Acclimating Fish - wide pH range

[Dan White]

Well, I bought two large - humongous angel fish last week for $6 each (1/2
price)! The LFS guy said don't be surprised if they die because they just
arrived from Florida and the big ones don't usually make it. So 3 days
later they are both dead and I get my refund. So now I'm thinking I'll just
get little angels and grow my own rather than trying to find big inexpensive
ones.

At another LFS I find a school of little nickel size angels for $2.24 each.
They had been in the store for 2 weeks and looked alert and healthy. I buy
three striped ones. I check the water quality in the bag and find it is off
the scale low in pH, probably about a 5 or 5.5 (it was pure yellow). The
water was softish. My water is pH 7.3, hard and alkaline. So now I'm
gearing up for a 2 pH unit swing! Anyway since these were small fish I
figured an extended acclimation time in the bag wouldn't stress them out.
Three hours later I put them in the tank. They took to eating food almost
immediately... in fact I fed them a few flakes in the bag, too. Today they
look happy in their new 55g home and I don't expect to need any body bags.
I was surprised they underwent such a large pH swing and had what looks like
no impact on their behavior at all. It almost looks as if I could have just
dumped these fish in with no acclimation at all.

Anyway I wasn't sure such a large pH swing could be navigated safely, but it
seems like it can.

dwhite

[NetMax]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought two large - humongous angel fish last week for $6 each
> (1/2
> price)! The LFS guy said don't be surprised if they die because they
> just
> arrived from Florida and the big ones don't usually make it. So 3 days
> later they are both dead and I get my refund. So now I'm thinking I'll
> just
> get little angels and grow my own rather than trying to find big
> inexpensive
> ones.
>
> At another LFS I find a school of little nickel size angels for $2.24
> each.
> They had been in the store for 2 weeks and looked alert and healthy. I
> buy
> three striped ones. I check the water quality in the bag and find it
> is off
> the scale low in pH, probably about a 5 or 5.5 (it was pure yellow).
> The
> water was softish. My water is pH 7.3, hard and alkaline. So now I'm
> gearing up for a 2 pH unit swing! Anyway since these were small fish I
> figured an extended acclimation time in the bag wouldn't stress them
> out.
> Three hours later I put them in the tank. They took to eating food
> almost
> immediately... in fact I fed them a few flakes in the bag, too. Today
> they
> look happy in their new 55g home and I don't expect to need any body
> bags.
> I was surprised they underwent such a large pH swing and had what looks
> like
> no impact on their behavior at all. It almost looks as if I could have
> just
> dumped these fish in with no acclimation at all.
>
> Anyway I wasn't sure such a large pH swing could be navigated safely,
> but it
> seems like it can.
>
> dwhite


There is a school of thought that acclimation stress on fish is mainly
due to osmotic pressure differences (rather than pH). From various
reports, if the source & destination water is comparable in hardness DOCs
and temperature, then pH 'appears' to be a non-issue.

Note that a large difference in pH is indicative of a large difference in
the water's alkalinity (assuming comparable CO2 levels), and this usually
goes hand in hand with a large difference in the water's hardness, so you
are now back to a difference in osmotic pressure (which is your root
cause, rather than the pH).

Also note that you want the source & destination water to be free of NH3,
NO2 and the difference in nitrates (NO3) to be minimal (the smaller the
fish, the more susceptible they seem to be to differences in NO3). Note
that while low NO3 is considered non-toxic, a rapid change in even low
NO3 levels is a stressor. Ironically a small fish can be killed or
injured by being suddenly moved into 'cleaner' water (ie: from 40ppm NO3
to zero ppm NO3).

Just my limited observations : )
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Robert Flory]

A lot of locally breed angels seem to be tolerate to higher pHs. I know a
local breeded who breeds them in pH 7 water right out of the tap, treated
for chloramines of course.

Bob


"Dan White" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I bought two large - humongous angel fish last week for $6 each (1/2
> price)! The LFS guy said don't be surprised if they die because they just
> arrived from Florida and the big ones don't usually make it. So 3 days
> later they are both dead and I get my refund. So now I'm thinking I'll
> just
> get little angels and grow my own rather than trying to find big
> inexpensive
> ones.
>
> At another LFS I find a school of little nickel size angels for $2.24
> each.
> They had been in the store for 2 weeks and looked alert and healthy. I
> buy
> three striped ones. I check the water quality in the bag and find it is
> off
> the scale low in pH, probably about a 5 or 5.5 (it was pure yellow). The
> water was softish. My water is pH 7.3, hard and alkaline. So now I'm
> gearing up for a 2 pH unit swing! Anyway since these were small fish I
> figured an extended acclimation time in the bag wouldn't stress them out.
> Three hours later I put them in the tank. They took to eating food almost
> immediately... in fact I fed them a few flakes in the bag, too. Today
> they
> look happy in their new 55g home and I don't expect to need any body bags.
> I was surprised they underwent such a large pH swing and had what looks
> like
> no impact on their behavior at all. It almost looks as if I could have
> just
> dumped these fish in with no acclimation at all.
>
> Anyway I wasn't sure such a large pH swing could be navigated safely, but
> it
> seems like it can.
>
> dwhite
>
>

[Dan White]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..

>
> There is a school of thought that acclimation stress on fish is mainly
> due to osmotic pressure differences (rather than pH). From various
> reports, if the source & destination water is comparable in hardness DOCs
> and temperature, then pH 'appears' to be a non-issue.

DOC? My water is hard and the original water was on the soft side, but not
extreme. My tap water is very hard but I think the aged tank water is a
little less so, but I don't have an exact figure as I'm only going on the
colors.


> Also note that you want the source & destination water to be free of NH3,
> NO2 and the difference in nitrates (NO3) to be minimal (the smaller the
> fish, the more susceptible they seem to be to differences in NO3). Note
> that while low NO3 is considered non-toxic, a rapid change in even low
> NO3 levels is a stressor. Ironically a small fish can be killed or
> injured by being suddenly moved into 'cleaner' water (ie: from 40ppm NO3
> to zero ppm NO3).

That is interesting. I did note that the nitrate level in both water
samples (the fish store vs mine) was similar.

thanks,
dwhite