New Aquarium and Feeding

[Daniel Phillips]

Hello all,

I posted last week about the aquarium assembly question. I fully set
it up Friday w/ gravel and ornament, waited 48 hrs, treated with mucus
and conditioner, put two fish in it, put starter solution in it, and
fed lightly.

The problem is, this is a 5 gallon tank with two goldfish.
Thankfully, at least, it does have an Aquatech power filter....one
that hangs on the aquarium and also provides a waterfall.

I understand that this 5 gallon is small for goldfish, ESPECIALLY two.
However, this was more or less an emergency procedure because they
came from my 7 month old 30 gal half whiskey barrel pond whose liner
for some reason sprung a leak. The water easily became at critically
low level--we're talking a little over an inch high with fallen
leaves. To boot, these two fish were starting to hang too close to
the surface during the night; bad sign. I was refilling the barrel w/
liner once every two days, sometimes twice. Unfortunately, my plan
was to just get another liner but none were available that were fully
in tact. Whatever caused the liner to leak in the first place would
inevitably happen again.

So, 5 gal was all I was able manage given the fact that I have no
aquarium stand and was paranoid about another leak. I put a towel
under it. I did have *a* stand, though; an old record player built
into an oversized chest, so this is what I plan to use until I can get
a real aquarium stand and a nice-sized tank.

I would just like to know what I can do for a less than ideal
situation. These are feeder fish that I got from Wal Mart for 24
cents or less, so as you can see I've gone through a lot of trouble
for them if you're to measure them in quality and price. Hey, I could
have done much worse and put them in a small bowl with no filtration,
right?

What's really interesting to me is that these two goldfish were active
right away when I put them in the tank. Just about as normal as they
were in the pond. However, when I first put them in the pond early
this year they stayed virtually motionless on the bottom for at least
a month or two. I don't know why they did that then and not now.
Both waters were conditioned, but the different thing is that the
aquarium is filtered and also I had put stuff with stress coating in
it. The fish developed black spots back then, which cleared up. One
fish even went from all black when I first got it to orange. Early
this year, I let the bag float in the water--but this time around I
didn't have a bag w/ inflated oxygen so I just put them in the
aquarium from a regular bowl.

Anyway, I hope I can get some advice. Like I said, I'd like to make
the best of this situation. I do have a testing kit and will even
test the water tonight and of course daily. I'll do a water change
each day if I need to, until things can get stabalized (hopefully).
Yes, I also bought an aquarium book since books on aquariums (maybe
lots of them) have been highly recommended for beginners. Some rocks
from the barrel are still on the liner floor, would it be beneficial
to use those?

I know that goldfish are very hardy. I accidentally dropped one in
the grass once and then picked it up with my hands to put it back into
the "pond" with no ill effect. Even so, I feel I should at least make
an effort for their well being to the best of my ability. I hope they
survive, so I can feel justified in giving them names...

As far the large goldfish bowl that I got earlier this month, I think
that will be reserved for the one fish that can handle it as shallow
pools is its "natural" setting...forgot the name.

Oh yeah, and finally. What about feeding? I have read fish can last a
long time without food. Is that true of goldfish? I put a few flakes
in there and they ate them almost immediately and they have been
mouthing the bottom. I initially put a Top Fin vacation feeder in the
aquarium, but then removed it because they kept trying to eat from it
and also because I read that they play with water chemistry too much.

The goldfish aren't staying near the surface. Occaisionally they do
go to the surface and seem to want to eat a bubble, but they don't
stay there gasping. It also seems as though they do this near the
walls or corners without touching said walls or corners. I hope they
have will have enough oxygen; I imagine the filter flow should
provide that for them.

Daniel

P.S. Hood raised or lowered?

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

[Daniel Phillips]

Here are my water quality test results:

ammonia .25 ppm (just like the pond had always been :/)
ph 8.0
nitrites 0

This is 8 hours after putting the fish in. PH hadn't changed much.
It looks like the water supply *might* already have this .25 ppm, or
just a tiny bit over. Chloramine?

And one final question for now...the tank is set up in the living
room, and a gas fireplace is a good distance across from it. What are
some of the ways to keep the tank water cool? Those fish survived a
southern summer, though, with direct sunlight shaded by water lilies.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:20:37 GMT, Daniel Phillips
> wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>I posted last week about the aquarium assembly question. I fully set
>it up Friday w/ gravel and ornament, waited 48 hrs, treated with mucus
>and conditioner, put two fish in it, put starter solution in it, and
>fed lightly.
>
>The problem is, this is a 5 gallon tank with two goldfish.
>Thankfully, at least, it does have an Aquatech power filter....one
>that hangs on the aquarium and also provides a waterfall.
>
>I understand that this 5 gallon is small for goldfish, ESPECIALLY two.
>However, this was more or less an emergency procedure because they
>came from my 7 month old 30 gal half whiskey barrel pond whose liner
>for some reason sprung a leak. The water easily became at critically
>low level--we're talking a little over an inch high with fallen
>leaves. To boot, these two fish were starting to hang too close to
>the surface during the night; bad sign. I was refilling the barrel w/
>liner once every two days, sometimes twice. Unfortunately, my plan
>was to just get another liner but none were available that were fully
>in tact. Whatever caused the liner to leak in the first place would
>inevitably happen again.
>
>So, 5 gal was all I was able manage given the fact that I have no
>aquarium stand and was paranoid about another leak. I put a towel
>under it. I did have *a* stand, though; an old record player built
>into an oversized chest, so this is what I plan to use until I can get
>a real aquarium stand and a nice-sized tank.
>
>I would just like to know what I can do for a less than ideal
>situation. These are feeder fish that I got from Wal Mart for 24
>cents or less, so as you can see I've gone through a lot of trouble
>for them if you're to measure them in quality and price. Hey, I could
>have done much worse and put them in a small bowl with no filtration,
>right?
>
>What's really interesting to me is that these two goldfish were active
>right away when I put them in the tank. Just about as normal as they
>were in the pond. However, when I first put them in the pond early
>this year they stayed virtually motionless on the bottom for at least
>a month or two. I don't know why they did that then and not now.
>Both waters were conditioned, but the different thing is that the
>aquarium is filtered and also I had put stuff with stress coating in
>it. The fish developed black spots back then, which cleared up. One
>fish even went from all black when I first got it to orange. Early
>this year, I let the bag float in the water--but this time around I
>didn't have a bag w/ inflated oxygen so I just put them in the
>aquarium from a regular bowl.
>
>Anyway, I hope I can get some advice. Like I said, I'd like to make
>the best of this situation. I do have a testing kit and will even
>test the water tonight and of course daily. I'll do a water change
>each day if I need to, until things can get stabalized (hopefully).
>Yes, I also bought an aquarium book since books on aquariums (maybe
>lots of them) have been highly recommended for beginners. Some rocks
>from the barrel are still on the liner floor, would it be beneficial
>to use those?
>
>I know that goldfish are very hardy. I accidentally dropped one in
>the grass once and then picked it up with my hands to put it back into
>the "pond" with no ill effect. Even so, I feel I should at least make
>an effort for their well being to the best of my ability. I hope they
>survive, so I can feel justified in giving them names...
>
>As far the large goldfish bowl that I got earlier this month, I think
>that will be reserved for the one fish that can handle it as shallow
>pools is its "natural" setting...forgot the name.
>
>Oh yeah, and finally. What about feeding? I have read fish can last a
>long time without food. Is that true of goldfish? I put a few flakes
>in there and they ate them almost immediately and they have been
>mouthing the bottom. I initially put a Top Fin vacation feeder in the
>aquarium, but then removed it because they kept trying to eat from it
>and also because I read that they play with water chemistry too much.
>
>The goldfish aren't staying near the surface. Occaisionally they do
>go to the surface and seem to want to eat a bubble, but they don't
>stay there gasping. It also seems as though they do this near the
>walls or corners without touching said walls or corners. I hope they
>have will have enough oxygen; I imagine the filter flow should
>provide that for them.
>
>Daniel
>
>P.S. Hood raised or lowered?
>
>Daniel Phillips

>[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
>Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.


Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Hi Daniel,
As you are well aware you are mightly over stocked. In the meantime I would
change about 25%-40% of the water every two days, get a nitrate test kit
too. No matter how much filtration you have, it won't deal with nitrate!

Also ensure there is lots of surface movement of the water - this will ensure
good oxygenation.

Can you not get a rubbermaid tub that is bigger than 5gallons? This would be
more preferable for a short term solution, or look on ebay for a bargain!

Good luck.

[[email protected]]

GF and the biobugs do better at 76oF or so, they are not cold water fish.

Daniel Phillips > wrote:

>Here are my water quality test results:
>
>ammonia .25 ppm (just like the pond had always been :/)
>ph 8.0
>nitrites 0
>
>This is 8 hours after putting the fish in. PH hadn't changed much.
>It looks like the water supply *might* already have this .25 ppm, or
>just a tiny bit over. Chloramine?
>
>And one final question for now...the tank is set up in the living
>room, and a gas fireplace is a good distance across from it. What are
>some of the ways to keep the tank water cool? Those fish survived a
>southern summer, though, with direct sunlight shaded by water lilies.
>
>On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:20:37 GMT, Daniel Phillips
> wrote:
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I posted last week about the aquarium assembly question. I fully set
>>it up Friday w/ gravel and ornament, waited 48 hrs, treated with mucus
>>and conditioner, put two fish in it, put starter solution in it, and
>>fed lightly.
>>
>>The problem is, this is a 5 gallon tank with two goldfish.
>>Thankfully, at least, it does have an Aquatech power filter....one
>>that hangs on the aquarium and also provides a waterfall.
>>
>>I understand that this 5 gallon is small for goldfish, ESPECIALLY two.
>>However, this was more or less an emergency procedure because they
>>came from my 7 month old 30 gal half whiskey barrel pond whose liner
>>for some reason sprung a leak. The water easily became at critically
>>low level--we're talking a little over an inch high with fallen
>>leaves. To boot, these two fish were starting to hang too close to
>>the surface during the night; bad sign. I was refilling the barrel w/
>>liner once every two days, sometimes twice. Unfortunately, my plan
>>was to just get another liner but none were available that were fully
>>in tact. Whatever caused the liner to leak in the first place would
>>inevitably happen again.
>>
>>So, 5 gal was all I was able manage given the fact that I have no
>>aquarium stand and was paranoid about another leak. I put a towel
>>under it. I did have *a* stand, though; an old record player built
>>into an oversized chest, so this is what I plan to use until I can get
>>a real aquarium stand and a nice-sized tank.
>>
>>I would just like to know what I can do for a less than ideal
>>situation. These are feeder fish that I got from Wal Mart for 24
>>cents or less, so as you can see I've gone through a lot of trouble
>>for them if you're to measure them in quality and price. Hey, I could
>>have done much worse and put them in a small bowl with no filtration,
>>right?
>>
>>What's really interesting to me is that these two goldfish were active
>>right away when I put them in the tank. Just about as normal as they
>>were in the pond. However, when I first put them in the pond early
>>this year they stayed virtually motionless on the bottom for at least
>>a month or two. I don't know why they did that then and not now.
>>Both waters were conditioned, but the different thing is that the
>>aquarium is filtered and also I had put stuff with stress coating in
>>it. The fish developed black spots back then, which cleared up. One
>>fish even went from all black when I first got it to orange. Early
>>this year, I let the bag float in the water--but this time around I
>>didn't have a bag w/ inflated oxygen so I just put them in the
>>aquarium from a regular bowl.
>>
>>Anyway, I hope I can get some advice. Like I said, I'd like to make
>>the best of this situation. I do have a testing kit and will even
>>test the water tonight and of course daily. I'll do a water change
>>each day if I need to, until things can get stabalized (hopefully).
>>Yes, I also bought an aquarium book since books on aquariums (maybe
>>lots of them) have been highly recommended for beginners. Some rocks
>>from the barrel are still on the liner floor, would it be beneficial
>>to use those?
>>
>>I know that goldfish are very hardy. I accidentally dropped one in
>>the grass once and then picked it up with my hands to put it back into
>>the "pond" with no ill effect. Even so, I feel I should at least make
>>an effort for their well being to the best of my ability. I hope they
>>survive, so I can feel justified in giving them names...
>>
>>As far the large goldfish bowl that I got earlier this month, I think
>>that will be reserved for the one fish that can handle it as shallow
>>pools is its "natural" setting...forgot the name.
>>
>>Oh yeah, and finally. What about feeding? I have read fish can last a
>>long time without food. Is that true of goldfish? I put a few flakes
>>in there and they ate them almost immediately and they have been
>>mouthing the bottom. I initially put a Top Fin vacation feeder in the
>>aquarium, but then removed it because they kept trying to eat from it
>>and also because I read that they play with water chemistry too much.
>>
>>The goldfish aren't staying near the surface. Occaisionally they do
>>go to the surface and seem to want to eat a bubble, but they don't
>>stay there gasping. It also seems as though they do this near the
>>walls or corners without touching said walls or corners. I hope they
>>have will have enough oxygen; I imagine the filter flow should
>>provide that for them.
>>
>>Daniel
>>
>>P.S. Hood raised or lowered?
>>
>>Daniel Phillips

>>[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
>>Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.
>
>
>Daniel Phillips

>[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
>Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Daniel Phillips]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:58:07 +0000, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

>
>Hi Daniel,
>As you are well aware you are mightly over stocked. In the meantime I would
>change about 25%-40% of the water every two days, get a nitrate test kit
>too. No matter how much filtration you have, it won't deal with nitrate!
>
>Also ensure there is lots of surface movement of the water - this will ensure
>good oxygenation.
>
>Can you not get a rubbermaid tub that is bigger than 5gallons? This would be
>more preferable for a short term solution, or look on ebay for a bargain!
>
>Good luck.

They're still alive today and the water looks clear. Still not on the
surface. Due for a water test today.

I actually got a bunch of rubbermaid containers for the water changes
today. As I said, though, there's the problem of space and a place to
put a large container. I could technically put this huge tub I saw
at the store on the ground, fill it with water, and put the fish in
there while keeping the filtration. But couldn't that make the floor
dent with all that water? Perhaps the tub can be put outside on my
porch? There is no electrical outlet there for a filter, though.
Here is the 10 day forecast so you can get an idea what our weather is
going to be like:

http://www.weather.com/activities/other/other/weather/tenday.html?locid=USAL0287&from=search_10day

Is there any prep that needs to be done to Rubbermaid containers
before putting fish in there beyond the general rinsing? I'm also not
good at measurements and math. I'd like to know how all the
dimensions I saw at Wal Mart equate in gallons.

I might also be able to just get more items to filter or pump. Any
recommendations? The problem with getting some of these items, though,
is that they seem to come in their own seperate modules that I would
have to buy seperately and put together. Can you give me some idea of
what all I need, please!

I also cannot find a link describing how to move the fish. Moving
from outside (pretty cold water) to inside (fairly warm water--I made
sure not to have the fireplace on to try to minimize temperature
shock) wasn't a problem. I'm more worried about moving them inside
from the warm to cold water outside. Also, since I don't have an
oxygen tank that I can put oxygen into a bag full of water aka
aquashop style, I'm concerned that I can't follow the step of leaving
fish in bag for x amount of minutes.

I moved the lamp that was nearby further away from the tank. What do
you recommend the distance of such a lamp be since it gives off heat
and I think can promote algae?

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

[Daniel Phillips]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:05:27 GMT, wrote:

>GF and the biobugs do better at 76oF or so, they are not cold water fish.
>
>Daniel Phillips > wrote:
>
Allo,

The beginner's book I got from Petsmart, _The Simple Guide to
Freshwater Aquariums_, doesn't even touch goldfish. In fact, it
basically says to not touch goldfish with a ten foot pole! That's too
bad, because I was hoping it could at least give some ideas about
them. A lot of the things I've read online say to not mix tropicals
and goldfish together?

My WQ test kit is actually a pond test kit. Are the tests for ponds
going to be much different than that for an aquarium? I'm concerned
it's not reading accurately enough, because it seems to show the
ammonia as being 0 or at least between 0 - .25 ppm.

I just fed them at first initially, but have not fed them since.

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html
GF book online.
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#essentials
dont mix trops and GF. GF eat trops that fit in their mouth. GF are messy fish
cranking out a lot of wastes. aquarium pharmaceuticals have good tests. get em at
thatpetplace.com.
need to read up on cycling the tank. feed sparingly, high quality food and use water
changes to keep ammonia and nitrites down. Biospira is a bacteria "starter" that
works. keep temp up to 75 to get bacteria going. Ingrid

Daniel Phillips > wrote:
>The beginner's book I got from Petsmart, _The Simple Guide to
>Freshwater Aquariums_, doesn't even touch goldfish. In fact, it
>basically says to not touch goldfish with a ten foot pole! That's too
>bad, because I was hoping it could at least give some ideas about
>them. A lot of the things I've read online say to not mix tropicals
>and goldfish together?
>
>My WQ test kit is actually a pond test kit. Are the tests for ponds
>going to be much different than that for an aquarium? I'm concerned
>it's not reading accurately enough, because it seems to show the
>ammonia as being 0 or at least between 0 - .25 ppm.
>
>I just fed them at first initially, but have not fed them since.
>
>Daniel Phillips

>[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
>Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[jmanrow]

Daniel,
You mentioned yout pH is 8.0
I suggest you gradually lower it closer to 7.0, at least for the
initial cycling of the tank. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
.. Although you have added water conditioner, nitrifying bacteria, the
increasing Ammonia is very toxic at higher pH. Ammonia is relatively
non-toxic at lower pH(ammonium NH4), and becomes toxic free ammonia
(NH3) as the pH increases.
http://ce.ecn.purdue.edu/~piwc/w3-research/free-ammonia/nh3.html
An alternative would be to use a product such as Ammo-Lock or Amquel,
which detoxify free ammonia. The dreawback with using these type of
products is using most ammonia test kits(using Nessler Reagents), a
false reading is given. To get an accurate reading, a kit with
Salicylate Reagent http://www.petsforum.com/novalek/kpd52.htm is
needed, such as the Aquarium Pharmaceutical Brand "Dry-Tab" Ammonia
Test Kit.