Converting to Amazon Rain Forest

[John >]

I currently have a 120G 60" X 18" X 24" High

This tank has a mixture of semi-compatible fishes, some alone by attrition,
some just odds and ends:
2 - Gold Angels (staring at me from the end of the tank)
2 - Large Silver Dollars 3" and 4"
6 - Rosie Barbs
1 - Glow Light
1 - Guppy
2 - Orange Fined Loaches (that I hardly ever see)
1 - Large pleco
1 - Large Raphael Catfish (that I have not seen out of his hole in the rocks
in years)
UGLY decor believe it or not, fake coral (I know, flame on)

I would like to turn this into an organized Amazon Rain Forest Stream
Aquarium. I will not just get rid of any fish, but slowly over the next
year or two, I would like to introduce plants, bogwood, 6 or 8 Green Discus,
Emerald catfish, 4 to 6 additional Angelfish, Silver Hatchet Fish, many,
many Cardinal Tetra, Neon's, Glow Light, more???

Some of the inhabitants are not totally suited for the change, I am
concerned, which of these current inhabitants will have the most difficult
time? I will find new homes for the incompatible. How will my existing
Angels and Silver Dollars tolerate the change? How can I protect the
Cardinals, Neon's and Glow Lights from the Angels? How do I protect the New
Angels from the old ones?

The tank is 24" high, how much light will I need to keep the plants alive?

Thanks for all your advice.
JOhn ><>

[blank]

Forget it, it wont work: get cable TV instead. That way you will have
something to watch.

The angelfish will eat all the tetras and the silver dollars will eat all
the plants.

(There are lots of documentaries about amazon rain forests on cable TV.)

[NetMax]

"John ><>" > wrote in
message ...
>I currently have a 120G 60" X 18" X 24" High
>
> This tank has a mixture of semi-compatible fishes, some alone by
> attrition, some just odds and ends:
> 2 - Gold Angels (staring at me from the end of the tank)
> 2 - Large Silver Dollars 3" and 4"
> 6 - Rosie Barbs
> 1 - Glow Light
> 1 - Guppy
> 2 - Orange Fined Loaches (that I hardly ever see)
> 1 - Large pleco
> 1 - Large Raphael Catfish (that I have not seen out of his hole in the
> rocks in years)
> UGLY decor believe it or not, fake coral (I know, flame on)
>
> I would like to turn this into an organized Amazon Rain Forest Stream
> Aquarium. I will not just get rid of any fish, but slowly over the
> next year or two, I would like to introduce plants, bogwood, 6 or 8
> Green Discus, Emerald catfish, 4 to 6 additional Angelfish, Silver
> Hatchet Fish, many, many Cardinal Tetra, Neon's, Glow Light, more???
>
> Some of the inhabitants are not totally suited for the change, I am
> concerned, which of these current inhabitants will have the most
> difficult time? I will find new homes for the incompatible. How will
> my existing Angels and Silver Dollars tolerate the change? How can I
> protect the Cardinals, Neon's and Glow Lights from the Angels? How do
> I protect the New Angels from the old ones?
>
> The tank is 24" high, how much light will I need to keep the plants
> alive?
>
> Thanks for all your advice.
> JOhn ><>


Hey John, you sound like you have far more fun with your tanks than with
your business ;~) I read blank's answer, and while it gave me a good
laugh, I have to admit there is a lot of truth to what he is saying. You
could pile up a lot of intertwining driftwood in one end of the tank, and
that will act to impede the Angelfish, (and if done correctly, provide
varied sized shelter, such as small Angels might use, and possibly enough
to maintain schools of tetras). It will have a similar effect on the
Silver dollars (who can also eat small fish), but it will not work so
nicely to keep them away from the plants. You can get some plants in the
driftwood tangle to be safe from the SDs but they will be heavily shaded
and difficult to maintain under all that wood. I think your tank is far
too small for the amount of environments you want to maintain. You might
have to re-think your plans a bit.

Besides the SDs, and the mixing of different sized Angels and tetras, the
other fish which don't fit are the Guppy (wrong water), the large Pleco
(geographically correct but a destroyer of fine plants), Rosie barbs and
loaches (geographical), and I'm not certain about the Raphael (but you
never see him anyways ;~).

I have a 120g in my basement with those dimensions. I wouldn't go less
than 160W. I've actually had it running very nicely as a planted tank
where I had to periodically cut back the jungle vallesneria (which is a
good plant for tall tanks). I didn't have CO2, didn't use ferts and only
had an old 40W bulb over it. It took a couple of years for the Val to
really get into and stay in this overgrown state. If I had known then
what I know now, this arrangement would of course never have worked ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[John >]

<<snip>>
> Hey John, you sound like you have far more fun with your tanks than with
> your business ;~) I read blank's answer, and while it gave me a good
> laugh, I have to admit there is a lot of truth to what he is saying. You
> could pile up a lot of intertwining driftwood in one end of the tank, and
> that will act to impede the Angelfish,

You haven't seen my business. I have to spend all day, each day standing
and sitting around BS (oops) talking with guys about hunting and fishing,
boating, water skiing, and now I add All Terrain Vehicles and go-carts. In
the middle of this, I am maintaining 500 gallons of water in 9 tanks, and
looking to add another 400 in 1 tank.

Can you think of a better job? (well maybe) but I have a blast. I found a
building with an 8,000 gallon tank, but they won't sell it to me (rats).

Thanks for your idea's, the incompatible fish would move to a different tank
to live out their lives happily with others of their kind, I like the idea
of providing enough cover so the little fish can hide when they feel the
need. I have never really seen a Cardinal Tetra, are they big enough to
fend for themselves?

JOhn ><>

[NetMax]

"John ><>" > wrote in
message ...
> <<snip>>
>> Hey John, you sound like you have far more fun with your tanks than
>> with your business ;~) I read blank's answer, and while it gave me a
>> good laugh, I have to admit there is a lot of truth to what he is
>> saying. You could pile up a lot of intertwining driftwood in one end
>> of the tank, and that will act to impede the Angelfish,
>
> You haven't seen my business. I have to spend all day, each day
> standing and sitting around BS (oops) talking with guys about hunting
> and fishing, boating, water skiing, and now I add All Terrain Vehicles
> and go-carts. In the middle of this, I am maintaining 500 gallons of
> water in 9 tanks, and looking to add another 400 in 1 tank.
>
> Can you think of a better job? (well maybe) but I have a blast. I
> found a building with an 8,000 gallon tank, but they won't sell it to
> me (rats).
>
> Thanks for your idea's, the incompatible fish would move to a different
> tank to live out their lives happily with others of their kind, I like
> the idea of providing enough cover so the little fish can hide when
> they feel the need.

>I have never really seen a Cardinal Tetra, are they big enough to fend
>for themselves?

No, not really. Think of them as jumbo Neon tetras, about the size of
your thumb (is wide).
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/cardinal.xml

Score that 8000g tank and I'd probably come and help you set it up :o)
Are you at Lake Mason Michigan, Montana or Western Australia?
--
www.NetMax.tk

> JOhn ><>

[luminos]

Oh wow....size matters huh?

[John >]

<<snip>>
>
> Score that 8000g tank and I'd probably come and help you set it up :o) Are
> you at Lake Mason Michigan, Montana or Western Australia?
> --
>
Actually we are not that far off... Hopefully in the next year or two. Do
you know anyone who can engineer a 8' diameter octagon or round 8' deep. 4'
to 5' above ground, 3' to 4' below?

Needs a faux stone waterfall on 1/4 of one side to aerate the water and keep
the surface moving. Filtering system I assume would be much like a swimming
pool, draw water from the top edges and a floor drain for cleaning and
maintenance.

Not even Lake Mason Iowa
Lake Mason Wisconsin
T14N R08E S31 NW NE
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/lakes/lakemap/0175700z.htm

JOhn ><>

[John >]

"luminos" > wrote in message
...
> Oh wow....size matters huh?
>
>
YUP :<)

[NetMax]

"John ><>" > wrote in
message ...
> <<snip>>
>>
>> Score that 8000g tank and I'd probably come and help you set it up :o)
>> Are you at Lake Mason Michigan, Montana or Western Australia?
>> --
>>
> Actually we are not that far off... Hopefully in the next year or two.
> Do you know anyone who can engineer a 8' diameter octagon or round 8'
> deep. 4' to 5' above ground, 3' to 4' below?

No but I'd be interested, and in how much it costs. I have a pet project
which requires a 9' diameter cylinder, 6' tall. I just need to get rich
first.

> Needs a faux stone waterfall on 1/4 of one side to aerate the water and
> keep the surface moving. Filtering system I assume would be much like
> a swimming pool, draw water from the top edges and a floor drain for
> cleaning and maintenance.

Depends on the type/size of fish. I've often seen a white PVC pipe (5"
dia ?) with a lot of holes drilled into it as the filter siphon/strainer.
It's ugly so you need to hide it, otherwise a drilled false bottom
covered by river stones works too. Pulling the water off the top can be
noisy.

You would need a swimming pool's sand filter, probably 2 for alternate
cleaning/redundancy (depends on your fish load) and a pump. Pool pumps
are cheap and designed to run 24/7 but they are noisy, so you might want
to use something else, or plan on putting the pump in a well insolated
(noise) and ventilated (air) area.

> Not even Lake Mason Iowa
> Lake Mason Wisconsin
> T14N R08E S31 NW NE
> http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/lakes/lakemap/0175700z.htm
>
> JOhn ><>


I'll remember that for my next American bike cruise :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[John >]

>> deep. 4' to 5' above ground, 3' to 4' below?
>
> No but I'd be interested, and in how much it costs. I have a pet project
> which requires a 9' diameter cylinder, 6' tall. I just need to get rich
> first.

Most of the tanks I have seen are built in sections with panels 4' to 6' and
support between, not solid round.

> Depends on the type/size of fish. I've often seen a white PVC pipe (5"

Me too, you are right, effective but ugly

> You would need a swimming pool's sand filter, probably 2 for alternate
> cleaning/redundancy (depends on your fish load) and a pump. Pool pumps
> are cheap and designed to run 24/7 but they are noisy, so you might want
> to use something else, or plan on putting the pump in a well insolated
> (noise) and ventilated (air) area.

Remote installation, in the back (water) room well out of sight and ear shot
from the main floor. Underground piping will help cool the water too. Sort
of like a heat pump, backwards.

>
> I'll remember that for my next American bike cruise :o).
> --

Motorcycle ride I hope, you cannot be one of those fanatics like my brother
who takes a 75 mile bicycle ride on a Sunday afternoon to relax, Are You?

JOhn ><>

[NetMax]

"John ><>" > wrote in
message ...
>>> deep. 4' to 5' above ground, 3' to 4' below?
>>
>> No but I'd be interested, and in how much it costs. I have a pet
>> project which requires a 9' diameter cylinder, 6' tall. I just need
>> to get rich first.
>
> Most of the tanks I have seen are built in sections with panels 4' to
> 6' and support between, not solid round.

The sections really break the view, but I've seen huge rounded sheets of
glass(?) at public aquariums, so someone must make them.

>> Depends on the type/size of fish. I've often seen a white PVC pipe
>> (5"
>
> Me too, you are right, effective but ugly
>
>> You would need a swimming pool's sand filter, probably 2 for alternate
>> cleaning/redundancy (depends on your fish load) and a pump. Pool
>> pumps are cheap and designed to run 24/7 but they are noisy, so you
>> might want to use something else, or plan on putting the pump in a
>> well insolated (noise) and ventilated (air) area.
>
> Remote installation, in the back (water) room well out of sight and ear
> shot from the main floor. Underground piping will help cool the water
> too. Sort of like a heat pump, backwards.

Must be warm where you are. Hear we are usually trying to keep the heat.

>> I'll remember that for my next American bike cruise :o).
>> --
>
> Motorcycle ride I hope, you cannot be one of those fanatics like my
> brother who takes a 75 mile bicycle ride on a Sunday afternoon to
> relax, Are You?
>
> JOhn ><>

ROTFLMAO, I don't think I could bicycle to my local store and back in one
day (but it is about 15 miles away). I'd have 1100cc under me :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk