Alternative Heat For Tank (experiment)

[pausto]

I've been thinking about an alternative to electric resistance heat
for
my tank, in case of extended power loss or whatever. I'm thinking of
using heat from my gas water heater, or perhaps a small alcohol stove.
Today I played with a heat exchanger. Hope my notes aren't too
confusing.

Any input, thoughts, experiences, critique, would be appreciated.

Paul

=================
Alternative Heat For Tank (experiment)

Aquarium set up:

Tank:
-All Glass 75 gal
-Glass top
-one T-12 gro-lite

Filter:
-DIY trickle sump; 18 gal sweater box, and 5 gal bucket
filled with bio media
-Mag 5 pump with 1 in smooth bore flex hose, no elbows.
300
GPH or better, I'm guessing.

Overflow:
-DIY HOT; Two large specimen boxes, with two 1 inch OD
'U' siphons

Existing heat:
-Two 150 watt EBO's in sump, controlled by external t-stat
(Ranco ETC 111000)

Other:
-no plants
-no power heads
-total water column approx 78 gal us

Residents:(in stanard length)
-Clown loaches 5 2.5 to 3.5 inches
-Rainbows 7 2.5 to 3.5 in
-SAE's 5 3 to 3.25 inches
-Skirt tetras 8 full grown
-Runny noses 14
-Oto's 6
-Platies 2
-And a Rubber nose Pl*co-sarus 2.25 in
(Very peaceful playful tank)

Makeshift Alternate Heat:

Heat exchanger:
-48 inch corrugated flexible stainless steel gas
connector,
intended for hookup of gas dryer.
-ID nom 1/4in
-OD, 1/2 inch'ish
-Supplied with connectors for use with 1/2in standard pipe
thread
-Cleaned and flushed

Brand: Brass Craft
With: Pro Coat protective coating (thin Powder Coat)
Available: Home Depot
Cheap: $10 us

Note: This item is pretty much the key component of the
test
It was selected for its cost, availability and its
(hopefully) chemically inert properties.
And with the hope that its heat transfer properties would
be suitable.

Heat source (for testing):
-6 qt elec cooker with temp control

Pump
-Rio 800
-12 watts rated
-211 gph @ 0 ft lift, 100gph @ 3ft lift
-probably running 100 to 150 gph with heat exch and
tubing(no lift)


Set up:

Heat exchanger:
-Form the stainless steel flex into a coil. It easily
coiled
down to a 1.5 in radius, for an
-overall dim: under 4 in dia coil by 2 in tall (easily
fit in a
four quart pot)
-adapt exchanger's 1/2 in pipe fittings with plastic (or
stainless) adapters, for plastic tubing

Hook up:
-Connect discharge of pump to the heat exchanger coil with
2
or 3 ft of plastic 1/2 ID tubing
-Connect 2 or 3 ft of tubing to outlet of coil, to return
water to sump.

Install:
-submerge pump and the open return tubing into sump
-place connected heat exchanger into cooker filled with
preheated
water


Run test:
Init temp:
-Room temp 59.2 deg (burrr)
-Tank initial temp 78.5.
-Cooker water init temp 110 deg
-The two 150 watt tank heaters were cycled on

Operation:
-Start pump
-Elec heaters cycle off within one minute.
-Tank temp climbed from 78.6 to 79.2 in approx 15 min
-Cooker temp dropped to 100 deg

-during the subsequent 3 hours, The tank temp rose, very
slowly to, and stabilized at, 80.2 deg
-source water (cooker) temp dropped to, and stabilized at,
91 deg

-Eight hours later;
Tank temp 80.0 deg
cooker temp 90 deg
room temp 60 deg

Conclusion:
Heat transfer capability of makeshift heat exchanger,
Impressively adequate

[Billy]

"pausto" > wrote in message
...
|
|
| Conclusion:
| Heat transfer capability of makeshift heat exchanger,
| Impressively adequate

Wow....well done. Perhaps I'm missing something, but how would this
be of benefit in a power outage, with the need to circulate water
through the exchanger? I suppose a UPS could push a *small* powerhead
for quite a while.......

[pausto]

Billy wrote:
>
> "pausto" > wrote in message
> ...
> |
> |
> | Conclusion:
> | Heat transfer capability of makeshift heat exchanger,
> | Impressively adequate
>
> Wow....well done. Perhaps I'm missing something, but how would this
> be of benefit in a power outage, with the need to circulate water
> through the exchanger? I suppose a UPS could push a *small* powerhead
> for quite a while.......

Thanks for the compliment. The test was fun.
And the results really surprized me!

The power head I used is small, 12 watts, as opposed to 300 watts of
electric heat. The sump filter pump is big though, 50 watts. I have
plans
for an inverter and some deep cycle batteries.

If I really get rambunctious, there is a small 50 watt pump designed
to circulate water from the house water heater, to keep the water hot
at
the sink taps. I could use that to heat my heat exchanger. And with
some
relays, it could all be made automatic.

But I haven't yet done any real calculations on how much deep cycle
battery it would take to run all this for say 5 hours. I could
turn off the main filter pump for 15 min each hour, and the heating
pumps would probably run 50% of the time. Less than 75 watts total
average, if I figured that right.

[Fuzzy]

quick math soloution for you. P= Power in Watts E=Voltage in Volts I=
current in amps

P=ExI Batterys are rated in amp hours, ie how many amps they will supply
per hour. They are also rated in minuets. How many minuets they will
supply the rated current for. Common deep cycling marine batterys would
run an average aquarium set up for a couple days in my opinion. Keep in
mind the invert itself will draw a surplus P and depending upon the type
and size this will affect the total calculation.



--
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[pausto]

Fuzzy wrote:
>
> quick math soloution for you. P= Power in Watts E=Voltage in Volts I=
> current in amps
>
> P=ExI Batterys are rated in amp hours, ie how many amps they will supply
> per hour. They are also rated in minuets. How many minuets they will
> supply the rated current for. Common deep cycling marine batterys would
> run an average aquarium set up for a couple days in my opinion. Keep in
> mind the invert itself will draw a surplus P and depending upon the type
> and size this will affect the total calculation.
>
> --
> Posted via CichlidFish.com
> http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums


Thanks for the info, and the push. I picked up a 350 watt inverter
over
the week end. And I already had a new 60 amp car battery, sitting
idle.

So, if I am running only my 45 watt main pump, then, 45w / 12v =
3.75 amp.
Then, My Inverter states that it is 90% efficient. So Would I multiply
3.75 times 110%, for 4.1 amps on the battery? If I have a 60 amp/hour
battery,
then 4.1 / 60 = 14.6 hrs. At least it should be more than 10 hours.
Does that sound right?

Paul

[pausto]

For the hell of it, I replaced the 6 quart cooker with a thin
aluminum 6 qt pot. Half filled with 86 deg water, just enough water
to cover the heat exchanger. Then heated the pot with a 7 oz can of
gel chaffing fuel (Sterno)
The pot temp raised to, and stabilized at 91 deg. The tank temp
raised from 78.6 to 79.2, and stayed there until the fuel went out,
2hr and 15 min later.
No tweaking of any thing, ran the exchanger pump continuous. Top of
the fuel can was 1.5 inches below the bottom of the pot. room temp 59
deg.


pausto wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about an alternative to electric resistance heat
> for
> my tank, in case of extended power loss or whatever. I'm thinking of
> using heat from my gas water heater, or perhaps a small alcohol stove.
> Today I played with a heat exchanger. Hope my notes aren't too
> confusing.
>
> Any input, thoughts, experiences, critique, would be appreciated.
>
> Paul
>
> =================
> Alternative Heat For Tank (experiment)
>
> Aquarium set up:
>
> Tank:
> -All Glass 75 gal
> -Glass top
> -one T-12 gro-lite
>
> Filter:
> -DIY trickle sump; 18 gal sweater box, and 5 gal bucket
> filled with bio media
> -Mag 5 pump with 1 in smooth bore flex hose, no elbows.
> 300
> GPH or better, I'm guessing.
>
> Overflow:
> -DIY HOT; Two large specimen boxes, with two 1 inch OD
> 'U' siphons
>
> Existing heat:
> -Two 150 watt EBO's in sump, controlled by external t-stat
> (Ranco ETC 111000)
>
> Other:
> -no plants
> -no power heads
> -total water column approx 78 gal us
>
> Residents:(in stanard length)
> -Clown loaches 5 2.5 to 3.5 inches
> -Rainbows 7 2.5 to 3.5 in
> -SAE's 5 3 to 3.25 inches
> -Skirt tetras 8 full grown
> -Runny noses 14
> -Oto's 6
> -Platies 2
> -And a Rubber nose Pl*co-sarus 2.25 in
> (Very peaceful playful tank)
>
> Makeshift Alternate Heat:
>
> Heat exchanger:
> -48 inch corrugated flexible stainless steel gas
> connector,
> intended for hookup of gas dryer.
> -ID nom 1/4in
> -OD, 1/2 inch'ish
> -Supplied with connectors for use with 1/2in standard pipe
> thread
> -Cleaned and flushed
>
> Brand: Brass Craft
> With: Pro Coat protective coating (thin Powder Coat)
> Available: Home Depot
> Cheap: $10 us
>
> Note: This item is pretty much the key component of the
> test
> It was selected for its cost, availability and its
> (hopefully) chemically inert properties.
> And with the hope that its heat transfer properties would
> be suitable.
>
> Heat source (for testing):
> -6 qt elec cooker with temp control
>
> Pump
> -Rio 800
> -12 watts rated
> -211 gph @ 0 ft lift, 100gph @ 3ft lift
> -probably running 100 to 150 gph with heat exch and
> tubing(no lift)
>
> Set up:
>
> Heat exchanger:
> -Form the stainless steel flex into a coil. It easily
> coiled
> down to a 1.5 in radius, for an
> -overall dim: under 4 in dia coil by 2 in tall (easily
> fit in a
> four quart pot)
> -adapt exchanger's 1/2 in pipe fittings with plastic (or
> stainless) adapters, for plastic tubing
>
> Hook up:
> -Connect discharge of pump to the heat exchanger coil with
> 2
> or 3 ft of plastic 1/2 ID tubing
> -Connect 2 or 3 ft of tubing to outlet of coil, to return
> water to sump.
>
> Install:
> -submerge pump and the open return tubing into sump
> -place connected heat exchanger into cooker filled with
> preheated
> water
>
> Run test:
> Init temp:
> -Room temp 59.2 deg (burrr)
> -Tank initial temp 78.5.
> -Cooker water init temp 110 deg
> -The two 150 watt tank heaters were cycled on
>
> Operation:
> -Start pump
> -Elec heaters cycle off within one minute.
> -Tank temp climbed from 78.6 to 79.2 in approx 15 min
> -Cooker temp dropped to 100 deg
>
> -during the subsequent 3 hours, The tank temp rose, very
> slowly to, and stabilized at, 80.2 deg
> -source water (cooker) temp dropped to, and stabilized at,
> 91 deg
>
> -Eight hours later;
> Tank temp 80.0 deg
> cooker temp 90 deg
> room temp 60 deg
>
> Conclusion:
> Heat transfer capability of makeshift heat exchanger,
> Impressively adequate

[Fuzzy]

It would be pretty close, given the specs on the battery. That is of
course if the battery is in the fully charged state. You can also get a
solar charger for the battery, to complete the system. They are pretty
inexpensive. How come it seems no mater what part of the hobby you get
into, cost just seem to keep adding up??



--
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http://www.cichlidfish.com/portal/forums