Magic Impregnated Gravel for small, fw tank

[Emily]

Hi,

Tony on rec.aquaria.tech, as well as very kindly providing some links to
pages on the nitrogen cycle, suggested posting the following message
to rec.aquaria.misc. I apologize if anyone is offended by the duplication.

I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
direction.

I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
nitrifying bacteria.

Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
The claim in the brochure is that filters and mechanical aeration are
unnecessary because of this magical stuff.

Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
strangely evasive -- presumably because it's their commercial secret
and they don't want anyone cutting in on their business.

I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Emily

[Robert Flory]

It's possible but probably just a slick selling tool. Any gravel in an
aquarium will develop nitrifying bacteria.... Bettas tolerate all sorts of
tiny containers that would kill most fish, but they do better in a normal
aquarium.

Rule #1: Most people that work in fish shops don't know dittily. Netmax,
here abouts, is one of the exceptions.... if he responds listen
of course there a few good LFS (live fish shops) out there. Lots
independent some chains run by pros like Netmax who has people who are
trained and love fish. Fortunately I have the former just down the street.

Start here ..... http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html
nitrogen cycle >>>> ammonia (from fish waste) >>>>>. nitrite >>>>>>
nitrate.... change water to keep nitrate and dissolved organics low enough
for healthy fish.

"cycling a tank" is the process of getting a nitrogen cycle established in
a tank. The hard way takes weeks

There is no magic ..... put water in a container ...... add any source of
ammonia the cycle begins ...
Everyone sells something to boost things -- much of it is snake oil.

Google fishless cycle ... to see how it can be done without fish. Fish food
works too.

Actually the best way is to stuff your filter with filter material borrowed
from another aquarium or vac mulm (the crud that accumulates in aquarium
gravel) from someone's tank (a healthy stable tank) and add it to the new
aquarium. Combine that with a bunch of plants and you can bypass the cycle
if you don't screw up somehow. Do it right and you have instant cycling.

Actually put in enough plants and only a few fish and you'll never see the
nitrite spike and nitrate buildup that demonstrates the cycle is
established.

ammonia from fish waste >>>> plants .... it's gone till the plant dies and
decays .

The reason people put plants in with bettas is that the plants help remove
nitrates that build up from fish wastes.

Start here ..... http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/


http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/

Ask questions ... feel free to cross post too. We were all newbies once.
Most of us are still learning new tricks .... even the old codgers... ;-)

enjoy ..
Bob

"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Tony on rec.aquaria.tech, as well as very kindly providing some links to
> pages on the nitrogen cycle, suggested posting the following message
> to rec.aquaria.misc. I apologize if anyone is offended by the duplication.
>
> I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
> some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
> comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
> at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
> nitrifying bacteria.
>
> Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
> my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
> The claim in the brochure is that filters and mechanical aeration are
> unnecessary because of this magical stuff.
>
> Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
> when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
> disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
> strangely evasive -- presumably because it's their commercial secret
> and they don't want anyone cutting in on their business.
>
> I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Regards,
>
> Emily
>

[coelacanth]

Hi Emily,

Since I know someone will suggest The Krib
(an excellent site), I'll point you to another
good site, www.skepticalaquarist.com/. Look
at the stuff on "Biofilm".

The "magic" in your gravel is obtainable by
putting ordinary muggle gravel in contact
with an established aquarium. We in the
non-wizarding world call this "bacteria".

As an aside, you may want to look into
"Biospira" which is taking the aquarium
world by storm and really does seem
like magic.

Good luck with the report!

-coelacanth

P.S. Be sure to document all your sources,
even the internet-derived ones.

"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Tony on rec.aquaria.tech, as well as very kindly providing some links to
> pages on the nitrogen cycle, suggested posting the following message
> to rec.aquaria.misc. I apologize if anyone is offended by the duplication.
>
> I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
> some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
> comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
> at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
> nitrifying bacteria.
>
> Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
> my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel?
> The claim in the brochure is that filters and mechanical aeration are
> unnecessary because of this magical stuff.
>
> Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
> when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
> disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were
> strangely evasive -- presumably because it's their commercial secret
> and they don't want anyone cutting in on their business.
>
> I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Regards,
>
> Emily
>

[Elizabeth Naime]

Quoth Emily > on Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:49:47 GMT,

First, about that gravel. Nothing magical about it. Most of the
beneficial bacteria that convert toxic ammonia (fish waste) to
less-toxic (but still quite dangerous) nitrite, and nitrite to much more
nearly benign nitrAte, are lithotropic. They like rocks. They need
water, and they need oxygen (they're aerobic). The classic undergravel
filter pushes air or water through a bed of gravel, counting on the
gravel to provide surface area for the bacteria to grow on and the air
or water movement to provide the oxygen. Other biofilter systems may
look very different (sponges, biowheels) but are all using the same
principle: provide habitat, water and oxygen for the filter bacteria,
and move the tank water through this filter so the bacteria can have at
it.

Without "aeration or mechanical filtration" the concern would be how the
gravel bed is getting enough oxygen, and also how the water is kept
moving through the gravel.

You can get fully seeded gravel from any well cycled tank with an
undergravel filter. Indeed, if you have a source you trust (because
after all any undesirable bacteria or fish parasites will also come with
the gravel!) this is possibly the oldest and certainly the simplest way
to start a new tank cycling. More recently people have experimented,
very successfully, with rinsing out well-established filters and adding
the liquid "gunk" to a new tank. It's been reported to be much faster
than the gravel-seeding method but has the same caveats -- you get a bit
of whatever was in that tank, including nasties if present. Read about
it here:
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=64&category=15&search_term=ammonia
..

You can purchase various products alleged to have the necessary
bacteria. I consider these snake oil myself, because I have doubts about
the bacteria surviving in the bottle while it sits on the shelf for
months; the real snake oil, though, is that these bacteria are just
about everywhere and will show up in your tanks whether you "add" them
or not!

There are one or two "cycle bacteria" products that do seem to work.
They rely on being very fresh and shipped directly to you very quickly
-- and they are incredibly expensive. Not because the bacteria are rare
or innovative, but because of the timing involved to get them to you
while still numerous and active.

There is one other product you might look into here,
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=33&category=13&search_term=ammonia.
Not at all sure what this is or how it works, but it's clearly NOT your
ordinary filter bacteria! As an innovation, it seems to me like
wonderful stuff, but it will never replace the traditional biofilter.

>I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
>some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
>comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
>at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with
>nitrifying bacteria.

Hmm. Is this a small cube thing sold with the gravel, a tiny plant,
water and fish already in? You may have an "aqua baby" or something
similar.

I don't approve of 'em, but this is a science project -- a great place
to do your own research! I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you purchase a
water testing kit from the local fish store. Make a chart and test daily
for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and I'd love to see you test for
dissolved oxygen too since the manufacturer claims no aeration is
needed. In aquaria, we strive for ZERO ammonia and ZERO nitrites, and
keep nitrates low with regular water changes (and lots of plants help as
well). I've always assumed this is true in nature as well, since in
nature there are far fewer fish than we stock in our tanks. But since
you have that test kit you can gather samples from local rivers, creeks,
lakes, ponds, whatever's convenient -- and test to see if this is true.

I don't know how much leeway you have on the project. If you have
leeway, I would do an experiment. Keep one of these small containers
exactly as supplied, doing exactly the maintenance the manufacturer
recommends, and test daily for all the things mentioned above.
Meanwhile, purchase or borrow a small conventional filtered tank (a
ten-gallon tank with an undergravel filter is probably the best bang for
your buck), a bunch of plants (anacharis/elodea, cabomba, frill plant,
and parrot feather are readily available and cheap; hornwort will work
as well, but is harder to find and tends to "shed" leaves that clog up
filters), and another betta setup from the same place you got your first
one. Hold off on the betta until you have the new tank cycled (you've
gotten good references for that already), then buy the betta and add the
fish and plant to the cycled tank. Now you have a control, a tank using
conventional methods, to test alongside of the little container.

I really think you will find that the small container does not acheive
or at least does not maintain 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, and that you
will see a higher level of dissolved oxygen in the conventional tank as
well. But you can find out, and report those results. This would be
great if the project requirements allow you to study whether or not an
innovation actually works.

In innovation in general, read up on the cycle and the nitrifying
bacteria and the methods currently used to bring everything together
(undergravel filters, wet/dry sponge filters, and biowheels are the ones
I know about; there may be others). Is there another way that hasn't
been tried yet, that might be more effective or maybe just easier to set
up?

I would love to learn of your results, and I think many others would
also if you'd like to post them here.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.