Water preperation

[Sigristr]

I have read this group off and on for several years.... It seems that most
people here recommand using an RO unit or an RO/DI unit for preparing their
water. Since I am not thrilled about wasteing a lot of water, other than
haveing to "recharge" the resins, what is the advantage of an RO over just a DI
(with carbon prefilter). What do you do with the waste water from the RO unit?

Thanks
Rod

[Marc Levenson]

Hi Rod,

The waste goes down the drain. It isn't much because my
water bill didn't even notice the difference.

The RO section removes the lion's share of the pollutants in
the water, and the DI polishes the last of it.

For example in my case, tap water TDS is 167 here. Out of
my RO, the TDS is 3, and out of my DI is 0-1.

If I used a DI only, it would have to remove 166 TDS and be
consumed within mere days. Instead it only has to remove 3
TDS and the DI lasts me 12 months. The DI is the most
expensive filter to replace, so it is best to let the RO do
the bulk of the filtering.

http://www.melevsreef.com/why_rodi.html
http://www.melevsreef.com/ro_di.html

Marc


Sigristr wrote:

> I have read this group off and on for several years.... It seems that most
> people here recommand using an RO unit or an RO/DI unit for preparing their
> water. Since I am not thrilled about wasteing a lot of water, other than
> haveing to "recharge" the resins, what is the advantage of an RO over just a DI
> (with carbon prefilter). What do you do with the waste water from the RO unit?
>
> Thanks
> Rod

--
Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Marc Levenson > verbositized:

A DI may be the most expensive to replace, but folks don't go out and
buy a new car just because the gas tank ran dry.

DI resins do NOT wear out and can be recharged indefinately for only a
buck per cylinder or less.

Since we live in a disposable society, many folks would rather fork
over the 20 bucks for a new DI cylinder and throw away a lifetime
usage product, rather than spending a few minutes recharging it.

The same analogy could be applied to dishes, why not throw them away
and buy new each month? We don't, we wash them and put them back on
the shelf for the next usage and buy styrofoam or paper to throw away.

But their really is no difference between a dish and a DI cylinder
when it comes to the reasoning as to throw it away or wash it.

TTUL
Gary

[Tre' Landrum]

Hey, I am cheap as they come.... what do you do... just wash it out, or do
you wash it out with salt water? very salty water would be for water
softener, but no... that is with a exchange resin... what do you wash out a
DI resin?!?! They just soak stuff up, and when they get full you have to
throw them out... more like a trash bag... once full throw it out... no?

Tre'

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Marc Levenson > verbositized:
>
> A DI may be the most expensive to replace, but folks don't go out and
> buy a new car just because the gas tank ran dry.
>
> DI resins do NOT wear out and can be recharged indefinately for only a
> buck per cylinder or less.
>
> Since we live in a disposable society, many folks would rather fork
> over the 20 bucks for a new DI cylinder and throw away a lifetime
> usage product, rather than spending a few minutes recharging it.
>
> The same analogy could be applied to dishes, why not throw them away
> and buy new each month? We don't, we wash them and put them back on
> the shelf for the next usage and buy styrofoam or paper to throw away.
>
> But their really is no difference between a dish and a DI cylinder
> when it comes to the reasoning as to throw it away or wash it.
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[Margolis]

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Marc Levenson > verbositized:
>
> A DI may be the most expensive to replace, but folks don't go out and
> buy a new car just because the gas tank ran dry.
>
> DI resins do NOT wear out and can be recharged indefinately for only a
> buck per cylinder or less.
>



how do you recharge the resin?

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Tre

NO!

DI resins are an adsorbent of sorts not absorbent, they exchange ion
molecules. Like an electro magnet picks up iron filings and when you
kill the juice, the iron filings fall off.

Most DI columns consist of both positive and negative ion exchange
resins. In some columns these resins are mixed together, which can
cause them to self deplete to a certain extent.

The idea behind mixing the resins in a single cylinder is to help
prevent folks from recharging, because both types of resins are
charged differently.

But fortunately, the two resins have different specific gravities.
AND the base recharge chemical when mixed properly is at just the
right specific gravity that it separates the negative resin and
recharges it, while it allows the positive resin to float to the top
for easy removal and recharging to it's positive state.

After you have separated the resins, you really don't want to mix them
back up again. If you are using a AP-TWP Cylinder, ideally you would
want to have three of them on hand. One for the carbon section, one
for the anion resin and one for the cation resin.

Once the resins are separated into their own cylinders, subsequent
rechargings are a snap and only require filling them with the
solution, letting them sit, then draining and rinsing and they are as
good as new.

The only part of the resins that fail over time is the color change
indicator dye. So we suggest setting aside a few tablespoons of this
resin to use in a small clear pillbottle to test the output, until you
know how many gallons you can get between each recharge. Then you can
go by gallonage rather than watching a color change indicator.

The directions for separating the resins and recharging the AP-TWP or
any other cylinder is on my webpage. At the end of the instructions
is a link to the two formulas and how to mix them.
Recharging uses two normally readily available products.
Lewis Red Devil 100% PURE Lye from your grocery store drain cleaning
aisle.
And Muriatic Acid from your local hardware store, usually in the
masonry aisle.

http://archimedes.galilei.com/raiar
Then look for the DI-TWP recharge instructions.

I recharged a set of six DI-TWP cylinders over well over 500 times
with no decrease in performance. Actually, they worked much better
after the resins were separated so they wouldn't neutralize
themselves.
Output from the recharged cylinders was consistantly between .05 and
06 MicroSiemens.

TTUL
Gary

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Margolis

See my post to Tre above!

TTUL
Gary

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Ric

Recharging takes both a dilute Acid and a Base.

FWIW: Vinegar that you consume is an Acid, Acetic Acid to be exact.
But we are working with both Acids and Bases that are slightly
stronger than Vinegar when diluted.

There is NO heat involved in the recharging process itself.

However, in making and bottling your dilute BASE chemical, mixing
household LYE with water does produce some heat.
But if you follow the directions it poses no problem.

You put the dry lye crystals into a bottle, add water to just under
where you are holding the plastic bottle, place the cap on it and drop
it in a pan of water until the bottles are cool.
Then you open the cap and fill the rest of the bottle with water. It
will be under a vacuum, NOT under pressure as one might assume.

Both parts of the formula store well, so I usually made up a fairly
large supply when I was doing it.

TTUL
Gary

[Margolis]

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Margolis
>
> See my post to Tre above!
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>


thanks for the reply ;o)

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

[PaulB]

Assuming you wash your dishes in muratic acid.


"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Marc Levenson > verbositized:
>
> A DI may be the most expensive to replace, but folks don't go out and
> buy a new car just because the gas tank ran dry.
>
> DI resins do NOT wear out and can be recharged indefinately for only a
> buck per cylinder or less.
>
> Since we live in a disposable society, many folks would rather fork
> over the 20 bucks for a new DI cylinder and throw away a lifetime
> usage product, rather than spending a few minutes recharging it.
>
> The same analogy could be applied to dishes, why not throw them away
> and buy new each month? We don't, we wash them and put them back on
> the shelf for the next usage and buy styrofoam or paper to throw away.
>
> But their really is no difference between a dish and a DI cylinder
> when it comes to the reasoning as to throw it away or wash it.
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>

[kryppy]

On 04 Jan 2005 09:44:33 EST, (Gary V.
Deutschmann, Sr.) wrote:

>Hi Tre
>
>NO!
>
>DI resins are an adsorbent of sorts not absorbent, they exchange ion
>molecules. Like an electro magnet picks up iron filings and when you
>kill the juice, the iron filings fall off.
>
>Most DI columns consist of both positive and negative ion exchange
>resins. In some columns these resins are mixed together, which can
>cause them to self deplete to a certain extent.
>
>The idea behind mixing the resins in a single cylinder is to help
>prevent folks from recharging, because both types of resins are
>charged differently.
>
>But fortunately, the two resins have different specific gravities.
>AND the base recharge chemical when mixed properly is at just the
>right specific gravity that it separates the negative resin and
>recharges it, while it allows the positive resin to float to the top
>for easy removal and recharging to it's positive state.
>
>After you have separated the resins, you really don't want to mix them
>back up again. If you are using a AP-TWP Cylinder, ideally you would
>want to have three of them on hand. One for the carbon section, one
>for the anion resin and one for the cation resin.
>
>Once the resins are separated into their own cylinders, subsequent
>rechargings are a snap and only require filling them with the
>solution, letting them sit, then draining and rinsing and they are as
>good as new.
>
>The only part of the resins that fail over time is the color change
>indicator dye. So we suggest setting aside a few tablespoons of this
>resin to use in a small clear pillbottle to test the output, until you
>know how many gallons you can get between each recharge. Then you can
>go by gallonage rather than watching a color change indicator.
>
>The directions for separating the resins and recharging the AP-TWP or
>any other cylinder is on my webpage. At the end of the instructions
>is a link to the two formulas and how to mix them.
>Recharging uses two normally readily available products.
>Lewis Red Devil 100% PURE Lye from your grocery store drain cleaning
>aisle.
>And Muriatic Acid from your local hardware store, usually in the
>masonry aisle.
>
>http://archimedes.galilei.com/raiar
>Then look for the DI-TWP recharge instructions.
>
>I recharged a set of six DI-TWP cylinders over well over 500 times
>with no decrease in performance. Actually, they worked much better
>after the resins were separated so they wouldn't neutralize
>themselves.
>Output from the recharged cylinders was consistantly between .05 and
>06 MicroSiemens.
>
>TTUL
>Gary
>



Thank you.

[Tre' Landrum]

Great! Thanks!

"Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Hi Tre
>
> NO!
>
> DI resins are an adsorbent of sorts not absorbent, they exchange ion
> molecules. Like an electro magnet picks up iron filings and when you
> kill the juice, the iron filings fall off.
>
> Most DI columns consist of both positive and negative ion exchange
> resins. In some columns these resins are mixed together, which can
> cause them to self deplete to a certain extent.
>
> The idea behind mixing the resins in a single cylinder is to help
> prevent folks from recharging, because both types of resins are
> charged differently.
>
> But fortunately, the two resins have different specific gravities.
> AND the base recharge chemical when mixed properly is at just the
> right specific gravity that it separates the negative resin and
> recharges it, while it allows the positive resin to float to the top
> for easy removal and recharging to it's positive state.
>
> After you have separated the resins, you really don't want to mix them
> back up again. If you are using a AP-TWP Cylinder, ideally you would
> want to have three of them on hand. One for the carbon section, one
> for the anion resin and one for the cation resin.
>
> Once the resins are separated into their own cylinders, subsequent
> rechargings are a snap and only require filling them with the
> solution, letting them sit, then draining and rinsing and they are as
> good as new.
>
> The only part of the resins that fail over time is the color change
> indicator dye. So we suggest setting aside a few tablespoons of this
> resin to use in a small clear pillbottle to test the output, until you
> know how many gallons you can get between each recharge. Then you can
> go by gallonage rather than watching a color change indicator.
>
> The directions for separating the resins and recharging the AP-TWP or
> any other cylinder is on my webpage. At the end of the instructions
> is a link to the two formulas and how to mix them.
> Recharging uses two normally readily available products.
> Lewis Red Devil 100% PURE Lye from your grocery store drain cleaning
> aisle.
> And Muriatic Acid from your local hardware store, usually in the
> masonry aisle.
>
> http://archimedes.galilei.com/raiar
> Then look for the DI-TWP recharge instructions.
>
> I recharged a set of six DI-TWP cylinders over well over 500 times
> with no decrease in performance. Actually, they worked much better
> after the resins were separated so they wouldn't neutralize
> themselves.
> Output from the recharged cylinders was consistantly between .05 and
> 06 MicroSiemens.
>
> TTUL
> Gary
>
>

[kryppy]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:35:33 -0600, RicSeyler >
wrote:

>Maybe the high heat thing I was thinking about was recharging carbon.


I'd like to do that! I have gloves. :)

Anyone know how???

[Charles Spitzer]

"kryppy" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:35:33 -0600, RicSeyler >
> wrote:
>
>>Maybe the high heat thing I was thinking about was recharging carbon.
>
>
> I'd like to do that! I have gloves. :)
>
> Anyone know how???

do you have an oven that can do a couple of thousand degrees?

[Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.]

Hi Ric

If you buy MUWAC, it can be recharged just by laying it in the sun to
dry out.

MUWAC is REAL WOOD, but fired to near ceramic consistency.
Comes in Logs, Chunks, Granuals and Fine.

Trouble is, I have no idea who carries it now, unless Monolith Marine
Monsters can still get it.

TTUL
Gary

[kryppy]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:47:04 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
> wrote:

>
>"kryppy" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:35:33 -0600, RicSeyler >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Maybe the high heat thing I was thinking about was recharging carbon.
>>
>>
>> I'd like to do that! I have gloves. :)
>>
>> Anyone know how???
>
>do you have an oven that can do a couple of thousand degrees?
>


No, but I have large tanks of oxygen and acetylene that can burn that
hot.

[kryppy]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 14:27:53 -0600, RicSeyler >
wrote:

>LOL
>I'll stick with just to going out and buy a new bag of carbon for a few
>bucks.


Haha, I guess I will as well.
I was really wanting to add a giant carbon filter to my well water.
Seems like an expensive deal to change it every six months though.