Fluval restart questions

[Bill Stock]

I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the other
will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water first. It's
either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the angle/length of the
tubing. But I swear I measured. :)

Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of fish crap.
I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is this coming from? Is
it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes? Has anyone replaced these
tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix this problem. I would think this
hidden crap would be a source of Nitrates?

[Rick]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
other
> will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water first. It's
> either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the angle/length of the
> tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>
> Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of fish
crap.
> I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is this coming from?
Is
> it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes? Has anyone replaced these
> tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix this problem. I would think this
> hidden crap would be a source of Nitrates?
>


not sure about the restart problem but the debris coming out of the filter
after cleaning it is normal. The media is clean and is allow a higher water
flow through the hose thus pushing the junk through the filter and into the
tank. I clean my hoses every six months and it's amazing the stuff that
comes out. You tubes are smooth on the inside just ribbed on the outside. AS
a matter of interest I recently hooked up a Filstar XP3 to get it cycled for
use in a 180 that I have on order. This filter comes with clear smooth
tubing and within a week of setting it up the crud was building up inside
the hose and this time you can readily see it.

Rick

[2pods]

AS
> a matter of interest I recently hooked up a Filstar XP3 to get it cycled
> for
> use in a 180 that I have on order. This filter comes with clear smooth
> tubing and within a week of setting it up the crud was building up inside
> the hose and this time you can readily see it.
>
> Rick
>
>

Too true.
My XP3 hoses have big bits of visible crud after three weeks.

Peter

[NetMax]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
other
> will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water first. It's
> either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the angle/length of the
> tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>
> Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of fish
crap.
> I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is this coming from?
Is
> it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes? Has anyone replaced these
> tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix this problem. I would think this
> hidden crap would be a source of Nitrates?


As a matter of procedure, I always start my 304 when it's full. It's just a
habit I got into with all other canisters, either completely empty (and get
the flow running the right way), or completely full (and let the pump take
care of the small amount of air trapped). The difference between your two
might be the location of the return lines. The lower the return line is in
the water, the more back pressure to an empty restart.

Fishcrap coming out of the filter would I think be stuff caught elsewhere in
the filter. I haven't noticed that in my 304, but my media mix is probably
different from yours. Ordinarily (I think), the stuff which comes loose
from hoses during a restart is algae (brown or green). While it isn't
pretty, I usually don't worry much about it's accumulation in the hoses, as
it provides a waster scrubbing service (like an algae scrubber, soaking
nitrates out). It is a problem when there is enough to slow the pump flow
down though. To minimize it's growth, use opaque hoses (like the Fluval) or
keep the hoses in the shade. With light, you get the green algae which
grows quickly to clog things up. Without light, you get a brown algae which
is much slower growing (less maintenance, more time between cleaning), but I
don't know how it compares as a scrubber to the green algae. I don't think
it's related to the 'brown' algae sometimes mentioned (diatoms), and it's
more probably related to a red algae, but like I said, I don't know if it's
better or worse at nitrate scrubbing.

An interesting experiment would be to take a non-planted cichlid tank and
hook up a collection of thick clear hoses along the back in such a way as to
intentionally grow algae in them. Feed a canister filter with about eight 3
foot hoses and back with another eight 3 foot hoses. The canister filter
should work perfectly well (if its seal will tolerate the extra weight of
the water in the hoses, maybe 5-10 lbs), and most people have no trouble
growing algae ;~). I bet that you could make the tank nitrate-free that way
(48 feet of algae might be more plant-activity than you could even fit in
the tank). As the hoses fill, less light would get in, so it might be
self-governing (maintenance-free). The trick might just be in finding the
right diameter to start with (5/8"- 3/4"?).

If anyone tries this and it works, please post to let us know. Occasionally
I like to hear that some of my ideas aren't too 'off the wall' ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Bill Stock]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
> other
>> will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water first. It's
>> either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the angle/length of the
>> tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>>
>> Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of fish
> crap.
>> I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is this coming from?
> Is
>> it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes? Has anyone replaced these
>> tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix this problem. I would think this
>> hidden crap would be a source of Nitrates?
>
>
> As a matter of procedure, I always start my 304 when it's full. It's just
> a
> habit I got into with all other canisters, either completely empty (and
> get
> the flow running the right way), or completely full (and let the pump take
> care of the small amount of air trapped). The difference between your two
> might be the location of the return lines. The lower the return line is
> in
> the water, the more back pressure to an empty restart.

With the one, it fills itself as soon as I reset the valve. The other
requires a complete refil. Perhaps it's losing it's siphon somehow.

> Fishcrap coming out of the filter would I think be stuff caught elsewhere
> in
> the filter. I haven't noticed that in my 304, but my media mix is
> probably
> different from yours. Ordinarily (I think), the stuff which comes loose
> from hoses during a restart is algae (brown or green). While it isn't
> pretty, I usually don't worry much about it's accumulation in the hoses,
> as
> it provides a waster scrubbing service (like an algae scrubber, soaking
> nitrates out). It is a problem when there is enough to slow the pump flow
> down though. To minimize it's growth, use opaque hoses (like the Fluval)
> or
> keep the hoses in the shade. With light, you get the green algae which
> grows quickly to clog things up. Without light, you get a brown algae
> which
> is much slower growing (less maintenance, more time between cleaning), but
> I
> don't know how it compares as a scrubber to the green algae. I don't
> think
> it's related to the 'brown' algae sometimes mentioned (diatoms), and it's
> more probably related to a red algae, but like I said, I don't know if
> it's
> better or worse at nitrate scrubbing.

Definitely fish poop. I think it's worse when I clean the filter, as opposed
to just a regular water change. The extra spurt of water must knock it
loose. My hoses are opaque.

> An interesting experiment would be to take a non-planted cichlid tank and
> hook up a collection of thick clear hoses along the back in such a way as
> to
> intentionally grow algae in them. Feed a canister filter with about eight
> 3
> foot hoses and back with another eight 3 foot hoses. The canister filter
> should work perfectly well (if its seal will tolerate the extra weight of
> the water in the hoses, maybe 5-10 lbs), and most people have no trouble
> growing algae ;~). I bet that you could make the tank nitrate-free that
> way
> (48 feet of algae might be more plant-activity than you could even fit in
> the tank). As the hoses fill, less light would get in, so it might be
> self-governing (maintenance-free). The trick might just be in finding the
> right diameter to start with (5/8"- 3/4"?).

Neat idea. Some Algae specific lighting might help too. A HOT algae box.

> If anyone tries this and it works, please post to let us know.
> Occasionally
> I like to hear that some of my ideas aren't too 'off the wall' ;~).
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

[CanadianCray]

Best way to restart a Fluval is to throw it in the trash & buy a different
filter. Not worth the hassle & definitely not worth the money!!!

--
Craig
________________________________
www.CanadianCray.tk
www.Bluecrayfish.com

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Bill Stock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
> other
>> will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water first. It's
>> either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the angle/length of the
>> tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>>
>> Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of fish
> crap.
>> I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is this coming from?
> Is
>> it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes? Has anyone replaced these
>> tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix this problem. I would think this
>> hidden crap would be a source of Nitrates?
>
>
> As a matter of procedure, I always start my 304 when it's full. It's just
> a
> habit I got into with all other canisters, either completely empty (and
> get
> the flow running the right way), or completely full (and let the pump take
> care of the small amount of air trapped). The difference between your two
> might be the location of the return lines. The lower the return line is
> in
> the water, the more back pressure to an empty restart.
>
> Fishcrap coming out of the filter would I think be stuff caught elsewhere
> in
> the filter. I haven't noticed that in my 304, but my media mix is
> probably
> different from yours. Ordinarily (I think), the stuff which comes loose
> from hoses during a restart is algae (brown or green). While it isn't
> pretty, I usually don't worry much about it's accumulation in the hoses,
> as
> it provides a waster scrubbing service (like an algae scrubber, soaking
> nitrates out). It is a problem when there is enough to slow the pump flow
> down though. To minimize it's growth, use opaque hoses (like the Fluval)
> or
> keep the hoses in the shade. With light, you get the green algae which
> grows quickly to clog things up. Without light, you get a brown algae
> which
> is much slower growing (less maintenance, more time between cleaning), but
> I
> don't know how it compares as a scrubber to the green algae. I don't
> think
> it's related to the 'brown' algae sometimes mentioned (diatoms), and it's
> more probably related to a red algae, but like I said, I don't know if
> it's
> better or worse at nitrate scrubbing.
>
> An interesting experiment would be to take a non-planted cichlid tank and
> hook up a collection of thick clear hoses along the back in such a way as
> to
> intentionally grow algae in them. Feed a canister filter with about eight
> 3
> foot hoses and back with another eight 3 foot hoses. The canister filter
> should work perfectly well (if its seal will tolerate the extra weight of
> the water in the hoses, maybe 5-10 lbs), and most people have no trouble
> growing algae ;~). I bet that you could make the tank nitrate-free that
> way
> (48 feet of algae might be more plant-activity than you could even fit in
> the tank). As the hoses fill, less light would get in, so it might be
> self-governing (maintenance-free). The trick might just be in finding the
> right diameter to start with (5/8"- 3/4"?).
>
> If anyone tries this and it works, please post to let us know.
> Occasionally
> I like to hear that some of my ideas aren't too 'off the wall' ;~).
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

[Dan J.S.]

Bill Stock wrote:
> I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
> other will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water
> first. It's either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the
> angle/length of the tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>
> Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of
> fish crap. I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is
> this coming from? Is it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes?
> Has anyone replaced these tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix
> this problem. I would think this hidden crap would be a source of
> Nitrates?

Take that damn fluval and toss it out before it floods your house... it will
be the best thing you do... that is exactly how mine started to act before
leaking when my power went out...

[Rick]

"Dan J.S." > wrote in message
...
> Bill Stock wrote:
> > I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine, the
> > other will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water
> > first. It's either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the
> > angle/length of the tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
> >
> > Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of
> > fish crap. I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is
> > this coming from? Is it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes?
> > Has anyone replaced these tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix
> > this problem. I would think this hidden crap would be a source of
> > Nitrates?
>
> Take that damn fluval and toss it out before it floods your house... it
will
> be the best thing you do... that is exactly how mine started to act before
> leaking when my power went out...
>
>

if your fluval is about 3 years old then this was a problem at least on the
404 model. Good thing I discovered that problem with mine while doing a
water change. After restart it was leaking like crazy. Repeated
repositioning of the inner seal ring and refilling and I managed to get it
going leak free until I shut the power off about a month later for my next
maintenance and it started leaking again. If the power had gone out while I
was out of the house I would have had about 70 gallons of water on my floor.
I brought this to the attention of Hagen and they authorized a complete
replacement head unit and I have had no problems since that time. I would
suggest to anyone having this type of filter and in particular an older
Fluval to make a small hole about an inch below the water line on the intake
hose. That way if the power goes out and it leaks the worse you are going to
get is water to that level at which time it will suck air and stop the
siphoning action.

Rick

[NetMax]

"Rick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan J.S." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bill Stock wrote:
>> > I've got two fluval 304s on my 75 gallon tank. One restarts fine,
>> > the
>> > other will not siphon unless I fill the cannister with tank water
>> > first. It's either a flakey unit or a slight difference in the
>> > angle/length of the tubing. But I swear I measured. :)
>> >
>> > Secondly, when I restart these filters, the tanks becomes full of
>> > fish crap. I have to take the net and scoop the tank clean. WTH is
>> > this coming from? Is it hiding in the crevices of those damn tubes?
>> > Has anyone replaced these tubes with smoothed walled tubes to fix
>> > this problem. I would think this hidden crap would be a source of
>> > Nitrates?
>>
>> Take that damn fluval and toss it out before it floods your house...
>> it
> will
>> be the best thing you do... that is exactly how mine started to act
>> before
>> leaking when my power went out...
>>
>>
>
> if your fluval is about 3 years old then this was a problem at least on
> the
> 404 model. Good thing I discovered that problem with mine while doing a
> water change. After restart it was leaking like crazy. Repeated
> repositioning of the inner seal ring and refilling and I managed to get
> it
> going leak free until I shut the power off about a month later for my
> next
> maintenance and it started leaking again. If the power had gone out
> while I
> was out of the house I would have had about 70 gallons of water on my
> floor.
> I brought this to the attention of Hagen and they authorized a complete
> replacement head unit and I have had no problems since that time. I
> would
> suggest to anyone having this type of filter and in particular an older
> Fluval to make a small hole about an inch below the water line on the
> intake
> hose. That way if the power goes out and it leaks the worse you are
> going to
> get is water to that level at which time it will suck air and stop the
> siphoning action.
>
> Rick


My understanding is that it included the 304, your time frame is correct
and they changed the handle colours to blue to identify the redesigned
filters.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rick]

"Brian" > wrote in message
...
> I'd be willing to make the sacrifice of accepting still-functioning,
> cast-off Fluval x04 filters. It's a burden I'm willing to bear. ;)
>
> B
>
> In article >,
> "CanadianCray" > wrote:
>
> > Best way to restart a Fluval is to throw it in the trash & buy a
different
> > filter. Not worth the hassle & definitely not worth the money!!!
> >
> > --
> > Craig
>
> --
> Brian Heller
>
you and me both. Send as many as you want to me.

Rick