Swimbladder again

[NHSuz]

Hi - I am new to groups, so here goes.

I have a Ryukin with swimbladder problems, I think.
My husband brought him inside from our pond on November 15th. He was
floating on top and my husband didn't want him to die as ice was
forming on the top of the pond.
(We have 3 koi outside that we pretty much ignore except to feed once a
day when they are interested and to do a 1/2 water change to the pond -
which is set up with 3 small waterfalls and gravel filter) This fish is
the only surviving goldfish and is a baby from the original Ryukins we
purchased along with the koi in 1999.

Anyway....So, we were suddenly into becoming indoor fish pet people.
I purchased a 29 gal tank - whisper power filter and
heater.

Tried a bacterial treatment initially. (Of course, I didn't realize
about the tank cycling and the ammonia shot right up).
But, he lived through that. SO, I purchased all of the necessary
bottles of 'stuff' for testing Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates/PH.
I also did many water changes and Ammonia is zero now and nitrites
then shot up and are now about a 2 on the test sheet.

I have tried giving him -
1) very small sinking pellets,
2) peas (coaxing him with it on a toothpick),then using an eye dropper
to get it into him. He spits most of it out!
3)I have tried using an eye dropper to get thawed shrimp brine into
him.
I have yet to see him go for ANY food on his own. For some reason, he
is still alive.!

Two weeks ago, I tried a fungal disease treatment for 4 days. He just
became very lethargic. I have tried moving him to a bucket and doing a
15min. epson salt bath.

He is still swimming upside down or lying on his side at the top of
the aquarium. He does get these spurts of activity and dashes about,
though. I don't want to give up on him.

FINALLY... to get to my question...
I recently read a post in this site from someone who
said to
- raise the water temp to 85 degrees and then
add 1 teaspoon of epsom salts to each gallon of water .
Do this for 48 hrs. or so.
Then, do large water changes for the next few weeks to get
rid of the epsom salts.

Why epsom salts? Why not use Aquarium salt? Will I have a better
chance with epsom salts?

Thank you.

[~ Windsong ~]

"NHSuz" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi - I am new to groups, so here goes.
>
> I have a Ryukin with swimbladder problems, I think.
> My husband brought him inside from our pond on November 15th. He was
> floating on top and my husband didn't want him to die as ice was
> forming on the top of the pond.
-------------------------------------
Have you Googled this NG for swimbladder problems. There must be 1000
threads on the subject. Or simply scroll down using your newsreader. I
myself no longer even make suggestions on how to treat this problem because
in the end the fish dies no matter what! I no longer keep the egg-shaped
GF for this very reason. I have seen this swimbladder problem in these fish
as young as 6 weeks of age - long before they even started on commercial
feeds. I know many will disagree with me on this but I feel the kindest
thing you can do is humanely put the fish down and end it's suffering.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[NHSuz]

Thank you for your response - Yes, I have googled this site - but I
still don't know why epsom salts are suggested instead of aquarium salt
for treating a goldfish for swimbladder.
I'm just not ready to put him down yet. Sorry.

[Katra]

In article . com>,
"NHSuz" > wrote:

> Thank you for your response - Yes, I have googled this site - but I
> still don't know why epsom salts are suggested instead of aquarium salt
> for treating a goldfish for swimbladder.
> I'm just not ready to put him down yet. Sorry.
>

I think the mineral content is slightly different...

Good luck with him!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

[Vicki PS]

"NHSuz" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thank you for your response - Yes, I have googled this site - but I
> still don't know why epsom salts are suggested instead of aquarium salt
> for treating a goldfish for swimbladder.
> I'm just not ready to put him down yet. Sorry.
>

Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate. As I understand it, epsom salts acts as
a laxative, to (hopefully) ease any gas or blockage in the fish's intestine
that might be causing pressure on the swim bladder.

Vicki PS

[NHSuz]

Thank you.

Katra wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "NHSuz" > wrote:
>
> > Thank you for your response - Yes, I have googled this site - but I
> > still don't know why epsom salts are suggested instead of aquarium
salt
> > for treating a goldfish for swimbladder.
> > I'm just not ready to put him down yet. Sorry.
> >
>
> I think the mineral content is slightly different...
>
> Good luck with him!
> --
> K.
>
> Sprout the MungBean to reply
>
> "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell=8Byou
> see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

[NHSuz]

Thank you for your response.

[Starfish]

Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
salt.....its not really a salt
"NHSuz" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi - I am new to groups, so here goes.
>
> I have a Ryukin with swimbladder problems, I think.
> My husband brought him inside from our pond on November 15th. He was
> floating on top and my husband didn't want him to die as ice was
> forming on the top of the pond.
> (We have 3 koi outside that we pretty much ignore except to feed once a
> day when they are interested and to do a 1/2 water change to the pond -
> which is set up with 3 small waterfalls and gravel filter) This fish is
> the only surviving goldfish and is a baby from the original Ryukins we
> purchased along with the koi in 1999.
>
> Anyway....So, we were suddenly into becoming indoor fish pet people.
> I purchased a 29 gal tank - whisper power filter and
> heater.
>
> Tried a bacterial treatment initially. (Of course, I didn't realize
> about the tank cycling and the ammonia shot right up).
> But, he lived through that. SO, I purchased all of the necessary
> bottles of 'stuff' for testing Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates/PH.
> I also did many water changes and Ammonia is zero now and nitrites
> then shot up and are now about a 2 on the test sheet.
>
> I have tried giving him -
> 1) very small sinking pellets,
> 2) peas (coaxing him with it on a toothpick),then using an eye dropper
> to get it into him. He spits most of it out!
> 3)I have tried using an eye dropper to get thawed shrimp brine into
> him.
> I have yet to see him go for ANY food on his own. For some reason, he
> is still alive.!
>
> Two weeks ago, I tried a fungal disease treatment for 4 days. He just
> became very lethargic. I have tried moving him to a bucket and doing a
> 15min. epson salt bath.
>
> He is still swimming upside down or lying on his side at the top of
> the aquarium. He does get these spurts of activity and dashes about,
> though. I don't want to give up on him.
>
> FINALLY... to get to my question...
> I recently read a post in this site from someone who
> said to
> - raise the water temp to 85 degrees and then
> add 1 teaspoon of epsom salts to each gallon of water .
> Do this for 48 hrs. or so.
> Then, do large water changes for the next few weeks to get
> rid of the epsom salts.
>
> Why epsom salts? Why not use Aquarium salt? Will I have a better
> chance with epsom salts?
>
> Thank you.
>

[Vicki PS]

"Starfish" > wrote in message
...
> Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
> salt.....its not really a salt


Just a small nit to pick -- magnesium sulfate is a salt. A salt is a
chemical compound formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen ions of an
acid with metal ions or electropositive radicals. Sodium chloride is
"common salt".

Vicki PS

[[email protected]]

Vicki PS wrote:
> "Starfish" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
> > salt.....its not really a salt
>
>
> Just a small nit to pick -- magnesium sulfate is a salt. A salt is
a
> chemical compound formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen
ions of an
> acid with metal ions or electropositive radicals. Sodium chloride is
> "common salt".
>
> Vicki PS

I have read to raise the temperature like you did....give a little
yogurt daily...another issue is to surgerically fix it-not sure about
that. Go to Koivet as they have a lot of good ideas....right now my
Orandas are still in my pond at 59 degrees (I have a pond
heater)...they seem OK...knock on wood.

[Starfish]

Thanks i see what you mean about that
"Vicki PS" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Starfish" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
>> salt.....its not really a salt
>
>
> Just a small nit to pick -- magnesium sulfate is a salt. A salt is a
> chemical compound formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen ions of
> an
> acid with metal ions or electropositive radicals. Sodium chloride is
> "common salt".
>
> Vicki PS
>
>

[Katra]

In article om>,
" > wrote:

> Vicki PS wrote:
> > "Starfish" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
> > > salt.....its not really a salt
> >
> >
> > Just a small nit to pick -- magnesium sulfate is a salt. A salt is
> a
> > chemical compound formed by replacing all or part of the hydrogen
> ions of an
> > acid with metal ions or electropositive radicals. Sodium chloride is
> > "common salt".
> >
> > Vicki PS
>
> I have read to raise the temperature like you did....give a little
> yogurt daily...another issue is to surgerically fix it-not sure about
> that. Go to Koivet as they have a lot of good ideas....right now my
> Orandas are still in my pond at 59 degrees (I have a pond
> heater)...they seem OK...knock on wood.
>

What causes swim bladder problems like this?
Infection? And if so, why not use an antibiotic?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

[[email protected]]

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
read it all because most floating is unrelated to swim bladder problems.

"NHSuz" > wrote:

>Hi - I am new to groups, so here goes.
>
>I have a Ryukin with swimbladder problems, I think.
>My husband brought him inside from our pond on November 15th. He was
>floating on top and my husband didn't want him to die as ice was
>forming on the top of the pond.
>(We have 3 koi outside that we pretty much ignore except to feed once a
>day when they are interested and to do a 1/2 water change to the pond -
>which is set up with 3 small waterfalls and gravel filter) This fish is
>the only surviving goldfish and is a baby from the original Ryukins we
>purchased along with the koi in 1999.
>
>Anyway....So, we were suddenly into becoming indoor fish pet people.
>I purchased a 29 gal tank - whisper power filter and
>heater.
>
>Tried a bacterial treatment initially. (Of course, I didn't realize
>about the tank cycling and the ammonia shot right up).
>But, he lived through that. SO, I purchased all of the necessary
>bottles of 'stuff' for testing Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates/PH.
>I also did many water changes and Ammonia is zero now and nitrites
>then shot up and are now about a 2 on the test sheet.
>
>I have tried giving him -
>1) very small sinking pellets,
>2) peas (coaxing him with it on a toothpick),then using an eye dropper
>to get it into him. He spits most of it out!
>3)I have tried using an eye dropper to get thawed shrimp brine into
>him.
>I have yet to see him go for ANY food on his own. For some reason, he
>is still alive.!
>
>Two weeks ago, I tried a fungal disease treatment for 4 days. He just
>became very lethargic. I have tried moving him to a bucket and doing a
>15min. epson salt bath.
>
>He is still swimming upside down or lying on his side at the top of
>the aquarium. He does get these spurts of activity and dashes about,
>though. I don't want to give up on him.
>
>FINALLY... to get to my question...
>I recently read a post in this site from someone who
>said to
>- raise the water temp to 85 degrees and then
>add 1 teaspoon of epsom salts to each gallon of water .
>Do this for 48 hrs. or so.
>Then, do large water changes for the next few weeks to get
>rid of the epsom salts.
>
>Why epsom salts? Why not use Aquarium salt? Will I have a better
>chance with epsom salts?
>
>Thank you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

both mgso4 and nacl are salts. salt is a generic term for an ionic compound. Ingrid

>Epsom salts is magneseum sulphate......totally different to normal
>salt.....its not really a salt


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.