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Larry Blanchard
December 20th 04, 06:13 AM
OK, a rehash of my trials and tribulations as a beginning aquarist.
Almost a beginner anyway, I did have two goldfish for several years as a
child :-).

As I've mentioned in earlier posts, we got 2 bettas and put them in a 10
gallon tank, separated by one of those commercial tank dividers. Had a
heater in one side, a filter in the other, EcoComplete for a substrate,
and lots of live plants.

First problem, one of the bettas was panicked by the filter current, so
I had to turn it way down. Of course, then the current didn't get
through the small holes in the divider.

Then we got two otos, one for each side, to hold down the algae. Found
out my bettas like sinking algae wafers almost as well as their own
betta food :-).

The panicky betta got psychotic after the filter stopped panicking him,
and spent all his time trying to find a way through the divider. He was
even digging at the base of it. So I moved him into his own little 2.5
gallon tank.

Got a cheap mini-heater at Walmart for the little tank. Besides the
fact that it ran all the time and therefore the water temp went down at
night when the house temp did, it only lasted 10 days before it quit
altogether. Replaced it with a 25watt "Thermal Compact" from Hagen.
That one's still working, but it sure is a pain to adjust.

I thought I could do without a filter, since it panicked the betta, but
he developed a liking for a flake food instead of the Hikari pellets he
used to accept, and some of the flakes wound up on the bottom, so I got
a cory to clean up the bottom. They take turns chasing each other and
yes, the betta likes catfish food too :-).

Back to the 10 gallon. It now had only one betta and 2 otos in it, so I
got one male and 3 female platys. Yep, you guessed it - that betta
likes the floating algae flakes I feed the platys. So much so he's
actually taken a flake away from a platy who had it in its mouth, and
nipped at the platys to keep them away from the food.

The platys are great. The otos are great and so is the catfish. I'm
coming to believe that buying the @#$^%! bettas is one of the dumbest
things I ever did (and at 67 there's a long list to choose from), but
I'm too softhearted to flush them.

So I'm going to one more iteration. I'm getting a 5.5 gallon tank and
splitting it for the two bettas. This time I plan on trying a variation
on somthing a poster to this group told me about. I'll put a divider of
plastic canvas lengthwise about 2 inches from the back wall. That'll
make room for the heater. Then I'll put a solid divider between the two
halves so the bettas can't see each other. I think convection will
spread the heat through the canvas holes.

In case the convection isn't sufficient, I think I could put one of
those hang on the back filters where the water flows over a lip and
straight down in without generating enough current to panic the one
betta.

And absolute worst case, I could put about an inch of plastic canvas in
place of the front inch of solid divider and get more circulation with a
Duetto filter turned way down, but I'd almost rather go to daily water
changes than let the psycho betta see the other one :-).

Another possibility would be to forget the heater. Bettas seem to
survive fairly well without heat, but the ones I've seen are pretty
sluggish at room temperature.

So; any comments on that setup and its variations?

And just to have something positive to report, the plants are doing
great! The dwarf sag and pygmy chain swords are putting out runners,
the java fern has baby plants on almost every leaf, and the milfoil is
growing faster than the platys can eat it. Guess I'm a better gardener
than an aquarist. Of course I've been doing out-of-water gardening for
many decades :-).

BTW, I was at Petco today and say a book on the rack that was all on
bettas. Well, I did quite a bit of reading on the subject before we got
these two, but I'm always looking for more info. So I picked up the
book and turned to the chapter on feeding just to see what it said.

I can't quote it exactly, but one sentence went something like "Bettas
are timid feeders and often wait till all other fish in the aquarium
have had their fill." HAH! No, I didn't throw the book on the floor
and stomp on it, but it was tempting :-).

Merry/Happy/Joyous/Super/etc. winter solstice festival to you all.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Billy
December 20th 04, 06:29 AM
"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
|
| I can't quote it exactly, but one sentence went something like
"Bettas
| are timid feeders and often wait till all other fish in the
aquarium
| have had their fill." HAH! No, I didn't throw the book on the
floor
| and stomp on it, but it was tempting :-).
|

Hence the adage "YMMV"- Your mileage may vary, eh? I have a yellow
tang that refuses to eat seaweed, prefers brine shrimp. I'm coming to
realize that 99.5% of things considered 'facts' in the aquaria
"hobby" are anecdotal, and subject to modification or outright
revocation at a moments notice. <g>

Mary Burns
December 20th 04, 11:13 AM
You will have platy fry with a male and females at some time...from my
original male and 2 females, I now have 23 even with 2 angels who help keep
numbers down. As far as "the Book" goes, well, I think the same...I could
rewrite it about platies, clowns, cories, tetra etc!!! I think it is really
how individual fish respond to their surroundings eg, as 3 platies were
first, my peppered cories loved them and sulked when the platies were moved
to bigger tank. The cories had been so good to endless platy fry, that they
were not nocturnal, up all day with the rest. After they sulked, I added
clowns and a couple more cories, thinking they needed company...I was
wrong..they wanted platies...out they came again, up all day and so active.
I think this was because I added very small peppered cories who found their
platy tank mates to be really nice to them and so they felt safe..and they
needed that to thrive rather than survive. I also had a male betta who has
to be alone, he chased and bullied my lovely male platy who was removed to
stop the endless fry, as recommended by LFS. But now, all the platies are
together by colour...with so many, I found the sunset platies picking on the
redwags. I tried seperating by all male and all female but that didn't work
either. I found my girls remembered the male after being seperated for 3
months and have chosen to make their own trio..the girls stay with him, and
won't let him stray...extraordinary behavior.
So, I think we just have to grow with our fish, and observe what they are
trying to tell us, and hopefully get it right!!! I have had to respond as
all those fry got older..and turned into 50 percent male and female adults
(supposed to be 90 percent female in book)who are beautiful.As far as food
is concerned, they all eat each others, and my cories arrive 3 times a day
for food...(as I always have platy fry in the tank who need lunch)with the
clowns who are so boisterous all day long. Mary
"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> OK, a rehash of my trials and tribulations as a beginning aquarist.
> Almost a beginner anyway, I did have two goldfish for several years as a
> child :-).
>
> As I've mentioned in earlier posts, we got 2 bettas and put them in a 10
> gallon tank, separated by one of those commercial tank dividers. Had a
> heater in one side, a filter in the other, EcoComplete for a substrate,
> and lots of live plants.
>
> First problem, one of the bettas was panicked by the filter current, so
> I had to turn it way down. Of course, then the current didn't get
> through the small holes in the divider.
>
> Then we got two otos, one for each side, to hold down the algae. Found
> out my bettas like sinking algae wafers almost as well as their own
> betta food :-).
>
> The panicky betta got psychotic after the filter stopped panicking him,
> and spent all his time trying to find a way through the divider. He was
> even digging at the base of it. So I moved him into his own little 2.5
> gallon tank.
>
> Got a cheap mini-heater at Walmart for the little tank. Besides the
> fact that it ran all the time and therefore the water temp went down at
> night when the house temp did, it only lasted 10 days before it quit
> altogether. Replaced it with a 25watt "Thermal Compact" from Hagen.
> That one's still working, but it sure is a pain to adjust.
>
> I thought I could do without a filter, since it panicked the betta, but
> he developed a liking for a flake food instead of the Hikari pellets he
> used to accept, and some of the flakes wound up on the bottom, so I got
> a cory to clean up the bottom. They take turns chasing each other and
> yes, the betta likes catfish food too :-).
>
> Back to the 10 gallon. It now had only one betta and 2 otos in it, so I
> got one male and 3 female platys. Yep, you guessed it - that betta
> likes the floating algae flakes I feed the platys. So much so he's
> actually taken a flake away from a platy who had it in its mouth, and
> nipped at the platys to keep them away from the food.
>
> The platys are great. The otos are great and so is the catfish. I'm
> coming to believe that buying the @#$^%! bettas is one of the dumbest
> things I ever did (and at 67 there's a long list to choose from), but
> I'm too softhearted to flush them.
>
> So I'm going to one more iteration. I'm getting a 5.5 gallon tank and
> splitting it for the two bettas. This time I plan on trying a variation
> on somthing a poster to this group told me about. I'll put a divider of
> plastic canvas lengthwise about 2 inches from the back wall. That'll
> make room for the heater. Then I'll put a solid divider between the two
> halves so the bettas can't see each other. I think convection will
> spread the heat through the canvas holes.
>
> In case the convection isn't sufficient, I think I could put one of
> those hang on the back filters where the water flows over a lip and
> straight down in without generating enough current to panic the one
> betta.
>
> And absolute worst case, I could put about an inch of plastic canvas in
> place of the front inch of solid divider and get more circulation with a
> Duetto filter turned way down, but I'd almost rather go to daily water
> changes than let the psycho betta see the other one :-).
>
> Another possibility would be to forget the heater. Bettas seem to
> survive fairly well without heat, but the ones I've seen are pretty
> sluggish at room temperature.
>
> So; any comments on that setup and its variations?
>
> And just to have something positive to report, the plants are doing
> great! The dwarf sag and pygmy chain swords are putting out runners,
> the java fern has baby plants on almost every leaf, and the milfoil is
> growing faster than the platys can eat it. Guess I'm a better gardener
> than an aquarist. Of course I've been doing out-of-water gardening for
> many decades :-).
>
> BTW, I was at Petco today and say a book on the rack that was all on
> bettas. Well, I did quite a bit of reading on the subject before we got
> these two, but I'm always looking for more info. So I picked up the
> book and turned to the chapter on feeding just to see what it said.
>
> I can't quote it exactly, but one sentence went something like "Bettas
> are timid feeders and often wait till all other fish in the aquarium
> have had their fill." HAH! No, I didn't throw the book on the floor
> and stomp on it, but it was tempting :-).
>
> Merry/Happy/Joyous/Super/etc. winter solstice festival to you all.
>
> --
> Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

IDzine01
December 20th 04, 03:29 PM
Well, if it makes you feel any better, my bettas are just like yours.
Well, some of them anyway. I have two now that are great eaters and
only eat what I give them, but I have others that will eat anything you
put in the tank no matter who it's designated for. I found that my
betta will be less tempted to eat fresh veggies over algae wafers so I
now feed my otos cucumbers, lettuce and their favorite, zucchini. I cut
a slice and heat it in the microwave in a mug of water for 2 minutes
until it's soft and sinks. Then I run it under cold water and stick it
in the tank. It'll sink to the bottom and the otos will eat it. The
betta may pick here and there but they don't gorge themselves like they
do on flake, pellet or algae wafers.


Your new set up sounds pretty good. Although, if you're getting a 5
gal, why don't you just give that to one male betta and leave the other
in the two gallon? The five gallon can easily be cycled and it'll give
your betta more room. It's probably better then splitting such a small
tank. (and the fish will be happier)

Filters are optional. Either you keep the filter and cycle the tank
(Don't cycle with the bettas, they are not hardy enough and often
suffer or die) or don't bother with the filter and do 100% water
changes instead. The heater, however, is not optional. They are
tropical and need the heat to be stable and around 78*. If the temp
falls below 75* they stress and their immune systems weaken. Less then
70* and they could die. There's little point in spending all the money
on fish and tanks just to put them in cool water that will eventually
kill them. Plus, what fun is it to watch a sick and listless fish?

Well I hope this helps. Do let us know what you ultimately decide. And
thank you for not flushing a live fish. I can't even imagine it. If
worst comes to worst, a local aquarium society or pet shop will take
him. Even a humane society will take your fish over the alternative.

Larry Blanchard
December 20th 04, 06:33 PM
In article . com>,
says...
>
> Your new set up sounds pretty good. Although, if you're getting a 5
> gal, why don't you just give that to one male betta and leave the other
> in the two gallon?

Because I don't have room for both of them.

>
> Filters are optional. Either you keep the filter and cycle the tank
> (Don't cycle with the bettas, they are not hardy enough and often
> suffer or die) or don't bother with the filter and do 100% water
> changes instead. The heater, however, is not optional. They are
> tropical and need the heat to be stable and around 78*.

I agree on the heat, but I will point out that my daughter has 3 bettas
in large bowls without heat and they've lived for 2 years so far. And
they've gotten quite large on one pellet twice a day. Bettas do seem to
vary a lot :-).

With 100% water change, do you preheat he new water? If not I'd think
the temperature change would be too stressful.

>
> Well I hope this helps. Do let us know what you ultimately decide. And
> thank you for not flushing a live fish.

Well, I probably would have found a more humane method :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

IDzine01
December 20th 04, 06:57 PM
>Because I don't have room for both of them.

Well, I understand that. The upside to splitting the 5 gal is you can
store the 2 gal away and use it when you need a hospital tank. So there
is that added advantage to your original idea.

>With 100% water change, do you preheat he new water? If not I'd think
>the temperature change would be too stressful.

Yes. Before I cycled tanks (well even now at partial water changes) I
would take the thermometer out of the tank and put it into my fresh
water bucket and match the tap water temp to that of the tank water.
(to the degree) I use a combination of Kordon's Amquel and NovAqua to
condition the water and then immediately add it to the tank. Of course,
I would check the pH and all that jazz too. ;-) As long as your tank pH
and your tap pH are close you can do the water change right away.

BUT:
Some people leave their tap water out overnight because their pH is too
high and they need it to sit to come down. I know one woman who heats
her water up in the microwave at water change time to a perfect 78*. I
haven't tried this method because I would have too much water to
change, but it works for small tanks.

PERSONALLY:
I recommend cycling your 5 gal. It's less work and less money for you.
I'm a big fan of both.

Oh, by the way... 67 and so internet savvy. Very impressive. My boss
can't work a cell phone and he's 63 tops.

Vicki PS
December 20th 04, 10:00 PM
To endorse the above suggestions:

1. Definitely cycle the 5 gallon
2. The 25 watt Hagen heater will be fine: use it. Bettas really don't do
well with temperature fluctuations
3. Your plan for dividing the 5 gallon sounds fine, and in my experience it
will give both fish plenty of room. Be really certain that there are no
gaps more than a few millimetres around your dividers (especially the
commercial ones that attach with suction caps): bettas are determined
critters. And be sure only to fill the tank to a couple of inches below the
top of the dividers. Good luck!

Vicki PS

Larry Blanchard
December 21st 04, 01:24 AM
In article om>,
says...
> Oh, by the way... 67 and so internet savvy. Very impressive. My boss
> can't work a cell phone and he's 63 tops.
>
I have an unfair advantage - I started programming computers when they
were still made with vacuum tubes (50s) :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description