adding salt

[Joe Cool]

I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?

[Pszemol]

"Joe Cool" > wrote in message news:Cg0vd.178384$5K2.93445@attbi_s03...
>I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
> question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
> slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?

How the tank is currently inhabited ?
What is the current salnity and what is the desired one ?

Very small difference you can cover over night...
Larger ones, especially when the tank is populated with delicate
animals, need to be performed over longer time...

[Steve Schreiber]

Joe Cool wrote:
> I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
> question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
> slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
Hey,

I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have
learned/been told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie...
1.023-1.024 or 1.025 to 1.024. This would of course depend on what you
have in there. I had ( :( ) a starfish and he would get really cranky
on a half a point a day. With him in there I would do a point over
about 3 days (this does not include top-ups for evaporation). He didn't
seem to mind that to much. All my other stuff in there, polyps, Hammer
coral, inverts, clowns etc... don't seem terribly bothered by a point
jump over the period of a day (drop it a few ticks every few hours...).

S.

--


--> GNU/Linux is user friendly... it's just picky about its friends.

[Knowleman]

I add 2-3 litres a day of RO water to compensate for evaporation. I
figure if you added a similar volume of double concentrated salted
water to whatever your daily evap volume is, the delta will be the same
(albeit in the opposite direction) so that's going to be safe. I guess
this might take a while if you need to bump up the salinity
dramatically but if things are stable, that shouldn't be a problem.

Joe Cool wrote:
> I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it.
My
> question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very

> slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a
week?

[george]

"Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
> Joe Cool wrote:
>> I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
>> question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very slowly,
>> like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
> Hey,
>
> I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have learned/been
> told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie... 1.023-1.024 or 1.025 to
> 1.024. This would of course depend on what you have in there. I had ( :( ) a
> starfish and he would get really cranky on a half a point a day. With him in
> there I would do a point over about 3 days (this does not include top-ups for
> evaporation). He didn't seem to mind that to much. All my other stuff in
> there, polyps, Hammer coral, inverts, clowns etc... don't seem terribly
> bothered by a point jump over the period of a day (drop it a few ticks every
> few hours...).
>
> S.

Hmmm. I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much of
anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.

[Pszemol]

"george" > wrote in message news:Ilhvd.564423$D%.564376@attbi_s51...
> I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much of
> anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.

Not all starfish are the same. Linkia species are known to be
more sensitive to salnity variations than other stars...

[george]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "george" > wrote in message
> news:Ilhvd.564423$D%.564376@attbi_s51...
>> I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much of
>> anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.
>
> Not all starfish are the same. Linkia species are known to be
> more sensitive to salnity variations than other stars...

I wasn't aware of that. Actually Brittle stars are closer to Crinoids than they
are to starfish. And unlike most starfish, can move across a tank relatively
fast if properly motivated. They have eye lenses made of calcium carbonate that
are apparently considered perfect lenses for use in fiber optics (when I first
got mine, I was amazed at how sensitve they were to light and movement near the
tank. When I come close to the tank, if it is out of the rocks, it usually
hides rather quickly). There is a research program with them (I believe at
the Univerity of Maryland) to see if the lenses can be made synthetically.

Nevertheless, they are indeed much hardier than many starfish, and nearly all
crinoids (which is why you don't see live crinoids at pet shops). I've had mine
for nearly ten years, and it is now about 18" across the longest arms. It once
ate an entire dying long tentacled anemone. The result was that it developed a
large hole completely through it's body (I assume as a result of the stinging
cells of the anemone), and over a period of several months, it completely healed
itself. They have an incredible immune system, which is being studied for
possible medical breakthroughs with the human immune system.

[Steve Schreiber]

george wrote:
> "Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Joe Cool wrote:
>>
>>>I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
>>>question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very slowly,
>>>like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
>>
>>Hey,
>>
>>I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have learned/been
>>told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie... 1.023-1.024 or 1.025 to
>>1.024. This would of course depend on what you have in there. I had ( :( ) a
>>starfish and he would get really cranky on a half a point a day. With him in
>>there I would do a point over about 3 days (this does not include top-ups for
>>evaporation). He didn't seem to mind that to much. All my other stuff in
>>there, polyps, Hammer coral, inverts, clowns etc... don't seem terribly
>>bothered by a point jump over the period of a day (drop it a few ticks every
>>few hours...).
>>
>>S.
>
>
> Hmmm. I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much of
> anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.
>
>
Hey,

I agree it does not seem like much, but my Red Linkia would 'run' when
the water came in. If I went with more of a top up, the ends of each
arm would curl up. In the end, somthing got a piece of him, he lost a
leg and had battle scars all over... until he (?) eventually died. With
what I have in there now, I can drop it two to three points (does not
happen to often) and all that will happen is my clowns look a little
irritated, and my Hammer Coral will pull in a little. I believe that a
small top up will not only decrease salinity, but changes other things
like trace elements, nitrates (good thing though on this) etc...
all this for some things living in tanks might be even a little
stressful. Not saying that salinity can't be dropped more at once
safely, just not comfortably!

S.
--


--> GNU/Linux is user friendly... it's just picky about its friends.

[george]

"Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
> george wrote:
>> "Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Joe Cool wrote:
>>>
>>>>I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
>>>>question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
>>>>slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
>>>
>>>Hey,
>>>
>>>I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have learned/been
>>>told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie... 1.023-1.024 or 1.025 to
>>>1.024. This would of course depend on what you have in there. I had ( :( )
>>>a starfish and he would get really cranky on a half a point a day. With him
>>>in there I would do a point over about 3 days (this does not include top-ups
>>>for evaporation). He didn't seem to mind that to much. All my other stuff
>>>in there, polyps, Hammer coral, inverts, clowns etc... don't seem terribly
>>>bothered by a point jump over the period of a day (drop it a few ticks every
>>>few hours...).
>>>
>>>S.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm. I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much
>> of anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.
> Hey,
>
> I agree it does not seem like much, but my Red Linkia would 'run' when the
> water came in. If I went with more of a top up, the ends of each arm would
> curl up. In the end, somthing got a piece of him, he lost a leg and had
> battle scars all over... until he (?) eventually died. With what I have in
> there now, I can drop it two to three points (does not happen to often) and
> all that will happen is my clowns look a little irritated, and my Hammer Coral
> will pull in a little. I believe that a small top up will not only decrease
> salinity, but changes other things like trace elements, nitrates (good thing
> though on this) etc...
> all this for some things living in tanks might be even a little stressful.
> Not saying that salinity can't be dropped more at once safely, just not
> comfortably!
>
> S.
> --

If you are having these problems, I suggest that perhaps you are pouring maku up
water in too quickly. Try doing it more slowly, over a longer period of time.
I never add water directly to the tank. I always mix it very slowly in the
sump. As for changing the chemistry, you have to remember this: although the
salinity will change, the relative concentrations of salts do not change.
Absolute concentrations DO change, however. In other words, if, for instance,
you have a one gallon solution containing 20% calcium and 0.1% sodium, adding a
pint of pure water to the solution will not change the concentration of one salt
relative to the other. You will still have the same amount of calcium relative
to sodium. However, the total concentration of the solution will be reduced
because you've diluted the solution. This is the same for just about any
dissolved solid.

[Jon]

I personally would just top up with mixed sal****er instead
of freshwater until i was at the desired salinity.
This pretty much ensure that it'll be done over a longer period
of time, and helps give you a little more control over it so you don't
"over do" it and end up with it to high.

"Joe Cool" > wrote in message
news:Cg0vd.178384$5K2.93445@attbi_s03...
> I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
> question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
> slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?

[Steve Schreiber]

george wrote:
> "Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>george wrote:
>>
>>>"Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Joe Cool wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
>>>>>question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
>>>>>slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
>>>>
>>>>Hey,
>>>>
>>>>I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have learned/been
>>>>told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie... 1.023-1.024 or 1.025 to
>>>>1.024. This would of course depend on what you have in there. I had ( :( )
>>>>a starfish and he would get really cranky on a half a point a day. With him
>>>>in there I would do a point over about 3 days (this does not include top-ups
>>>>for evaporation). He didn't seem to mind that to much. All my other stuff
>>>>in there, polyps, Hammer coral, inverts, clowns etc... don't seem terribly
>>>>bothered by a point jump over the period of a day (drop it a few ticks every
>>>>few hours...).
>>>>
>>>>S.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hmmm. I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by much
>>>of anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.
>>
>>Hey,
>>
>>I agree it does not seem like much, but my Red Linkia would 'run' when the
>>water came in. If I went with more of a top up, the ends of each arm would
>>curl up. In the end, somthing got a piece of him, he lost a leg and had
>>battle scars all over... until he (?) eventually died. With what I have in
>>there now, I can drop it two to three points (does not happen to often) and
>>all that will happen is my clowns look a little irritated, and my Hammer Coral
>>will pull in a little. I believe that a small top up will not only decrease
>>salinity, but changes other things like trace elements, nitrates (good thing
>>though on this) etc...
>>all this for some things living in tanks might be even a little stressful.
>>Not saying that salinity can't be dropped more at once safely, just not
>>comfortably!
>>
>>S.
>>--
>
>
> If you are having these problems, I suggest that perhaps you are pouring maku up
> water in too quickly. Try doing it more slowly, over a longer period of time.
> I never add water directly to the tank. I always mix it very slowly in the
> sump. As for changing the chemistry, you have to remember this: although the
> salinity will change, the relative concentrations of salts do not change.
> Absolute concentrations DO change, however. In other words, if, for instance,
> you have a one gallon solution containing 20% calcium and 0.1% sodium, adding a
> pint of pure water to the solution will not change the concentration of one salt
> relative to the other. You will still have the same amount of calcium relative
> to sodium. However, the total concentration of the solution will be reduced
> because you've diluted the solution. This is the same for just about any
> dissolved solid.
>
>
I don't know if I really consider it a problem per-se, but going more
slowly on top-ups is definitly a god idea. All I started doing was
doing top ups twice a day. I understand what you are saying about
chemistry and absolute concentrations, I was refering more to all the
extra stuff in the tap water. I am sure this would change the overall
chemistry over a period of only top-ups.
You say you mix water in slowly in your sump, I would do that if I had
one! I have a pretty basic setup (skimmer, tank, lights, heater, fish.)
and do add directly to my tank. I have a sort of glass 'stopper' that I
pour the water on and it disperses from there-usually in the jet's
stream which spreads it around.


--


--> GNU/Linux is user friendly... it's just picky about its friends.

[george]

"Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
> george wrote:
>> "Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>george wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Steve Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Joe Cool wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I just test my salt level and found that it is below were I want it. My
>>>>>>question is when you increase the salt level should this be done very
>>>>>>slowly, like over a month or can I do this in a shorter time like a week?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am no pro - still fairly new to this but from what I have learned/been
>>>>>told, do not change it more than 1 point a day ie... 1.023-1.024 or 1.025
>>>>>to 1.024. This would of course depend on what you have in there. I had
>>>>>( :( ) a starfish and he would get really cranky on a half a point a day.
>>>>>With him in there I would do a point over about 3 days (this does not
>>>>>include top-ups for evaporation). He didn't seem to mind that to much.
>>>>>All my other stuff in there, polyps, Hammer coral, inverts, clowns etc...
>>>>>don't seem terribly bothered by a point jump over the period of a day (drop
>>>>>it a few ticks every few hours...).
>>>>>
>>>>>S.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hmmm. I have a green brittle star and he never seemed to be bothered by
>>>>much of anything, much less by a salinity change of 0.001.
>>>
>>>Hey,
>>>
>>>I agree it does not seem like much, but my Red Linkia would 'run' when the
>>>water came in. If I went with more of a top up, the ends of each arm would
>>>curl up. In the end, somthing got a piece of him, he lost a leg and had
>>>battle scars all over... until he (?) eventually died. With what I have in
>>>there now, I can drop it two to three points (does not happen to often) and
>>>all that will happen is my clowns look a little irritated, and my Hammer
>>>Coral will pull in a little. I believe that a small top up will not only
>>>decrease salinity, but changes other things like trace elements, nitrates
>>>(good thing though on this) etc...
>>>all this for some things living in tanks might be even a little stressful.
>>>Not saying that salinity can't be dropped more at once safely, just not
>>>comfortably!
>>>
>>>S.
>>>--
>>
>>
>> If you are having these problems, I suggest that perhaps you are pouring maku
>> up water in too quickly. Try doing it more slowly, over a longer period of
>> time. I never add water directly to the tank. I always mix it very slowly in
>> the sump. As for changing the chemistry, you have to remember this:
>> although the salinity will change, the relative concentrations of salts do
>> not change. Absolute concentrations DO change, however. In other words, if,
>> for instance, you have a one gallon solution containing 20% calcium and 0.1%
>> sodium, adding a pint of pure water to the solution will not change the
>> concentration of one salt relative to the other. You will still have the
>> same amount of calcium relative to sodium. However, the total concentration
>> of the solution will be reduced because you've diluted the solution. This is
>> the same for just about any dissolved solid.
> I don't know if I really consider it a problem per-se, but going more slowly
> on top-ups is definitly a god idea. All I started doing was doing top ups
> twice a day. I understand what you are saying about chemistry and absolute
> concentrations, I was refering more to all the extra stuff in the tap water.
> I am sure this would change the overall chemistry over a period of only
> top-ups.
> You say you mix water in slowly in your sump, I would do that if I had one! I
> have a pretty basic setup (skimmer, tank, lights, heater, fish.) and do add
> directly to my tank. I have a sort of glass 'stopper' that I pour the water
> on and it disperses from there-usually in the jet's stream which spreads it
> around.
>
>

If you are using tap water, then obviously you are adding things to your tank
water other than pure water. I understand if you have no other source, but
using tap water in a salt water set up is not advisable. Perhaps you should
test your water to see what is in it.

[~]

> If you are using tap water, then obviously you are adding things to your
tank
> water other than pure water. I understand if you have no other source,
but
> using tap water in a salt water set up is not advisable. Perhaps you
should
> test your water to see what is in it.
>
>

I aerate 5 gallons of water for a 48 hours and then add my salt to get the
desired specific gravity. Once it is ready for use, I take out what I need
and add to the sump. I continue to aerate the remainder until used up and
start the process over. This seems to work well.

[george]

"~" > wrote in message
...
>
>> If you are using tap water, then obviously you are adding things to your
> tank
>> water other than pure water. I understand if you have no other source,
> but
>> using tap water in a salt water set up is not advisable. Perhaps you
> should
>> test your water to see what is in it.
>>
>>
>
> I aerate 5 gallons of water for a 48 hours and then add my salt to get the
> desired specific gravity. Once it is ready for use, I take out what I need
> and add to the sump. I continue to aerate the remainder until used up and
> start the process over. This seems to work well.
>

Aeration will get rid of chlorine. It is unlikely to do much for chloramine,
and does nothing for the nitrate and phosphorus content of your tap water, nor
does it do anything for dissolved or suspended solids. Again, you should test
your tap water so that you know what is in it.