Algae damn

[steve]

Topic says it all. I'm in a life or death struggle with algae in my
big tank. The two twentys are in fine shape. The cork tank is newly
set up, the honeymoon suite, now nursery, is also clean and brite.

The 55g, now that's another story. It's been going the longest, has
the highest fish load, the most plants, the most light, and the most
fuzzy hair algae I've ever seen. All the plants are (were) covered
with it now. Also, to add to the ugliness and unkempt look, I've got a
nice crop of blue green bacteria trying it's best to cover up my new
dwarf marsh grass.

I took two steps yesterday to combat both. On the one front, I
re-positioned my power head to provide more circluation. It had been
pointing down an UGF lift tube hole for RUGF. Now it pushes water
accross the entire front wall of the tank, providing a circular flow.

To take on the fuzz, I tried the bleach dip approach. I have java
fern, Amazon swords and Crypts that are afflicted. The newer plants
I've added show minimal signs. So, out come half the swords, the
larger cruyts and all the java fern. Into a bucket of 19:1 water to
bleach for 4 minutes. The algae was visibly affected, turning white
and quite dead looking. The plants seemed no worse for wear. After
the rinse, they are back in the tank and pearling O2.

Now a question: How to keep the stuff at bay? Here's the set up:

55g tank, 48L 20H 12W
pH 6.7 with C02 injection at 20ppm
KH 3deg
temp 79f
Nitrates between 5 and 20, fluctuate with the amount of KNO3 I add.
Potassium and Phosphorus added minimally per the dosing pages. I shoot
for the optimun amount. There are a couple of plant spikes (trace
elements) deep under the large plants.

I've got 5 ottos in there, and just added a couple of large amano
shrimp, but those critters aren't going to touch this fuzz stuff if it
comes back strong like this past week.
thanks for any hints, suggestions,
steve

[Richard]

In article . com>,
steve > wrote:
>Topic says it all. I'm in a life or death struggle with algae in my
>big tank. The two twentys are in fine shape. The cork tank is newly

When I have a green mess Ichange 80% of the water eevry day till it clears up.
Usually 4-5 days, they 50% every other day so the gravel leeches out
properly.

It's always worked for me so far. Give it a try.

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[Ozdude]

"steve" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Now a question: How to keep the stuff at bay? Here's the set up:
>
> 55g tank, 48L 20H 12W
> pH 6.7 with C02 injection at 20ppm
> KH 3deg
> temp 79f
> Nitrates between 5 and 20, fluctuate with the amount of KNO3 I add.
> Potassium and Phosphorus added minimally per the dosing pages. I shoot
> for the optimun amount. There are a couple of plant spikes (trace
> elements) deep under the large plants.
>
> I've got 5 ottos in there, and just added a couple of large amano
> shrimp, but those critters aren't going to touch this fuzz stuff if it
> comes back strong like this past week.
> thanks for any hints, suggestions,

Are you over feeding? It doesn't sound like anything other than that to me,
unless there is something in your water out of the tap.

Oz


--
My Aquatic web Blog is at http://members.optusnet.com.au/ivan.smith

[js1]

On 2005-01-17, steve > wrote:
> Now a question: How to keep the stuff at bay? Here's the set up:
>
> 55g tank, 48L 20H 12W
> pH 6.7 with C02 injection at 20ppm
> KH 3deg
> temp 79f
> Nitrates between 5 and 20, fluctuate with the amount of KNO3 I add.
> Potassium and Phosphorus added minimally per the dosing pages. I shoot
> for the optimun amount. There are a couple of plant spikes (trace
> elements) deep under the large plants.
>

Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
Keep up the Potassium. Remove algae infected foliage as convenient.
You'll just have to be patient.

http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=9

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[Richard]

>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.

ALL fishfood?

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[js1]

On 2005-01-18, Richard > wrote:
>>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
>
> ALL fishfood?
>

Absolutely! ;-)


--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[Richard]

In article >, js1 > wrote:
>On 2005-01-18, Richard > wrote:
>>>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
>>
>> ALL fishfood?
>>
>
>Absolutely! ;-)

Ok, well roughly how much phosphate is there in white worms fed pumpernikel
fed to fish 3X a week and nothing else? (my water is pretty cold)


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[Elaine T]

Richard wrote:
> In article >, js1 > wrote:
>
>>On 2005-01-18, Richard > wrote:
>>
>>>>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
>>>
>>>ALL fishfood?
>>>
>>
>>Absolutely! ;-)
>
>
> Ok, well roughly how much phosphate is there in white worms fed pumpernikel
> fed to fish 3X a week and nothing else? (my water is pretty cold)
>
>
It's not what's in the food...it's what comes out the other end of your
fish. ;-)

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard]

In article >,
Elaine T > wrote:
>Richard wrote:
>> In article >, js1 > wrote:
>>
>>>On 2005-01-18, Richard > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
>>>>
>>>>ALL fishfood?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Absolutely! ;-)
>>
>>
>> Ok, well roughly how much phosphate is there in white worms fed pumpernikel
>> fed to fish 3X a week and nothing else? (my water is pretty cold)
>>
>>
>It's not what's in the food...it's what comes out the other end of your
>fish. ;-)


It's gotta be in the food, fish can't synthesize phosphate.


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[steve]

Richard wrote:
> In article . com>,
> steve > wrote:
> >Topic says it all. I'm in a life or death struggle with algae in my
> >big tank. The two twentys are in fine shape. The cork tank is
newly
>
> When I have a green mess Ichange 80% of the water eevry day till it
clears up.
> Usually 4-5 days, they 50% every other day so the gravel leeches out
> properly.
>
> It's always worked for me so far. Give it a try.
>

Thanks for the acvice, Richard. I'll give that a go after the blackout
period I'm trying now.

steve

[steve]

Ozdude wrote:


> Are you over feeding? It doesn't sound like anything other than that
to me,
> unless there is something in your water out of the tap.
>
> Oz


Ya know, Oz, I'm not sure. When I was a kid, and warned about
overfeeding Sammy the goldfish, overfeeding meant using only the food
he could eat in 5 minutes. Now, I'm starting to understand overfeeding
from a different prospective. Just a few years ago I had a tank
running crystal clear for two years. What I didn't know is that the
nitrates were probably running in the mid two hundreds! I just had a
humungous bacteria colony able to process all the food.

So when I've been feeding this tank, I've been very careful, and
actually proud of myself for not overfeeding. Or have I been? I feed
once a day, only the amount the neons and angels can eat in about 2
minutes. In that two minutes however, they absolutely gorge themselves
and turn into round balls with head, tail and fins. When I give them
live or frozen brine shrimp, the angel fish have extended stomachs that
look as if they will pop!

So my fish aren't over fed, just ask them. :>) But I think I'm
overfeeding my _tank_. With the plants I've got going and water
changes my nitrate levels are staying low, around 10, not more than 20.
After the last water change, the nitrates were only 5 or so. I'm going
to try less food, start 'em off on a new years diet, see if I can keep
the nitrates at zero from food, and then either feed a bit more or dose
KNO3 to boost the plants.

steve

[Elaine T]

Richard wrote:
> In article >,
> Elaine T > wrote:
>
>>Richard wrote:
>>
>>>In article >, js1 > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 2005-01-18, Richard > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Stop dosing phosphorus. Your fish food should provide enough of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>ALL fishfood?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Absolutely! ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, well roughly how much phosphate is there in white worms fed pumpernikel
>>>fed to fish 3X a week and nothing else? (my water is pretty cold)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It's not what's in the food...it's what comes out the other end of your
>>fish. ;-)
>
>
> It's gotta be in the food, fish can't synthesize phosphate.
>
>
Heh. No living organism can transmute elements - you're taking me far
too seriously. Wheee...alchemy in the fishtank! My point was that the
phosphate in fish food is used by the fish and then excreted. Of
course, the intial source of phosphate into the tank is the food.

Steve,
ALL fishfood has phosphorus and nitrogen, whether it's plant or animal
based. Phosphorus is an essential component of DNA, RNA, cell
membranes, and the cell's energy systems, and nitrogen comes from
protein. If you're worried, first follow Richard's advice and stop all
phosphate. Personally, with nitrates between 5 and 20, I'd stop dosing
that as well because you're also adding nitrate to the tank with your
fishfood.

See how your plants do for a few weeks after Richard's water change
regime with no added N or P. If your nitrate actually zeros out, you
might add some back. Wait a few weeks more and if you still feel an
irresistable urge to add P, add a fraction of what you were and be
prepared to change lots of water at the first signs of increased algae
growth.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[steve]

Elaine T wrote:
> Steve,
> ALL fishfood has phosphorus and nitrogen, whether it's plant or
animal
> based. Phosphorus is an essential component of DNA, RNA, cell
> membranes, and the cell's energy systems, and nitrogen comes from
> protein. If you're worried, first follow Richard's advice and stop
all
> phosphate. Personally, with nitrates between 5 and 20, I'd stop
dosing
> that as well because you're also adding nitrate to the tank with your

> fishfood.
>
> See how your plants do for a few weeks after Richard's water change
> regime with no added N or P. If your nitrate actually zeros out,
you
> might add some back. Wait a few weeks more and if you still feel an
> irresistable urge to add P, add a fraction of what you were and be
> prepared to change lots of water at the first signs of increased
algae
> growth.
>

k.

(thanks for taking time to reply)

After the blackout and massive water changes, I'll let the thing
stabilize a bit and see where the nitrates stand. Maybe I got a little
too agressive with my dosing, thinking I as some kind 'o plant king.
:)

steve

[Richard Sexton]

>Heh. No living organism can transmute elements - you're taking me far
>too seriously. Wheee...alchemy in the fishtank! My point was that the
>phosphate in fish food is used by the fish and then excreted. Of
>course, the intial source of phosphate into the tank is the food.

Right, and I only feed live whitw worms fed with pumpernikel 3X a week.
Does this mean I'm adding no, low or high phospahtes? Honest question,
I have no idea.

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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>Heh. No living organism can transmute elements - you're taking me far
>>too seriously. Wheee...alchemy in the fishtank! My point was that the
>>phosphate in fish food is used by the fish and then excreted. Of
>>course, the intial source of phosphate into the tank is the food.
>
>
> Right, and I only feed live whitw worms fed with pumpernikel 3X a week.
> Does this mean I'm adding no, low or high phospahtes? Honest question,
> I have no idea.
>
Sorry...I thought that was Steve's question. First, you DO have to take
the fish's metabolism into account. If the fish are actively growing,
they may absorb more phosphorus from their food. So the assumption that
what goes into the tank is exactly what passes through a growing fish
and fertilizes the tank is not perfect.

Hmm...My bottle of TetraMin says minimum phosphorus is 1.3% and my
ColorBits are minimum 1.5%. All Hagen NutraFin foods are formulated to
have only a minimum of 0.6% and a maximum of 0.9%. They talk about
their phosphorus philosophy here.
http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/nutrafinmax/lowphos.cfm

As for worms, tetra delica bloodworms have min 0.9% and I found an
article at
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/35746/ABSTRACT
showing freeze dried earthworms at 0.8%, waxworms at 1.2%, and mealworms
varying widely from 0.8% to 1.4% phosphorus depending on the strain.
Hikari reports 0.1% phosphorus max for their freeze dried bloodworms and
tubifex, but that does not appear to be compatible with living worms, so
I doubt their number.

So...you're probably feeding medium phosphate level food, around 0.8% to
1% if your worms are similar to others. As for amount, dunno. I
haven't seen you feed but I know how much a hungry killi can eat!

Is that the kind of info that you were after?

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Richard Sexton]

>As for worms, tetra delica bloodworms have min 0.9% and I found an
>article at
>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/35746/ABSTRACT
>showing freeze dried earthworms at 0.8%, waxworms at 1.2%, and mealworms
>varying widely from 0.8% to 1.4% phosphorus depending on the strain.
>Hikari reports 0.1% phosphorus max for their freeze dried bloodworms and
>tubifex, but that does not appear to be compatible with living worms, so
>I doubt their number.
>
>So...you're probably feeding medium phosphate level food, around 0.8% to
>1% if your worms are similar to others. As for amount, dunno. I
>haven't seen you feed but I know how much a hungry killi can eat!

The funny thing is the Ammano shrimp eat more white worms than the
killies do.

Yahbut, tubifex eat sewage and presumably there's tons of phosphates
in there. Wouldnt this all really depends on the amount of phosphate in
pumpernikle bread I feed the worms?

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[Elaine T]

Richard Sexton wrote:
>>As for worms, tetra delica bloodworms have min 0.9% and I found an
>>article at
>>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/35746/ABSTRACT
>>showing freeze dried earthworms at 0.8%, waxworms at 1.2%, and mealworms
>>varying widely from 0.8% to 1.4% phosphorus depending on the strain.
>>Hikari reports 0.1% phosphorus max for their freeze dried bloodworms and
>>tubifex, but that does not appear to be compatible with living worms, so
>>I doubt their number.
>>
>>So...you're probably feeding medium phosphate level food, around 0.8% to
>>1% if your worms are similar to others. As for amount, dunno. I
>>haven't seen you feed but I know how much a hungry killi can eat!
>
>
> The funny thing is the Ammano shrimp eat more white worms than the
> killies do.
>
> Yahbut, tubifex eat sewage and presumably there's tons of phosphates
> in there. Wouldnt this all really depends on the amount of phosphate in
> pumpernikle bread I feed the worms?
>
Not so much. The worms have to build DNA, RNA, cell membranes, and all
the other chemicals that contain phosphate from the bread. They will
retain the phosphate and other valuable minerals from their diet and
excrete the excess nitrogen and fiber. If you were phosphate starving
your worm cultures, they would not grow and reproduce well.

There may be some bread (relatively low in phosphate) in the worm's
digestive tract when you feed but the worm itself is the phosphate source.

--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[Pete]

>
> 55g tank, 48L 20H 12W
> pH 6.7 with C02 injection at 20ppm
> KH 3deg
> temp 79f
> Nitrates between 5 and 20, fluctuate with the amount of KNO3 I add.
> Potassium and Phosphorus added minimally per the dosing pages. I shoot
> for the optimun amount. There are a couple of plant spikes (trace
> elements) deep under the large plants.
>
> I've got 5 ottos in there, and just added a couple of large amano
> shrimp, but those critters aren't going to touch this fuzz stuff if it
> comes back strong like this past week.
> thanks for any hints, suggestions,
> steve
>

I've had an algae problem in my 90gal with a similar setup. It's not a
Phophate problem, you can try and limit phophates but you'll notice all
your plant growth slow down which means less competition for the algae
(been there, done that).
Algae loves crap.. yeah the stuff from the fish. NH4, urea etc. That heavy
fishload will be causing the same problems as mine are (big fishload also).

I'd recommend doing what you already did for plant cleanup (a dip in
chlorine, H2O2 etc) to get them free and a head start, but I would also do
a large water change with a massive gravel vacuum. When I pulled up all my
plants for a cleaning I did the water change at the same time and vacuumed
all the gravel hard and deep until it was clear. So no more crap rotting
and that about fixed it in one shot... it's in my books now as a bi-yearly
(?) thing as long as I keep my present fishload.

P.

BTW hope those spikes are trace only, no urea or such for an N source.

[js1]

On 2005-01-20, Pete > wrote:
>
> I've had an algae problem in my 90gal with a similar setup. It's not a
> Phophate problem, you can try and limit phophates but you'll notice all
> your plant growth slow down which means less competition for the algae
> (been there, done that).
> Algae loves crap.. yeah the stuff from the fish. NH4, urea etc. That heavy
> fishload will be causing the same problems as mine are (big fishload also).
>
> I'd recommend doing what you already did for plant cleanup (a dip in
> chlorine, H2O2 etc) to get them free and a head start, but I would also do
> a large water change with a massive gravel vacuum. When I pulled up all my
> plants for a cleaning I did the water change at the same time and vacuumed
> all the gravel hard and deep until it was clear. So no more crap rotting
> and that about fixed it in one shot... it's in my books now as a bi-yearly
> (?) thing as long as I keep my present fishload.
>

Well, now you're arguing a causality problem. I can't give a scientific
explaination, but I'd have to guess the phosphates are feeding the
algae. The algae is growing so fast that it's also taking up the
nitrates (produced by the decaying stuff) as well. My guess would
be by backing down on the phosphates, it slows the growth of the algae,
and gives the plants a chance to fight for the nitrates.

--
"I have to decide between two equally frightening options.
If I wanted to do that, I'd vote." --Duckman

[steve]

Pete wrote:


> I'd recommend doing what you already did for plant cleanup (a dip in
> chlorine, H2O2 etc) to get them free and a head start, but I would
also do
> a large water change with a massive gravel vacuum. When I pulled up
all my
> plants for a cleaning I did the water change at the same time and
vacuumed
> all the gravel hard and deep until it was clear. So no more crap
rotting
> and that about fixed it in one shot... it's in my books now as a
bi-yearly
> (?) thing as long as I keep my present fishload.
>
> P.
>
> BTW hope those spikes are trace only, no urea or such for an N
source.

Ya know, call me stupid, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.
After my first foray with these plant fert bombs, I had an immediate
explosion of green water. I won that battle. Now, shortly after
placing these bombs again, shazzam! algae infestation of epic
proportions. I did check the ingredients, and thought they were safe.
Mostly the trace elements, with very low nitrogen or phosphorous. I'll
look again and see if they actually identify urea or NO4. If I leave
them covered up and undisturbed I think (hope) the plants will eat
them.

I'm diligent with my gravel vacc'ing, but 34 fish, fed to nearly
popping, will produce a large amount of waste in between cleanings.
Now, I've put the two large angels and half (11) the tetras in another
tank so I think I can control the N better.
thanks for the advice,
steve

[Elaine T]

steve wrote:

> Ya know, call me stupid, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.
> After my first foray with these plant fert bombs, I had an immediate
> explosion of green water. I won that battle. Now, shortly after
> placing these bombs again, shazzam! algae infestation of epic
> proportions. I did check the ingredients, and thought they were safe.
> Mostly the trace elements, with very low nitrogen or phosphorous. I'll
> look again and see if they actually identify urea or NO4. If I leave
> them covered up and undisturbed I think (hope) the plants will eat
> them.

What brand are your fertilizer pellets, so I know what to avoid? I just
added Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Root Tabs plus Iron laterite pellets to
my tank a week or so ago and so far so good.

TIA!
--
__ Elaine T __
><__'> http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__><

[steve]

Elaine T wrote:

> What brand are your fertilizer pellets, so I know what to avoid? I
just
> added Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Root Tabs plus Iron laterite pellets
to
> my tank a week or so ago and so far so good.


They are Flourish Tabs:
http://www.petmeister.com/item801.htm

"Flourish Tabs are growth stimulating tablets for plant roots. They
contain essential trace elements, amino acids, and vitamins. They are
rich in iron, manganese, magnesium, calcium, potassium, inositol,
choline B12, biotin, and other factors that have been determined to be
beneficial to aquatic plant roots. They contain no phosphate or nitrate
that would promote algae proliferation."

I remember reading the ingredients before putting them in my tank
again, because I thought they were the probable cause of "Green water
2004". The ingredients look bland enough, no urea or xx percent
phosphate to worry about. But "twice bitten oh my butt hurts now", or
how ever that goes, I'm not putting them in again.

steve

[Pete]

js1 > wrote in :

> On 2005-01-20, Pete > wrote:
>>
>> I've had an algae problem in my 90gal with a similar setup. It's not
>> a Phophate problem, you can try and limit phophates but you'll notice
>> all your plant growth slow down which means less competition for the
>> algae (been there, done that).
>> Algae loves crap.. yeah the stuff from the fish. NH4, urea etc. That
>> heavy fishload will be causing the same problems as mine are (big
>> fishload also).
>>
>> I'd recommend doing what you already did for plant cleanup (a dip in
>> chlorine, H2O2 etc) to get them free and a head start, but I would
>> also do a large water change with a massive gravel vacuum. When I
>> pulled up all my plants for a cleaning I did the water change at the
>> same time and vacuumed all the gravel hard and deep until it was
>> clear. So no more crap rotting and that about fixed it in one shot...
>> it's in my books now as a bi-yearly (?) thing as long as I keep my
>> present fishload.
>>
>
> Well, now you're arguing a causality problem. I can't give a
> scientific explaination, but I'd have to guess the phosphates are
> feeding the algae. The algae is growing so fast that it's also taking
> up the nitrates (produced by the decaying stuff) as well. My guess
> would be by backing down on the phosphates, it slows the growth of the
> algae, and gives the plants a chance to fight for the nitrates.
>

Yeah it's not an easy discussion as unless you are doing scientific
tests you can talk forever on what is or isn't causing your problems...
and since there are so many variables in your basic tank it a big
discussion.

The main reason I think (imo) it's not excess phosphates is I've been
down the route of limiting P before. No P ferts, P absorbing packs in
the filter etc. I still have small amounts of algae now (in corners
etc.) but my higher than 'official' recommended levels of P don't cause
any problems (I fert with P regularly) so I don't believe it's P alone
that causes a problem. Lowering P will reduce growth rates but it does
it for everything, plants included, so it still doesn't allow your
plants to out compete the algae. I've also added large amounts of P to
my tank to get levels way above the recommened and no huge explosion,
but add some urea (like accidently uprooting a mostly N jobe fert stick
made with urea) and boom.

So instead I've suggested the gravel cleanup (fish reduction would help
also but if you want lots of fish.....) on the principle that algae
thrives due the NH4 and stuff from the fish. So excess NH4 and some P
gives you a big problem, but why hit the P that both algae and the
plants you want to grow use, but not hit the NH4. Keep the P that plants
(and algae) need to grow well but try and hit the NH4 that seems to the
real algae favorite but the plants can do without. On that note adding
more plants and quicker growing plants (I love floating water lettuce)
helps.

P.

BTW. this is for a CO2 inj high light tank, non CO2 regular lighting
fert requirements are quite different.

[Pete]

"steve" > wrote in news:1106252923.825651.298980
@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> They are Flourish Tabs:
> http://www.petmeister.com/item801.htm
>
> "Flourish Tabs are growth stimulating tablets for plant roots. They
> contain essential trace elements, amino acids, and vitamins. They are
> rich in iron, manganese, magnesium, calcium, potassium, inositol,
> choline B12, biotin, and other factors that have been determined to be
> beneficial to aquatic plant roots. They contain no phosphate or nitrate
> that would promote algae proliferation."
>
> I remember reading the ingredients before putting them in my tank
> again, because I thought they were the probable cause of "Green water
> 2004". The ingredients look bland enough, no urea or xx percent
> phosphate to worry about. But "twice bitten oh my butt hurts now", or
> how ever that goes, I'm not putting them in again.
>
> steve
>


Yeah, they certainly look safe by the description. Guess the rule of thumb
is don't touch it if everything is growing nicely already ;)

I actually don't fert the roots anymore as the plants don't seem to need
it. When pruning you chop the tops off and replant with zero roots and
they still do fine. All my ferts are done via the water which I can fine
tune with every other day doses with large weekend water changes to remove
any access, as opposed to a one time large dose into the ground (which you
may or may not accidently dig up when moving plants around).

P.

BTW NO3 is not a problem, I fert using 1/4tsp of KNO3 every other day, it's
the urea or NH4 form that will kill you.

[steve]

Pete wrote:
> "steve" > wrote in
news:1106252923.825651.298980
> @c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > They are Flourish Tabs:
> > http://www.petmeister.com/item801.htm


> Yeah, they certainly look safe by the description. Guess the rule of
thumb
> is don't touch it if everything is growing nicely already ;)
>
> I actually don't fert the roots anymore as the plants don't seem to
need
> it. When pruning you chop the tops off and replant with zero roots
and
> they still do fine. All my ferts are done via the water which I can
fine
> tune with every other day doses with large weekend water changes to
remove
> any access, as opposed to a one time large dose into the ground
(which you
> may or may not accidently dig up when moving plants around).
>

My real guilt comes from lazyness in this case. I had the things
laying around and figgered by tossing them in I wouldn't have to dose
trace elements for a month or two. I picked up all the stuff I need
from G. Watson, just got caught taking a short cut. I'm going to leave
them in there and not disturb the substrate for a while and see how it
goes. If I do need to dig, I'm going to hover with the hoover while I
do it to remove any excess that get's released.

steve "gotta green thumb with dahlias, but still getting my feet wet
with aqua botanics" bloom