Will this fish mix get along [Archive]

NetMax

December 29th 04, 03:55 AM

Christopher Kollmann

December 29th 04, 04:29 AM

Quoth >,

> "Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm starting a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. After doing some research,
> > especially on www.cichlid-forum.com, I was thinking of stocking the
> > following mix of fish:
> >
> > 4 Labidochromis caeruleus
> > 4 Pseudotropheus socolofi
> > 3 Synodontis multipunctatus
> >
> > Will these fish get along together? Is this stocking level good? The
> > tank is heavily decorated with rocks, with many hiding places. Any
> > other suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Chris Kollmann
>
>
> I generally put mbuna into larger tanks (70g+) so they don't get on each
> other's cases too soon, however Labs are fairly mellow (on the mbuna
> scale of aggression ;~), and Socolofi are dwarfs (though testy). It
> sounds like a nice mix. You could put some ditherfish in there too, to
> bring the mbuna out more and to give some color/activity to the upper
> portion of the tank. Since you have yellow, blue and black, how about
> some Tiger barbs (green, albino or even regular). If you want to stay
> with the African theme, some Julies or Lamp. Brichardis would work too,
> though they can sometimes reproduce faster than desirable.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hmm, I kind of like the idea of some dither fish, if that won't put too
much bio-load on the tank. However, my research indicates Barbs prefer
softer, slightly acidic water. Is that true? If so, that's not exactly
the environment I going for with these Mbuna. I'll look into the
Julies, that may be a good idea. I was hesitant to mix Tanganyika and
Malawi fish, but I just love the looks of the Cuckoo Cats, so I'm
already messing with nature in this tank. Anybody else have good
suggestions for dither fish that will get along with this mix and enjoy
harder, higher pH water?

--
Chris Kollmann

Glenn

December 29th 04, 06:38 AM

I have had good luck with tiger barbs with my yellow labs, and Rusties, too
(Iodotropheus sprengerae). Also, I like the giant Danio for dither. They
both do well with the hard alkaline water. Be sure to keep the Tiger barbs
in a group of 5 or more, and they leave everyone alone.

Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
.. .
> Quoth >,
>
>> "Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm starting a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. After doing some research,
>> > especially on www.cichlid-forum.com, I was thinking of stocking the
>> > following mix of fish:
>> >
>> > 4 Labidochromis caeruleus
>> > 4 Pseudotropheus socolofi
>> > 3 Synodontis multipunctatus
>> >
>> > Will these fish get along together? Is this stocking level good? The
>> > tank is heavily decorated with rocks, with many hiding places. Any
>> > other suggestions?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.
>> >
>> > Chris Kollmann
>>
>>
>> I generally put mbuna into larger tanks (70g+) so they don't get on each
>> other's cases too soon, however Labs are fairly mellow (on the mbuna
>> scale of aggression ;~), and Socolofi are dwarfs (though testy). It
>> sounds like a nice mix. You could put some ditherfish in there too, to
>> bring the mbuna out more and to give some color/activity to the upper
>> portion of the tank. Since you have yellow, blue and black, how about
>> some Tiger barbs (green, albino or even regular). If you want to stay
>> with the African theme, some Julies or Lamp. Brichardis would work too,
>> though they can sometimes reproduce faster than desirable.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Hmm, I kind of like the idea of some dither fish, if that won't put too
> much bio-load on the tank. However, my research indicates Barbs prefer
> softer, slightly acidic water. Is that true? If so, that's not exactly
> the environment I going for with these Mbuna. I'll look into the
> Julies, that may be a good idea. I was hesitant to mix Tanganyika and
> Malawi fish, but I just love the looks of the Cuckoo Cats, so I'm
> already messing with nature in this tank. Anybody else have good
> suggestions for dither fish that will get along with this mix and enjoy
> harder, higher pH water?
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Kollmann

luminos

December 29th 04, 08:22 AM

> Since you have yellow, blue and black, how about
> some Tiger barbs (green, albino or even regular).

NetMax, you have given so much great information, but this suggestion
astounds me.

Can you elaborate?

Susan

December 29th 04, 12:19 PM

I have read that rainbow fish are a popular dither fish choice in rift lake
aquariums....

Susan

"Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
.. .
> Quoth >,
>
> > "Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm starting a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. After doing some research,
> > > especially on www.cichlid-forum.com, I was thinking of stocking the
> > > following mix of fish:
> > >
> > > 4 Labidochromis caeruleus
> > > 4 Pseudotropheus socolofi
> > > 3 Synodontis multipunctatus
> > >
> > > Will these fish get along together? Is this stocking level good? The
> > > tank is heavily decorated with rocks, with many hiding places. Any
> > > other suggestions?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Chris Kollmann
> >
> >
> > I generally put mbuna into larger tanks (70g+) so they don't get on each
> > other's cases too soon, however Labs are fairly mellow (on the mbuna
> > scale of aggression ;~), and Socolofi are dwarfs (though testy). It
> > sounds like a nice mix. You could put some ditherfish in there too, to
> > bring the mbuna out more and to give some color/activity to the upper
> > portion of the tank. Since you have yellow, blue and black, how about
> > some Tiger barbs (green, albino or even regular). If you want to stay
> > with the African theme, some Julies or Lamp. Brichardis would work too,
> > though they can sometimes reproduce faster than desirable.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Hmm, I kind of like the idea of some dither fish, if that won't put too
> much bio-load on the tank. However, my research indicates Barbs prefer
> softer, slightly acidic water. Is that true? If so, that's not exactly
> the environment I going for with these Mbuna. I'll look into the
> Julies, that may be a good idea. I was hesitant to mix Tanganyika and
> Malawi fish, but I just love the looks of the Cuckoo Cats, so I'm
> already messing with nature in this tank. Anybody else have good
> suggestions for dither fish that will get along with this mix and enjoy
> harder, higher pH water?
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Kollmann

NetMax

December 29th 04, 06:17 PM

"luminos" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Since you have yellow, blue and black, how about
>> some Tiger barbs (green, albino or even regular).
>
> NetMax, you have given so much great information, but this suggestion
> astounds me.
>
> Can you elaborate?

My pleasure luminos, but what aspect of my suggestion have you found
astounding, my sense of colour coordination, the layering of species or
the range of natural origins being mixed together?

For layering, the Syno holds the bottom 10%, the Socolofi the next 25%,
the labs about the middle 50% (overlapping into the Socolofi territory),
leaving the top of the tank empty, which 7 Tigers would sill nicely. For
swimming behaviour they also contrast each other with territorial to a
roving pack grouping.

On colours, there are already yellow fish (Labs) and blue with black
banding (Soco), and the Syno are monochrome, so I was looking for
different colours. Tiger barbs come naturally (line-bred) in 3 colour
forms, regular banded, green and albino (you know that I'd never suggest
a dyed fish).

On place of origin (water parameters & behaviour), they are all close
enough if the water is not to an extreme, and the tank is not
overstocked.

Does that help?
--
www.NetMax.tk

Amateur Cichlids

December 29th 04, 06:21 PM

"Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> I'm starting a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. After doing some research,
> especially on www.cichlid-forum.com, I was thinking of stocking the
> following mix of fish:
>
> 4 Labidochromis caeruleus
> 4 Pseudotropheus socolofi
> 3 Synodontis multipunctatus
>
> Will these fish get along together? Is this stocking level good? The
> tank is heavily decorated with rocks, with many hiding places. Any
> other suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Chris Kollmann
>

Chris,
As Netmax stated, most of the Mbuna do better in a 75 gallon tank. If
you're going with a 55 gallon, consider some of the smaller Mbuna instead of
the Pseudotropheus species. Even the dwarf species of Mbuna can be a bit
aggressive for a 55. You may be better off with Cynotilapia or Iodotropheus
species. Another option would be to mix some Aulonocara with the yellow
labids. Many of the Labidochromis species, like the caeruleus are
insectivores. They eat a mix of algae and insects from the biocover. This
allows them to have a more varied diet where most of the other Mbuna species
need a diet primarily vegetarian in nature.
A note on the P. socolofi. Netmax mentioned them as dwarf Mbuna. In the
wild these fish obtain lengths of about three inches. Most of the P.
socolofi in the trade right now are tank raised. In tanks, these fish have
been recorded up to lengths of six inches or more. Not exactly a dwarf Mbuna
at that size. Also, when purchasing P. socolofi, be certain you're getting
the right fish. They are found in the wild in a couple locations along side
Metriaclima aurora and visibly look identical. It's easy to catch small M.
aurora and mistake them for P. socolofi.
As for dither fish, I've moved away from them in my tanks now. Once the
fish are used to you, they're out enough to not have to worry about it. If
you build up the rock work enough in the tank, the fish will cover the
entire range. If you stick with Mbuna and do 6 L. caeruleus, (1m/2f) and do
say 6 Cynotilapia afra (2m/4f) with lots of rock work, the tank will be
alive with activity.
Just my thoughts.
Tim (aka AmateurCichlids)
www.fishaholics.org

Sarah Navarro

December 29th 04, 11:53 PM

Excuse my dumbness, I'm still relatively new to fish, but what are dither
fish? Thanks.

Sarah

"Amateur Cichlids" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm starting a 55 gallon Mbuna tank. After doing some research,
>> especially on www.cichlid-forum.com, I was thinking of stocking the
>> following mix of fish:
>>
>> 4 Labidochromis caeruleus
>> 4 Pseudotropheus socolofi
>> 3 Synodontis multipunctatus
>>
>> Will these fish get along together? Is this stocking level good? The
>> tank is heavily decorated with rocks, with many hiding places. Any
>> other suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Chris Kollmann
>>
>
> Chris,
> As Netmax stated, most of the Mbuna do better in a 75 gallon tank. If
> you're going with a 55 gallon, consider some of the smaller Mbuna instead
> of the Pseudotropheus species. Even the dwarf species of Mbuna can be a
> bit aggressive for a 55. You may be better off with Cynotilapia or
> Iodotropheus species. Another option would be to mix some Aulonocara with
> the yellow labids. Many of the Labidochromis species, like the caeruleus
> are insectivores. They eat a mix of algae and insects from the biocover.
> This allows them to have a more varied diet where most of the other Mbuna
> species need a diet primarily vegetarian in nature.
> A note on the P. socolofi. Netmax mentioned them as dwarf Mbuna. In the
> wild these fish obtain lengths of about three inches. Most of the P.
> socolofi in the trade right now are tank raised. In tanks, these fish have
> been recorded up to lengths of six inches or more. Not exactly a dwarf
> Mbuna at that size. Also, when purchasing P. socolofi, be certain you're
> getting the right fish. They are found in the wild in a couple locations
> along side Metriaclima aurora and visibly look identical. It's easy to
> catch small M. aurora and mistake them for P. socolofi.
> As for dither fish, I've moved away from them in my tanks now. Once the
> fish are used to you, they're out enough to not have to worry about it. If
> you build up the rock work enough in the tank, the fish will cover the
> entire range. If you stick with Mbuna and do 6 L. caeruleus, (1m/2f) and
> do say 6 Cynotilapia afra (2m/4f) with lots of rock work, the tank will be
> alive with activity.
> Just my thoughts.
> Tim (aka AmateurCichlids)
> www.fishaholics.org
>

Christopher Kollmann

December 30th 04, 12:57 AM

Quoth >,

> Chris,
> As Netmax stated, most of the Mbuna do better in a 75 gallon tank. If
> you're going with a 55 gallon, consider some of the smaller Mbuna instead of
> the Pseudotropheus species. Even the dwarf species of Mbuna can be a bit
> aggressive for a 55. You may be better off with Cynotilapia or Iodotropheus
> species. Another option would be to mix some Aulonocara with the yellow
> labids. Many of the Labidochromis species, like the caeruleus are
> insectivores. They eat a mix of algae and insects from the biocover. This
> allows them to have a more varied diet where most of the other Mbuna species
> need a diet primarily vegetarian in nature.
> A note on the P. socolofi. Netmax mentioned them as dwarf Mbuna. In the
> wild these fish obtain lengths of about three inches. Most of the P.
> socolofi in the trade right now are tank raised. In tanks, these fish have
> been recorded up to lengths of six inches or more. Not exactly a dwarf Mbuna
> at that size. Also, when purchasing P. socolofi, be certain you're getting
> the right fish. They are found in the wild in a couple locations along side
> Metriaclima aurora and visibly look identical. It's easy to catch small M.
> aurora and mistake them for P. socolofi.
> As for dither fish, I've moved away from them in my tanks now. Once the
> fish are used to you, they're out enough to not have to worry about it. If
> you build up the rock work enough in the tank, the fish will cover the
> entire range. If you stick with Mbuna and do 6 L. caeruleus, (1m/2f) and do
> say 6 Cynotilapia afra (2m/4f) with lots of rock work, the tank will be
> alive with activity.
> Just my thoughts.
> Tim (aka AmateurCichlids)
> www.fishaholics.org

Interesting. Thank you for the information. I had not realized that
socolofi got that big. Boy, it seems like everything I read about
cichlids is later contradicted by someone else (seen today on
cichlidtank.com: Pseudotropheus demasoni described as "moderately
peaceful," which is not what I've read at all). Maybe C. afra is the
way to go, if I can find them around here. I know you recommended
against Pseudotropheus, but what about Pseudotropheus acei? From what
I've read, they are supposedly fairly peaceful, but I'm beginning to
wonder about the accuracy of my sources. Do you think they would be a
good fit for this tank?

Thanks for all your help.

Chris

--
Chris Kollmann

Amateur Cichlids

December 30th 04, 02:04 AM

"Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
.. .
> Interesting. Thank you for the information. I had not realized that
> socolofi got that big. Boy, it seems like everything I read about
> cichlids is later contradicted by someone else (seen today on
> cichlidtank.com: Pseudotropheus demasoni described as "moderately
> peaceful," which is not what I've read at all). Maybe C. afra is the
> way to go, if I can find them around here. I know you recommended
> against Pseudotropheus, but what about Pseudotropheus acei? From what
> I've read, they are supposedly fairly peaceful, but I'm beginning to
> wonder about the accuracy of my sources. Do you think they would be a
> good fit for this tank?
>
> Thanks for all your help.
>
> Chris

Chris,
As for the differing opinions, you'll find them not only online, but
also in some of the more trusted books out there. From reading online, in
books and personal experience, P. demasoni are anything but peaceful. They
are very pretty though. For the P. socolofi and their ability to get larger
than normal in tanks, that comes from Ad Konings and "Malawi Cichlids in
their natural habitat".
The P. acei if you get the species from Ngara are fairly peaceful. That
much I agree with. :D
They are found in the lake in a sandy area where a lot of trees are fallen
in the water or overhang the water. They form a large community there as
opposed to guarding a specific area. They were the most peaceful
Pseudotropheus I've owned. I can't speak for some of the other acei species
I've seen, because I've never owned them. I don't know how any of the acei
will react in a 55 gallon. Mine were in a 75 when I had them. There's also
the Iodotropheus sprengerae to consider.
Tim
www.fishaholics.org

Larry

December 31st 04, 03:04 PM

Hello Netmax and other members,

First time poster. Was pleasantly surprised to find a ng just for
cichlid lovers. Wife bought me a 26g (don't laugh) for Christmas. I
thought it was pretty big but notice that many are talking 55g plus in
this ng. Guess I'll work up to it.

I have just put in 7 cichlids and notice as you pointed out that the
top half is not used too much. I have two yellow Labs, two dolphin
and two zebras and one can't remember. They are just babies now (1"
+). Eventually I want to put in a pleco and small eel or blue
crayfish. Do I have any room to add more with the 26g tank or should
I be satisfied with what I have?

TIA

All the best,

Larry
Southern Ontario

NetMax

December 31st 04, 06:03 PM

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Netmax and other members,
>
> First time poster. Was pleasantly surprised to find a ng just for
> cichlid lovers. Wife bought me a 26g (don't laugh) for Christmas. I
> thought it was pretty big but notice that many are talking 55g plus in
> this ng. Guess I'll work up to it.
>
> I have just put in 7 cichlids and notice as you pointed out that the
> top half is not used too much. I have two yellow Labs, two dolphin
> and two zebras and one can't remember. They are just babies now (1"
> +). Eventually I want to put in a pleco and small eel or blue
> crayfish. Do I have any room to add more with the 26g tank or should
> I be satisfied with what I have?
>
> TIA
>
> All the best,
>
> Larry
> Southern Ontario

Do you want the good news or the bad news first? ;~) The good news is
that you have started with some of the more interesting and personable
types of fish in the trade. The bad news is that you will soon be
hooked, and within a year, you will look back fondly at your 26g which
will be a quarantine or a fry tank, and be admiring your dolphins
swimming back & forth in their 60 to 100g tank (dolphins or Cyrtocara
moorii get to about 20cm (7-8 inches) and are best kept in groups of
about 5 to 7 fish). They group fairly nicely with Labs which have
similar diets but prefer the lower reaches of the tank (the dolphins will
take to the upper reaches as they mature). Labs are properly kept in
small groups as well. Zebra (some type of Pseudotropheus) can have
nastier dispositions and require more vegetation in their diet. They
will be your 'black sheep' and will probably make that tank feel smaller
than it is for the other occupants.

Trade secret: larger tanks are in many regards, much easier to take care
of than smaller tanks. Personally, my smallest tank which I have
patience to operate is 40g, and I really prefer larger than 60g as this
is when I find the system stabilizes much more easily, jmo.

Please look into cycling *important* as it sounds like these fish were
just dropped into a new tank. They will die or suffer tremendously in
the accumulation of their own waste unless you take aggressive action to
control this while the tank cycles (establishes a colony of bacteria
which converts fish waste into less toxic forms).
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

ps: more fish - bad idea, unless you were already cycled, and were just
using this as a grow-out tank, before they were moved into something
bigger in 8 months.
jmho
--
www.NetMax.tk

Larry

December 31st 04, 08:10 PM

Thanks for responding. Sounds to me like we had better be running not
walking these babies (dolphins and maybe even the zebras) back to the
fish store.

We TOLD the guy there that we didn't want anything larger than 4"
fully grown but I guess he figured we were amateurs from the get go.
What others will live nicely with the little yellow guys (and not get
huge)?

Larry

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:03:28 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

The bad news is that you will soon be
>hooked, and within a year, you will look back fondly at your 26g which
>will be a quarantine or a fry tank, and be admiring your dolphins
>swimming back & forth in their 60 to 100g tank (dolphins or Cyrtocara
>moorii get to about 20cm (7-8 inches) and are best kept in groups of
>about 5 to 7 fish).

NetMax

December 31st 04, 08:27 PM

While your dolphins might not get to 7 inches, I don't think they would
have much trouble getting well over 4". I would not put medium to large
African cichlids in a 26g. I find that their territory tends to be in
the neighbourhood of 20g, and their tolerance for other fish within their
territory tends to be poor *cough*. Your results might vary with some of
the smaller dwarf species, such as Julidochromis or better yet, some of
the Neolamprologous. A 26g is more for a small community tank of less
aggressive and less territorial fishes. In cichlids, this would be
something from the Apistogramma family (South America, if your tap water
is generally neutral to soft). Do a bit of research and get a few more
poster's advice. This is a hobby with much anecdotal advice and results
will vary considerably. I think I remember www.cichlidrecipe.com having
a recipe for small tanks with Africans if you are set on them (and your
source water is naturally hard & alkaline). That might help you.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for responding. Sounds to me like we had better be running not
> walking these babies (dolphins and maybe even the zebras) back to the
> fish store.
>
> We TOLD the guy there that we didn't want anything larger than 4"
> fully grown but I guess he figured we were amateurs from the get go.
> What others will live nicely with the little yellow guys (and not get
> huge)?
>
> Larry
>
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:03:28 -0500, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
> The bad news is that you will soon be
>>hooked, and within a year, you will look back fondly at your 26g which
>>will be a quarantine or a fry tank, and be admiring your dolphins
>>swimming back & forth in their 60 to 100g tank (dolphins or Cyrtocara
>>moorii get to about 20cm (7-8 inches) and are best kept in groups of
>>about 5 to 7 fish).

Christopher Kollmann

January 5th 05, 12:35 PM

Quoth >,

> Chris,
> As for the differing opinions, you'll find them not only online, but
> also in some of the more trusted books out there. From reading online, in
> books and personal experience, P. demasoni are anything but peaceful. They
> are very pretty though. For the P. socolofi and their ability to get larger
> than normal in tanks, that comes from Ad Konings and "Malawi Cichlids in
> their natural habitat".
> The P. acei if you get the species from Ngara are fairly peaceful. That
> much I agree with. :D
> They are found in the lake in a sandy area where a lot of trees are fallen
> in the water or overhang the water. They form a large community there as
> opposed to guarding a specific area. They were the most peaceful
> Pseudotropheus I've owned. I can't speak for some of the other acei species
> I've seen, because I've never owned them. I don't know how any of the acei
> will react in a 55 gallon. Mine were in a 75 when I had them. There's also
> the Iodotropheus sprengerae to consider.

OK, you've convinced me to go with L. caerelus, C. afra and S.
multipunctatus. My LFS has the caerelus and multipunctatus (although
the catfish are $50 each!) in stock, and will be getting some afras soon
(now I have to decide *which* afra to get, boy, there are a lot of
them).

LFS guy is recommending overstocking the tank, he claims I should end up
with 20-30 cichlids in a 55 gallon, added 8-12 at a time. Is that a
good idea? The tank is a 55 gallon, with crushed coral and a lot of
rock work, filtered by an Eheim 2126.

Thanks,
Chris
--
Chris Kollmann

Amateur Cichlids

January 5th 05, 08:10 PM

"Christopher Kollmann" > wrote in message
.. .

>
> LFS guy is recommending overstocking the tank, he claims I should end up
> with 20-30 cichlids in a 55 gallon, added 8-12 at a time. Is that a
> good idea? The tank is a 55 gallon, with crushed coral and a lot of
> rock work, filtered by an Eheim 2126.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
> --

Although overstocking is a common method of aggression control, 30 cichlids
in a 55 is too many fish. IMO. I'd stick with 6-8 of each. With the yellow
labids, I'd only do a single male. With the Cynotilapia, I'd do two males
with four to six females. Research the C. afras carefully, as some of them
can be quite aggressive. Depending on where you're located, Pam Chin
typically has C. afra juveniles and hangs out on the forum at
cichlid-forum.com
Tim