sick fish help [Archive] - FishKeepingBanter.com

January 2nd 05, 10:15 PM

Jo Ann Burke is the leading expert in the U.S. on health, diseases and treatment of
Goldfish. Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
GF (and sold the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
best. but, if phoning is out of the question, you can try email put "help sick fish"
in subject. It would be a good idea to fill out this form
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/sf_form.html as completely as possible.

Also, Puregold is a list for people at all levels of fish keeping with special
emphasis on helping people new to keeping goldfish. We do talk about ponds and koi
as well. It is a very friendly list to newbies. To subscribe,
http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/puregold/

Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ Windsong ~

January 3rd 05, 05:17 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann Burke is the leading expert in the U.S. on health, diseases and
treatment of
> Goldfish. Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired
from selling
======================
These repeat posts are bordering on spam. Let her post and reply *here* for
everyone to learn or hear what she has to say (post). Spam is not
appreciated on any NG.
--
Carol....
"A good scapegoat is nearly as welcome as a solution
to the problem."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lilly

January 3rd 05, 07:25 PM

Ah, so you choose to answer my "put up or shut up" posts with yet
another post about the all knowing and all giving JoAnn?

Well Ingrid, that's okay sweetie. We are the heathens, JoAnn the Guru.
Goddess forbid, we/I should never have asked for certifications,
licenses or proof of expertise about The Guru! Forgive us, please?

I realize now that you need to live in a world who's sky is green
w/pink polka dots. It's okay. We understand. Really, we do. So, go back
to "Your Own Private Idaho" and maybe we'll even take up a collection
to help you pay for your meds.

from blue sky country...Lilly

[email protected]

January 4th 05, 02:03 AM

Tom L. La Bron

January 4th 05, 04:46 AM

Ingrid,

Who else besides you says she is an expert? It is sure funny that no known
official organization lists her as an expert, besides you. It would seem to
me that at least the GFSA would list her, but they don't, if she really was
the leading expert in the U.S.

Has she written any books (I am not talking about theB&W photocopied health
book that she charged people for when she was in Business; if you want a
real book with color pictures and indepth help get Doc Johnson's book or ge
the Fancy Goldfish Book by Rick Hess and Doc Johnson) or written any papers?

Come on Ingrid, quit being her mouth piece. If she is so great and since
she is now retired from the Goldfish business, I think she would have plenty
of time to be able to talk for herself now, if she really wants to help
people so freely.

Tom L.L.
==================================
> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann Burke is the leading expert in the U.S. on health, diseases and
> treatment of
> Goldfish. Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired
> from selling
> GF (and sold the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she
> has NOT
> retired from helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790
> phoning is
> best. but, if phoning is out of the question, you can try email put "help
> sick fish"
> in subject. It would be a good idea to fill out this
> form
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/sf_form.html as completely as
> possible.
>
>
> Also, Puregold is a list for people at all levels of fish keeping with
> special
> emphasis on helping people new to keeping goldfish. We do talk about
> ponds and koi
> as well. It is a very friendly list to newbies. To subscribe,
> http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/puregold/
>
> Ingrid
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

zookeeper

January 4th 05, 07:50 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann Burke is the leading expert in the U.S. on health, diseases and
treatment of
> Goldfish ... ad nauseum ...

Is your computer burping, or are you deliberately posting, and reposting,
this "info" day after day after day .... ???? Enough already. People can use
Google to check previous messages for info -- you don't need to keep feeding
it into our systems.
--
Zk

Troll Hunter

January 4th 05, 08:06 AM

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote in message
...
> Ingrid,
>
> Who else besides you says she is an expert? It is sure funny that no
known
> official organization lists her as an expert, besides you. It would seem
to
> me that at least the GFSA would list her, but they don't, if she really
was
the leading expert in the U.S.
>
> Has she written any books (I am not talking about theB&W photocopied
health
> book that she charged people for when she was in Business; if you want a
> real book with color pictures and indepth help get Doc Johnson's book or
ge
> the Fancy Goldfish Book by Rick Hess and Doc Johnson) or written any
papers?
>
> Come on Ingrid, quit being her mouth piece. If she is so great and since
> she is now retired from the Goldfish business, I think she would have
plenty
> of time to be able to talk for herself now, if she really wants to help
> people so freely.
====================
I can't help being suspicious as to why she wants people to call her
privately. What is there to hide? Since she has access to a PC why doesn't
she post here if she wants to help people so much? I wonder if she
recommends products to people, products sold by the very people who bought
her business. Just a thought.....
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Forgive your enemies. It messes with their heads."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Huey Conway

January 4th 05, 01:00 PM

> wrote in message
...
>===<>> Jo Ann Burke is the leading expert in the U.S. on health, diseases and
>===<>treatment of
>===<>> Goldfish ... ad nauseum ...
WTF..ROFLMAO......Seems no one has heard of here in quite a few of the
other forums either.........Just a self touting wanna be IMNSHO.

"The Leading Expert on ........" what a laugh.....actually I mean
joke!

Lilly

January 4th 05, 03:55 PM

Huey, what's even funnier is that she "responds" by quoting her
original post/spam to this thread as a response!
Thanks for the chuckles Ingrid. ROFLMAOWTIME.

Lilly

[email protected]

January 4th 05, 11:18 PM

Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
Ingrid

"Troll Hunter" > wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Benign Vanilla

January 5th 05, 02:45 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.

> Ingrid
<snip>

Ingrid...too much. Way too much.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

~ Windsong ~

January 5th 05, 04:34 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://undandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE.

$$ Then let her post here like others do. What is she hiding for? She has
a computer and 'net access.

666-666-666 phoning is best for
> diagnosis.

$$ She must be God to diagnose illness, infestations and disease over the
phone. Anyone who thinks this can be done needs their head examined. I
can't help wonder how many products she recommends being sold by those who
bought her business.

but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> Ingrid

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 5th 05, 04:40 AM

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
> GF (and sold
> > the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired
> from
> > helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
> best for
> > diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>
> > Ingrid
> <snip>
>
> Ingrid...too much. Way too much.
=============================
This Joann sycophant doesn't care how she abuses Usenet with her SPAM. And
spam it is. She could put a small sigfile under her name on her messages
and spare us these boring redundant butt-kissing-Joann posts.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Pricelessware: FREE SOFTWARE
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 5th 05, 04:46 AM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Huey, what's even funnier is that she "responds" by quoting her
> original post/spam to this thread as a response!
> Thanks for the chuckles Ingrid. ROFLMAOWTIME.
=====================================
I'm surprised her ISP allows her to keep spamming Usenet for her good
friend. Most ISPs would not allow it. The more she does this the more I'm
convinced JoAnn doesn't post here because she doesn't want anyone
knowledgeable to question her advice and opinions. Anyone can say anything
over a phone-line. You can help people over the phone but you cannot
diagnose disease and infestations that way. What ever happened to scrapings
etc? Whose products does JoAnn recommend when suckers call her? What proof
is there that she is some kind of "expert?"
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newbie Bill

January 5th 05, 08:05 AM

I am trying to say this very gently, but I am VERY surprised at the tone of
many of your responses in this thread. Virtually everyone one of you has
given me some advice over the past year and I sincerely appreciate it. I am
so sorry you feel it necessary to berate Ingrid or in absentia Jo Ann.
Ingrid loves Jo Ann and as best I can tell Jo Ann is a very caring person.
I definitely have her number in my book now and am VERY thankful to know if
I have a problem requiring immediate action she might be there.

Perhaps Jo Ann does not have umimpeachable creditials and perhaps Ingrid has
mentioned her and her creditials too often? But if she is willing to help
on an immediate one on one basis that's just gotta be a good thing. Thank
you Ingrid for your persistence, and assistance I see you offering in many
groups. And thank you fellow Porgers for all you also do. It's all good!
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Derek Broughton

January 5th 05, 02:49 PM

wrote:

> Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
> GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
> from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
> best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> Ingrid

And you're the "victim" here? So you, Tom and Carol have a disagreement.
Grow up and get over it.
--
derek

Derek Broughton

January 5th 05, 03:15 PM

Newbie Bill wrote:
>
> Perhaps Jo Ann does not have umimpeachable creditials and perhaps Ingrid
> has
> mentioned her and her creditials too often? But if she is willing to help
> on an immediate one on one basis that's just gotta be a good thing. Thank
> you Ingrid for your persistence, and assistance I see you offering in many
> groups. And thank you fellow Porgers for all you also do. It's all good!
> Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Hey, I have no problem with Ingrid blowing Jo Ann's horn - though I wonder
why Jo Ann can't do it herself - but now that she's responding to every
post directed her way with the same advertisement it goes beyond annoying.
--
derek

Newbie Bill

January 5th 05, 04:37 PM

Derek - I definitely didnt join this thread to continue this silly quibble.
I definitely don't want to start one with you. Perhaps Ingrids 'answer' or
just to emphasize she posted to give information not to argue. As far as Jo
Ann (whom I have never talked with) - it has been my experience that
helpful, generous people rarely blow their own horn.

I can see how people could be put off by multiple posts.
Have Fun everyone! And thanxx again for all the positive help you provide!
Bill Brister

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> Newbie Bill wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps Jo Ann does not have umimpeachable creditials and perhaps Ingrid
>> has
>> mentioned her and her creditials too often? But if she is willing to
>> help
>> on an immediate one on one basis that's just gotta be a good thing.
>> Thank
>> you Ingrid for your persistence, and assistance I see you offering in
>> many
>> groups. And thank you fellow Porgers for all you also do. It's all
>> good!
>> Bill Brister - Austin, Texas
>
> Hey, I have no problem with Ingrid blowing Jo Ann's horn - though I wonder
> why Jo Ann can't do it herself - but now that she's responding to every
> post directed her way with the same advertisement it goes beyond annoying.
> --
> derek

Lilly

January 5th 05, 05:33 PM

Lilly

January 5th 05, 05:38 PM

Because if she were to pop her head above see-level it would promptly
be shot at.

I'm not the only one that remembers the history. But, the newer folks
here don't know the real history of JoAnn and Ingrid. For instance,
over the past decade or so I have seen;

....the outright bad information, information that was mostly harmless,
and overtly commercial "help" given on various NGs since the middle
90s. This is a category so big it deserves a NG all it's own. One of my
favorites was JoAnn telling the original GF NG that her carbon was
rechargeable and to do this you would "give it a good blast with a
garden hose". Bunk. It takes a kiln to burn off the impurities.

....a fishy doctor's work ripped off, lightly massaged, and passed off
as her own (JoAnn).

....other's who have had their ideas ripped off too, with JoAnn calling
it something slightly different, then claiming it as hers.

It's ludicrous the ends that these two will go to to prop themselves
up. Consider this thread a public service and the "Newbie Alert
System".

Lilly

Troll Hunter wrote:
> ====================
> I can't help being suspicious as to why she wants people to call her
> privately. What is there to hide? Since she has access to a PC why
doesn't
> she post here if she wants to help people so much? I wonder if she
> recommends products to people, products sold by the very people who
bought
> her business. Just a thought.....
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> "Forgive your enemies. It messes with their heads."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 5th 05, 06:44 PM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Because if she were to pop her head above see-level it would promptly
> be shot at.

## So she hides like a toad in the hostas.

> I'm not the only one that remembers the history. But, the newer folks
> here don't know the real history of JoAnn and Ingrid. For instance,
> over the past decade or so I have seen;
>
> ...the outright bad information, information that was mostly harmless,
> and overtly commercial "help" given on various NGs since the middle
> 90s. This is a category so big it deserves a NG all it's own. One of my
> favorites was JoAnn telling the original GF NG that her carbon was
> rechargeable and to do this you would "give it a good blast with a
> garden hose". Bunk. It takes a kiln to burn off the impurities.

## Yes. I remember this BS scam well. When questioned on this "hose
recharging" my head was bitten off by Ingrid. A search of the net made
clear this "recharge with a hose" claim was utter lies. Complete BS! But
both of them PUSHED this carbon and pushed it, and pushed it ad nauseum. It
must have been VERY profitable for them. Something Joann paid $1 a lb for
and sold for $15 a lb.

> ...a fishy doctor's work ripped off, lightly massaged, and passed off
> as her own (JoAnn).
> ...other's who have had their ideas ripped off too, with JoAnn calling
> it something slightly different, then claiming it as hers.
>
> It's ludicrous the ends that these two will go to to prop themselves
> up. Consider this thread a public service and the "Newbie Alert
> System".
>
> Lilly

## When confronted with all the misinformation they were spreading on the
1st GF list, Ingrid started a list of her own where no questioning was
allowed. No proof they were WRONG about anything was allowed. It was
considered "flaming." You can be sure anyone on her "private" little GF
list now are hand picked "newbies" ignorant of their past who wouldn't think
of questioning anything. And you can also be sure it's a place to PUSH the
products sold by the new owners of Joann's old business.

To add insult to injury here she SPAMS us to death.... the whole thing
between them is bizarre!
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"There's always one more s.o.b. than you counted on."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lilly

January 5th 05, 07:07 PM

~ Windsong ~ writes on Jan 5, 10:44 am
> So she hides like a toad in the hostas

That's not a very nice thing to say about Toads. The Toad Community is
seeking legal representation for this slanderous statement and will be
seeing you in court. ;-)

Lilly

~ Windsong ~

January 5th 05, 09:13 PM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> ~ Windsong ~ writes on Jan 5, 10:44 am
> > So she hides like a toad in the hostas
>
> That's not a very nice thing to say about Toads. The Toad Community is
> seeking legal representation for this slanderous statement and will be
> seeing you in court. ;-)
>
> Lilly
=========================
LOL!!! WHAT was I thinking..... :-D
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Back up my hard drive? How do I put it in reverse?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Derek Broughton

January 6th 05, 12:00 AM

Lilly wrote:

> ~ Windsong ~ writes on Jan 5, 10:44 am
>> So she hides like a toad in the hostas
>
> That's not a very nice thing to say about Toads. The Toad Community is
> seeking legal representation for this slanderous statement and will be
> seeing you in court. ;-)
>
Thanks, Lilly, I was thinking the same. Carol, consider yourself
chastised...
--
derek

[email protected]

January 8th 05, 10:15 PM

when the bashing stops, so will my reposts. Ingrid

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling
>GF (and sold
>> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
>from
>> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
>best for
>> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.

>> Ingrid
><snip>
>
>Ingrid...too much. Way too much.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 8th 05, 10:16 PM

Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
Ingrid

"~ Windsong ~" > wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 8th 05, 10:54 PM

The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming is that when I correct the
mis-information it does absolutely no good.
Jo Ann did not use nor sell "activated carbon", the stuff that is normally sold in
LFS or on the internet and must be heated to high temps for reuse.
Jo Ann found out that city water treatment plants used anthracite for water
purification.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=water+purification+plants+anthracite
She was able to find a source of this milled to the size of rice grains and used this
in her filters and sold it. It is indeed reusable after forceful back washing
because chemicals are not absorbed into it, rather adsorbed onto it. It is of
course, no where near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated carbon, but it
is reusable.
Last time I looked the U.S. is a free market system. Sellers get to charge what they
think they can sell it for and buyers can pay the price, not pay the price or get it
somewhere else. Ingrid

"Lilly" > wrote:
One of my
>favorites was JoAnn telling the original GF NG that her carbon was
>rechargeable and to do this you would "give it a good blast with a
>garden hose". Bunk. It takes a kiln to burn off the impurities.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ Windsong ~

January 8th 05, 11:36 PM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann asked me to remind

** How about telling Joann people are sick of your SPAM and to tell people
herself. What is she hiding USING you?

people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandy$$$$orandas.com/)

** Let Ken Fisher advertise his own business.

she has NOT retired from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
best for
> diagnosis.

** Diagnosing disease and parasites over a phone. Now I heard
everything.......

but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.

> Ingrid
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 8th 05, 11:37 PM

You bring it on yourself with your unwanted SPAM and FLOODING.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> wrote in message
...
> when the bashing stops, so will my reposts. Ingrid
>
> "Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling
> >GF (and sold
> >> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired
> >from
> >> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
> >best for
> >> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>
> >> Ingrid
> ><snip>
> >
> >Ingrid...too much. Way too much.

[email protected]

January 8th 05, 11:43 PM

Mostly because Jo Ann just doesnt have the time. She is on Puregold and tries to
help people there, but there are now so many other people on the list know what they
are doing that mostly our help isnt usually needed.
Trying to help people with their sick fish by emailing back and forth is very very
difficult. People leave out so much that is important and by the time they get back
with those answers it is easy to forget what the problem was. When Jo Ann talks
directly to people she can ask/get answers immediately that gives her a "picture" of
what the problem most is. After 30 years in dealing with sick goldfish from all over
the US and even the world she has a pretty good idea of what could be wrong and the
best treatment.
Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming on all the
time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the phone number of somebody
can help them right away and for free .....
Ingrid

Derek Broughton > wrote:
>Hey, I have no problem with Ingrid blowing Jo Ann's horn - though I wonder
>why Jo Ann can't do it herself - but now that she's responding to every
>post directed her way with the same advertisement it goes beyond annoying.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ Windsong ~

January 8th 05, 11:44 PM

> wrote in message
...
> The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming is that when I
correct the
> mis-information it does absolutely no good.

$$ You cannot correct the fact that you and Joann were pushing some magic
charcoal that you both claimed was recharged with plain "hose water" for
example. No one is flaming you. They're pointing out what occurred in the
past and warning the new people not to get taken in. And then you SPAM us
with constant redundant posts pushing both Joann and the new owners of her
business.

> Jo Ann did not use nor sell "activated carbon", the stuff that is normally
sold in
> LFS or on the internet and must be heated to high temps for reuse.
> Jo Ann found out that city water treatment plants used anthracite for
water
> purification.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=water+purification+plants+anthracite
> She was able to find a source of this milled to the size of rice grains
and used this
> in her filters and sold it. It is indeed reusable after forceful back
washing
> because chemicals are not absorbed into it, rather adsorbed onto it. It
is of
> course, no where near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated
carbon, but it
> is reusable.

$$ Uh,.. let's get honest Ingrid. Neither of you claimed it was "no where
near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated carbon, but it is
reusable."

> Last time I looked the U.S. is a free market system. Sellers get to
charge what they
> think they can sell it for

$$ Making untrue claims to push sales, and attacking anyone who questioned
the product.

and buyers can pay the price, not pay the price or get it
> somewhere else.

$$ Sickening.....

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
--------- ><>
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[email protected]

January 9th 05, 12:28 AM

and here is the perfect example of what I was saying "The main reason I dont respond
to any of the flaming is that when I correct the mis-information it does absolutely
no good."

http://www.apswater.com/page127.html
"Although its potential for water treatment has been recognized since ancient times,
anthracite coal was not used for that purpose until the beginning of this century.
Crushed anthracite makes an excellent medium density filtration media. Anthracite has
been manufactured from the finest Pennsylvania coal since 1932. It is specifically
selected for water treatment, and during its production goes through several sizing
inspections. Random samples are chosen for a complete laboratory quality control
analysis for effective size, uniformity coefficient, specific gravity, acid
solubility, and hardness.
Because of its fractured shape, some sediment penetrates deeper into the bed. When
compared to equivalent filter sands., this means longer filter runs and less head
loss. Backwash rates are also reduced.
Anthracite, because of its unique density can be used in multi-media filters. At 56
lbs./ft. 3 it will hydraulically classify and remain above heavier medial such as
Filter Sand or Manganese Greensand providing a prefiltration layer.
Advantages:
Higher service flows and longer filter runs than equivalent sand filters.
Close attention to gradation, hardness and purity assures consistent and
reliable performance.
Unique density allows Anthracite to be combined with other filtration media in
multi-media filters.
Conditions For Operation:
Bed Depth - 24 - 36 in.
Backwash Rate - #1 (12-19 gpm/ft.2), #1 -1/2 (18-25 gpm/ft.2), #2 (use air
scour)
Backwash Bed Expansion - 30-50% of bed depth
Service Flow Rate - 5 gpm/sq. ft. or higher depending upon local conditions."

we discussed the difference as far back as 1997: found using google
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish/browse_frm/thread/8bd65a2728ec9f2a/ff97c39e587ff31a?q=anthracite+filter&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Danthracite+filter%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#ff97c39e587ff31a
" Hard coal or anthracite is a dense, shiny coal that has a high
carbon content and little volatile matter and burns with a clean flame.
This density is what is working for Jo Ann. Being dense it has a higher
molecular attraction, which is what attracts the materials from the
water. It is the same attraction that activated charcoal uses through
its increased surface area, but the attraction is less than that in the
anthracite because of the molecular distance because of the popcorn
effect in the activated carbon. It is looser bond together than that of
the anthracite. The fact that the anthracite is so dense increases the
molecular attraction and because it is not porous the offending material
can be "washed" off with a high pressure water. I have never used any of
Jo Ann's anthracite, but I can only conjecture that you would use pretty
small pieces to get as much surface area with the anthracite because of
its density since it is not porous.

The high pressure water cleaning is why many water plants around
the country use anthracite vice activated charcoal for it cuts down on
cost and does a similar job. Now in industrial and scientific situation
anthracite can not do the job of activated carbon or charcoal, but for
our requirements it is fine.

Hope this helps every one to maybe understand this process a little
better.

God Bless and Keep You and Yours,

Have a Great 1997, Regards from Pawnee America
Tom La Bron"

Ingrid

"~ Windsong ~" > wrote:
>$$ You cannot correct the fact that you and Joann were pushing some magic
>charcoal that you both claimed was recharged with plain "hose water" for
>example.
>$$ Uh,.. let's get honest Ingrid. Neither of you claimed it was "no where
>near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated carbon, but it is
>reusable."
>$$ Making untrue claims to push sales, and attacking anyone who questioned
>the product.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Doug Brown

January 9th 05, 12:59 AM

So anthracite can be used for mechanical filtration but nowhere in this
propaganda does it claim that anthracite performs any chemical filtration.
Basically anthracite is fancy filter sand! Therefore it is not equivalent
to or interchangeable with GAC. GAC is not intended to perform any
mechanical or biological filtration, although over time it will begin to do
both. GAC is intended to perform chemical filtration only.

So, anthracite is not GAC.
> wrote in message
...
> and here is the perfect example of what I was saying "The main reason I
dont respond
> to any of the flaming is that when I correct the mis-information it does
absolutely
> no good."
>
> http://www.apswater.com/page127.html
> "Although its potential for water treatment has been recognized since
ancient times,
> anthracite coal was not used for that purpose until the beginning of this
century.
> Crushed anthracite makes an excellent medium density filtration media.
Anthracite has
> been manufactured from the finest Pennsylvania coal since 1932. It is
specifically
> selected for water treatment, and during its production goes through
several sizing
> inspections. Random samples are chosen for a complete laboratory quality
control
> analysis for effective size, uniformity coefficient, specific gravity,
acid
> solubility, and hardness.
> Because of its fractured shape, some sediment penetrates deeper into the
bed. When
> compared to equivalent filter sands., this means longer filter runs and
less head
> loss. Backwash rates are also reduced.
> Anthracite, because of its unique density can be used in multi-media
filters. At 56
> lbs./ft. 3 it will hydraulically classify and remain above heavier medial
such as
> Filter Sand or Manganese Greensand providing a prefiltration layer.
> Advantages:
> Higher service flows and longer filter runs than equivalent sand
filters.
> Close attention to gradation, hardness and purity assures consistent
and
> reliable performance.
> Unique density allows Anthracite to be combined with other filtration
media in
> multi-media filters.
> Conditions For Operation:
> Bed Depth - 24 - 36 in.
> Backwash Rate - #1 (12-19 gpm/ft.2), #1 -1/2 (18-25 gpm/ft.2), #2
(use air
> scour)
> Backwash Bed Expansion - 30-50% of bed depth
> Service Flow Rate - 5 gpm/sq. ft. or higher depending upon local
conditions."
>
> we discussed the difference as far back as 1997: found using google
>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish/browse_frm/thread/8bd65a2728ec9f2a/ff97c39e587ff31a?q=anthracite+filter&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fq%3Danthracite+filter%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#ff97c39e587ff31a
> " Hard coal or anthracite is a dense, shiny coal that has a high
> carbon content and little volatile matter and burns with a clean flame.
> This density is what is working for Jo Ann. Being dense it has a higher
> molecular attraction, which is what attracts the materials from the
> water. It is the same attraction that activated charcoal uses through
> its increased surface area, but the attraction is less than that in the
> anthracite because of the molecular distance because of the popcorn
> effect in the activated carbon. It is looser bond together than that of
> the anthracite. The fact that the anthracite is so dense increases the
> molecular attraction and because it is not porous the offending material
> can be "washed" off with a high pressure water. I have never used any of
> Jo Ann's anthracite, but I can only conjecture that you would use pretty
> small pieces to get as much surface area with the anthracite because of
> its density since it is not porous.
>
> The high pressure water cleaning is why many water plants around
> the country use anthracite vice activated charcoal for it cuts down on
> cost and does a similar job. Now in industrial and scientific situation
> anthracite can not do the job of activated carbon or charcoal, but for
> our requirements it is fine.
>
> Hope this helps every one to maybe understand this process a little
> better.
>
> God Bless and Keep You and Yours,
>
> Have a Great 1997, Regards from Pawnee America
> Tom La Bron"
>
> Ingrid
>
>
> "~ Windsong ~" > wrote:
> >$$ You cannot correct the fact that you and Joann were pushing some magic
> >charcoal that you both claimed was recharged with plain "hose water" for
> >example.
> >$$ Uh,.. let's get honest Ingrid. Neither of you claimed it was "no
where
> >near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated carbon, but it is
> >reusable."
> >$$ Making untrue claims to push sales, and attacking anyone who
questioned
> >the product.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 9th 05, 01:02 AM

RE: Activated Carbon vs. Anthracite Coal

>Hope this helps every one to maybe understand this process a little
>better.

Helped me. ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ Windsong ~

January 9th 05, 04:44 AM

> wrote in message
...
> and here is the perfect example of what I was saying "The main reason I
dont respond
> to any of the flaming

## What "flaming?" Exposing someone, and discussing what happened in the
past is not "Flaming." And you are SPAMMING us with repetitious posts
regarding Joann an the business she sold.

is that when I correct the mis-information it does absolutely
> no good."

## The only misinformation came from Joann and yourself regarding the two
products that have been mentioned here. When several people including
myself questioned *anything* you or Joann claimed you got rude and finally
left the list to start your own. When someone questions YOU on anything,
you call it "flaming" as an excuse to ban them. You can get away with it on
your private list but not HERE. This is a public NG.

SNIP the information you presented. We were led to believe this product
acted like activated charcoal found in pet shops and online. This
information was not presented to us. It was to take the place of the
charcoals some of is were using. It wasn't even close.......
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 9th 05, 04:48 AM

"Doug Brown" > wrote in message
...
> So anthracite can be used for mechanical filtration but nowhere in this
> propaganda does it claim that anthracite performs any chemical filtration.

## BINGO!!!!

> Basically anthracite is fancy filter sand! Therefore it is not equivalent
> to or interchangeable with GAC.

## We were led to believe it was!

GAC is not intended to perform any
> mechanical or biological filtration, although over time it will begin to
do
> both. GAC is intended to perform chemical filtration only.

## I hope no one fell for this and purchased it at the time thinking it was
equal to or better than the Activated Charcoal they were using at the time.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
--------- }<((((o>
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 9th 05, 04:55 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Mostly because Jo Ann just doesnt have the time. She is on Puregold and
tries to
> help people there, but there are now so many other people on the list know
what they
> are doing that mostly our help isnt usually needed.

## A bit of a contradiction no? If her help isn't "usually needed" there
on your private list, then she has the time to come HERE and help people.

> Trying to help people with their sick fish by emailing back and forth is
very very
> difficult. People leave out so much that is important and by the time
they get back
> with those answers it is easy to forget what the problem was. When Jo Ann
talks
> directly to people she can ask/get answers immediately that gives her a
"picture" of
> what the problem most is. After 30 years in dealing with sick goldfish
from all over
> the US and even the world she has a pretty good idea of what could be
wrong and the
> best treatment.

## And let me guess who she recommends to purchase those "TREATMENTS" from?
1. The people who purchased her business.
2. The people who purchased her business.
3. The people who purchased her business.

> Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming on
all the
> time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the phone number
of somebody
> can help them right away and for free .....

## This is male bovine excreta Ingrid. You know how to make a sigfile for
under you name. Put your advertising information down there instead of
spamming us with Joann and the business she sold. The newbies will see it.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org
http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[email protected]

January 9th 05, 04:57 AM

yeah ... it can/is used to remove organic compounds. Ingrid
http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/zag/hydrogeochemie/download/SorptionOMCoal.PDF
http://www.pollutionengineering.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,6649,111316,00.html

"Doug Brown" > wrote:
>So anthracite can be used for mechanical filtration but nowhere <snip>
does it claim that anthracite performs any chemical filtration.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Puregold Goldfish List

January 9th 05, 02:21 PM

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:16:19 GMT, wrote:

>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

[email protected]

January 9th 05, 03:47 PM

activated carbon - 2 weeks - tossed
anthracite -reusable- years.
1 lb Marineland Black Diamond Premium Activated Carbon $8.49 on sale (w/o ship)
1 lb of milled anthracite was @ $8 w/ shipping

Ingrid

>## I hope no one fell for this and purchased it at the time thinking it was
>equal to or better than the Activated Charcoal they were using at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Grubber

January 9th 05, 03:52 PM

"~ Windsong ~" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Mostly because Jo Ann just doesnt have the time. She is on Puregold and
> tries to
> > help people there, but there are now so many other people on the list
know
> what they
> > are doing that mostly our help isnt usually needed.
>
> ## A bit of a contradiction no? If her help isn't "usually needed" there
> on your private list, then she has the time to come HERE and help people.
>
> > Trying to help people with their sick fish by emailing back and forth is
> very very
> > difficult. People leave out so much that is important and by the time
> they get back
> > with those answers it is easy to forget what the problem was. When Jo
Ann
> talks
> > directly to people she can ask/get answers immediately that gives her a
> "picture" of
> > what the problem most is. After 30 years in dealing with sick goldfish
> from all over
> > the US and even the world she has a pretty good idea of what could be
> wrong and the
> > best treatment.
>
> ## And let me guess who she recommends to purchase those "TREATMENTS"
from?
> 1. The people who purchased her business.
> 2. The people who purchased her business.
> 3. The people who purchased her business.
>
> > Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming
on
> all the
> > time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the phone
number
> of somebody
> > can help them right away and for free .....
>
> ## This is male bovine excreta Ingrid. You know how to make a sigfile for
> under you name. Put your advertising information down there instead of
> spamming us with Joann and the business she sold. The newbies will see
it.
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> "If At First You Don't Succeed,
> Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
> http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
> Completely FREE software:
> http://www.pricelessware.org
> http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

I've kf'd Ingrid and several of your addresses already, but this thread
keeps coming back. Could you please stop changing your info so I can stop
being bothered by your bickering?

~ WIndsong ~

January 9th 05, 06:29 PM

Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:21:09 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.148.75
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1105280469 199.174.148.75 (Sun, 09
Jan 2005 06:21:09 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 06:21:09 PST

============FLOODING AND SPAM ABUSE:
"Puregold Goldfish List" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:16:19 GMT, wrote:
>
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
> >===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from
selling GF (and sold
> >===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT
retired from
> >===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning
is best for
> >===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>
> REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
> Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has
retired from selling GF (and sold
> the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired
from
> helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is
best for
> diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your
fish at Dandy Orandas
> Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

~ WIndsong ~

January 9th 05, 06:32 PM

> wrote in message
...
> activated carbon - 2 weeks - tossed
> anthracite -reusable- years.

## Antracite. Worthless, makes someone money. Use fine gravel in same way
and do water changes.

> 1 lb Marineland Black Diamond Premium Activated Carbon $8.49 on sale (w/o
ship)
> 1 lb of milled anthracite was @ $8 w/ shipping

## Anthracite doesn't do what Premium Activated Carbon does.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ WIndsong ~

January 9th 05, 06:34 PM

"Grubber" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I've kf'd Ingrid and several of your addresses already, but this thread
> keeps coming back. Could you please stop changing your info so I can stop
> being bothered by your bickering?
======================
Killfile ~Windsong ~ and not my address. :-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Benign Vanilla

January 9th 05, 08:17 PM

"Puregold Goldfish List" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:16:19 GMT, wrote:
<snip>

Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
others attack you, but don't make us all suffer.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 9th 05, 08:33 PM

>Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
>others attack you, but don't make us all suffer. BV

When Carol stops I'm sure Ingrid will also, it is a case of who has to have
the last word/post. Be amused, I am. ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[email protected]

January 9th 05, 10:22 PM

ooooo... am I really, what fun. You dont care if I get flamed and defamed as long as
I dont post where people can get help?

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
>others attack you, but don't make us all suffer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 9th 05, 10:29 PM

Jo Ann is retired from the GF business, not retired in general. She and Steve are
now buying and selling antique glass and pottery full time. That means driving all
over several states. She doesnt have the time.
Actually, her major recommendations are now and have always been water changes, water
changes, water changes, a bit of salt, PP, Quick Cure, and hydrogen peroxide. She
never really sold any of that, but if people want to buy their water, salt, Quick
Cure, and hydrogen peroxide from Ken I guess they can go right ahead.
Ingrid

"~ Windsong ~" > wrote:
>## A bit of a contradiction no? If her help isn't "usually needed" there
>on your private list, then she has the time to come HERE and help people.
>## And let me guess who she recommends to purchase those "TREATMENTS" from?
>1. The people who purchased her business.
>2. The people who purchased her business.
>3. The people who purchased her business.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 9th 05, 11:44 PM

And.... isn't spamming when you are trying to sell something?

Ingrid has been informing RP, whether we agreed or disagreed about JoAnn's
credentials, she does have years of fish experience is willing to help
others via the phone. Sure isn't something I'd offer up, I hate dealing via
the phone, I can't think that quick. All of sudden it became "Ingrid Bash
Season" I commend Ingrid that she didn't start throwing mud herself. ~ jan

>On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 22:22:09 GMT, wrote:

>ooooo... am I really, what fun. You dont care if I get flamed and defamed as long as
>I dont post where people can get help?
>
>"Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>>Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
>>others attack you, but don't make us all suffer.

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ Windsong ~

January 10th 05, 02:36 AM

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> And.... isn't spamming when you are trying to sell something?

## Yes. Selling or advertising is SPAMMING! No one minds business people
using sigfiles with business information but these posts are nothing BUT
spam! When the SAME post is constantly reposted it's called FLOODING abuse
by some NGs. It isn't fair to the newbies who don't know the history behind
this constant spamming.

> Ingrid has been informing RP, whether we agreed or disagreed about JoAnn's
> credentials, she does have years of fish experience is willing to help
> others via the phone.

## When she does "help" whose products is she selling or pushing? I'd hate
to see someone get taken in - think the Dimilin and hose-rechargeable
charcoal. Once bitten twice careful. I wish someone had warned me.....

Sure isn't something I'd offer up, I hate dealing via
> the phone, I can't think that quick. All of sudden it became "Ingrid Bash
> Season" I commend Ingrid that she didn't start throwing mud herself. ~
jan

## How can she? No one else on this NG is doing all this spamming and
flooding. ;-)
And with that, perhaps she'll have Joann help people here on the NGs instead
of by back-channel, and let DandyOranda SPAM for him/herself. Time to move
on.......
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 10th 05, 02:43 AM

> wrote in message
...
> Jo Ann is retired from the GF business, not retired in general. She and
Steve are
> now buying and selling antique glass and pottery full time. That means
driving all
> over several states. She doesnt have the time.

$$ Then she would certainly not have the time to spend hours on her phone.

> Actually, her major recommendations are now and have always been water
changes, water
> changes, water changes, a bit of salt, PP, Quick Cure, and hydrogen
peroxide.

$$ Rather than spam us, for a friend no less,... why not have this
information on your or her website and when people *ASK* for help - send
them there? Or have the URLS as your sigfile? There are
parasites/infections as we both know, that can't be diagnosed over the
phone.

She
> never really sold any of that, but if people want to buy their water,
salt, Quick
> Cure, and hydrogen peroxide from Ken I guess they can go right ahead.
> Ingrid

$$ Like I said, if she manages to do a diagnosis sight unseen, you can be
sure she'll send them straight to Ken.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tom L. La Bron

January 10th 05, 05:22 AM

Well Ingrid,

Here again you are trying to dazzle us with Horse Pucky. Do you read any of
the crap that you post to the list as reference to see what they are saying.

Yes, anthracite is used in the water purification process, and, yes, is is
low pressure backflushed for cleaning, but it is used like sand and is only
for filtering out the smallest of particles in the water. Nothing is
absorbed into it because it is so hard. The Chemicals that you profess to
collect on it are part of a purification process of nanofilteration where
the chemicals are added by the plant. These chemicals are substances like
Alum, flocculants, Ferrous Sulfate, Polymers, other chemicals like sodium
hexametaphosphate and fluorosilicic acid, and don't forget the Chlorine or
Chloramine what is put in at this time for disinfection. I will agree that
not all these chemcials are used by all plants, but their combinations
allows them to attracted to the antracite where these chemcials have latched
on to the impurities and then collect on the antracite.

So when the BS is cleared away the antracite is just a smaller filtering
material for particulate materials in the water and has absoluting "nothing"
to do with any thing close to what Activated Charcoal can do for water.

So when you and Jo Ann brought this up the first time it was bogus and years
later it is still bogus. Antracite will not do anything that activated
charcoal will do and unless you are replacing your filters that use
polyfiber (filter floss) in your tanks to sand filters you could switch to
antracite instead of the sand for filtration. And for those who want to run
and buy some of this special rice sized antracite you can get it in 56
pounds bags from Res-Kem Corp for particulate filtration of your water.

For any of you who think I am flaming Ingrid (though I know she will think
that I am flaming her because I am proving her wrong) I just read her
reference material that she posted. I will admitted that I only checked the
links on 4 pages, before decided that this was enough to read to find out
what she was implying is bogus.

So I repeat that what Jo Ann and Ingrid posted years ago about antracite was
bogus and it is still bogus.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming is that when I
> correct the
> mis-information it does absolutely no good.
> Jo Ann did not use nor sell "activated carbon", the stuff that is normally
> sold in
> LFS or on the internet and must be heated to high temps for reuse.
> Jo Ann found out that city water treatment plants used anthracite for
> water
> purification.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=water+purification+plants+anthracite
> She was able to find a source of this milled to the size of rice grains
> and used this
> in her filters and sold it. It is indeed reusable after forceful back
> washing
> because chemicals are not absorbed into it, rather adsorbed onto it. It
> is of
> course, no where near as efficient in removing chemicals as activated
> carbon, but it
> is reusable.
> Last time I looked the U.S. is a free market system. Sellers get to
> charge what they
> think they can sell it for and buyers can pay the price, not pay the price
> or get it
> somewhere else. Ingrid
>
> "Lilly" > wrote:
> One of my
>>favorites was JoAnn telling the original GF NG that her carbon was
>>rechargeable and to do this you would "give it a good blast with a
>>garden hose". Bunk. It takes a kiln to burn off the impurities.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

Tom L. La Bron

January 10th 05, 05:30 AM

Ingrid,

Read what you use for references. The first one talks of Bituminous coal
and charcoal, it speaks nothing of antracite. Your second link is referring
to the same thing.

So much for credibility.

Tom L.L.
---------------------------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> yeah ... it can/is used to remove organic compounds. Ingrid
> http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/zag/hydrogeochemie/download/SorptionOMCoal.PDF
> http://www.pollutionengineering.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,6649,111316,00.html
>
> "Doug Brown" > wrote:
>>So anthracite can be used for mechanical filtration but nowhere <snip>
> does it claim that anthracite performs any chemical filtration.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

Tom L. La Bron

January 10th 05, 05:35 AM

Golly Ingrid,

Being on your list must not be that much help or that much of an advantage
if Jo Ann is so busy helping people with problems on your list. You would
think that being on Puregold would have everyone is Goldfish paradise with
no problems at all, with you and Jo Ann there helping at the drop of a hat,
obviously they are not listening or the proper information is not being
given. I wonder what it is.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> Mostly because Jo Ann just doesnt have the time. She is on Puregold and
> tries to
> help people there, but there are now so many other people on the list know
> what they
> are doing that mostly our help isnt usually needed.
> Trying to help people with their sick fish by emailing back and forth is
> very very
> difficult. People leave out so much that is important and by the time
> they get back
> with those answers it is easy to forget what the problem was. When Jo Ann
> talks
> directly to people she can ask/get answers immediately that gives her a
> "picture" of
> what the problem most is. After 30 years in dealing with sick goldfish
> from all over
> the US and even the world she has a pretty good idea of what could be
> wrong and the
> best treatment.
> Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming on
> all the
> time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the phone number
> of somebody
> can help them right away and for free .....
> Ingrid
>
> Derek Broughton > wrote:
>>Hey, I have no problem with Ingrid blowing Jo Ann's horn - though I wonder
>>why Jo Ann can't do it herself - but now that she's responding to every
>>post directed her way with the same advertisement it goes beyond annoying.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 10th 05, 06:37 AM

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:36:39 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:

>>All of sudden it became "Ingrid Bash
>> Season" I commend Ingrid that she didn't start throwing mud herself. ~
>jan
>
>## How can she? No one else on this NG is doing all this spamming and
>flooding. ;-)

We all have idiosyncracies that could be dug from the muck of old posts,
including my own. <blush> What's the old saying about throwing stones? I
think there is less the need here to save newbies, as there is to doing
some winter boredom bashing. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Benign Vanilla

January 10th 05, 06:43 AM

> wrote in message
...
> ooooo... am I really, what fun. You dont care if I get flamed and defamed
as long as
> I dont post where people can get help?
>
> "Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
> >Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
> >others attack you, but don't make us all suffer.

I try to do my best to stay out of he-said, she-said wars. Even in the salt
battles, I have never participated in Ingrid bashing or Joann bashing. I
simply disagree with you.

Either way, when you repond to post after post after post after post with an
ad for Joann, IMHO, it lessens your reputation as a knowledgeable person on
this group. Stick to your know how, and your pond knowledgeable, and don't
stoop to SPAMing the group with ads. I don't care if you tell us about your
list, or Joann...but the repeated ads all week. Really...what does that
accomplish?

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Benign Vanilla

January 10th 05, 06:46 AM

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
> >others attack you, but don't make us all suffer. BV
>
> When Carol stops I'm sure Ingrid will also, it is a case of who has to
have
> the last word/post. Be amused, I am. ;o) ~ jan

I am not amused...much. Ingrid has contributed to this group for a long
time. It ruffles my feathers to see her toss her reputation down the bottom
drain by insessently flooding the group with her Joan ads.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

[email protected]

January 10th 05, 02:47 PM

But Tom, this is what you said back in 1997:

" Hard coal or anthracite is a dense, shiny coal that has a high
carbon content and little volatile matter and burns with a clean flame.
This density is what is working for Jo Ann. Being dense it has a higher
molecular attraction, which is what attracts the materials from the
water. It is the same attraction that activated charcoal uses through
its increased surface area, but the attraction is less than that in the
anthracite because of the molecular distance because of the popcorn
effect in the activated carbon. It is looser bond together than that of
the anthracite. The fact that the anthracite is so dense increases the
molecular attraction and because it is not porous the offending material
can be "washed" off with a high pressure water. I have never used any of
Jo Ann's anthracite, but I can only conjecture that you would use pretty
small pieces to get as much surface area with the anthracite because of
its density since it is not porous.

The high pressure water cleaning is why many water plants around
the country use anthracite vice activated charcoal for it cuts down on
cost and does a similar job. Now in industrial and scientific situation
anthracite can not do the job of activated carbon or charcoal, but for
our requirements it is fine.

Hope this helps every one to maybe understand this process a little
better.

God Bless and Keep You and Yours,

Have a Great 1997, Regards from Pawnee America
Tom La Bron"

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote:
>Here again you are trying to dazzle us with Horse Pucky. Do you read any of
>the crap that you post to the list as reference to see what they are saying.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Benign Vanilla

January 10th 05, 04:09 PM

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:36:39 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:
>
> >>All of sudden it became "Ingrid Bash
> >> Season" I commend Ingrid that she didn't start throwing mud herself. ~
> >jan
> >
> >## How can she? No one else on this NG is doing all this spamming and
> >flooding. ;-)
>
> We all have idiosyncracies that could be dug from the muck of old posts,
> including my own. <blush> What's the old saying about throwing stones? I
> think there is less the need here to save newbies, as there is to doing
> some winter boredom bashing. ~ jan
>

Idiosyncracies? Does that include planting methods?

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/plants
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Derek Broughton

January 10th 05, 07:49 PM

wrote:

> Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming on
> all the time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the phone
> number of somebody can help them right away and for free .....

(a) that's why we have google.
(b) once a month, or even once a week, advertising Jo Ann's services
wouldn't bother me. It was the multiple-times-per-day that got annoying.
--
derek

Derek Broughton

January 10th 05, 07:53 PM

wrote:

> The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming

and continually reposting the same message is not a response?

> is that when I
> correct the mis-information it does absolutely no good.

That's part of the problem. The other part is that you have all the answers
and anybody else's knowledge is wrong if it contradicts yours. Allow
people an opinion once in a while.
--
derek

Lilly

January 10th 05, 08:04 PM

wrote:
> The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming is that when I
correct the
> mis-information it does absolutely no good.

Because it is frequently replaced with yet more "information" from
questionable sources, or it's information that is arrived at in a not
too scientific way (gravel is bad).

> Jo Ann did not use nor sell "activated carbon", the stuff that is
normally sold in
> LFS or on the internet and must be heated to high temps for reuse.

Backpeddle much Ingrid? Gawd I wish I had a copy of that thread. I may
still have it stashed somewhere in my archives. I distinctly remember
Ms. Burke touting it as the "be all end all never have to purchase
carbon again" carbon; carbon that could be "recharged" with a good
squirt from a garden hose. I also see that there are other long time GF
people from the original list that remember it the same way I do. We
can't all be crazy with failing memory.

> Last time I looked the U.S. is a free market system. Sellers get to
charge what they
> think they can sell it for and buyers can pay the price, not pay the
price or get it
> somewhere else.

Let me get on record here. I am NOT against anybody making a fair and
reasonable profit. We all have to pay the rent/mortgage and feed our
families. I do object to seeing business gouge their customers with
insane prices.

Let us not forget the Burke approved airstones, food, meds, fish
emergency kit, salinity meter and other dry goods she sold for more
than a reasonable profit. THEN implied that if you used anyone else's
product(s) you were endangering the health and welfare of your
goldfish. And let us also not forget the fish that were touted as top
quality, along with price tags to match.

The list of wild claims and dubious "help" is longer than I have either
the time or incentive to type down.
Neither of you pass the sniff test.

Lilly

[email protected]

January 10th 05, 10:26 PM

I simply dont know how you can equate my reposting a message "call Jo Ann if you
need help" with the individuals saying that I and my friends are full of crap, are
liars, etc. Perhaps a framework is needed. I havent posted this in a while.
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/wsFALL2004/science/personal_attacks.html

HOW TO DETERMINE THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS OCCURRING
1. A personal attack or assault is not a discussion of facts. It begins with the
attacker clearly identifying the person being attacked either by name or by the use
of "you" repeatedly
2. The attack is full of emotional words, feelings, beliefs and opinions, but few
facts.
3. The attacker typically proposes or insinuates elaborate motives (often
conspiracies) for behavior that has no basis in fact. Ascribing motives to another
person is, of course, unknowable. Motives are negative for the most part.
4. Name calling and character assassination is typical.
5. The attacker will often refer to "unidentified others" who share their beliefs and
"know what they know".
6. The attack is most often public to be effective.

A major point I make to my students is that there cant be any debate of facts if one
person is attacking, or, if people are presenting their beliefs or feelings rather
than factual material. Scientists can discuss competing theories using facts without
resorting to calling names, questioning another scientists motives, or using
emotional language. How people "feel" is not debatable, facts are. Opinions may be
feelings or beliefs, or, they may be presented as facts. If you say "in my
experience ponds that freeze over dont kill fish" I can hardly say "no, you didnt
experience that". What I can say is "boy are you lucky because the following facts
suggest that more often than not fish die in frozen ponds. "

Even your statement "you have all the answers" is not a statement of fact, it is a
belief or a feeling that you have. Because of course I dont have all the answers and
most of the time I dont post anything on a very wide range of topics on this list.
Then you continue "anybody else's knowledge is wrong if it contradicts yours" which
is a sweeping statement of how you feel about my posting facts that contradict facts
that you? post. The assumption is that contradictory facts mean somebody is right
and somebody wrong but this is a fallacy. The honest debate of facts is what leads to
forward movement and a synthesis. Which is a good thing.

I will however admit that as a scientist and a teacher I do love good debates.
Ingrid

Derek Broughton > wrote:
>That's part of the problem. The other part is that you have all the answers
>and anybody else's knowledge is wrong if it contradicts yours. Allow
>people an opinion once in a while.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 10th 05, 10:52 PM

doing a google search for "Jo Ann asked me to remind"
...............on rec.goldfish etc. I posted
Dec 24 2004, 6:52 am
Dec 31 2004, 4:52 pm
Jan 2, 2:15 pm
.................on rec.ponds I posted
Jan 2, 2:15 pm
Jan 3, 6:03 pm
Jan 4, 3:18 pm
Jan 8, 2:16 pm

This is a total of 6 times with one cross posting over 18 days. There werent multiple
posts per day for an average of one posting every 3 days. I cannot be held
accountable for others replying and including my text.

Your use of the word "services" suggests a "pay for service" which of course is
incorrect. There is no cost for Jo Ann's help. Ingrid

Derek Broughton > wrote:
>(b) once a month, or even once a week, advertising Jo Ann's services
>wouldn't bother me. It was the multiple-times-per-day that got annoying.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 10th 05, 11:13 PM

Why Tom, we all know you follow Puregold very carefully so you would of course know
that neither I nor Jo Ann posts to the list very often these days (which is just as
well since she is very busy with her antique business while I am just busy!) and that
most people are doing so very well with their fish. there are of course the typical
floating problems, wen problems, etc. that are easily handled by the other
experienced and knowledgable GF keepers on the list. Lately there has been a
discussion about KH and pH, a biowheel problem and the posted "help needed" messages
from rec.gf and other help wanted requests to the list. What has been an exciting
development on the list are the independent experiments a couple people been doing.
Ingrid

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote:
>Being on your list must not be that much help or that much of an advantage
>if Jo Ann is so busy helping people with problems on your list. You would
>think that being on Puregold would have everyone is Goldfish paradise with
>no problems at all, with you and Jo Ann there helping at the drop of a hat,
>obviously they are not listening or the proper information is not being
>given. I wonder what it is.
>
>Tom L.L.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Lilly

January 10th 05, 11:18 PM

wrote:
> I simply dont know how you can equate my reposting a message "call
Jo Ann if you
> need help" with the individuals saying that I and my friends are full
of crap, are
> liars, etc. Perhaps a framework is needed. I havent posted this in
a while.
> http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/wsFALL2004/science/personal_attacks.html
>
> HOW TO DETERMINE THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS OCCURRING

Seems Ingrid uses all below except rules #4 and #12.

THE THIRTEEN COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING:

Flames should be witty, insulting, interesting, funny, caustic, or
sarcastic, but NEVER, EVER, should they be boring. The Thirteen
Commandments of Flaming

1. Make things up about your opponent: It's important to make your lies
sound true. Preface your argument with the word "clearly." "Clearly,
Fred Flooney is a liar, and a dirtball to boot."

2. Be an armchair psychologist: You're a smart person. You've heard of
Freud. You took a psychology course in college. Clearly, you're
qualified to psychoanalyze your opponent. "Polly Purebred, by using the
word 'zucchini' in her posting, shows she has a bad case of penis
envy."

3. Cross-post your flames: Everyone on the net is just waiting for the
next literary masterpiece to leave your terminal! From the Apple II
RoundTable to X-10 Powerhouse RoundTable, they're all holding their
breath until your next flame. Therefore, post everywhere.

4. Conspiracies abound: If everyone's against you, the reason can't
*possibly* be that you're an obnoxious sh??head. There's obviously a
conspiracy against you, and you will be doing the entire net a favor by
exposing it.

5. Lawsuit threats: This is the reverse of Rule #4 (sort of like the
Yin &
Yang of Flaming). Threatening a lawsuit is always considered to be in
good form. "By saying that I've posted to the wrong group, Bertha has
libeled me, slandered me, and sodomized me. See you in court, Bertha."

6. Force them to document their claims: Even if Harry Hoinkus states
outright that he likes tomato sauce on his pasta, you should demand
documentation. If Newsweek hasn't written an article on Harry's pasta
preferences, then Harry's obviously lying.

7. Use foreign phrases: French is good, but Latin is the lingua franca
of flaming. You should use the words "ad hominem" at least three times
per article. Other favorite Latin phrases are "ad nauseum," "veni,
vidi, vici," and "fetuccini alfredo."

8. Tell 'em how smart you are: Why use intelligent arguments to
convince them you're smart when all you have to do is tell them? State
that you're a member of Mensa, or Mega, or Dorks of America. Tell them
the scores you received on every exam since high school. "I got an 800
on my SATs, LSATs, GREs, MCATs, and I can also spell the word
'premeiotic' ." Stick a bunch of impressive initials on your sig, and
make that sig at least 10 lines long, to show people how Really
Powerful you are. Loudly point out their spelling errors.

9. Accuse your opponent of censorship. It is your right as an American
citizen to post whatever the hell you want to the net (as guaranteed by
the 37th Amendment, I think). Anyone who tries to limit your
cross-posting or move a flame war to email is either a communist, a
fascist, or both.

10. Doubt their existence: You've never actually seen your opponent,
have you? And since you're the Center Of The Universe and Chief
Net-Cop, you should have seen them by now, shouldn't you? Therefore,
THEY DON'T EXIST! This is the beauty of flamers' logic.

11. Lie, cheat, steal, leave the toilet seat up. Who cares! You're
probably a fat, pimply-faced, manipulative computer-nerd with no social
skills, and your opponent is worse. Besides, if you were getting laid
at all by anything other than the cheap hookers down the street, you
wouldn't be flaming anyway.

12. When in doubt, insult: If you forget the other 12 rules, remember
this one. At some point during your wonderful career as a Flamer you
will undoubtedly end up in a flame war with someone who is better than
you. This person will expose your lies, tear apart your arguments, make
you look generally like a bozo. At this point, there's only one thing
to do: INSULT THE DIRTBAG!!! "Oh yeah? Well, your mother does strange
things with vegetables."

13. Last, but not least, threaten to tell their sysadmin or postmaster
all about them. You can always hope that they are newbie enough to feel
threatened by this, unless they had a younger brother or sister who was
always tattling to Mommy.

EXAMPLE...for the Rookie Flamer

Dear Fred,

I object to your use of the word "dear." It shows you are a
condescending, sexist pig. Also, the submissive tone you use shows that
you like to be tied down and flagellated with licorice whips.

>While I found your article "The Effect of Belly-Button Lint > on
Western Thought" to be extremely thought-provoking,

"Thought-provoking?" I had no idea you could think, you rotting piece
of swamp slime.

> it really shouldn't have been posted in rec.scuba.

Your attempts constitute nothing less than censorship. There is a
conspiracy against me. You, Riff Raff, and Simon Sinister have been
constantly harassing me by email. This was an ad hominem attack! I have
therefore cross-posted this to alt.flame, rec.nude, comp.graphics, and
rec.arts.wobegon. I have also copied this whole correspondence to your
sysadmin/postmaster, so he can delete your account.

> Perhaps you should have posted it in misc.misc.

It is my right, as granted in the Bill of Rights, the Magna Carta, the
Bible and the Koran, to post where ever I want to. Or don't you believe
in those documents, you damn fascist? Perhaps if you didn't spend so
much time sacrificing virgins and infants to Satan, you would have
realized this.

> Your article would be much more appropriate there.

Can you document this? I will only accept documents notarized by my
attorney, and signed by you in blood. Besides, you don't really exist
anyway, you AI project, you.

At all times, remember what the original meanings of the word "flamer"
were: 1) a loud, obnoxiously gay man, and 2) a person who lights their
farts for amusement.

Lilly

January 10th 05, 11:30 PM

wrote:
> doing a google search for "Jo Ann asked me to remind"
> ..............on rec.goldfish etc. I posted
> Dec 24 2004, 6:52 am
> Dec 31 2004, 4:52 pm
> Jan 2, 2:15 pm
> ................on rec.ponds I posted
> Jan 2, 2:15 pm
> Jan 3, 6:03 pm
> Jan 4, 3:18 pm
> Jan 8, 2:16 pm
>
> This is a total of 6 times with one cross posting over 18 days. There
werent multiple
> posts per day for an average of one posting every 3 days. I cannot
be held
> accountable for others replying and including my text.

Oh my, aren't we the good doobie. Just six posts in eighteen days? Wow,
how do you restrain yourself.

> Your use of the word "services" suggests a "pay for service" which of
course is
> incorrect. There is no cost for Jo Ann's help. Ingrid

Get what you pay for. Short of a few obvious afflictions, like ich,
diagnosing over the 'net or phone is just a shot in the dark. You would
not see any MD or DVM worth their salt doing what you, or Burke, does.
Even though I've got several decades of keeping fish under my belt, and
I stick to the basics of good housekeeping and quality food advice
thankyouverymuch.

I still say, the two of you don't pass the sniff test. BTW, where IS
that diagnostician certificate of JoAnne's? I've been asking for it for
a couple of weeks now (or maybe it just feels that way).

Lilly

Benign Vanilla

January 11th 05, 12:11 AM

"Derek Broughton" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe it is annoying, but at the same time there are new people coming
on
> > all the time looking for help with sick fish, so if they can get the
phone
> > number of somebody can help them right away and for free .....
>
> (a) that's why we have google.
> (b) once a month, or even once a week, advertising Jo Ann's services
> wouldn't bother me. It was the multiple-times-per-day that got annoying.

I concur. She can post that weekly. I am fine with that. It was the way in
which it was posted.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com/safety
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

2pods

January 11th 05, 12:37 AM

ROTFLMAO !

Peter

Tom L. La Bron

January 11th 05, 02:01 AM

Excuse me Ingrid,

I was responding to your comment of Jo Ann being so busy responding to
Problems on your list.

Quote: " Mostly because Jo Ann just doesnt have the time. She is on
Puregold and tries to help people there, but there are now so many other
people on the list know
what they are doing that mostly our help isnt usually needed."

Unquote.

That is what you said, so now you are saying she is not busy and she is not
posting on Puregold and everyone is doing fine. Which is it. You need to
keep you stories straight.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I can care less as to what goes on on Puregold.
I am sorry to inform you but the world does not revolve around you,
especially when it comes and deals with Goldfish.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------------
> wrote in message
...
> Why Tom, we all know you follow Puregold very carefully so you would of
> course know
> that neither I nor Jo Ann posts to the list very often these days (which
> is just as
> well since she is very busy with her antique business while I am just
> busy!) and that
> most people are doing so very well with their fish. there are of course
> the typical
> floating problems, wen problems, etc. that are easily handled by the other
> experienced and knowledgable GF keepers on the list. Lately there has
> been a
> discussion about KH and pH, a biowheel problem and the posted "help
> needed" messages
> from rec.gf and other help wanted requests to the list. What has been an
> exciting
> development on the list are the independent experiments a couple people
> been doing.
> Ingrid

[email protected]

January 11th 05, 02:45 AM

Well I dont know Tom, you almost immediately posted to rec.gf that you knew I had
asked people from Puregold to join the newsgroup and help out answering sick fish
questions so you must somehow be monitoring Puregold pretty closely. Ingrid

"Tom L. La Bron" > wrote:
>Sorry to disappoint you, but I can care less as to what goes on on Puregold.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 11th 05, 03:00 AM

On 10 Jan 2005 15:18:39 -0800, "Lilly" > wrote:

>> HOW TO DETERMINE THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS OCCURRING
>
>Seems Ingrid uses all below except rules #4 and #12.
>
>THE THIRTEEN COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING:

<snip>

So far in this thread, as someone sitting on the sidelines and not having a
personal beef with any of the posters, I haven't seen Ingrid do any of the
listed 13. So where are you coming from Lilly?
~ jan <cybersoccer referee> :o)

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 11th 05, 03:15 AM

>Idiosyncracies? Does that include planting methods?

No, that's true muck, and not to be confused with posting muck, where one
takes old injuries, old insults, old flames, perceived wrongs, and starts
them all anew. Works best on those who don't even remember wronging the
flamer so they're dumb-founded. Those types of idiosyncrasies. ;o) ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Roy

January 11th 05, 03:17 AM

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:47:12 GMT, wrote:
snip

>===<>This density is what is working for Jo Ann. Being dense it has a higher
>===<>molecular attraction, which is what attracts the materials from the
>===<>water.

snip
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>===<>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>===<>http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>===<>www.drsolo.com
>===<>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>===<>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>===<>Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
>===<>compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>===<>endorsements or recommendations I make.

The only thing dense is you and Joanns minds!

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

Roy

January 11th 05, 03:19 AM

Well I'll be darned..I actually agree with something you say!

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:43:28 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
> wrote:

>===<>
> wrote in message
...
>===<>> ooooo... am I really, what fun. You dont care if I get flamed and defamed
>===<>as long as
>===<>> I dont post where people can get help?
>===<>>
>===<>> "Benign Vanilla" > wrote:
>===<>> >Ingrid...come on...some of us disagree with you from time to time, and
>===<>> >others attack you, but don't make us all suffer.
>===<>
>===<>I try to do my best to stay out of he-said, she-said wars. Even in the salt
>===<>battles, I have never participated in Ingrid bashing or Joann bashing. I
>===<>simply disagree with you.
>===<>
>===<>Either way, when you repond to post after post after post after post with an
>===<>ad for Joann, IMHO, it lessens your reputation as a knowledgeable person on
>===<>this group. Stick to your know how, and your pond knowledgeable, and don't
>===<>stoop to SPAMing the group with ads. I don't care if you tell us about your
>===<>list, or Joann...but the repeated ads all week. Really...what does that
>===<>accomplish?

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

Roy

January 11th 05, 03:20 AM

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:53:12 -0400, Derek Broughton
> wrote:

wrote:
>===<>
>===<>> The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming
>===<>
>===<>and continually reposting the same message is not a response?
>===<>
>===<>> is that when I
>===<>> correct the mis-information it does absolutely no good.
>===<>
>===<>That's part of the problem. The other part is that you have all the answers
>===<>and anybody else's knowledge is wrong if it contradicts yours. Allow
>===<>people an opinion once in a while.

The only correct answer is S A L T

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

~ Windsong ~

January 11th 05, 03:44 AM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> wrote:
> > I simply dont know how you can equate my reposting a message "call
> Jo Ann if you
> > need help" with the individuals saying that I and my friends are full
> of crap, are
> > liars, etc. Perhaps a framework is needed. I havent posted this in
> a while.
> > http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/wsFALL2004/science/personal_attacks.html
> >
> > HOW TO DETERMINE THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS OCCURRING
>
> Seems Ingrid uses all below except rules #4 and #12.
==========Brevity snip!

ROFLMAO! This is the funniest post I've read all week! These are really
good and so true. :-D
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If At First You Don't Succeed,
Blame Someone Else And Seek Counseling!"
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 11th 05, 03:56 AM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
> > The main reason I dont respond to any of the flaming is that when I
> correct the
> > mis-information it does absolutely no good.
>
> Because it is frequently replaced with yet more "information" from
> questionable sources, or it's information that is arrived at in a not
> too scientific way (gravel is bad).
>
> > Jo Ann did not use nor sell "activated carbon", the stuff that is
> normally sold in
> > LFS or on the internet and must be heated to high temps for reuse.
>
> Backpeddle much Ingrid? Gawd I wish I had a copy of that thread. I may
> still have it stashed somewhere in my archives. I distinctly remember
> Ms. Burke touting it as the "be all end all never have to purchase
> carbon again" carbon; carbon that could be "recharged" with a good
> squirt from a garden hose. I also see that there are other long time GF
> people from the original list that remember it the same way I do. We
> can't all be crazy with failing memory.

## I will back you up on this all the way Lilly. I may still have it
archived, but doubt it. When I questioned this rechargeable charcoal Ingrid
all but ripped my head off on the list - along with personal insults that
were totally uncalled for and irrelevant.

> > Last time I looked the U.S. is a free market system. Sellers get to
> charge what they
> > think they can sell it for and buyers can pay the price, not pay the
> price or get it
> > somewhere else.

> Let me get on record here. I am NOT against anybody making a fair and
> reasonable profit. We all have to pay the rent/mortgage and feed our
> families. I do object to seeing business gouge their customers with
> insane prices.
>
> Let us not forget the Burke approved airstones, food, meds, fish
> emergency kit, salinity meter and other dry goods she sold for more
> than a reasonable profit. THEN implied that if you used anyone else's
> product(s) you were endangering the health and welfare of your
> goldfish. And let us also not forget the fish that were touted as top
> quality, along with price tags to match.
>
> The list of wild claims and dubious "help" is longer than I have either
> the time or incentive to type down.
> Neither of you pass the sniff test.

## I believe this SHOULD to be kept alive so Newbies are not taken in by
these people. Again, I can almost guarantee if anyone calls JoAnn, JoAnn
will recommend the (overpriced ?) products being sold by the people who
bought her out. You're right, the whole thing smells, well, ...er....fishy.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Windsong ~

January 11th 05, 04:13 AM

"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I still say, the two of you don't pass the sniff test. BTW, where IS
> that diagnostician certificate of JoAnne's? I've been asking for it for
> a couple of weeks now (or maybe it just feels that way).
=============
That's Usenet for you. You can make any claims that turn you on, and be
anything you want to be.....
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[email protected]

January 11th 05, 05:20 AM

who are you Roy?

(Roy) wrote:

>Well I'll be darned..I actually agree with something you say!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[email protected]

January 11th 05, 05:20 AM

who are you Roy?

(Roy) wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Roy

January 11th 05, 01:56 PM

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:13:18 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" <P@P> wrote:

>===<>
>===<>"Lilly" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>===<>> I still say, the two of you don't pass the sniff test. BTW, where IS
>===<>> that diagnostician certificate of JoAnne's? I've been asking for it for
>===<>> a couple of weeks now (or maybe it just feels that way).
>===<>=============
>===<>That's Usenet for you. You can make any claims that turn you on, and be
>===<>anything you want to be.....

Hmmmmmmmm sort of mimics that TV show the Pretender..........I think
next week I'll join a health group and become a Doctor! Maybe the week
after that I'll be a Airplane pilot, or maybe a mechanical engineer.

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

Derek Broughton

January 11th 05, 03:37 PM

wrote:

> doing a google search for "Jo Ann asked me to remind"
> ..............on rec.goldfish etc. I posted
> Dec 24 2004, 6:52 am
> Dec 31 2004, 4:52 pm
> Jan 2, 2:15 pm
> ................on rec.ponds I posted
> Jan 2, 2:15 pm
> Jan 3, 6:03 pm
> Jan 4, 3:18 pm
> Jan 8, 2:16 pm
>
> This is a total of 6 times with one cross posting over 18 days. There
> werent multiple
> posts per day for an average of one posting every 3 days. I cannot be
> held accountable for others replying and including my text.

OK, so it wasn't multiple times per day - that's just how often I read it
because I don't (usually) read newsgroups on weekends. My mistake. It's
STILL abusive. Keep it down to once every couple of weeks (maximum)
PLEASE.

> Your use of the word "services" suggests a "pay for service" which of
> course is
> incorrect. There is no cost for Jo Ann's help. Ingrid

Don't you dare put words in my mouth. She offers a service. I never
suggested, let alone used, the word "pay". Your sense of the word
"service" inferred what was never implied.
--
derek

Derek Broughton

January 11th 05, 03:47 PM

wrote:

> I simply dont know how you can equate my reposting a message "call Jo Ann
> if you need help" with the individuals saying that I and my friends are
> full of crap, are

You're doing it again. Stop putting words in my mouth. I haven't "equated"
it at all. The fact is, I don't read Tom's or Roy's posts, haven't read
Lilly's posts since she first jumped in, and don't read any of Carol's
posts responding to you. So I simply can't comment on their posts or their
feelings about you.

I do have a certain respect for both you and Carol, and when you're not
fighting, I'll read you both. However, if you just keep reposting the same
message you'll end up in the killfile, too. Nobody wants to read the same
old, same old.
--
derek

Benign Vanilla

January 11th 05, 04:18 PM

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >Idiosyncracies? Does that include planting methods?
>
> No, that's true muck, and not to be confused with posting muck, where one
> takes old injuries, old insults, old flames, perceived wrongs, and starts
> them all anew. Works best on those who don't even remember wronging the
> flamer so they're dumb-founded. Those types of idiosyncrasies. ;o) ~ jan
>

I bet this aged muck, would be great for my lotus tubors.

NEDRA, where are you?

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

Nedra

January 11th 05, 04:48 PM

Hey BV! I'm right here. What's wrong with your lotus tubers? They should
be
sleeping soundly at the bottom of your pond :) Mine are snug as bugs in rug
under
all the muck you could possibly think of...

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

Benign Vanilla

January 11th 05, 06:17 PM

"Nedra" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hey BV! I'm right here. What's wrong with your lotus tubers? They
should
> be
> sleeping soundly at the bottom of your pond :) Mine are snug as bugs in
rug
> under
> all the muck you could possibly think of...

No worries, just wondered where you were. I hadn't seen post from you in
awhile.

Mine tubors are doin the same as yours. Asleep for the winter. We started 12
new ones from seed a few weeks back. They are on the kitchen counter and my
SO has taken over their care. She claims to be doing because I am neglecting
them. I think secretly she likes it. :)

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

~ Windsong ~

January 11th 05, 06:43 PM

"Benign Vanilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Idiosyncracies? Does that include planting methods?
> >
> > No, that's true muck, and not to be confused with posting muck, where
one
> > takes old injuries, old insults, old flames, perceived wrongs, and
starts
> > them all anew. Works best on those who don't even remember wronging the
> > flamer so they're dumb-founded. Those types of idiosyncrasies. ;o) ~
jan
> >
>
> I bet this aged muck, would be great for my lotus tubors.
>
> NEDRA, where are you?
===========================
For extra nice tomatoes toss it in your veggie patch. It also grows roses
like crazy! Or use it in a tub to grow duckweed for your fish.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nedra

January 11th 05, 07:28 PM

Thanks a million for your concern, BV ;) Actually I have been offline due
to computer
(modem) problems. I tried my best to fix it myself ... finally called in a
pro.
All Okay now.
I haven't done anything at all ~~ especially in the lotus dept. Congrats on
converting
your SO .... I know she will love this lotus growing.

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

Koifan

January 11th 05, 08:30 PM

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:28:06 GMT, "Nedra" >
wrote:

>===<>Thanks a million for your concern, BV ;) Actually I have been offline due
>===<>to computer
>===<>(modem) problems. I tried my best to fix it myself ... finally called in a
>===<>pro.
>===<>All Okay now.
>===<>I haven't done anything at all ~~ especially in the lotus dept. Congrats on
>===<>converting
>===<>your SO .... I know she will love this lotus growing.
>===<>
>===<>Nedra
>===<>
>===<>Lotus Garden:
>===<>http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
>===<>Backyard Pond:
>===<>http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

Yea, her collection of kill files / filters overloader her CPU and
hard
drive................haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaahahaha hahahahahaaaaaaaaa

Regards

Mr. Cavalier Attitude himself!

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

Lilly

January 11th 05, 11:15 PM

Where am I coming from? More than a decade of experiences with these
two. You must be new to the GF community, otherwise you'd also have the
collective memory of us old timers.

I object to these posts she writes. I might be able to tolerate a sig
line which contains info for JoAnn, but these posts saying "the leading
expert" are over the line. Who says she's an expert? The GFSA? Any
recognized hobby club? Doubt it. And this diagnostician certification
stuff is just bunk. Want to know what the USDA and it's aquatic arm
calls "diagnostician". They call it a Veterinarian.

I'm not trying to grind any axes here. Just trying make sure that at
least part of the truth sees the light of day.

Lilly

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2005 15:18:39 -0800, "Lilly" >
wrote:
>
> >> HOW TO DETERMINE THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS OCCURRING
> >
> >Seems Ingrid uses all below except rules #4 and #12.
> >
> >THE THIRTEEN COMMANDMENTS OF FLAMING:
>
> <snip>
>
> So far in this thread, as someone sitting on the sidelines and not
having a
> personal beef with any of the posters, I haven't seen Ingrid do any
of the
> listed 13. So where are you coming from Lilly?
> ~ jan <cybersoccer referee> :o)
>
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 12th 05, 03:15 AM

>On 11 Jan 2005 15:15:23 -0800, "Lilly" > wrote:

>Where am I coming from? More than a decade of experiences with these
>two. You must be new to the GF community, otherwise you'd also have the
>collective memory of us old timers.

I've been on rec.ponds since 1997. I tried the rec.goldfish (or whatever it
was call) and there was an expert on there at the time, some guy with an
Asian name that scared me away. Ingrid is warm and fuzzy in comparison. ;o)

Anyway, as far as memory goes, I know mine can be lacking, but I haven't
seen you post here much before this thread got going, so to me it does look
like ax grinding, by several people for that matter. It became quite
obvious to me, that when Ingrid ruffled some feathers with her JoAnn post
and the bashing began, that reposting it to irritate served it's purpose.

I'm not trying to start anything or pick sides, just reporting how the view
looks from the sidelines. ~ jan
~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Roy

January 12th 05, 11:30 AM

Oh yea, another kill file to add...........isn't this kill file crap
fun?

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:21:09 GMT, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Puregold Goldfish
List) wrote:

>===<>On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 22:16:19 GMT, xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>===<>
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer xxxxxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxxxxx4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251xxxxxxxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dxxxxxxandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxxxxxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dxxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxxxxxx4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxxxx.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-6xxx790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxxxx/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxx4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dxxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251xxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxxx790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dxxxxxxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-6xxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>>===<>Jo Ann asked me to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://dxxxxxxxx.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject.
>===<>
>===<>REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
>===<>Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
>===<>the business to Ken Fischer http://xxxxxxxxxs.com/) she has NOT retired from
>===<>helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-xxxx-4790 phoning is best for
>===<>diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at xxxxxxxxxxx
>===<>xxxxxxxxs Daxxxxxxxxxxandas........you guys got that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

~ Windsong ~

January 14th 05, 03:05 AM

"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >On 11 Jan 2005 15:15:23 -0800, "Lilly" > wrote:
>
> >Where am I coming from? More than a decade of experiences with these
> >two. You must be new to the GF community, otherwise you'd also have the
> >collective memory of us old timers.
>
> I've been on rec.ponds since 1997. I tried the rec.goldfish (or whatever
it
> was call) and there was an expert on there at the time, some guy with an
> Asian name that scared me away. Ingrid is warm and fuzzy in comparison.
;o)
>
> Anyway, as far as memory goes, I know mine can be lacking, but I haven't
> seen you post here much before this thread got going, so to me it does
look
> like ax grinding, by several people for that matter. It became quite
> obvious to me, that when Ingrid ruffled some feathers with her JoAnn post
> and the bashing began, that reposting it to irritate served it's purpose.
>
> I'm not trying to start anything or pick sides, just reporting how the
view
> looks from the sidelines. ~ jan
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
==================================
What Lily, Tom and I are talking about transpired on the old Goldfish list
(not here on Usenet) ran by someone called Bruce or Brian Sillybug. This
was back around 1997 or 98. I don't know what happened to the list. I do
know several core members passed away... then someone went on vacation and
left on their auto-reply which flooded the list - then the list just seemed
to die out.

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ jan JJsPond.us

January 14th 05, 04:05 AM

>What Lily, Tom and I are talking about transpired on the old Goldfish list
>(not here on Usenet) ran by someone called Bruce or Brian Sillybug. This
>was back around 1997 or 98. I don't know what happened to the list. I do
>know several core members passed away... then someone went on vacation and
>left on their auto-reply which flooded the list - then the list just seemed
>to die out.
>
>Carol.... the frugal ponder...

Thanks for the "where this is coming from" info....

We're talking something that happened in cyber space 6-7 years ago? Wow!
Talk about long running grudges.... ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Tom L. La Bron

January 14th 05, 04:57 AM

Jan,

It is not holding a grudge when your consistanting hear the same horse crap
year after year from the same person, who professes to have all the answers
and has been proven on number occassion to be wrong via real scientific
research, but refuses to believe the real world. Over and over again that
on certain subjects she doesn't know what she is talking about, to the
point that it has almost established itself as an urban legend.

Tom L.L.
-------------------------------------------
"~ jan JJsPond.us" > wrote in message
...
> >What Lily, Tom and I are talking about transpired on the old Goldfish
> >list
>>(not here on Usenet) ran by someone called Bruce or Brian Sillybug. This
>>was back around 1997 or 98. I don't know what happened to the list. I do
>>know several core members passed away... then someone went on vacation and
>>left on their auto-reply which flooded the list - then the list just
>>seemed
>>to die out.
>>
>>Carol.... the frugal ponder...
>
> Thanks for the "where this is coming from" info....
>
> We're talking something that happened in cyber space 6-7 years ago? Wow!
> Talk about long running grudges.... ~ jan
>
>
> ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~