Adding fish

[Newbie Bill]

I have two tanks which I think should have a little 'headroom' to add a few
more fish. Water parameters are excellent and I test and change water
regularly. I am considering small danios and/or black skirt tetras. One
tank has 3 aeneus(sp) cories, 2 ottos and 3 Buenos Aires tetras. The other
has 2 reg platys and 2 smaller growing mollies. I am salting it at only
about 2 tbsp/20 gal.

Any suggestions on adding danios or tetras to these tanks, both as far as
compatability and the lightly salted water. Also what's the fewest of each
I can add. I have seen suggestions that every fish I have, have more
species mates, but they all seem relatively active, happy and non
aggressive.

I am sure I will also be adding at least one more tank at some point, but I
am still trying to get a sense of how 'dirty' some of these freshwater fish
are. I have read platys are particularly clean and one can probably fudge
on the inch/gal rule with them - but I dont like them that much. Any other
non goldfish particularly clean or dirty? The LFS help told me if danios
and black shirts were the same size they should produce the same amount of
'waste'. Might be splitting hairs, but this doesnt sound quite right to me
since the black skirt appears to have more 'volume' than the danios.
Wouldn't size of fish also be at least somewhat a consideration other than
just length?

Thanxx for your help!

Bill

[spiral_72]

(in my experience)
Danios are a very hearty fish. I kept six of them under less than ideal
conditions, while I learned about keeping an aquarium. As a matter of
fact they were the only fish, other than the catfish, to survive the
cycling and ich. Mine were the first to eat food and the last to pick a
fight... they are cheap too!

Thankfully I have learned much since then. I currently have 3 black
skirt tetras. They seem very hearty and peaceful,although my water
conditions have much improved since the danios.

I wouldn't hesitate adding either fish to an aquarium. They are more
likely to be "picked on" rather than cause a fight. Danios seemed to be
clean fish, while the tetras seem to be slightly dirtier (I suppose
because they are larger). I wouldn't recommend adding more than about
four of either fish though, they really snatch food up in a hurry
before others can get to it.

As far as the salt added to the tank..... I don't have any experience
with that.

Matt Hampshire

[NetMax]

"Newbie Bill" > wrote in message
...
>I have two tanks which I think should have a little 'headroom' to add a
>few
> more fish. Water parameters are excellent and I test and change water
> regularly. I am considering small danios and/or black skirt tetras.
> One
> tank has 3 aeneus(sp) cories, 2 ottos and 3 Buenos Aires tetras. The
> other
> has 2 reg platys and 2 smaller growing mollies. I am salting it at
> only
> about 2 tbsp/20 gal.

So you have a sof****er tank with corys/tetras and a 'hardwater' (salted)
tank with livebearers, kewl : )

Note salting does not make harder water unless you are using marine salt.

> Any suggestions on adding danios or tetras to these tanks, both as far
> as
> compatability and the lightly salted water. Also what's the fewest of
> each
> I can add. I have seen suggestions that every fish I have, have more
> species mates, but they all seem relatively active, happy and non
> aggressive.

For corys (3+), tetras (5+), otos (2+), livebearers at your discretion.
Note that the BA tetras do get quite large and could dispatch smaller
tetras. You didn't indicate if they are in 10g or a 100g.

For either tank, the danios are very active, curious and aggressive
eaters (your corys might get less food without your help). Tetras are
tetras. Neither the tetras or the danios come from a brackish or salted
environment, like the livebearers.

> I am sure I will also be adding at least one more tank at some point,
> but I
> am still trying to get a sense of how 'dirty' some of these freshwater
> fish
> are. I have read platys are particularly clean and one can probably
> fudge
> on the inch/gal rule with them - but I dont like them that much. Any
> other
> non goldfish particularly clean or dirty? The LFS help told me if
> danios
> and black shirts were the same size they should produce the same amount
> of
> 'waste'. Might be splitting hairs, but this doesnt sound quite right
> to me
> since the black skirt appears to have more 'volume' than the danios.
> Wouldn't size of fish also be at least somewhat a consideration other
> than
> just length?

There really isn't a 'dirty' fish or a 'clean' fish. The amount of waste
generated is mostly determined by their rate of consumption, which in
most cases is determined by how much you feed them. A 'clean' fish fed
three times more food than a 'dirty' fish will produce 3 times more
waste, and it doesn't matter if it's a Black Skirt tetra or a Neon tetra.
Fish convert their food to growth (or eggs), heat, oxyen transfer and
waste. Some considerations:

More active fish will convert more of their intake to heat, but they are
also more aggressive eaters forcing you to feed more (ie:danios). Messy
eaters will leave more uneaten food to waste polluting the tank (ie:
Oscars). Fish which can't have their intakes easily regulated by fish
food (because they feed off of plant life) can produce a lot of waste
(ie: Plecos) if there is plentifull supply. Carniverous fish are
generally fed a higher protein diet which is more polluting.

> Thanxx for your help!
>
> Bill

Here is a page where I tried to summarize a few methods of stocking
guidelines. hth
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/stocking/stocking.shtml
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dick]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:17:22 GMT, "Newbie Bill"
> wrote:

>I have two tanks which I think should have a little 'headroom' to add a few
>more fish. Water parameters are excellent and I test and change water
>regularly. I am considering small danios and/or black skirt tetras. One
>tank has 3 aeneus(sp) cories, 2 ottos and 3 Buenos Aires tetras. The other
>has 2 reg platys and 2 smaller growing mollies. I am salting it at only
>about 2 tbsp/20 gal.
>
>Any suggestions on adding danios or tetras to these tanks, both as far as
>compatability and the lightly salted water. Also what's the fewest of each
>I can add. I have seen suggestions that every fish I have, have more
>species mates, but they all seem relatively active, happy and non
>aggressive.

I have Platies and Mollies in my tanks. I don't add salt.

I am sure that I will have Platies long after the Mollies are gone.
Perhaps the salt will protect your mollies from the various problems
my mollies experience. They are beautiful fish and most are very
healthy, but the rate of disease is much higher. I have over 100 fish
and a dozen species. None but the Mollies seem to have problems.

I also have Serpae and Bleeding Heart tetras. Serpaes are one of my
favorites, they are so colorful.

Platies are colorful and active, but Tetras are just problem free (no
babies or illness).

An interesting side comment, a few months ago I separated the Molly
and Platy fish by sex. Strange to tell, the Platy males play tag (no
nipping) a lot, but the male Mollies have died off for the most part.
They just became lethargic and died. A couple have survived. No such
loss among the female molliesl I have one of the male survivors in my
quarantine tank with a couple of healthy females. I want to keep some
stock of Mollies.

>
>I am sure I will also be adding at least one more tank at some point, but I
>am still trying to get a sense of how 'dirty' some of these freshwater fish
>are. I have read platys are particularly clean and one can probably fudge
>on the inch/gal rule with them - but I dont like them that much. Any other
>non goldfish particularly clean or dirty? The LFS help told me if danios
>and black shirts were the same size they should produce the same amount of
>'waste'. Might be splitting hairs, but this doesnt sound quite right to me
>since the black skirt appears to have more 'volume' than the danios.
>Wouldn't size of fish also be at least somewhat a consideration other than
>just length?

Waste is also fertilizer. I only feed flake food and rarely see the
waste. I do not vacuum the gravel, but see no residue. I think
overfeeding is the biggest problem. A few months ago I went from two
feedings a day to one. I see no change except the filters need less
cleaning. My tanks have lots of live plants. It is my belief that
the filter system only reduces the particle size so the bacteria can
be more effective. Only one of my tanks has bio wheels, but they all
remain balanced. I stopped charcoal use over 6 months ago.

My 5 tanks are all heavilly populated, well over the 1 inch per
gallon. The oldest tank, 75 gallons has been up for over 1 year.

dick
>
>Thanxx for your help!
>
>Bill
>

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:17:22 GMT, "Newbie Bill"
> > wrote:
>
>>I have two tanks which I think should have a little 'headroom' to add a
>>few
>>more fish. Water parameters are excellent and I test and change water
>>regularly. I am considering small danios and/or black skirt tetras.
>>One
>>tank has 3 aeneus(sp) cories, 2 ottos and 3 Buenos Aires tetras. The
>>other
>>has 2 reg platys and 2 smaller growing mollies. I am salting it at
>>only
>>about 2 tbsp/20 gal.
>>
>>Any suggestions on adding danios or tetras to these tanks, both as far
>>as
>>compatability and the lightly salted water. Also what's the fewest of
>>each
>>I can add. I have seen suggestions that every fish I have, have more
>>species mates, but they all seem relatively active, happy and non
>>aggressive.
>
> I have Platies and Mollies in my tanks. I don't add salt.
>
> I am sure that I will have Platies long after the Mollies are gone.
> Perhaps the salt will protect your mollies from the various problems
> my mollies experience. They are beautiful fish and most are very
> healthy, but the rate of disease is much higher. I have over 100 fish
> and a dozen species. None but the Mollies seem to have problems.

It might be possible that you're finding the Mollies sickly because this
is quite often the case when they are kept in fresh water.

> I also have Serpae and Bleeding Heart tetras. Serpaes are one of my
> favorites, they are so colorful.
>
> Platies are colorful and active, but Tetras are just problem free (no
> babies or illness).
>
> An interesting side comment, a few months ago I separated the Molly
> and Platy fish by sex. Strange to tell, the Platy males play tag (no
> nipping) a lot, but the male Mollies have died off for the most part.
> They just became lethargic and died. A couple have survived. No such
> loss among the female molliesl I have one of the male survivors in my
> quarantine tank with a couple of healthy females. I want to keep some
> stock of Mollies.

I encountered something similar, it that my hardwater was very hard on
female Guppies, much more than the males.

>>I am sure I will also be adding at least one more tank at some point,
>>but I
>>am still trying to get a sense of how 'dirty' some of these freshwater
>>fish
>>are. I have read platys are particularly clean and one can probably
>>fudge
>>on the inch/gal rule with them - but I dont like them that much. Any
>>other
>>non goldfish particularly clean or dirty? The LFS help told me if
>>danios
>>and black shirts were the same size they should produce the same amount
>>of
>>'waste'. Might be splitting hairs, but this doesnt sound quite right
>>to me
>>since the black skirt appears to have more 'volume' than the danios.
>>Wouldn't size of fish also be at least somewhat a consideration other
>>than
>>just length?
>
> Waste is also fertilizer. I only feed flake food and rarely see the
> waste. I do not vacuum the gravel, but see no residue. I think
> overfeeding is the biggest problem. A few months ago I went from two
> feedings a day to one. I see no change except the filters need less
> cleaning. My tanks have lots of live plants. It is my belief that
> the filter system only reduces the particle size so the bacteria can
> be more effective. Only one of my tanks has bio wheels, but they all
> remain balanced. I stopped charcoal use over 6 months ago.

I think that the need to gravel vacuum is significantly reduced by the
amount of root-feeding plants you have. In your case, some of your tanks
are well planted so you don't need to gravel vacuum, however I think you
emphasise this point when you tell others why you don't gravel vacuum.
Just a comment to help newbies.

> My 5 tanks are all heavilly populated, well over the 1 inch per
> gallon. The oldest tank, 75 gallons has been up for over 1 year.
>
> dick
>>
>>Thanxx for your help!
>>
>>Bill

The trouble with giving advice here is that it's sometimes not helpful to
tell others what we actually do, since the circumstances are always so
unique. That leaves us with trying to stay relatively conservative in
our advice, like sticking to the basics, move slowly, avoid chemicals
etc. I've successful operated tanks at over 10" fish load per gallon,
but the circumstances were so specialized that it's not a general
discussion topic. I think lots of things that we read, we think (and
know) they aren't 100% accurate, but we stay quiet because we know it is
better for the level of readers and ultimately it's better for the fish.
jmho
--
www.NetMax.tk