Unstable tank Please Help!!!

[Linus]

Help Please!

I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I added 3
glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16 fish total and 2
weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish died.

Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color. It has
been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I am running a
Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I have added my Eheim
canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10 years ago. (I have been out
of fish keeping for some time). My hope was with the canister filter with a
much larger charcoal load, I could better filter the water.

I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4 weeks and
every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I would agree other
than the cloudiness). After the die off I have done a 60% water change. I
typically do 25% water changes once a month. The 2 fish that survived (1
neon and 1 second generation guppy) were not looking great after the die
off. Today they don't have any spots or signs of infection. They are
eating well now and are basically looking healthy. Four days ago I added 3
blood fin tetras and they seem to be doing well. The tank is still very
cloudy.

The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help control
the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8. During one of
the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70 ppm. According to the
range on the chart, this is low. My natural tap water is very soft and is
typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been adding PH up to try to get the PH
closer to 7 and I am making some headway.

My questions are:
- Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something else?
- How do I correct it?

-How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to hold
it in the right place but it is not.
- Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I be
adding more because the reading is relatively low?
- Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
expensive. Can I use baking soda?

- Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the Penguin
125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such a small tank.
(too noisy and too much current)

Thanks for your help!

[NetMax]

"Linus" > wrote in message
...
> Help Please!
>
> I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
> community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I added
> 3 glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16 fish total
> and 2 weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish died.

This suggests they brough a disease in with them, if you didn't make any
other radical changes at the same time.

> Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color. It
> has been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I am
> running a Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I have
> added my Eheim canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10 years
> ago. (I have been out of fish keeping for some time). My hope was
> with the canister filter with a much larger charcoal load, I could
> better filter the water.

Cloudy water is probably a bacterial bloom, relates to your massive
change in bioload possible. Carbon is a chemical filter and even if the
carbon was fresh (old carbon is useless), I still think it would be
ineffective against bacteria. Note that bacterial blooms in themselves
are quite inoquous.

> I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4 weeks
> and every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I would
> agree other than the cloudiness). After the die off I have done a 60%
> water change. I typically do 25% water changes once a month. The 2
> fish that survived (1 neon and 1 second generation guppy) were not
> looking great after the die off. Today they don't have any spots or
> signs of infection. They are eating well now and are basically looking
> healthy. Four days ago I added 3 blood fin tetras and they seem to be
> doing well. The tank is still very cloudy.
>
> The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help
> control the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8.
> During one of the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70 ppm.
> According to the range on the chart, this is low. My natural tap water
> is very soft and is typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been adding PH
> up to try to get the PH closer to 7 and I am making some headway.

I don't recommend the use of pH altering chemicals. Many use buffers
which promote algae growth (did you say you had a green tinge? ;~).
Research old tank syndrome (an accumulation of detritus in the gravel
whose decay causes the kH to exhaust itself, resulting in the pH
dropping). Solution is to gravel vacuum and change water more often.

> My questions are:
> - Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something else?


cloudy = bacteria or other particles
green = algae spores

> - How do I correct it?

- already above

> -How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to
> hold it in the right place but it is not.

- above

> - Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I
> be adding more because the reading is relatively low?

- this is a band-aid which is no longer working, so I don't think adding
more or bigger band-aids will help you now (jmo).

> - Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
> expensive. Can I use baking soda?

Baking soda will raise the kH, which is something you could try once you
have looked at the root cause of the problem.

> - Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the
> Penguin 125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such a
> small tank. (too noisy and too much current)

A bigger Penquin ?

> Thanks for your help!

--
www.NetMax.tk

[Linus]

Thanks for the reply - More questions below.


"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Linus" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Help Please!
>>
>> I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
>> community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I added 3
>> glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16 fish total and
>> 2 weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish died.
>
> This suggests they brough a disease in with them, if you didn't make any
> other radical changes at the same time.
>
Agreed.

>> Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color. It
>> has been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I am
>> running a Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I have
>> added my Eheim canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10 years ago.
>> (I have been out of fish keeping for some time). My hope was with the
>> canister filter with a much larger charcoal load, I could better filter
>> the water.
>
> Cloudy water is probably a bacterial bloom, relates to your massive change
> in bioload possible. Carbon is a chemical filter and even if the carbon
> was fresh (old carbon is useless), I still think it would be ineffective
> against bacteria. Note that bacterial blooms in themselves are quite
> inoquous.

If it is a bacterial bloom how long should it take to correct itself? It
has already been 3-4 weeks



>> I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4 weeks
>> and every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I would agree
>> other than the cloudiness). After the die off I have done a 60% water
>> change. I typically do 25% water changes once a month. The 2 fish that
>> survived (1 neon and 1 second generation guppy) were not looking great
>> after the die off. Today they don't have any spots or signs of
>> infection. They are eating well now and are basically looking healthy.
>> Four days ago I added 3 blood fin tetras and they seem to be doing well.
>> The tank is still very cloudy.
>>
>> The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help
>> control the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8.
>> During one of the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70 ppm.
>> According to the range on the chart, this is low. My natural tap water
>> is very soft and is typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been adding PH up
>> to try to get the PH closer to 7 and I am making some headway.
>
> I don't recommend the use of pH altering chemicals. Many use buffers
> which promote algae growth (did you say you had a green tinge? ;~).
> Research old tank syndrome (an accumulation of detritus in the gravel
> whose decay causes the kH to exhaust itself, resulting in the pH
> dropping). Solution is to gravel vacuum and change water more often.
>

Every time I do a water change I use a gravel filter to take the water out.
I have not actually connected the gravel filter to a pump to recirculate
the water. Is that something I should be doing at this point?

I am not running an under gravel filter, so I don't have much gravel in the
tank - about an inch at most. When I do the water changes with the gravel
filter I have not noticed the gravel being particularly dirty, so while that
could be causing the PH to drop, I am assuming that because the water is so
soft that it is not going to take much to cuase it fluctuate or in this case
drop. So my assumption again is that a buffer is needed.
When the tank was new (2-3 months old) I noticed the low PH. which is
another reason why I assumed that I needed something the keep the PH stable.

Your point about the buffer promoting algae growth could be right on. So
should I be doing nothing at this point. I hear what you are saying about
cleaning the gravel but I am concerned that the PH will drop causing stress
for the fish.



>> My questions are:
>> - Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something else?
>
>
> cloudy = bacteria or other particles
> green = algae spores
>
>> - How do I correct it?
>
> - already above
>
>> -How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to
>> hold it in the right place but it is not.
>
> - above
>
>> - Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I be
>> adding more because the reading is relatively low?
>
> - this is a band-aid which is no longer working, so I don't think adding
> more or bigger band-aids will help you now (jmo).
>
>> - Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
>> expensive. Can I use baking soda?
>
> Baking soda will raise the kH, which is something you could try once you
> have looked at the root cause of the problem.

How much baking soda can be added at a time?



>> - Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the
>> Penguin 125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such a
>> small tank. (too noisy and too much current)
>
> A bigger Penquin ?
>
>> Thanks for your help!
>
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[Margolis]

"Linus" > wrote in message
...
> Help Please!
>
> I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
> community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I added 3
> glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16 fish total and
2
> weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish died.
>
> Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color. It has
> been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I am running a
> Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I have added my Eheim
> canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10 years ago. (I have been
out
> of fish keeping for some time). My hope was with the canister filter with
a
> much larger charcoal load, I could better filter the water.
>
> I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4 weeks and
> every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I would agree
other
> than the cloudiness). After the die off I have done a 60% water change.
I
> typically do 25% water changes once a month. The 2 fish that survived (1
> neon and 1 second generation guppy) were not looking great after the die
> off. Today they don't have any spots or signs of infection. They are
> eating well now and are basically looking healthy. Four days ago I added
3
> blood fin tetras and they seem to be doing well. The tank is still very
> cloudy.
>
> The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help control
> the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8. During one of
> the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70 ppm. According to
the
> range on the chart, this is low. My natural tap water is very soft and is
> typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been adding PH up to try to get the PH
> closer to 7 and I am making some headway.
>
> My questions are:
> - Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something else?
> - How do I correct it?
>
> -How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to hold
> it in the right place but it is not.
> - Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I be
> adding more because the reading is relatively low?
> - Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
> expensive. Can I use baking soda?
>
> - Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the
Penguin
> 125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such a small
tank.
> (too noisy and too much current)
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
>


netmax answered most everything well. I just want to add my 2¢.


Cloudy water is most likely a bacterial bloom, the green tint may be a
little algae floating in the water from the excess nutrients in the water.
Your water change schedule is a little off. Do you vacuum your substrate
good at each water change? You should be vacuuming and changing 25-40% of
the water every two weeks, not once a month. Too many nutrients build up in
the tank if you don't remove them enough, this can lead to problems with
bacteria and algae. And your ph dropping like that is a sure sign that far
too much waste is accumulating in the tank. With your kh where it is, your
water should be staying around the 7.6-7.8 mark. If it is dropping it is
because of excess waste in the tank. Adding chemicals and buffers will
cover up the symptons, but they aren't going to do anything to address the
problem. DON'T add any chemicals or buffers to the water to alter the ph,
those just lead to problems. You are much better off leaving the ph a
little high than using artificial means to alter it. The only chemical you
want to use is something to remove the chlorine, don't use anything else in
the tank.


Don't add any more fish yet. Clean the filter good, then vacuum the gravel
and change about30-50% of the water, do this on a daily basis for a week or
so until you see the water coming out of the gravel vacuum is clean. then
keep up with a more regular maintenence schedule and you should have no
problems with the ph dropping or the fish dying.

as for filters go, if you want a good filter for that tank you could always
spring for an eheim 2213 or 2222 filter which are the perfect size canisters
for a 20 gallon tank.

once again, do not use any chemicals to alter the ph, just leave it at it's
natural state. (sorry, I had to repeat this. It is something that I feel
very strongly about)

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Dick]

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 18:27:21 GMT, "Linus" > wrote:

>Help Please!
>
>I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
>community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I added 3
>glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16 fish total and 2
>weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish died.
>
>Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color. It has
>been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I am running a
>Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I have added my Eheim
>canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10 years ago. (I have been out
>of fish keeping for some time). My hope was with the canister filter with a
>much larger charcoal load, I could better filter the water.
>
>I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4 weeks and
>every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I would agree other
>than the cloudiness). After the die off I have done a 60% water change. I
>typically do 25% water changes once a month. The 2 fish that survived (1
>neon and 1 second generation guppy) were not looking great after the die
>off. Today they don't have any spots or signs of infection. They are
>eating well now and are basically looking healthy. Four days ago I added 3
>blood fin tetras and they seem to be doing well. The tank is still very
>cloudy.
>
>The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help control
>the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8. During one of
>the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70 ppm. According to the
>range on the chart, this is low. My natural tap water is very soft and is
>typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been adding PH up to try to get the PH
>closer to 7 and I am making some headway.
>
>My questions are:
>- Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something else?
> - How do I correct it?
>
>-How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to hold
>it in the right place but it is not.
> - Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I be
>adding more because the reading is relatively low?
> - Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
>expensive. Can I use baking soda?
>
>- Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the Penguin
>125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such a small tank.
>(too noisy and too much current)
>
>Thanks for your help!
>

You didn't mention feeding. My first thought was over feeding. It is
the easiest thing to do as the fish gladly accept all the food you put
into the tank. I used to feed twice a day, but stopped and now feed
once a day. Amazing that there was no change in the tank or fish with
half the food.

You do say you change 25% water ONCE a month, I change 25% weekly. I
wouldn't worry about charcoal. I removed charcoal from all of my tank
filters months ago with no change in the water quality. I never
vacuum the gravel, can't even get to it because of vegetation. I
never alter the water from the tap.

I doubt you will trust what I say. From all the detail I gather you
are one that likes to be in control of your tank. Just want to say
there are alternatives.

dick

[Margolis]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
>
> You didn't mention feeding. My first thought was over feeding. It is
> the easiest thing to do as the fish gladly accept all the food you put
> into the tank. I used to feed twice a day, but stopped and now feed
> once a day. Amazing that there was no change in the tank or fish with
> half the food.


If you overfeed, then feeding multiple times a day is not good. But I feed
2-3 times a day. Small feedings each time and the fish grow much better
than with only one slightly larger feeding each day. Especially with
smaller fish that need more frequent feedings than larger fish. Just my
experience.

> filters months ago with no change in the water quality. I never
> vacuum the gravel, can't even get to it because of vegetation. I
> never alter the water from the tap.
>

planted tanks are completely different than fish only tanks. The plants
will eat all of the nutrients decomposing in the substrate in a planted
aquarium. No need to vacuum the gravel. But in a fish only aquarium, the
crap just stays in the gravel and continues to pollute the water bringing
the ph down. So you have to keep the substrate clean in a non planted tank


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Ozdude]

"Margolis" > wrote in message
link.net...

> If you overfeed, then feeding multiple times a day is not good. But I
> feed
> 2-3 times a day. Small feedings each time and the fish grow much better
> than with only one slightly larger feeding each day. Especially with
> smaller fish that need more frequent feedings than larger fish. Just my
> experience.

This is my experience too. The little Black Neons are always beaten to the
food by the Hockeys and Serpaes, so I have gotten into the routine of 2 to 3
small feedings per day (consumed within 1 minute). As I commented the other
day all of my fish have grown since I bought them a month or two ago.
Especially the hockeys. The Neons are growing too, so they must be getting
food somewhere - they seem to only be interested in blood worms at the
moment, but I do see an occasional small flake gulp from one or two of them.
I think the 'rule' about the fishes eye being the size of it's stomach is a
pretty good guide to how much food to give actually.

Sometimes they all get some frozen bloodworms as a treat, but when I get the
new tank, the current one will be a breeding/quarantine/holding tank because
it seems to fairly easy to get the fish I currently have to spawn by raising
the temp. and feeding with "live" foods - esp. the Serpaes

I may leave the black neons behind, come to think of it, so they have a
chance to feed properly once the transfer has happened - we'll see, run
time, how this goes. It may be a territorial thing, so they may need to be
in the bigger tank first to establish a little space for themselves.

I have read all over the 'net that one big feeding a day isn't a wise move
and I can vouch for little feedings = sure growth of your fish ;)

> planted tanks are completely different than fish only tanks. The plants
> will eat all of the nutrients decomposing in the substrate in a planted
> aquarium. No need to vacuum the gravel. But in a fish only aquarium, the
> crap just stays in the gravel and continues to pollute the water bringing
> the ph down. So you have to keep the substrate clean in a non planted
> tank

This is my logic about planting in small pots actually. I can have fish and
a planted tank and vacuum the gravel outside the pots (I hope ;))

Oz

[NetMax]

"Linus" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the reply - More questions below.
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Linus" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Help Please!
>>>
>>> I have a 20 gallon tank. It is about a year and a half old. It is a
>>> community tank with tetras, guppies, peaceful bottom feeders. I
>>> added 3 glo-lite tetras and the tank crashed after that. I had 16
>>> fish total and 2 weeks after adding the glo-lites all but two fish
>>> died.
>>
>> This suggests they brought a disease in with them, if you didn't make
>> any other radical changes at the same time.
>>
> Agreed.
>
>>> Currently the tank is cloudy and seems a little greenish in color.
>>> It has been cloudy ever since the mass die off about 4 weeks ago. I
>>> am running a Penguin 125 Bio filter and since all of the troubles I
>>> have added my Eheim canister filter I used on my 55 gallon tank 10
>>> years ago. (I have been out of fish keeping for some time). My hope
>>> was with the canister filter with a much larger charcoal load, I
>>> could better filter the water.
>>
>> Cloudy water is probably a bacterial bloom, relates to your massive
>> change in bioload possible. Carbon is a chemical filter and even if
>> the carbon was fresh (old carbon is useless), I still think it would
>> be ineffective against bacteria. Note that bacterial blooms in
>> themselves are quite inoquous.
>
> If it is a bacterial bloom how long should it take to correct itself?
> It has already been 3-4 weeks

Bacterial blooms 'generally' clear in 2-3 weeks (depending on many
variables). In your case, something must have been fueling it for a
while, or your unfiltered (in terms of surface area). Has the bio-wheel
stopped turning or been replaced recently? I can't recall what buffer PH
proper 7 uses, but that might be playing havoc as well.

>>> I have taken my water to be tested several times over the last 4
>>> weeks and every time they say my water conditions look perfect. (I
>>> would agree other than the cloudiness). After the die off I have
>>> done a 60% water change. I typically do 25% water changes once a
>>> month. The 2 fish that survived (1 neon and 1 second generation
>>> guppy) were not looking great after the die off. Today they don't
>>> have any spots or signs of infection. They are eating well now and
>>> are basically looking healthy. Four days ago I added 3 blood fin
>>> tetras and they seem to be doing well. The tank is still very cloudy.
>>>
>>> The PH of my tank is always going south. I use Proper 7.0 to help
>>> control the PH but even with that the PH is frequently at 6.4 -6.8.
>>> During one of the water tests the alkalinity was measured to be 70
>>> ppm. According to the range on the chart, this is low. My natural
>>> tap water is very soft and is typically a PH of 7.6-7.8. I have been
>>> adding PH up to try to get the PH closer to 7 and I am making some
>>> headway.
>>
>> I don't recommend the use of pH altering chemicals. Many use buffers
>> which promote algae growth (did you say you had a green tinge? ;~).
>> Research old tank syndrome (an accumulation of detritus in the gravel
>> whose decay causes the kH to exhaust itself, resulting in the pH
>> dropping). Solution is to gravel vacuum and change water more often.
>>
>
> Every time I do a water change I use a gravel filter to take the water
> out. I have not actually connected the gravel filter to a pump to
> recirculate the water. Is that something I should be doing at this
> point?

When you gravel vacuum, you should discard the water and all the
sediments which were removed from the gravel. If your gravel looks
relatively clear, look into the back corners of the tank for
accumulation. I would start more aggressive water changes, to naturally
add buffer, remove docs which have built up and remove the chemicals the
Proper 7 have inadvertently added.

> I am not running an under gravel filter, so I don't have much gravel in
> the tank - about an inch at most. When I do the water changes with the
> gravel filter I have not noticed the gravel being particularly dirty,
> so while that could be causing the PH to drop, I am assuming that
> because the water is so soft that it is not going to take much to cuase
> it fluctuate or in this case drop. So my assumption again is that a
> buffer is needed.
> When the tank was new (2-3 months old) I noticed the low PH. which is
> another reason why I assumed that I needed something the keep the PH
> stable.
>
> Your point about the buffer promoting algae growth could be right on.
> So should I be doing nothing at this point. I hear what you are saying
> about cleaning the gravel but I am concerned that the PH will drop
> causing stress for the fish.

The pH can drop quite low without affecting the fish, but the problem
will be when you do water changes, you have a greater risk of pH shock.

>>> My questions are:
>>> - Is the cloudiness an algae bloom, a bacteria bloom or something
>>> else?
>>
>>
>> cloudy = bacteria or other particles
>> green = algae spores
>>
>>> - How do I correct it?
>>
>> - already above
>>
>>> -How should I properly maintain the PH? I expected the Proper 7.0 to
>>> hold it in the right place but it is not.
>>
>> - above
>>
>>> - Does the Proper 7.0 increase the alkalinity - and if so should I
>>> be adding more because the reading is relatively low?
>>
>> - this is a band-aid which is no longer working, so I don't think
>> adding more or bigger band-aids will help you now (jmo).
>>
>>> - Is there a cheaper method to raise the PH. PH up is relatively
>>> expensive. Can I use baking soda?
>>
>> Baking soda will raise the kH, which is something you could try once
>> you have looked at the root cause of the problem.
>
> How much baking soda can be added at a time?

If your tap water is naturally low in buffer, then you need to do 3
things.
i) Ensure that you have no organic matter acting to reduce your kH
ii) Maintain this condition through a regular routine of water changes,
gravel vacuuming and cleaning/replacing your filter media (your bio-wheel
will keep your population steady).
iii) Add minerals which will naturally and progressively boost your kH,
such as crushed coral, dolomite, marble, tufa etc (other sources of
calcium carbonates).
This strategy will keep your kH at or above what comes out of your tap.

Adding baking soda (or is it baking powder? ;~) will often result in pH
swings which will harm/kill fish. This is because there exists something
in the tank which is continuously removing kH (usually accumulated
detritus somewhere in the system) and when you artificially boost the kH
with sodium bicarbonate, the pH pops back up rather quickly. Then the kH
slowly drops again repeating the cycle (and a bouncing pH will stress
fish more than the pH being too low).

Also a great fix for many freshwater aquarium problems is water changes
(and gravel vacuuming) as it restores missing elements and removes many
of the pollutants which build up, but if you are adding artificial
chemicals (baking soda) then these get diluted at every water change.
This is one of the main problems with chemicals, their effect tends to be
cyclical - to when they are added or removed, and cyclical reactions are
bad for fish. If you've done your best in removing rotting organic
matter, then adding some natural sources of calcium carbonates will
cancel out the ongoing effects of any organic material you may have
missed.

When you've done all that, and things are running well (when you do water
changes, your tank pH is within 0.2 of your aged tap water), *THEN* you
might consider adding a bit of baking soda to the tank water when you do
a water change. The exact quantity is completely circumstantial and you
would need to experiment a bit. Note that now you are using the sodium
bicarbonate to boost kH *without* affecting pH, and that is the big
difference your fish will thank you for.

Sorry to get preachy, but been there, done that and you asked :~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

>>> - Any good recommendations on good quiet filters I could add to the
>>> Penguin 125? I don't want to leave the large canister filter on such
>>> a small tank. (too noisy and too much current)
>>
>> A bigger Penquin ?
>>
>>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> --
>> www.NetMax.tk
>>
>
>

[ML]

Thanks to all of you who have replied. I really appreciate the input, I
also appreciate the consistency in the answers from the different folks
responding. Since reading this I have done a second water change this week
and will move to a weekly schedule once I get this thing clear and stable.

Netmax, your input on buffers was good. My only question is where do I get
the rock you are referring to

> iii) Add minerals which will naturally and progressively boost your kH,
> such as crushed coral, dolomite, marble, tufa etc (other sources of
> calcium carbonates).
> This strategy will keep your kH at or above what comes out of your tap.


I have actually been to your website. Great information, thanks for putting
it together and making it available.

I have not actually looked for the types of rock you mention above in a pet
store - but from experience I am imagining that I will end up talking to
some person that does not have a clue about rock and it will not be labeled
in the store.

Are sea shells a bad idea for a fresh water tank. I have been told they
were in the past, but that is when I was living in an area of hard water.
With soft water I am wondering if they would act as my buffer increaser.

[NetMax]

"ML" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks to all of you who have replied. I really appreciate the input,
> I also appreciate the consistency in the answers from the different
> folks responding. Since reading this I have done a second water change
> this week and will move to a weekly schedule once I get this thing
> clear and stable.
>
> Netmax, your input on buffers was good. My only question is where do I
> get the rock you are referring to

http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/rocks/rocks.shtml gives you some
pointers on identifying the rocks you want. I use a squirt of pH down to
see if the rock reacts (if yes, bubbling = calcium carbonates or at least
bicarbonates of some type). This lets me do my own spelunking, but when
I want to be certain, I just buy crushed coral or dolomite gravel.

>> iii) Add minerals which will naturally and progressively boost your
>> kH, such as crushed coral, dolomite, marble, tufa etc (other sources
>> of calcium carbonates).
>> This strategy will keep your kH at or above what comes out of your
>> tap.
>
>
> I have actually been to your website. Great information, thanks for
> putting it together and making it available.

...credit goes to the many posters in this newsgroup who provided
information I used on the site.

> I have not actually looked for the types of rock you mention above in a
> pet store - but from experience I am imagining that I will end up
> talking to some person that does not have a clue about rock and it will
> not be labeled in the store.

Generally white stones have a lot of calcium, but this is a generality
with lots of exceptions. Marble, coral, seashells are more easily
identifiable.

> Are sea shells a bad idea for a fresh water tank. I have been told
> they were in the past, but that is when I was living in an area of hard
> water. With soft water I am wondering if they would act as my buffer
> increaser.

In livebearer tanks, I've used crushed coral substrates in really soft
water. It helped tremendously. Sea shells will do the same thing, but
keep in mind that you want them to dissolve, so the more porous and the
more surface area there is, the better they will work. Marble or a few
hard shiny sea shells might not have too much effect. Chunks of coral
would be better.

Note that if you already had hard water, the sea shells (or whatever
source of calcium carbonates you are using) would dissolve much more
slowly, so they would just act as a steady buffer. The more acidic the
water, the faster they tend to dissolve (hence their practicality).
--
www.NetMax.tk