-tank or substrate heating.

One of my favourite tanks is a 5 gallon square with a big patched crack
right across the back, that I got for nix. With hardware, silk plants and a
background sheet in place the crack is barely noticeable, and it's a great
home for 4 female bettas. (BTW, 3 litre or larger PET bottles with the tops
cut off and holes punched all over are very handy for separating individual
small fish such as bettas within a larger tank!)

Vicki PS

[Newbie Bill]

Hi Dick - Thanxx for your comments. Thought I might comment/clarify a few.
Dick>. " I was told not to use gravel." - Some people in the GF group I
belong to also advocate bare bottom tanks. BUT - I use a fairly thin layer
(less than 1/2 inch) of fairly small uncoated gravel. I believe it keeps
most of the waste on the surface and is pretty easy to vacuum and pick up
most of it. I think it makes a world of difference in appearance and
perhaps most importantly I think it does provide a good substrate for
nitrifying bacteria. I only have about 6 months experience but I have never
had a reading of anything but nitrates (after cycling of course). I will
definitely keep that in mind though in case I begin to have bacterial
problems.

> " I didn't have an air stone in the tank for
> months, but added one when I noticed the fish at the top."
I do have a spare for emergencies or as symptoms develope. I was just
curious how 'mandatory' they were considered.

>" Heaters either keep a temperature reliably or they don't."

One of my inexperience areas. With these first Penn Plax? thermos I got,
the best I can get them to do is to find a point where they will switch on
and off reliably. Unfortunately thus far, that 'point' has not been the
temperature I wanted to sustain. Adjustments from that 'point' should be
labeled overheat or off:( I did replace them with two that work properly.

>"I don't understand what seems a conflicting interest you have about
>keeping your fish, but not spending money and yet you keep adding tanks.
>Space is at a premium in my small house. I want every tank to be
>attractive. That does take up front dollars."

I agree with you, which is why my first two tanks, in quite conspicuous
places, I did spend more money on. Any future tanks will probably be in
less "public" places. There my initial concern is more about enjoying the
fish than the setting.

I hope you do not think you discern any tone of righteousness in my
comments. I appreciate your and everyone's suggestions. By giving me the
benefit of your experience I can figure out where I can cut corner's and
where not. Like most things, if the overall cost is greater than my
expected recieved value I just won't expand anymore. I just don't want to
limit my options without the benefit of possible alternatives.

Thanxx Again
Bill

[Eric Schreiber]

Newbie Bill wrote:

> WooHoo- Now there's man after my own heart.

It's more of a self-preservation measure, really. My wife would have
killed me if I'd spent money on Yet Another Tank. She didn't mind the
"junk from basement" approach at all.

> while at the HD I did buy a small piece of plexiglass as you
> suggested.

Not only will that keep the fish in, it'll reduce temperature
fluctuations.

> Do you have any suggestions about how to 'interpret' pH and temp
> ranges.

I'm not aware of a link between pH, temperature, and fish health,
though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one. My only rule for pH
and temp is to keep them in the acceptable range for the fish, and
don't let them fluctuate much, or fast. Stabilty is very important.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[Dan White]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
om...
> WooHoo- Now there's man after my own heart. Waste not ... You're right -
I
> idled some time today at the Home Depot and there wasnt much jumping off
the
> lighting shelves that was cheap and adequate. Fortunately the benevolence
> of Sir Eric Scheiber may get me over that hump. We only moved about a
year
> ago so my 'accumulated junk' hasnt had much time to grow. So while at the
> HD I did buy a small piece of plexiglass as you suggested. I must confess
I
> was maybe a half pound foolish. Since I didnt spring for the extra $2.89
for
> the scorer I didn put a couple of small cracks in it trimming it to size.
> It still looks way fine though.

I don't know what you are going to do with the Plexi, but be careful if you
are going to use it as a tank cover. It will sag eventually, and pretty
quickly if it is a thin sheet.

dwhite