Newbie needs help with goldfish. All of them died in 2 days. :(

[[email protected]]

Hi, I am a newbie to fish and I desperately need some help.

I have a 100 gallon tank with 2 types of pump filters, one that gives
white powers stuff, and one that contains black carbon filter. I got
these from a friend and he helped me setup everything. He use to do
this a lot but has no room for it anymore. He use to have salt water
fish but said frehwater goldfish is the easieste...

We put water in and connected everything. Put new filter/carbon into
both filters, also installed those bubble thing at the bottom that
helps oxygen. I got so excited, I decided to buy some fish. So I got
about 10 small goldfishes and put it in the tank. (actually we put the
plastic bag that contains the fish/water into the tank and let it sat
for about half an hour. He said it helps the fish to adjust to the new
water temp.

Then we opened the bag and put the fish in. everything looked good. I
even put a bit of fish food into the tank. The fish is a little shy
but one of them came up and ate some of it. but after a day or so, the
fish begin to look not so good, and today all of them have died. They
are definitely not short of food, as there are still some food
particles at the top of the water. (actually i wasn't home yesterday
so they could've died yesterday. i don't know. :(

I am puzzled, what could it be? Here are some of the things I can
think of.

1. water temperature is too cold.

It has been pretty cold here in the past few days. I don't know what
the water temperature is, but it is slightly cold to the tough (but
definitely not freezing). I'd estimate it to be about ~45-50f. The
water is from the tap. I am in the bay area, the water here is
slightly hard, but reasonable.

2. Dust/dirt from old equipment. Although the water looks very clean.

3. Do I need to keep the lamp on 24 hours a day? Does the fish
care/mind if the lamp is off at night?

The thing is, about an hour after I put the fish in, my friend said
some of them doesn't look too good, about 4 all sit at the bottom
resting... a few of them was still swimming around.

I am going to ask my friend about it tomorrow, but I feel bad because
all of them has died for some reason...

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Raymond

[John D. Goulden]

> Hi, I am a newbie to fish and I desperately need some help.
>
> I have a 100 gallon tank with 2 types of pump filters, one that gives
> white powers stuff, and one that contains black carbon filter. I got
> these from a friend and he helped me setup everything. He use to do
> this a lot but has no room for it anymore. He use to have salt water
> fish but said frehwater goldfish is the easieste...
>
> We put water in and connected everything. Put new filter/carbon into
> both filters, also installed those bubble thing at the bottom that
> helps oxygen. I got so excited, I decided to buy some fish. So I got
> about 10 small goldfishes and put it in the tank. (actually we put the
> plastic bag that contains the fish/water into the tank and let it sat
> for about half an hour. He said it helps the fish to adjust to the new
> water temp.
>
> Then we opened the bag and put the fish in. everything looked good. I
> even put a bit of fish food into the tank. The fish is a little shy
> but one of them came up and ate some of it. but after a day or so, the
> fish begin to look not so good, and today all of them have died. They
> are definitely not short of food, as there are still some food
> particles at the top of the water. (actually i wasn't home yesterday
> so they could've died yesterday. i don't know. :(
>
> I am puzzled, what could it be? Here are some of the things I can
> think of.
>
> 1. water temperature is too cold.
>
> It has been pretty cold here in the past few days. I don't know what
> the water temperature is, but it is slightly cold to the tough (but
> definitely not freezing). I'd estimate it to be about ~45-50f. The
> water is from the tap. I am in the bay area, the water here is
> slightly hard, but reasonable.

Some GF tolerate temperatures below 60F but others do not. You may have
gotten some GF that just couldn't take such a low temperature.

> 2. Dust/dirt from old equipment. Although the water looks very clean.

Did you treat / dechlorinate the water? If your tap water has lots of
chlorine / chloramine in it that will hurt the fish. My first guess when I
read your post is that you used straight untreated tap water and the
chlorine / chloramine got them. Was the tank cleaned before you got it? If
it (or any component in the tank) was cleaned with bleach or other household
cleaners it must be rinsed and rinsed and rinsed - even a tiny amount of
bleach is a real fish killer.

> 3. Do I need to keep the lamp on 24 hours a day? Does the fish
> care/mind if the lamp is off at night?

Both fish and plants appreciate a regular day / night cycle. I turn my
lights on in the morning and off at night. I really should really get a
timer but it's so much fun to turn on the lights myself and have the fish
rush to me begging for their morning feed.

> The thing is, about an hour after I put the fish in, my friend said
> some of them doesn't look too good, about 4 all sit at the bottom
> resting... a few of them was still swimming around.

You could have had sick fish to begin with, but that sounds like chlorine /
chloramine in the water to me, perhaps compounded by temperature shock if
the water was that cold.

> I am going to ask my friend about it tomorrow, but I feel bad because
> all of them has died for some reason...
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Treat and salt the water (GF do well with a bit of aquarium salt in the
water - I usually add half the amount directed on the package) and let it
sit at least a day before adding fish. Get a heater (for a 100 gallon tank
you'll need a big one) and keep the temp at about 68F or so - most GF do
fine at that temperature (if you decide to go with warm-water tropicals they
need about 78F or so but GF are cool-water fish; don't mix cool-water GF and
warm-water tropicals). Read about "cycling" and make sure your tank is fully
cycled; get a test kit for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites and learn how to
use it. A planted tank with a gravel bed helps maintain a stable
environment, but some GF are notorious plant-eaters and plant-uprooters. GF
are also notoriously dirty and need agressive filtering and regular water
changes. GF need lots of aeration (sounds like you already have an
airstone - one isn't enough for a large tank) and like to have a fairly
strong current in the water; I use a powerhead on an UGF for filtration (in
conjunction with a cannister filter, which you seem to have already) and
current in my GF tanks. Read these ngs where lots of friendly folks will be
glad to help you out (while lusting for your 100-gallon setup :)

--
John Goulden
mainly goldies, guppies, swordtails, and bettas

[Jon Pike]

wrote in :

>
> Hi, I am a newbie to fish and I desperately need some help.
>
> I have a 100 gallon tank with 2 types of pump filters, one that gives
> white powers stuff, and one that contains black carbon filter. I got
> these from a friend and he helped me setup everything. He use to do
> this a lot but has no room for it anymore. He use to have salt water
> fish but said frehwater goldfish is the easieste...
>
> We put water in and connected everything. Put new filter/carbon into
> both filters, also installed those bubble thing at the bottom that
> helps oxygen. I got so excited, I decided to buy some fish. So I got
> about 10 small goldfishes and put it in the tank. (actually we put the
> plastic bag that contains the fish/water into the tank and let it sat
> for about half an hour. He said it helps the fish to adjust to the new
> water temp.
>
> Then we opened the bag and put the fish in. everything looked good. I
> even put a bit of fish food into the tank. The fish is a little shy
> but one of them came up and ate some of it. but after a day or so, the
> fish begin to look not so good, and today all of them have died. They
> are definitely not short of food, as there are still some food
> particles at the top of the water. (actually i wasn't home yesterday
> so they could've died yesterday. i don't know. :(
>
> I am puzzled, what could it be? Here are some of the things I can
> think of.
>
> 1. water temperature is too cold.
>
> It has been pretty cold here in the past few days. I don't know what
> the water temperature is, but it is slightly cold to the tough (but
> definitely not freezing). I'd estimate it to be about ~45-50f. The
> water is from the tap. I am in the bay area, the water here is
> slightly hard, but reasonable.

You'll have to measure that. If the tank is indoors, then it won't be
that cold. Unless you live in an igloo. Your water would have been slowly
heating up to room temperature.
However, that's not cold enough to kill most goldfishes, provided they
were acclimatized properly. If they weren't, you would've noticed it
right away. They would've basically sank to the bottom and stayed there
until they died (most likely). Sounds like that wasn't the case.

They're also fairly flexible when it comes to water hardness. I've got
nicely goodly hard water here, and my carp(goldfish, koi, etc) have never
complained.

> 2. Dust/dirt from old equipment. Although the water looks very clean.

Did you give it a good scrub before you plugged it all in? You don't
mention whether you did or not, and if you think it might've been
dust/dirt, I'm guessing you probably didn't.
Well, the dust or dirt wouldn't've done anything.
What -might- (though it's unlikely) have had an effect would have been
leftover bacteria from the last use. You didn't mention how long ago he
stopped using the tank, so if they were still a little wet, the bacteria
could still have been there. If they were bone-dry, it's not very likely.

> 3. Do I need to keep the lamp on 24 hours a day? Does the fish
> care/mind if the lamp is off at night?

They prefer darkness to sleep. Don't you? :)

> The thing is, about an hour after I put the fish in, my friend said
> some of them doesn't look too good, about 4 all sit at the bottom
> resting... a few of them was still swimming around.

o. well maybe they didn't get enough acclimatization time. Next time
start your water off ~70'f (get a thermal-meter (thermometer) and test
it. they're cheap). That'll be closer to what the fish store water was,
and they'll be less stressed. This isn't to say that you didn't give them
enough time to acclimatize; my pond fish will sit at the bottom and do
nothing at all during the first few days of winter before I get them out
of the pond and back into the house. They just generally slow down when
it's too cold.

> I am going to ask my friend about it tomorrow, but I feel bad because
> all of them has died for some reason...

Next time make sure you don't put your fish store water into your fish
tank with your fish. Scoop them out with a net. Yes, I know it's a pain,
but fish store water is not to be relied upon to be clean.



What most likely happened, however, is that there was no cycle set up in
the tank.
http://www.bestfish.com/breakin.html
http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/cycle.phtml
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
and just google for others.

Basically, you shouldn't put more than 1-2 fish in your tank for the
first month at least. Your tank has to 'cycle' before you can add more.
What that means is it needs to build up the right kind of bacteria to
deal with the waste salts that fish produce.
Basically, fish pee out ammonia, which gets turned into nitrite, and then
into nitrate. Nitrate is usually fairly safe for goldfishes. ammonia and
nitrite will kill them if there's too much of it ("if levels get too
high").

I think you'll find most people will say: "your tank didn't cycle, and
that's why your fishes died."


Finally, I'm guessing what you got were those "dime-a-dozen" feeder
goldfishes. They're alright, but even with the best tank conditions,
expect a good proportion of them to die. They've got weak immune systems,
have been systematically overcrowded and overstressed, and just generally
have been abused up until the point where you got them.


--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[Jon Pike]

"John D. Goulden" > wrote in news:cp2q8v02rq7
@news4.newsguy.com:

> Treat and salt the water (GF do well with a bit of aquarium salt in the
> water - I usually add half the amount directed on the package)

A note on this, table salt is not fish salt. You need special fish salt to
put in your tank. (Just pointing out cause he's a self-proclaimed newbie)

And yeah. I should've thought of the chlorine thing too :/

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[Daniel Phillips]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:37:57 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

>
Hello,

So another newbie! Like me. I'm sorry that you had 10 fish die on you
in two days. I really hope mine will live. I've got to try to find a
more suitable container! I use Aqua Safe Water Conditioner to treat my
water for chlorine and chloramine, and StressZyme starter for the
filter bugs.

My two fish are still alive, but they seem to be slowing down if not
water changed. :-( I've unfortunately had to change the water 50%
every day, because ammonia is getting to the .50 - 1.0 range after a
day. Today I set the new (treated of course) water by the furnace so
that temperature would feel approx the same, and the fish didn't dash
around frantically after the water change. This is the 7th day with
fish in it, so I put some more starter bugs in it.

However, I think I'm getting the hang of my gravity powered siphon and
have cleaned out a fair share of fish poo, and just recently started
feeding them very sparingly. What is a critical ammonia amount?

Daniel Phillips

[+]bandito[-]spam = [-]toppler.[+]zworg.com
Be warned, may mistakingly bounce back as spam.

[Starfish]

Definately a chlorine and chloramine problem.... There also might have been
way too much dust in the tank/filter and the dust got into their gills.

Did the person from whom you got the tank from have any problems with their
fish (disease, parasites etc.) If the tank was still wet the parasites could
have stayed
> wrote in message ...
>
> Hi, I am a newbie to fish and I desperately need some help.
>
> I have a 100 gallon tank with 2 types of pump filters, one that gives
> white powers stuff, and one that contains black carbon filter. I got
> these from a friend and he helped me setup everything. He use to do
> this a lot but has no room for it anymore. He use to have salt water
> fish but said frehwater goldfish is the easieste...
>
> We put water in and connected everything. Put new filter/carbon into
> both filters, also installed those bubble thing at the bottom that
> helps oxygen. I got so excited, I decided to buy some fish. So I got
> about 10 small goldfishes and put it in the tank. (actually we put the
> plastic bag that contains the fish/water into the tank and let it sat
> for about half an hour. He said it helps the fish to adjust to the new
> water temp.
>
> Then we opened the bag and put the fish in. everything looked good. I
> even put a bit of fish food into the tank. The fish is a little shy
> but one of them came up and ate some of it. but after a day or so, the
> fish begin to look not so good, and today all of them have died. They
> are definitely not short of food, as there are still some food
> particles at the top of the water. (actually i wasn't home yesterday
> so they could've died yesterday. i don't know. :(
>
> I am puzzled, what could it be? Here are some of the things I can
> think of.
>
> 1. water temperature is too cold.
>
> It has been pretty cold here in the past few days. I don't know what
> the water temperature is, but it is slightly cold to the tough (but
> definitely not freezing). I'd estimate it to be about ~45-50f. The
> water is from the tap. I am in the bay area, the water here is
> slightly hard, but reasonable.
>
> 2. Dust/dirt from old equipment. Although the water looks very clean.
>
> 3. Do I need to keep the lamp on 24 hours a day? Does the fish
> care/mind if the lamp is off at night?
>
> The thing is, about an hour after I put the fish in, my friend said
> some of them doesn't look too good, about 4 all sit at the bottom
> resting... a few of them was still swimming around.
>
> I am going to ask my friend about it tomorrow, but I feel bad because
> all of them has died for some reason...
>
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Raymond

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Too many fish introduced at once. You need to ensure you cycle is mild!
Read up on the nitrogen cycle.

[Donald K]

Starfish wrote:

> Definately a chlorine and chloramine problem.... There also might have
> been way too much dust in the tank/filter and the dust got into their
> gills.

Also did they use any chemicals or soap in scrubbing out the tanks?

I wouldn't expect deaths from cycle issues in the first two days,
especially with 10 fish in 100 gallons...

-D
--
"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem,
see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable
words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[[email protected]]

for fresh water fish like GF table salt with no additives is fine if dissolved first
and stirred in slowly. rock salt is better. Ingrid

>A note on this, table salt is not fish salt. You need special fish salt to
>put in your tank.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#essentials
essentials list for keeping GF
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care1.htm#buying%20a%20new%20goldfish
how to select a new GF
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/care/care.htm care of GF
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/home.html


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

FISHLESS CYCLING OF TANKS
rather than getting the RIGHT kind of ammonia and getting the RIGHT amount in the
tank, a pinch of Hikari Gold fish food for a small tank up to a tablespoon in a 75
gallon can be tossed into the tank, the heat set to 82oF and plenty of aeration. In
3 days or so watch the ammonia. If no ammonia is seen add more food.


Geezer From The Freezer > wrote:

>Too many fish introduced at once. You need to ensure you cycle is mild!
>Read up on the nitrogen cycle.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

everything above ammonia just detectable. same for nitrites. Ingrid

What is a critical ammonia amount?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish Starfish > wrote:

> Definately a chlorine and chloramine problem.... There also might have been
> way too much dust in the tank/filter and the dust got into their gills.

> Did the person from whom you got the tank from have any problems with their
> fish (disease, parasites etc.) If the tank was still wet the parasites could
> have stayed

If the water has too much chlorine, what do I do? How do I get rid of
the extra chemical?

The person that I got the tank from, he specifically said do not use
any kind of washing detergants like soap, etc. so we just used clean
water. Come to think of it, the sponge I used to wipe the inside of
the tank is not new and might have contained chemicals.

The tank is completely dry and has been unused for a few years. We
cleaned the inside of the tank lightly with a sponge, but we didn't
wash the inside. He had some small rocks alone with some decorative
stuff in the tank that we kept. Now the tank has about 0.5-1 inch of a
layer of small rocks at bottom.

I have a slightly different problem now. The fish might have been
sitting in the tank for about a day after they died. I've removed them
now, but the tank now has a smell. I opened all the windows and it
helped, but I think the water has a slight smell to it. Subtle, but I
can smell it.

I've left both cannister filter running, one is a dust/particle filter
and one is a carbon filter. Would that eventually get rid of the
smell? I will change water but probably can't get to it until this
weekend.

So this is what I gathered I should do:

1. change the water completely.
2. let the system run for about a week with the clean water, the water
would've reached room temp which is about 60+.
3. introduce GF to the tank and hope for the best.

I will get a test kit for testing the level of the water. Someone have
also said I should add some salt to the water?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Raymond