Preliminary Fish List!

[Lisa]

Hello, after watching my empty tank for a few days now, I am getting
itchy to start building my fish! (I know I have to add gradually and
slowly - probably no real fish for 2 weeks, and can't have the total
number for 2 months or more.)

Here is my fish plan: the preliminary "total fish list" for when my
tank is cycled and ready for gradual additions. I've researched the
species, and I am aiming for a community tank. I've compiled their
water parameter needs as well as their maximum sizes. What do you
think? Any red flags? Suggestions? Warnings? :-)

Tank parameters: (5=B0dH, 7.0 ph) 50 Gallon bow-front tank, with 404
Fluval canister filter, 2-inches medium gravel, only one small live
plant so far

Desired Fish:
1-2 large angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare?)
* 6-8 ph
* 5=B0dH-13=B0dH
* 6" max size (12" total fish)
6 Cory catfish (Corydoras aeneus?)
* 6 - 8 ph
* 5=B0dH - 19=B0dH
* 2.7"max size (16.2" total fish)
6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Rhombatractus praecox)
* 6 - 8 ph
* 8=B0dH - 16=B0dH
* 1.9" max size (11.4" total fish)
4 Blue Gouramis (favorite!) (Trichogaster trichopterus)
* 6 - 8.8 ph
* 5=B0dH - 20=B0dH
* 3.5" max size (14" total fish size)
1 Bristle-nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp)
* 5.8 - 7.8 ph
* 5=B0dH - 19=B0dH
* 4.7" max size

Question: is my water too soft for the Rainbowfish? Total Fish number:
16-17 Total "Fish Inches" at maturity: 52.3 - 58.3"
Thanks for any advice!

- Lisa

[Victor Martinez]

Lisa wrote:
> 6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Rhombatractus praecox)

When did they change genus?

> Question: is my water too soft for the Rainbowfish? Total Fish number:

Water hardness is not that relevant unless you're planning on breeding
certain species. They'll be fine.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Lisa]

>> 6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Rhombatractus praecox)
> When did they change genus?

I got that from a fish info website - www.fishprofiles.com - it's
listed as a "synonym." ??
I must have grabbed the wrong name. Maybe it should be Melanotaenia
praecox.
Sorry about that.

- Lisa

[Sue]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello, after watching my empty tank for a few days now, I am getting
itchy to start building my fish! (I know I have to add gradually and
slowly - probably no real fish for 2 weeks, and can't have the total
number for 2 months or more.)


Err?
Why two weeks? - either you run the tank for a few days to make sure the
equipment works & then start the cycle with hardy fish after a couple of
days, do a fishless cycle which typically takes at least three to four
weeks or do a boosted cycle using mature filter media & feed it for a few
days - so you'd have a few days wait or a few weeks wait but two weeks
doesn't work out.

You actually can't have the total number for around six months.

If you want angels & blue gouramis you'll need to have some tall plants or
decor so they can get out of each others line of sight - both species can be
territorial & if they can see the whole tank at once they'll claim the whole
tank ;o)

HTH
Sue

[Victor Martinez]

Lisa wrote:
> I must have grabbed the wrong name. Maybe it should be Melanotaenia
> praecox.

That's the genus I'm familiar with.
http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Contents.htm

> Sorry about that.

Nothing to be sorry about, I learned a new thing today. :)

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[NetMax]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello, after watching my empty tank for a few days now, I am getting
itchy to start building my fish! (I know I have to add gradually and
slowly - probably no real fish for 2 weeks, and can't have the total
number for 2 months or more.)

Here is my fish plan: the preliminary "total fish list" for when my
tank is cycled and ready for gradual additions. I've researched the
species, and I am aiming for a community tank. I've compiled their
water parameter needs as well as their maximum sizes. What do you
think? Any red flags? Suggestions? Warnings? :-)

Tank parameters: (5°dH, 7.0 ph) 50 Gallon bow-front tank, with 404
Fluval canister filter, 2-inches medium gravel, only one small live
plant so far

Desired Fish:
1-2 large angelfish
6 Cory catfish
6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish
4 Blue Gouramis (favorite!)
1 Bristle-nose Pleco

snipped out the unneccesary stuff (for me).

I think that's a nice mix, and my only behavioural reservation would be
around your favorite fish. Gouramis vary in how territorial they are,
and the Blues are up there in the top 5 worst. The only fish in danger
(besides other gouramis) are the Angels. You would improve your odds
considerably with plants which reach the surface, and by starting with
Gourami juveniles. I would also be tempted to start with 3 Angels,
rather than just 2 (spreads internal quarrels better).

In terms of layers, I think everything is well represented, with the
Corys/Plec at the bottom, Angels/Rainbowfish in the middle, and the Blues
in the middle/top. I would think about adding some reds or oranges for
contrast. Maybe some Kuhli loaches and switch to a smaller cory. I pick
my corys based on substrate colour.

ps: my favorite Angelfish is the Altum, but they are often hard to find,
and don't come in any fancy colours, so it's an aquired taste ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

- Lisa

[Lisa]

>I think that's a nice mix, and my only behavioural reservation would
be
>around your favorite fish. Gouramis vary in how territorial they are,
>and the Blues are up there in the top 5 worst. The only fish in danger

>(besides other gouramis) are the Angels. You would improve your odds
>considerably with plants which reach the surface, and by starting with

>Gourami juveniles. I would also be tempted to start with 3 Angels,
>rather than just 2 (spreads internal quarrels better).

Good point about the Gouramis. I had an old Blue Gourami (aka "Gary
the Gourami") for 6-7 years that was my all-time favorite "buddy" fish.
He got along OK with one other Blue (I think they were tankmates when
very young, though) and then, later, OK with a newer Pearl. He
outlasted them both by quite awhile. I never observed any signs of
fighting, but there were never more than 2 fish at a time in that tank.
That's why the Blue Gourami is kind of a sentimental favorite with me
now. He was moody, and seemed so responsive. I remember when he
sulked terribly when I added 5 zip-fast zebra Danios. His whole BODY
looked grumpy, and he kept hiding. He then perked up when I moved the
Danios to another tank, and would wiggle in front of the tank when I
came over. In keeping him all those years, I first realized how
personable certain fish can be.

Would (3 angelfish) and several dwarf Gouramis maybe work better than
the Blues? Or, skip the angels (my tank is rectangular and wide,
anyway, although it is 50 gall.) and just have 6 Blue Gouramis? (Or is
that guaranteeing fights?) 3 Angels and no Blues - maybe Pearls
instead? Or Red Flame Honey Gouramis to add the red contrast you
mentioned? Argh - so many choices! :-)
Thanks for all the good suggestions.

- Lisa

[Ozdude]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Would (3 angelfish) and several dwarf Gouramis maybe work better than
> the Blues? Or, skip the angels (my tank is rectangular and wide,
> anyway, although it is 50 gall.) and just have 6 Blue Gouramis? (Or is
> that guaranteeing fights?) 3 Angels and no Blues - maybe Pearls
> instead? Or Red Flame Honey Gouramis to add the red contrast you
> mentioned? Argh - so many choices! :-)
> Thanks for all the good suggestions.

I was going to suggest Dwarf ( Colisa lalia ), Honey ( Trichogaster chuna )
or Flame ( Colisa lalia ) as alternative to the semi-agressive larger types.

I myself am fixing to get myself a couple of pairs of Colisa lalia in a few
weeks.

I just want to get my plants, currents and CO2/pH/KH right first.

I am not sure whether to try the Hydrogen Peroxide bath on them that I am so
fascinated in at the moment, over quaranting them for 4 weeks in the other
tank. We'll see when the time gets closer to get them.

They are beautifil fish and I've been told they get on well in a Community
tank, except when they are protecting territory (when they breed or blow
bubble nests).

I have Serpae, Black Neons and Hockey Sticks atm, so I too am wondering if
the Serpaes will leave the Gouramis alone - it must be noted though, since
the tank move the Serpae have been shoaling, and seem far too interested in
mating with each other than to be chasing and fin nipping as they were
before. I think my old tank may have been overstocked ;)

Oz

[Mary Burns]

Angels are very individual, and my 2 goldens appear to be a spawning pair.
As angels are very hard to sex until they spawn/pair up, and by then are
large if you need a back up plan if one is very agressive.Mine are in 65gall
with platies and one has just turned into a real cichlid male
overnight,terrorizing his mate. Being a good 8" tall,too big for my other
tanks. Be prepared with another 25g tall as they get bigger!!! Of course
your's might turn out to be "little angels" with no problems. They are
delightful fish and very beautiful. Mine are fine with platies, cories/otos
and 3 clowns.
"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello, after watching my empty tank for a few days now, I am getting
itchy to start building my fish! (I know I have to add gradually and
slowly - probably no real fish for 2 weeks, and can't have the total
number for 2 months or more.)

Here is my fish plan: the preliminary "total fish list" for when my
tank is cycled and ready for gradual additions. I've researched the
species, and I am aiming for a community tank. I've compiled their
water parameter needs as well as their maximum sizes. What do you
think? Any red flags? Suggestions? Warnings? :-)

Tank parameters: (5°dH, 7.0 ph) 50 Gallon bow-front tank, with 404
Fluval canister filter, 2-inches medium gravel, only one small live
plant so far

Desired Fish:
1-2 large angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare?)
* 6-8 ph
* 5°dH-13°dH
* 6" max size (12" total fish)
6 Cory catfish (Corydoras aeneus?)
* 6 - 8 ph
* 5°dH - 19°dH
* 2.7"max size (16.2" total fish)
6 Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Rhombatractus praecox)
* 6 - 8 ph
* 8°dH - 16°dH
* 1.9" max size (11.4" total fish)
4 Blue Gouramis (favorite!) (Trichogaster trichopterus)
* 6 - 8.8 ph
* 5°dH - 20°dH
* 3.5" max size (14" total fish size)
1 Bristle-nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp)
* 5.8 - 7.8 ph
* 5°dH - 19°dH
* 4.7" max size

Question: is my water too soft for the Rainbowfish? Total Fish number:
16-17 Total "Fish Inches" at maturity: 52.3 - 58.3"
Thanks for any advice!

- Lisa

[NetMax]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >I think that's a nice mix, and my only behavioural reservation would
> be
>>around your favorite fish. Gouramis vary in how territorial they are,
>>and the Blues are up there in the top 5 worst. The only fish in danger
>
>>(besides other gouramis) are the Angels. You would improve your odds
>>considerably with plants which reach the surface, and by starting with
>
>>Gourami juveniles. I would also be tempted to start with 3 Angels,
>>rather than just 2 (spreads internal quarrels better).
>
> Good point about the Gouramis. I had an old Blue Gourami (aka "Gary
> the Gourami") for 6-7 years that was my all-time favorite "buddy" fish.
> He got along OK with one other Blue (I think they were tankmates when
> very young, though) and then, later, OK with a newer Pearl. He
> outlasted them both by quite awhile. I never observed any signs of
> fighting, but there were never more than 2 fish at a time in that tank.
> That's why the Blue Gourami is kind of a sentimental favorite with me
> now. He was moody, and seemed so responsive. I remember when he
> sulked terribly when I added 5 zip-fast zebra Danios. His whole BODY
> looked grumpy, and he kept hiding. He then perked up when I moved the
> Danios to another tank, and would wiggle in front of the tank when I
> came over. In keeping him all those years, I first realized how
> personable certain fish can be.
>
> Would (3 angelfish) and several dwarf Gouramis maybe work better than
> the Blues? Or, skip the angels (my tank is rectangular and wide,
> anyway, although it is 50 gall.) and just have 6 Blue Gouramis? (Or is
> that guaranteeing fights?) 3 Angels and no Blues - maybe Pearls
> instead? Or Red Flame Honey Gouramis to add the red contrast you
> mentioned? Argh - so many choices! :-)
> Thanks for all the good suggestions.
>
> - Lisa


The requirement for Angels is a tall tank (or at least not short), and
not too turbulent (or having enough quiet zones for them to hang out in).
Pearl gouramis are a very nice choice, getting reasonably large (so you
don't need many) and having a much better disposition. They are somewhat
monotone though, so it just depends on your objectives. A few Flame
gouramis would work too, but keep in mind that the personable
characteristics you watched with your Blue, tend to diminish as you go to
smaller fish, though this is a generality. Sometimes I'll narrow my
choices down to 2 or 3 fish, and then I'll tour all the local pet shops
to see what their stock looks like. Sometimes my purchase is even one of
my 2-3 choices ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[TYNK 7]

(Snipped)

>Subject: Preliminary Fish List!
>From: "Lisa"
>Date: 1/12/2005 1:47 P.M. Central Standard Time
>Message-id: . com>

>16-17 Total "Fish Inches" at maturity

Lisa....you need to forget about this "total inches of fish" crud.
I understand you must be getting it from the old, outdated, and useless "rule"
that said one of fish per gallon of water.
That doesn't apply to most of the fish in this hobby.
So, toss that out of your head. Yes...far, far away from your head. = )
What that old "rule" doesn't take into consideration is that certain types of
fish need different requirements when it comes to territory.
Certain species cannot be housed with others, etc.
An example of the 1 inch per gallon doesn't work:
Oscars. That rule says you can put a 10" Oscar in a ten gallon tank.
You couldn't put a 10" Oscar in a 29g tank!
That rule says you can have 2) 10" Oscars in a 20g tank. Bah! They'd have the
tank busted in a matter of minutes just trying to turn around.
Plecostomus. You'd never be able to fit a 10" Pleco in a 10g tank. I mean, you
could, but he wouldn't be able to move.
Blue, 3 spot Gouramis.....that old rule allows you to have 2) 5" blue Gopuramis
in a 10g. Nope. They need larger territory and will fight constantly when fully
grown.
Goldfish. Goldies need (min) 10g per fish..however more for some varieties such
as Comets which get about 16" long, and Koi...even larger.
Goldies need more than just space too, they also need a very good filtrations
system...because of their body mass, as well as the amount of waste that they
put out into the water (far more than other hobby fish), they certainly can't
go by the 1 inch per gallon rule..it would be their death for sure.
When considering fish for a tank, their adult size is only one factor. Of
course it needs to be taken into consideration, but many more things must also
be too.
The best thing you can do is research what fish you fancy, research their
individual tank requirements, and take it from there.
Don't fret so much about pH, as unless it's in the extremes....leave it alone.
Most fish adapt to a different pH than what is "by the book" for them.
Unless breeding, usually you just need to acclimate them slowly to the pH of
your tank/ household water.
Oh..one more thing....you also need to check individual specie personalities as
well.
You mentioned wanting Gouramis.
In this group of fishes you can go from vicious (Blue and Gold 3 spot
Gouramis), to quite peaceful (Powder Blue, Pearl, and more).
Some you cannot house together, such as a Paradise Gourami and a Blue..or even
a closely related specie.,.such as having a male Betta and a Paradise Gourami
in the same tank. (If this happened, it would be a night out at the boxing ring
for sure).
So take your time and do the research.
ASK questions. Kudos to you for doing the research now! You're already ahead of
the newbie pack. = )
Look back..how's it look. hehe = )~

[Lisa]

Yes, I knew the one-inch per gallon is limited and not very useful in
many situations. (But I didn't know it as well or as deeply as what
you posted here - so thanks!) I was just trying hard to avoid
overloading the tank, so I was trying to use ANYTHING that might serve
as a rough guideline. I don't want the little guys squooshed. And, as
NetMax pointed out, the 4 Blue Gouramis probably won't work in the type
of tank I am wanting. I am tentatively planning on Dwarf Flame Gouramis
instead (love those colors!).

There isn't much posted on the Web or in books in the way of "stocking
recipes" or guidelines that I could find, so I was trying for a "best
guess."

Thanks for all the info. I'll now clear my head of the "one inch per
gallon" ratio. :-)

- Lisa

TYNK 7 wrote:
> (Snipped)
>
> >Subject: Preliminary Fish List!
> >From: "Lisa"
> >Date: 1/12/2005 1:47 P.M. Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: . com>
>
> >16-17 Total "Fish Inches" at maturity
>
> Lisa....you need to forget about this "total inches of fish" crud.
> I understand you must be getting it from the old, outdated, and
useless "rule"
> that said one of fish per gallon of water.
> That doesn't apply to most of the fish in this hobby.
> So, toss that out of your head. Yes...far, far away from your head. =
)
> What that old "rule" doesn't take into consideration is that certain
types of
> fish need different requirements when it comes to territory.
> Certain species cannot be housed with others, etc.
> An example of the 1 inch per gallon doesn't work:
> Oscars. That rule says you can put a 10" Oscar in a ten gallon tank.
> You couldn't put a 10" Oscar in a 29g tank!
> That rule says you can have 2) 10" Oscars in a 20g tank. Bah! They'd
have the
> tank busted in a matter of minutes just trying to turn around.
> Plecostomus. You'd never be able to fit a 10" Pleco in a 10g tank. I
mean, you
> could, but he wouldn't be able to move.
> Blue, 3 spot Gouramis.....that old rule allows you to have 2) 5" blue
Gopuramis
> in a 10g. Nope. They need larger territory and will fight constantly
when fully
> grown.
> Goldfish. Goldies need (min) 10g per fish..however more for some
varieties such
> as Comets which get about 16" long, and Koi...even larger.
> Goldies need more than just space too, they also need a very good
filtrations
> system...because of their body mass, as well as the amount of waste
that they
> put out into the water (far more than other hobby fish), they
certainly can't
> go by the 1 inch per gallon rule..it would be their death for sure.
> When considering fish for a tank, their adult size is only one
factor. Of
> course it needs to be taken into consideration, but many more things
must also
> be too.
> The best thing you can do is research what fish you fancy, research
their
> individual tank requirements, and take it from there.
> Don't fret so much about pH, as unless it's in the extremes....leave
it alone.
> Most fish adapt to a different pH than what is "by the book" for
them.
> Unless breeding, usually you just need to acclimate them slowly to
the pH of
> your tank/ household water.
> Oh..one more thing....you also need to check individual specie
personalities as
> well.
> You mentioned wanting Gouramis.
> In this group of fishes you can go from vicious (Blue and Gold 3 spot
> Gouramis), to quite peaceful (Powder Blue, Pearl, and more).
> Some you cannot house together, such as a Paradise Gourami and a
Blue..or even
> a closely related specie.,.such as having a male Betta and a Paradise
Gourami
> in the same tank. (If this happened, it would be a night out at the
boxing ring
> for sure).
> So take your time and do the research.
> ASK questions. Kudos to you for doing the research now! You're
already ahead of
> the newbie pack. = )
> Look back..how's it look. hehe = )~