wattage for plant growth

[Mandy]

Hey guys,

I have a 37 gallon eclipse that I want to plant extensively. I was
advised by my LFS to buy two new "special" bulbs - they're 20 watts
each and apparently give off some sort of bluish light that should also
accent the colors of the fish.

He's also the guy who told me that you can't do a fishless cycle...

Did I spend my money well or should I return the lights for credit?
Thanks!

[2pods]

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hey guys,
>
> I have a 37 gallon eclipse that I want to plant extensively. I was
> advised by my LFS to buy two new "special" bulbs - they're 20 watts
> each and apparently give off some sort of bluish light that should also
> accent the colors of the fish.
>
> He's also the guy who told me that you can't do a fishless cycle...
>
> Did I spend my money well or should I return the lights for credit?
> Thanks!

I thought it was usually one plant light, and one fish light ?
One is kind of yellow-ish (daylight kind of thing), and the other is cool
white.
Blue lights sound more like a marine tube.

Have you got reflectors in the hood ?
They can help.

Peter



Peter
>

[Brian S.]

I don't think that 20 watts is going to do it for a 37 gallon tank.

Typically, you will want to have AT LEAST two watts per gallon if you are
going to do live plants. Even with only two watts a gallon, that is still
pushing it quite a bit. Many plants even require up to 4-5 watts per gallon
to keep them happy.

While it is possible to grow plants like java ferns under only the 20-40
watts you will have on the tank, you will be very limited in the type of
plants you can have.

Brian S.
"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hey guys,
>
> I have a 37 gallon eclipse that I want to plant extensively. I was
> advised by my LFS to buy two new "special" bulbs - they're 20 watts
> each and apparently give off some sort of bluish light that should also
> accent the colors of the fish.
>
> He's also the guy who told me that you can't do a fishless cycle...
>
> Did I spend my money well or should I return the lights for credit?
> Thanks!
>

[Mandy]

Okay, these are coralife 20,000K High intensity purified super daylight
lamps "with rare earch color enhancing phosphors" whatever that
means... lol I don't have reflectors, I don't think. Nothing in
there is reflecting...

Anyway it's whatever came standard. And the little sign where you put
the bulbs in says "replace with eclipse or any 18 florescent light up
to 18 watts."

Does the first 18 mean 18 inches? If so, my lfs sold me 24 inch bulbs.
they certainly don't look 6 inches longer than what I have tho. More
importantly, can I put higher wattage in there regardless of what it
says?

[Mandy]

Another question - the heater that came with the tank is 200 watts -
will that be enough for a 37 gallon tank? Advice on placement?
Does the heater need to be hooked up for fishless (or any) cycling?

[Margolis]

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Okay, these are coralife 20,000K High intensity purified super daylight
> lamps "with rare earch color enhancing phosphors" whatever that
> means... lol I don't have reflectors, I don't think. Nothing in
> there is reflecting...
>
> Anyway it's whatever came standard. And the little sign where you put
> the bulbs in says "replace with eclipse or any 18 florescent light up
> to 18 watts."
>
> Does the first 18 mean 18 inches? If so, my lfs sold me 24 inch bulbs.
> they certainly don't look 6 inches longer than what I have tho. More
> importantly, can I put higher wattage in there regardless of what it
> says?
>


those are absolutely the wrong bulbs. Freshwater plants need bulbs in the
6500K range. 20,000k is absolutely worthless for plants. If that is what
you bought, return them immediately and tell this guy he is an idiot and
shouldn't be in the aquarium business. Then promptly go out and find a
better store, one where they will actually sell you what you need and give
you correct information.


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Ozdude]

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Does the first 18 mean 18 inches? If so, my lfs sold me 24 inch bulbs.
> they certainly don't look 6 inches longer than what I have tho. More
> importantly, can I put higher wattage in there regardless of what it
> says?


18 watts I'd say. It's a function of what the ballast can handle up to.

You should try to match the ballast with the lamps or there could be trouble
later.

18W tubes for 18W ballasts.

Oz

[Brian S.]

A 200 watt heater is fine for your tank. I have a 55 gallon and am running
a 150 watt heater. While it doesn't exactly keep up all that great, it does
work.

So, being you have 50 watts more than me and about 20 less gallons, you are
good to go.

Brian S.

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Another question - the heater that came with the tank is 200 watts -
> will that be enough for a 37 gallon tank? Advice on placement?
> Does the heater need to be hooked up for fishless (or any) cycling?
>

[NetMax]

"Margolis" > wrote in message
...
> "Mandy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Okay, these are coralife 20,000K High intensity purified super
>> daylight
>> lamps "with rare earch color enhancing phosphors" whatever that
>> means... lol I don't have reflectors, I don't think. Nothing in
>> there is reflecting...
>>
>> Anyway it's whatever came standard. And the little sign where you put
>> the bulbs in says "replace with eclipse or any 18 florescent light up
>> to 18 watts."
>>
>> Does the first 18 mean 18 inches? If so, my lfs sold me 24 inch
>> bulbs.
>> they certainly don't look 6 inches longer than what I have tho. More
>> importantly, can I put higher wattage in there regardless of what it
>> says?
>>
>
>
> those are absolutely the wrong bulbs. Freshwater plants need bulbs in
> the
> 6500K range. 20,000k is absolutely worthless for plants. If that is
> what
> you bought, return them immediately and tell this guy he is an idiot
> and
> shouldn't be in the aquarium business. Then promptly go out and find a
> better store, one where they will actually sell you what you need and
> give
> you correct information.
>
>
> --
>
> Margolis
> http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
> http://www.unrealtower.org/faq


On lights, I'd go with what Margolis said. I think that natural sunlight
is around 5,000K, so that should give you an idea of what your plants are
expecting. One clue, coralife is for corals (marine, not freshwater).

Generally, the wattage is determined by the length of the tube, so if it
fits, you will probably be ok. Just check the ratings, as there is a
small variation possible with some of the fixtures.

On heaters, figure about 5 watts per gallon, so your 200w is fine.
Install it anywhere there is good water circulation. You want it on when
cycling. The exact sub-species of nitrifying bacteria promoted will
correspond to your water's parameters and temperature, so keep your
conditions representative (except for light, as tanks cycle better
without strong light as the bacteria is damaged by ultra-violet when they
are in your water column). I know.. TMI ;~).

--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mandy]

Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...

If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
growth or will I have to replace the whole top?

Thanks again!

[Glenn]

The K refers to its Kelvin temperature rating, which is used as an
indication of its color output. It is not the actual temperature of the
bulb, just its color output. Sunlight is about 5000k. The marine bulbs
shift to higher temperatures because they are trying to emulate the sunlight
at a certain depth of water. Higher temp light is usually whiter up through
about 10000k and starts to look bluer up thru about 20000k.

I have been using a 10000k bulb because I liked the color of the tank, and
did not realize that plants did not like it. I guess I know why I have a
brown thumb now... Perhaps I should get a 5000-6500k bulb and give that a
try...

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
> be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
> the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
> more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...
>
> If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
> 18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
> growth or will I have to replace the whole top?
>
> Thanks again!
>

[Ozdude]

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
> be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
> the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
> more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...

"k" is degrees Kelvin, and relates to colour temperature. Do certain lights
look tinted to you when you look at them? Like pinky, or bluey, green-ish
etc? That's the degrees Kelvin. The higher this number the more likely it is
be blue or blue white. It has nothing at all to do with the power of, or
consumption of the lamp itself - that is always expressed in W or
watts/hour.

What is more important to aquaria is the CRI, or Colour Rending Index - this
number is expressed as anything up to and including 100. CRI 100 is
sunlight, so if you get a tube which is 18W, 5000K and has a CRI of 92, then
you'd be well on the way to a general aquarium light that would make your
fish look good, and probably grow plants well.

It is quite common in Europe and especially Holland to have CRI of the low
70's , and 2700 or 3600K lights which look very "red" or a bit yellow
compared to the lights I use which are 2 X 6500K 9W - CRI 78 - Compact
Fluoro: This will be fixed up when I get my new tank in January, to 2 X 36W,
5000K CRI 92 T8's, and if I don't see neon neons and pearling plants....just
joking...it's actually a tune it as you run it thing ;)
>
> If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
> 18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
> growth or will I have to replace the whole top?

No just buy tubes that are the right size. All this stuff is standardised so
a 12" long light (as an example) will usually be 18W or around there. The
ballast is hidden from you but it looks like a transformer and is part of
the light, but not the whole fitting.

Just look for or ask for tubes which have peaky output in the blue and red.
The Hagen AquaGlo, for instance is one of these types of tubes, but so is
the NEC HG and Philips Aquarelle, which can be had from any general hardware
store these days.

You would only replace the whole light hood if the ballast failed, which it
hasn't because you can put new tubes in it and they light up! ;)

All the best,

Oz

[tim]

Hi Mandy,
I'll jump in here and give you my few cents. I've been keeping planted tanks
for the last couple of years.

My first suggestion would be to do much more research on the net before
jumping into an "extensively" planted tank. It sounds to me like your LFS
guy really doesn't have the knowledge. Secondly, try to plan ahead on what
types of plants you would like and the amount of time, money and effort
you're willing to spend.

I suggest this because these are the factors that will determine what type
of lighting you will need. If you would like to keep "low light, low
demanding" plants then you can probably get away with about 1 watt per
gallon. If you want venture into more demanding plants, you will need to
increase the amount of light. BUT, then as you increase light you must begin
to consider the increased demand for nutrients, which opens up the doors of
adding fertilizers, supplementing CO2 and several other factors. And, with
these elements you will need learn the balancing act to keep your plants
out-competing algae for these elements.

As far as Kelvin goes, for planted tanks I have read people having success
with anything between 5000K and 10000K. People usually choose based on
personal preference on the color tint they give off. Lower numbers tend to
be more yellow and higher numbers tend to be more blue (generally speaking).
Within this range it will have little difference on plant growth, wattage
and duration of light will have greater effects.

I have just under 3 watts per gallon (6700K), I add CO2 using the DIY yeast
method, and dose fertilizers once a week. Here are some pics:
http://www.jennaandtim.com/tank/

Some places to begin research:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
http://www.plantgeek.net/


good, have fun

Tim

"Mandy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
> be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
> the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
> more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...
>
> If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
> 18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
> growth or will I have to replace the whole top?
>
> Thanks again!
>

[luminos]

What happened between 03 and 04? November 03 is great.

"tim" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Hi Mandy,
> I'll jump in here and give you my few cents. I've been keeping planted
> tanks
> for the last couple of years.
>
> My first suggestion would be to do much more research on the net before
> jumping into an "extensively" planted tank. It sounds to me like your LFS
> guy really doesn't have the knowledge. Secondly, try to plan ahead on what
> types of plants you would like and the amount of time, money and effort
> you're willing to spend.
>
> I suggest this because these are the factors that will determine what type
> of lighting you will need. If you would like to keep "low light, low
> demanding" plants then you can probably get away with about 1 watt per
> gallon. If you want venture into more demanding plants, you will need to
> increase the amount of light. BUT, then as you increase light you must
> begin
> to consider the increased demand for nutrients, which opens up the doors
> of
> adding fertilizers, supplementing CO2 and several other factors. And, with
> these elements you will need learn the balancing act to keep your plants
> out-competing algae for these elements.
>
> As far as Kelvin goes, for planted tanks I have read people having success
> with anything between 5000K and 10000K. People usually choose based on
> personal preference on the color tint they give off. Lower numbers tend
> to
> be more yellow and higher numbers tend to be more blue (generally
> speaking).
> Within this range it will have little difference on plant growth, wattage
> and duration of light will have greater effects.
>
> I have just under 3 watts per gallon (6700K), I add CO2 using the DIY
> yeast
> method, and dose fertilizers once a week. Here are some pics:
> http://www.jennaandtim.com/tank/
>
> Some places to begin research:
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
> http://www.plantgeek.net/
>
>
> good, have fun
>
> Tim
>
> "Mandy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
>> be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
>> the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
>> more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...
>>
>> If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
>> 18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
>> growth or will I have to replace the whole top?
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>
>

[Nikki Casali]

Tim,

What's the plant on the right in November '03? I had a tiny leaf of this
hitchhike on a plant I bought over a month ago. I stuck it in the sand
substrate out of curiosity. It is now threatening to take over my
aquarium! It grow so fast. Branches keep unfurling every other day. Is
it some type of Hygrophila?

Regards,

Nikki

tim wrote:
> Hi Mandy,
> I'll jump in here and give you my few cents. I've been keeping planted tanks
> for the last couple of years.
>
> My first suggestion would be to do much more research on the net before
> jumping into an "extensively" planted tank. It sounds to me like your LFS
> guy really doesn't have the knowledge. Secondly, try to plan ahead on what
> types of plants you would like and the amount of time, money and effort
> you're willing to spend.
>
> I suggest this because these are the factors that will determine what type
> of lighting you will need. If you would like to keep "low light, low
> demanding" plants then you can probably get away with about 1 watt per
> gallon. If you want venture into more demanding plants, you will need to
> increase the amount of light. BUT, then as you increase light you must begin
> to consider the increased demand for nutrients, which opens up the doors of
> adding fertilizers, supplementing CO2 and several other factors. And, with
> these elements you will need learn the balancing act to keep your plants
> out-competing algae for these elements.
>
> As far as Kelvin goes, for planted tanks I have read people having success
> with anything between 5000K and 10000K. People usually choose based on
> personal preference on the color tint they give off. Lower numbers tend to
> be more yellow and higher numbers tend to be more blue (generally speaking).
> Within this range it will have little difference on plant growth, wattage
> and duration of light will have greater effects.
>
> I have just under 3 watts per gallon (6700K), I add CO2 using the DIY yeast
> method, and dose fertilizers once a week. Here are some pics:
> http://www.jennaandtim.com/tank/
>
> Some places to begin research:
> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
> http://www.plantgeek.net/
>
>
> good, have fun
>
> Tim
>
> "Mandy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
>>be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
>>the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
>>more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...
>>
>>If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
>>18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
>>growth or will I have to replace the whole top?
>>
>>Thanks again!
>>
>
>
>

[tim]

Luminos,
A few months ago I did a complete replant. The actual 'aquascaping' is one
of my favorite parts of the hobby, so my tank changes often. I also wanted
to try some new plants, some that I wasn't sure I had the capability to keep
a year earlier. I have actually changed things once again since that
picture. The biggest being that I switched my substrate from sand with
laterite underneath to a product called eco-complete. The sand tended to
compact too much, which is bad for roots.

Nikki,
I believe the plant you are referring to is called Water Sprite. It can grow
unbelievably fast, it's also one of my favorites.

Tim



"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
> Tim,
>
> What's the plant on the right in November '03? I had a tiny leaf of this
> hitchhike on a plant I bought over a month ago. I stuck it in the sand
> substrate out of curiosity. It is now threatening to take over my
> aquarium! It grow so fast. Branches keep unfurling every other day. Is it
> some type of Hygrophila?
>
> Regards,
>
> Nikki
>
> tim wrote:
>> Hi Mandy,
>> I'll jump in here and give you my few cents. I've been keeping planted
>> tanks
>> for the last couple of years.
>>
>> My first suggestion would be to do much more research on the net before
>> jumping into an "extensively" planted tank. It sounds to me like your
>> LFS
>> guy really doesn't have the knowledge. Secondly, try to plan ahead on
>> what
>> types of plants you would like and the amount of time, money and effort
>> you're willing to spend.
>>
>> I suggest this because these are the factors that will determine what
>> type
>> of lighting you will need. If you would like to keep "low light, low
>> demanding" plants then you can probably get away with about 1 watt per
>> gallon. If you want venture into more demanding plants, you will need to
>> increase the amount of light. BUT, then as you increase light you must
>> begin
>> to consider the increased demand for nutrients, which opens up the doors
>> of
>> adding fertilizers, supplementing CO2 and several other factors. And,
>> with
>> these elements you will need learn the balancing act to keep your plants
>> out-competing algae for these elements.
>>
>> As far as Kelvin goes, for planted tanks I have read people having
>> success
>> with anything between 5000K and 10000K. People usually choose based on
>> personal preference on the color tint they give off. Lower numbers tend
>> to
>> be more yellow and higher numbers tend to be more blue (generally
>> speaking).
>> Within this range it will have little difference on plant growth, wattage
>> and duration of light will have greater effects.
>>
>> I have just under 3 watts per gallon (6700K), I add CO2 using the DIY
>> yeast
>> method, and dose fertilizers once a week. Here are some pics:
>> http://www.jennaandtim.com/tank/
>>
>> Some places to begin research:
>> http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/
>> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm
>> http://www.plantgeek.net/
>>
>>
>> good, have fun
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> "Mandy" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>>Thanks so much... but I'm confused, please bare with me - can the bulb
>>>be 18 watts and still in the 6500K range? what I mean is, what does
>>>the K stand for? I would have thought that 20,000k, being three times
>>>more than 6500k, would be three times stronger...
>>>
>>>If the ballast - which I guess is the light fixture - says no more than
>>>18 watts, can I get the appropriate bulbs for great freshwater plant
>>>growth or will I have to replace the whole top?
>>>
>>>Thanks again!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[George Pontis]

In article . com>,
says...
> Another question - the heater that came with the tank is 200 watts -
> will that be enough for a 37 gallon tank? Advice on placement?
> Does the heater need to be hooked up for fishless (or any) cycling?
>

150 or 200W heater is fine. If a submersible, be sure to orient horizontally and
low for best performance.

As far as planting the 37G Eclipse, it is not that good a system to work with. I
have the same 37G black seam tank and Eclipse3 hood. I have experimented with it a
bit but never have been as successful as with other tanks. My opinion is that
there are a few limitations. First, the tank is quite tall. This reduces the
surface area per volume and keeps the lights farther from the plants. It is also
harder to reach into the tank to work on the substrate and plants. The 29G tank
with the same Eclipse3 hood would make a more balanced setup, IMHO.

The hood itself does not have a great reflector or a good ballast. The magnetic
ballast probably does not get the bulbs quite as bright, or maintain their
brightness as well as an electronic ballast. It is also not that easy to upgrade
the lighting. I replaced one of the bulbs with a 24" ZooMed FloraSun, as
recommended by others in this forum. I like the color accents that it provides,
though either it or the original Eclipse lamps are have proper color for
freshwater plant growth.

Eric Shreiber retrofitted a smaller Eclipse system by adding a modest kit (2 x 13)
of power compacts and reflectors from ahsupply. He got an excellent result. This
is probably the thing to do if you are serious about growing plants in this tank.
Here's a link to his site that shows his tank and how he mounted the kit:

http://www.ericschreiber.com/aquarium/tank1.html

By the way, if you are not already doing it you should get yourself a CO2 kit of
some sort.

[Mandy]

Thanks - I'll have to find someone smarter than me to get on that! lol
-

And to illustrate what I mean - the first photo shows the filter (blue
one one side, charcoal on the other) blue side down, all pushed down
into the resevoir. I had thought it was supposed to go blue side up,
sitting at the top of that resevoir, so that the water would first flow
thru the blue (straining out big crap) then thru the charcoal. At the
bottom of the resevoir is a hole that feeds to the bio wheel. Doesn't
that make sense?

So how exactly is it supposed to work?
Thanks as always for your patience!